SkyStreamer: tapering off Cipralex / escitalopram safely

[ChessieCat]

Another member has just posted this:

 

  

On 6/18/2020 at 9:22 PM, ten0275 said:

Withdrawal is one of those situations in life where we really need to master the "marathon mind."

 

 

1 hour ago, ten0275 said:

@Mimi79, hi.

 

I'm glad that quote means something to you and is giving you some inspiration. If you're a marathon runner, you know viscerally what I am talking about. Staying present within each mile, mindful of the pace, the finish line being accepted as the goal attained on the installment plan of each mile's unique, often daunting challenges. It truly does apply to the withdrawal process.

 

There really is no getting rid of the thoughts. Honestly. You've probably even noticed that when you try to push them out, they tend to stick around or even intensify. Distraction can sometimes help, but for me that wasn't often successful. The best coping mechanism I had was to remind myself that because the thoughts troubled me, it meant that they were not a part of my psychological make-up. They were a foreign presence in my otherwise peaceful and positive mind. I'd imagine my mind a dark sky, and the thoughts were just fireworks breaking against the backdrop. Fireworks don't burn the sky, they just flash and thunder and move on. The thoughts don't damage your mind, they likewise flash and thunder and move on. Reading your signature, I see you are on both the higher dose of Mirtazapine and the Ativan. That's where I started too - so very interesting you are having the intrusive thoughts.

 

They did disappear. For me, it was very much a windows and wave kind of deal. And when things first started lightening up, I'd notice that maybe 20 or 30 minutes had gone by without a thought that troubled me. This expanded out to weeks, months, and now years as I haven't had an intrusive thought in many years.

 

Have much hope, Mimi! It seems a daunting process when it is all lying ahead of you. But that's when the marathon mind is needed most, right? Because it keeps you putting one foot in front of the other and shows you how much you can surpass even your own ideas and definitions of strength.

 

Hang in there,

Dave

 

[ChessieCat]

6 minutes ago, SkyStreamer said:

I am really really really struggling with a lot of negative, painful emotions right now: despair, anger, discouragement, depression, extreme fear and worry, and overall deadness. I am so tired of trying over and over and over again, only to hit another wall and experience the same pain and suffering all over again. 

 

Battle weariness.  I'm experiencing this myself with a back injury.  It gets to you after a while.

 

6 minutes ago, SkyStreamer said:

My wife says she's open to working once or twice a week to help out. So, there is some hope here. But, my wife is also somewhat emotionally abusive when she brings in more money. Last time this happened, a few years ago, she made a point of hoarding the money from me, and keeping me out of family spending decisions. When I told her I was hurt and resented this, she simply said 'now you know how it feels not to be the bread winner and have no control over the money.' So, this option causes me a lot of fear and anxiety.

 

This is separate issue.  Perhaps counselling might help, for the two of you together.

[SkyStreamer]

I was watching an episode of the History Channel's show 'Alone,' and the feature quote was this one from Freud:

 

"One day, in retrospect, the years of struggle will strike you as the most beautiful."

 

I wish I could believe this, and somehow find some appreciation in the ongoing struggle of withdrawal. It would be sad if the appreciation, and recognition of beauty, only came in retrospect.

 

If Freud's quote is true, then those of us who are tapering and experiencing withdrawal are perhaps living the most beautiful lives right now!  (An attempt at some light/dark humour.)

[Cocopuffz17]

12 minutes ago, SkyStreamer said:

I was watching an episode of the History Channel's show 'Alone,' and the feature quote was this one from Freud:

 

"One day, in retrospect, the years of struggle will strike you as the most beautiful."

 

I wish I could believe this, and somehow find some appreciation in the ongoing struggle of withdrawal. It would be sad if the appreciation, and recognition of beauty, only came in retrospect.

 

If Freud's quote is true, then those of us who are tapering and experiencing withdrawal are perhaps living the most beautiful lives right now!  (An attempt at some light/dark humour.)

 

That quote hit home! It is so true!!! You will get there. Never forget that and you will not only survive, but you will thrive!!!! 

[SkyStreamer]

I'm now down to 5.9mg. This is a huge milestone for me - to be entering the 5mg range.

 

It's been one hell of a battle, but a lot of self-discovery. 

 

Slow and steady. 

[ChessieCat]

Very exciting.  Well done.  Congratulations.

[SkyStreamer]

On 11/2/2020 at 12:07 AM, ChessieCat said:

Very exciting.  Well done.  Congratulations.

 

Thanks @ChessieCat !

[Carmie]

Hi SkyStreamer, 

 

Looks like you’ve been doing well with your tapering over the last year. That’s great news. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[SkyStreamer]

Hi @Carmie!

 

I haven't been on this site for a while. 

Thanks for your kind note! 

 

I sometimes really feel even small reductions, so I've taken things very slow. But, every little reduction brings me closer to my goal of being free of psychiatric medications. 

 

I am now down to 5.4mg - which I'm really proud of. 

 

There have been some very difficult times this year during some drops. These have usually been related to stress, anxiety, loneliness, fear, shame - all the usual suspects. But, fortunately, they all had an expiry date and, therefore, were manageable.

 

This tapering journey takes a lot of courage and grit. We should all be very proud of ourselves for just being on this path. 

 

Hope you're doing well!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SkyStreamer]

I was always able to fly without much fear or anxiety. However, during this last year of my taper, I've developed an extreme fear of flying, and of heights in general.

 

Even the thought of flying in an airplane almost sends me into a complete panic. 

 

Has this happened to anyone before?

 

If so, did your fear subside over time or did you resolve it in some other way?

[ChessieCat]

I think this is common amongst SA members.  Not flying but for various other activities.  These days I have to consciously use coping techniques to be able to do/get through things that before only gave me minimal problems, if any.

[SkyStreamer]

On 3/31/2021 at 11:14 PM, ChessieCat said:

I think this is common amongst SA members.  Not flying but for various other activities.  These days I have to consciously use coping techniques to be able to do/get through things that before only gave me minimal problems, if any.

Thanks for your reply, @ChessieCat!

 

My biggest issue with flying is that my nervous system wants to fully shut down as a result of feeling completely out of control. I feel like I'm either going crazy or am about to faint. Either way, it is extremely unpleasant.

I recently read a book by a pilot, who said that fearful fliers should try and change their thinking from 'What if I experience panic' TO 'I'm going to fly on this darn plane even if I experience panic.' I found this very insightful. I felt a surge of courage when I affirmed the second statement. It's just that my mind wants to constantly run and cling to the first statement, especially when on a plane. 

 

What techniques have you found to be very helpful for coping through very challenging situations and feelings?

[Carmie]

On 2/24/2021 at 1:22 PM, SkyStreamer said:

Hi @Carmie!

 

I haven't been on this site for a while. 

Thanks for your kind note! 

 

I sometimes really feel even small reductions, so I've taken things very slow. But, every little reduction brings me closer to my goal of being free of psychiatric medications. 

 

I am now down to 5.4mg - which I'm really proud of. 

 

There have been some very difficult times this year during some drops. These have usually been related to stress, anxiety, loneliness, fear, shame - all the usual suspects. But, fortunately, they all had an expiry date and, therefore, were manageable.

 

This tapering journey takes a lot of courage and grit. We should all be very proud of ourselves for just being on this path. 

 

Hope you're doing well!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi SkyStreamer, 

 

I just saw this note you wrote to me ages ago. How are you now? I haven’t really been on this site hardly either in the last two years. I’ve been dealing with so much and it just made me sad reading about all of the sad things that people are going through on here. 
 

I see that you’re down to 4.7mg. You’re doing great! I’m down to 4.40mg, I’ll be tapering again soon. I’ve been holding for about three months after each taper because I can’t seem to taper any quicker at the moment. 
 

You’re right about this journey taking courage and grit. One day at a time does it. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[Shoehorn]

Checking in with you @SkyStreamerand @Carmie as the 3 of us seem to be on similar tapering schedules! Hope you are both doing well.

[SkyStreamer]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:05 PM, Shoehorn said:

Checking in with you @SkyStreamerand @Carmie as the 3 of us seem to be on similar tapering schedules! Hope you are both doing well.

 Hi @shoehorn!

Thanks for the note.

You're right - we do seem to be on a similar tapering journey of sorts.

I've been really struggling the last few weeks. My biggest challenges have been huge increases in both anxiety and anger. I've had an enormous surge in feelings of anger, hatred and rage, and I'm having a hard time not letting myself explode verbally on others who antagonize me. 
 

I'm very confused as to why I've been struggling in these ways. Is it withdrawal? Is it my current difficult life circumstances? Is it my former emotional challenges resurfacing again now that I'm at a lower dose? Is it my most recent drops a few months ago (I did a number of successive ones)? Is it my older age and hormonal changes?

 

Most of me wants to say it's due to withdrawal, as this makes me feel less guilty, condemned and ashamed. But, if I'm honest, I really don't know the cause(s) of my recent battles with rage and anxiety. I'm completely in the dark. This makes me feel a bit hopeless. I feel like I need to know the root of these issues in order to have a strategic response and proactive plan. 

 

I've had a few stressful things happen in the last few weeks: my psychologist closed her practice (I had been seeing her on a regular basis); my plans for a vacation collapsed unexpectedly; I got injured while biking; and I've gotten into a few heated verbal altercations with people in front of others. I'm sure all these things also contribute to how I'm feeling.

 

Today, after all of these struggles, I'm feeling depressed, lonely, demoralized and hopeless. I don't want to quit. I just don't have much fuel left in the tank currently. 

Sorry to unload all this on you in response to your friendly note. I guess this is what this partly what this forum is for.

Either way, it was nice to see a message from someone asking how I'm doing. These little things really help in a big way. 

How are you doing lately?

CC: @Carmie



 

[Shoehorn]

Hang in there @SkyStreamer! It sounds like you are dealing with a lot in your life right now and it is very overwhelming. What things are within your control to change or improve, and which are not and you can give yourself permission to let go of, even if that is very difficult? And the things that are within your control, which is the most important to you to focus on first?

 

When I'm a dip or wave I tend to micromanage my symptoms and try to find an answer for everything. It adds to the anxiety and does not help the overall journey, I find. Anxiety is very efficient at creating new problems for the brain to solve and amplifying existing ones.

 

I have to remind myself to stick to the plan, keep doing the positive things that help (eating well, regular exercise, taking my daily magnesium and fish oil) and trust that things will even out again soon. I was in that headspace yesterday and I caught myself many times overthinking everything about my taper and trying to micromanage each problem. I did my best to let it all go and woke up today feeling much better.

 

You mentioned hormonal changes. Are you going into menopause? I have been on that path for several years myself and the irrational anger is a very common phase. My depression started "out of the blue" a few years into pre-menopause, I had never been depressed or had mental illness issues in my entire life until then. The menopause journey is life changing in so many different ways.

[SkyStreamer]

Has anyone in this group ever tried Ivermectin before? If so, did you experience any negative side effects, or a triggering of withdrawal symptoms at all, such as fear or anxiety?

 

I couldn't really find much on this topic in our group. But, maybe someone has some experience with this, or someone tapering who tried ivermectin? 

 

[Shoehorn]

On 8/22/2021 at 2:58 PM, SkyStreamer said:

Has anyone in this group ever tried Ivermectin before? If so, did you experience any negative side effects, or a triggering of withdrawal symptoms at all, such as fear or anxiety?

 

I couldn't really find much on this topic in our group. But, maybe someone has some experience with this, or someone tapering who tried ivermectin?

 

If you have intestinal parasites (Ivermectin is a deworming medication) then getting rid of them is probably more critical to your health than your tapering?

[SkyStreamer]

I'm now at 3.8mg. It's been six years to come down to this dose from 15mg. But, slow and steady seems to be the best way for me. 

I haven't been on here for a while. 

I've had a ton of life stressors lately: moved; new community; new baby; and dealing with a lot of difficult people. I've held for a number of weeks at times, which seems to help. 

I'm thinking I'm probably another 1.5-2 years until I'm off completely. 

My biggest struggles are still the same: a lot of anxiety, fear, extreme emotional sensitivity (especially to sarcastic and mean people), difficult concentrating, and hopelessness. 

My biggest positives: feeling a little more like myself (before the meds); very insightful dreams about my emotional states; more compassion for others (especially those who are suffering).

[Ariel]

Hi @SkyStreamer

Good to read your update. Wow, you are a slow-taper champion! Truly a bastion of patience and fortitude. RESPECT. 

 

1 hour ago, SkyStreamer said:

extreme emotional sensitivity (especially to sarcastic and mean people)

 

I can really relate to this. Withdrawal has made me practically allergic to manifestations of insincerity and unkindness. It can be pretty inconvenient, as such behavior is all too frequently encountered, but it's also kind of interesting. Like I've lost all my socialized conditioning/tolerance for lying and meanness, as if withdrawal has scrubbed me raw and returned me to some sort of innocence. 

 

1 hour ago, SkyStreamer said:

I've had a ton of life stressors lately: moved; new community; new baby; and dealing with a lot of difficult people.

 

Good job navigating these significant life stressors! That's very impressive, these can present challenges to even the most stable, non-withdrawal people. Well done.

 

Best of luck to you with your upcoming hold, and thank you for being an inspiration.

A. 

 

[Ariel]

And CONGRATULATIONS on your new baby!! Blessings <3

[SkyStreamer]

On 4/26/2022 at 11:15 AM, Ariel said:

And CONGRATULATIONS on your new baby!! Blessings <3

 Thank you @Ariel for your kind words and congrats! Much appreciated.

[SkyStreamer]

It's been about 6 months since I've been on here. Then, I was on 3.8mg. I'm now on 2.9mg. Not much of a drop, but I have to go slower as I decrease this low. Plus, I'm still going through a ton of life stressors. New baby arrived; another move; difficult marriage to someone who doesn't like to talk about or confront emotions; and possible new job on the horizon. 

I must be in a wave because I watched a movie trailer tonight that featured people climbing at extreme heights with views looking down and I almost passed out from fright. I had to look away and felt my blood pressure drop. I have always been a bit scared of heights, but I tend to be absolutely terrified of them during waves. Also, I am always on edge. It's a constant feeling like something life-threatening is about to happen. Like I'm going to have to defend my life physically from some person that just pops out of nowhere. To add to this, I have a lot of bubbling anger. I constantly feel angry about everything. My biggest source of anger seems to be about how this life involves so many mishaps, pain, suffering, and mistakes. Deep down, a big part of me hates this life. I was emotionally and physically abused as a child, so I'm sure this is likely at the root of these feelings. I just have such resentment for all the very intense and frequent vicissitudes of life. I'm constantly saying to myself, 'how can anyone actually get through life with their mental and emotional health in check. It's pretty much impossible. We've all been handed an impossible task - just like Sisyphus. And, no one even asked me if I wanted to be born into this hell.' I know it's dark, but this is the way I often feel. I'm going to stick it out til the end, but I don't enjoy it whatsoever (minus my kids and my fav sport, I guess).

This rant is another indication that I'm in a big wave.  

Funny, no matter how often I've been in a wave, my whole being seems to want to resist accepting this reality. So strange, even with all the big red flags. 

[SkyStreamer]

I'm in a really dark, depressing and suffocating wave. So much anxiety, feelings of hopelessness, no sign of light. It is just a matter of trying to hold on tight until the storm passes. No matter how many times I experience a strong wave, I always seem to forget just how bad they can be. They are so utterly emotionally painful and draining. 

 

[SkyStreamer]

My marriage is so toxic. I believe my wife and I try, but neither of us get get a handle on our own personal and marriage relational dysfunction. 

We tried going out this week for a lunch date. It was a complete disasters. Argument and criticism after criticism. Then we went out together today and tried for a full day. Again, disastrous. I'm so hurt by all her comments and insults. All I feel right now is a ton of anger, but I know deep down that underneath that there is a ton of hurt. I just can't seem to access. I feel like something in me needs a very deep and long cry (like a wailing), but I just don't know how to do that, and I don't seem to be able to do that (whether it is withdrawal or whatever). For me, marriage and life in general is an utter agony of pain and suffering. It all seems so meaningless. I don't know how I am going to get through tomorrow. I feel so depressed and without hope. 

 

We've done counselling in the past and it never helped all that much. My wife says she hates therapists and will only speak to a priest. I suspect this is because these therapists encourage her to become aware of and face her difficult emotions. But, she'll never admit that.

 

[SkyStreamer]

Felt extremely depressed this morning. No motivation whatsoever. Hopeless. Everything seemed meaningless. I wanted to stay in bed all day. Finally, got up at around 10:30am. Did low intensity weight workout. Went home and got very tired. Napped for 1 hr. 

 

Afternoon. Did 30 minute meditation. Felt extremely depressed doing it. Many negative thoughts about my situation being hopeless and meditation will never help. Then went for a walk with my three kids. Took them out for ice-cream. Probably the highlight of my day - seeing them happy. Nice moment. 

Evening. Back home. Wife comes home. We are not on good terms and have withdrawn from each other. A lot of hurt from big argument the night before. Felt extremely depressed during our 'talk-time'. And, even more depressed after. My CNS seems to see her as one of its biggest threats. Just knowing she is home fills me with such anxiety, dread and hopelessness. It's been a dysfunctional and toxic marriage from the beginning. Nothing serious like alcoholism, drugs, or abuse. Just always a low-grade dislike, incompatibility, distrust and disrespect. 

[SkyStreamer]

I just dropped a crumb in my dose today, which still leaves me at 2.4 mg. My tapering journey is an extremely slow one, but it is the only way that I could have done it without destroying important relationships and my family. I sometimes feel guilty that I didn't taper faster. But, I get a hunch that I made the best decision. I am now into my seventh year of tapering. 
 

[Carmie]

Hi @SkyStreamer, you’re still going like me too. Yes, slow and steady does it. I’m going extremely slow too because if I go any quicker the waves get really bad. 
 

Hope you find some joy in your day💛

[SkyStreamer]

Hi @Carmie, 

Thanks so much for your response! I haven't had a response on this site for a long while. Maybe it's because I don't post consistently. 

I also go slow because my waves become very overwhelming. Additionally, I have a ton of life stressors (several young children; full-time work; stressful marriage, etc.). 

I'm in a wave right now that is pretty bad. A ton of obsessive thoughts, all of which are very negative: that I'm inherently bad; that I have been a failure as a husband and father; that I have made too many mistakes in life; that my mistakes have prevented me from ever being able achieve spiritual peace and fulfillment in life; that there is way more bad in me than good.

 

I am trying to use all the coping skills I've acquired in the past 10 years (deep breathing, cold exposure, meditation, mindfulness, exercise, healthy eating, therapy, etc.), but they don't seem to be helping too much at the moment At the end of each day, I am discouraged and lacking in hope. The only thing I am proud of is that I made it through another day. 

This wave is much stronger than others I've had in the last few years. It is also a bit strange, because just before it, I had a very bizarre window. It was kind of like a spiritual epiphany. I felt the presence of God very strongly. I felt like this spirit loved me. And, I saw my dysfunction in a very clear light (scary!). All this brought me to tears many times within a 2-3 week period. It also seems to have ignited a deeper meditation and prayer life for me currently. This is all the more strange because I had actually lost my faith these last 4-5 years. So, it kind of shocked me and made me question all the false mental distortions and thoughts I've had during all my long waves.

I've felt some internal pressure to taper faster lately (i.e., closer to 10% per month). But, a small voice inside me seems to say to continue with my slow pace til the end. I'm so close to the end, and so it would be a shame to lose all my progress at the end due to impatience. 

By the way, can I ask if you are doing a solid or liquid pill taper? If you're doing a solid taper, can you confirm the scale you're using? I've been doing a solid pill taper all along. I haven't felt comfortable enough to try a liquid one. 





 

 

 

 

[Carmie]

Sorry to hear you’re in a wave @SkyStreamer, obsessive thoughts are quite common in withdrawals, all our emotions are heightened. When waves are really severe all one can do is find distractions to get through the day. I’ve got lots of those. 
 

Yes, keep going slowly as you are, you’re doing great. We can’t escape waves in this journey of withdrawals. It’s windows, waves, windows, waves. I’m in a window at the moment and I tapered again two days ago by a tiny 1.5%, that’s all my body can seem to handle. 
 

I’m actually using liquid, I’ve never used a scale. 
 

If you want a little more encouragement on this site, pop over to different one’s threads and have a chat. Everyone on here understands what it’s like to go through withdrawals. You can have a nice interchange of encouragement. 
 

Hope you find a little something in your life that brings a smile to your face today💛

[Mezzer]

Hi @SkyStreamer I read your above post of the negative thoughts. I can relate to exactly how you feel. In the AM upon waking as I try and think of positive things in my past and it seems impossible to come up with anything. There are many positives in my past but it seems I’m blocked from them. I can also relate with your feeling closer to God at times when in a window. When a wave comes the connection seems to be ripped away. This must be withdrawals 

[LostInCanada]

@SkyStreamer hey fellow Canadian. You seem pretty stuck in using a scale, me too lol. I bought a really sweet one.

https://cambridgeenviro.com/products/a-d-ej-54d2-dual-range-22g-x-0-0002g-54g-x-0-001g-compact-balance

It is pricey but my hubby talked to the sales guy and he was amazing and gave us a good deal...like 15% off.  I might change to self made liquid near the end but atm I am cutting pills. Amazed at your patient taper...good for you. 👍

[SkyStreamer]

@LostInCanada - that looks like an amazing scale. Tempting, but it's a bit to expensive for me now. I may go to liquid to one I get below 1mg. 

 

[LostInCanada]

@SkyStreamer I think I will still need to do liquid. My system is pretty sensitive and the scale still has limits. Who knew we would become chemists?

[SkyStreamer]

On 6/24/2023 at 8:46 AM, Mezzer said:

Hi @SkyStreamer I read your above post of the negative thoughts. I can relate to exactly how you feel. In the AM upon waking as I try and think of positive things in my past and it seems impossible to come up with anything. There are many positives in my past but it seems I’m blocked from them. I can also relate with your feeling closer to God at times when in a window. When a wave comes the connection seems to be ripped away. This must be withdrawals 

Hi @mezzer - thanks for your comments and feedback. 

Recently, I went through a very big 'grace period.' I seem to have gone through a huge window that revealed to me my many failures and shortcomings over the years since I've been medicated, especially in relation to my family. It completely floored me, but gave me true humility (i.e., seeing myself as I truly am, in all my brokenness). I'm not sure how much my drop in pills contributed to this, but it has been a big sign of progress, though extremely painful and agonizing on a personal emotional level. I believe that grace was probably the biggest factor in leading to this experience.  I have since admitted my many failures to both my wife and my kids and have deeply asked for their forgiveness. I am now trying to dedicate myself fully to a life of love and service to my family. 

I'm still plugging away with my taper. Down to 1.8mg. I am so eager to move more quickly. Looking at my signature, I'm shocked at how slow my taper has taken. Looking back, I feel I should have been off my ADs at least three years ago. But, here I am, and I cannot get the past back. I've been dropping now between 8%-10% consistently every month. I'm going to try to keep going down by this amount each month.

[LostInCanada]

@SkyStreamer you have worked hard to get here. Keep listening to your body to set the pace of your taper. I know you want off but you don't want to crash. Hold longer when withdrawal symptoms are increasing. Please be kind to yourself. These drugs have numbed us in so many ways and by extension have affected our relationships. We have to forgive ourselves and move forward. You are doing so well. 👍