Daisygirlsk: I'm at a total loss and desperate

[Daisygirlsk]

Hi everyone

I really desperately need advice. I started 20mg of citalopram in April 2011 for situational depression. I didn't notice side effects except I completely lost the ability to cry for years. I had no idea it was drug related. I did gain some weight but other than that thought I was fine.

 

In April of this year 2018 I decided I wanted to be off drugs. I talked to my gp and he recommended a taper that I followed. It only took about one month.

 

I have felt like I've been in mental hell ever since. It wasn't until today that I even knew it could be withdrawal and it is thanks to this site. I have had extreme obsessions, panic attacks, bouts of rage, uncontrollable crying, suicidal ideation and what feels like a complete change in personality.

 

I saw a psychiatrist in November 2018 because I thought I needed one. She heard my symptoms, diagnosed me with OCD, major depression and generalized anxiety disorder. She re prescribed 20mg citalopram.

 

Almost immediately after reinstatement I had such intense heart palpitations I almost called 911, excessive sweating and severe insomnia. After 4 days I stopped the drugs.

 

I feel trapped in a mental prison with no escape. I have no idea if I should continue drugs or suffer this withdrawal. I need help I can barely function.

[Shep]

Hi, Daisy.

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

It sounds like your reinstatement amount was too high. Even though it was the same amount that you were on previously, after a rapid one-month taper, your central nervous system was sensitized by withdrawal. So going back on a full dose 7 months later, the dose was likely too strong.  For that reason, we recommend reinstating at a much lower dose. For more, please see:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

And here are some more links to get you started:

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

Making a citalopram solution yourself

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome? 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery video (4 minutes)

 

Are you taking any supplements? If so, please list them in your signature. 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

I'm not very familiar with citalopram, so I'm going to ask the moderators who are to stop by and recommend a reinstatement dose. 

 

In the meantime, please read over the above links. And the below link will help you find some non-drug ways of coping.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Please continue to use this thread to document your taper and to ask plenty of questions. 

[Daisygirlsk]

Great thank you for your reply. I would love to hear from someone familiar with citalopram to recommend a reinstatement dose. Thanks again.

[Gridley]

As Shep wrote, during the 7 months you were off the drug you brain adapted to not having the drug.  The 20mg that the doctor prescribed ws too much for your brain to handle.  That, coupled with the rapid taper, has caused the withdrawal symptoms you are experiencing.

 

At 7 months, you are outside the time period (within 3 months) when reinstatement most dependably works.  So it really is unknown whether it will help.  

 

If you decide you want to try, I suggest reinstating 0.5mg as a tester dose to see how you respond. It doesn't sound like much, but these drugs are strong and your system is destabilized.   If you have a bad reaction like before stop immediately.   Remember that it takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Please read the links Shep provided before making a decision.  The links on tips for tapering off Celexa and how to make a liquid from citalopram will tell you how to make a small dose.

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Daisy.

 

I agree with Shep and Gridley. Do you have any citalopram left? You might make a liquid with it and take maybe 0.5mg to start. You'll need a small oral syringe to measure 0.5mg in milliliters.

 

Another possibility is to substitute 0.5mg Prozac. Both Celexa and Prozac come in prescription liquids.

[Carmie]

Hi Daisygirlsk, 

 

Welcome to SA from me too. I’m so sorry you are struggling so much, you will find great support on this site because everyone on here is struggling with withdrawals. It isn’t an easy journey but we all recover eventually.

 

I’ve been put on and off all sorts of meds in the past too. Doctors kept changing things and cold turkeying me off all kinds of things, I don’t even remember the names. They really don’t have any idea what they’re doing. They give these meds out like lollies, but have no idea about withdrawals, most of them don’t even believe in withdrawals.

 

That being said, we all do eventually recover, it’s just a slow process. 

 

Do you have any good distractions to help you help you get through each day? I do all sorts of things, even when I’m totally anhedonic or anxious. I like arts n crafts , photography, music, nature, DVDs n Netflix, and the list goes on. It doesn’t get rid of withdrawals, but it helps me get through the days when withdrawals are bad. 

 

Some days I could only live a minute at a time as withdrawals were so bad, but yet again I got through another day. 

 

Wishing you all all the best in your recovery journey 💚

 

 

 

 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

Thanks everyone for your replies it gives me some peace and hope. I told people j was having 'pseudoseizures' this summer because that's the only way I could describe the convulsions. I understand now that it was akisthisia. My boyfriend had to hold me down from convulsing. I feel like I'm coming off heroin

 

[Altostrata]

39 minutes ago, LisaLou said:

Could this be an option for me with the Prozac instead of Zoloft?

 

Please continue discussion in your Into topic:

 

[Daisygirlsk]

I have heard a lot of good things about inositol for major anxiety and OCD. Is this not recommended during withdrawal?

[ChessieCat]

inositol

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

[Daisygirlsk]

I reinstated in November after 6 months cold Turkey because I didn't know anything about withdrawal and it was what my psychiatrist prescribed. I only took it for 4 days because I had a very adverse reaction. Would my withdrawal then become acute again? I feel awful.

[ChessieCat]

Please read Post #1 of this topic.  It mentions that the nervous system can become sensitised and that reinstating too high a dose can cause issues.  After being off the drug for 6 months we would have suggested a tiny reinstatement dose, possibly a dose as low as 1mg to begin with, because it is better to start with a small amount and increase if needed that to risk taking too much.

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

[AlanC]

Hello Daisygirlsk,

 

Thank you for the message on my thread, and I'm very sorry to hear you're having a bad time with the withdrawal. Do you feel able to post here about what's been happening?

 

Even if things are bad enough that you're not able to reinstate at a small dose of the citalopram, just being able to talk about it so you can get some reassurance that you're not alone might help take away that awful feeling that a really bad wave is never going to end.

[Daisygirlsk]

13 minutes ago, AlanC said:

Hello Daisygirlsk,

 

Thank you for the message on my thread, and I'm very sorry to hear you're having a bad time with the withdrawal. Do you feel able to post here about what's been happening?

 

Even if things are bad enough that you're not able to reinstate at a small dose of the citalopram, just being able to talk about it so you can get some reassurance that you're not alone might help take away that awful feeling that a really bad wave is never going to end.

Hi. So I too fast tapered Citalopram in April of 2018 not knowing any better and following my doctor's advice. I was thrown into withdrawal about two weeks later and I had no idea what was going on with me but I was having tons and tons of physical and mental symptoms. I became violently angry I was sobbing uncontrollably having regular panic attacks high anxiety throughout the day I was suicidal I had migraines severe sensitivity to light I wear sunglasses indoors still I am really extra sensitive to sound lots of body pain and nerve pain throughout different parts of my body. I am currently in a really bad wave I have not slept for 3 days. I am constantly anxious and on the verge of panic I am crying all of the time I have so much body pain and my muscles literally are tense 24/7. I am on the verge of losing my relationship and my job I don't really feel like I can continue to go on the way I have been I am looking at moving back in with my mom because I really can't even keep a job at this point. For the first six months I had continuous symptoms and then I had the windows and waves pattern for 5 months and then my symptoms returned with a Vengeance in March of this year and they are continuous again I only get maybe an hour window every few days. I noticed that you deal with a lot of dizziness I did not deal with that really at all except for a wave I was in about 3 weeks ago I had really intense dizziness it was hard to walk and it was hard to even stand still because I felt like I was on an angle. This whole experience is the worst thing that I've ever went through and I also kind of feel like my situation is getting worse instead of better at least a few months ago I was getting 3 and 4 day windows and now I don't get any full day windows I am totally at a loss and feel pretty desperate at this point. Are you okay?

[Daisygirlsk]

Hi,

I am doing worse than ever and don't know what to do next.  Can someone help me?

[ChessieCat]

We need some more information please.

 

How is your sleep?

 

What are you current symptoms?  How have they changed?

 

What improvements have you noticed, if any?

 

Do your symptoms seem to have a cycle, ie worse at particular times of the month?  Might be related to menstrual cycle (if applicable).  If you are older are you heading into/going through menopause?

 

Have you taken any drugs/supplements since you stopped citalopram November 2018?

 

If yes, what and when, duration?

 

Do you drink alcohol, have you been sick, have you taken antibiotics?  Do you eat a lot of foods containing MSG/flavour enhancers (Chinese food, savoury snacks, frozen/canned foods/meals, chicken salt)?  MSG et al are neurotoxins.

 

Have you had any stressors, eg loss of family/friend/pet, relationship breakdown, moved house, changed jobs?

 

How has the covid situation affected you?  Change in job situation, financial issues, isolated/cooped up with family.

[Daisygirlsk]

Hello and thank you for a fast response.

 

From November 18 to April 19 I was functioning quite well.  I felt like I was on the road to recovery.

 

Then in April my intrusive thoughts came back with a vengeance.  As well as a host of other emotional and physical symptoms.  I started seeing images in my head of violence and they have not left my head since April 2019.  Despite this I was still able to work and function OK.  Then in Summer 2019 I started really struggling to sleep.  I would go days without sleep.  This led me to lose my job.  I left my relationship and moved back home with my mom.

 

From Summer 2019 until now I had had many symptoms subside except these horrible intrusive thoughts.  They weren't really accompanied by fear though, they just looped through my head from morning until night.

 

A week ago, I felt desperate so i reinstated 0.5 mg of citalopram.  I took it for 2 days.  I did notice an increase in physical anxiety, I wasn't sleeping as well and I had a really dry mouth.  I did feel happier though, even my mom noticed.  

 

I suddenly became so terrified of being on citalopram again that I quit that microdose after only 2 days.

 

Since quitting, my symptoms are way way worse.  I am on edge all day.  Raging headache.  Intrusive thoughts so severe I literally can't focus on anything else.  I can barely sleep.  I need an antihistamine to sleep.  My whole body is severely tense, especially my upper arms.  Is this acute withdrawal again since quitting an only 2 day microdose of 0.5mg citalopram?  I feel completely out of my mind.  Should I have held that reinstatement longer?  I don't know what is happening but I am losing my function quickly.

 

I don't take any supplements except magnesium glycinate 200 mg.  I also take an antihistamine when I can't sleep.  

 

My symptoms are extreme all day.  I did not notice these extreme symptoms until i stopped the microdose last week.

 

I was drinking throughout withdrawal which I know is bad, but I have not touched alcohol in two weeks.  I don't drink caffeine and I eat pretty healthy since I have type 1 diabetes and celiac disease.  I just need a little relief.

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

25 minutes ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I was drinking throughout withdrawal which I know is bad, but I have not touched alcohol in two weeks.

 

How much alcohol were you consuming?  How often?

[ChessieCat]

  

On 7/6/2020 at 5:50 AM, brassmonkey said:

 Drinking alcohol is a major factor in excellent recoveries getting derailed.  We just had a case of a member who has been drug free for several years with an excellent recovery underway.  They had a couple of drinks over the weekend and tripped off their symptoms all over again. 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

3 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

How much alcohol were you consuming?  How often?

I was drinking once a week.  I haven't had a drink since my symptoms exploded though and I hadn't a couple days prior either.  It seems my symptoms are so much worse since stopping that microdose.  What should I do?  Should i take 0.5mg again?  

[ChessieCat]

10 minutes ago, Daisygirlsk said:

It seems my symptoms are so much worse since stopping that microdose.  What should I do?  Should i take 0.5mg again? 

 

I'm very pleased to see that you reinstated a very tiny dose.  However you only tried it for 2 days (please add this information to your drug signature Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature). 

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

We can't make the decision for you about whether to reinstate or not.  You did state that you and your mother noticed a difference.

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

2 minutes ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I was drinking once a week. 

 

You didn't say how much.

 

Alcohol is a CNS depressant.  You've been drinking alcohol with an already sensitised nervous symptom.  I suggest that you continue not to drink alcohol.

 

From:  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26466222/

 

 

Quote

 

Abstract

Introduction: alcohol is a psychotropic depressant of the central nervous system (CNS) that promotes simultaneous changes in several neuronal pathways, exerting a profound neurological impact that leads to various behavioral and biological alterations.

Objectives: to describe the effects of alcohol on the CNS, identifying the signaling pathways that are modified and the biological effects resulting from its consumption.

Methods: a literature review was conducted and articles published in different languages over the last 15 years were retrieved.

Results: the studies reviewed describe the direct effect of alcohol on several neurotransmitter receptors (gamma-aminobutyric acid [GABA], glutamate, endocannabinoids AEA and 2-AG, among others), the indirect effect of alcohol on the limbic and opioid systems, and the effect on calcium and potassium channels and on proteins regulated by GABA in the hippocampus.

Discussion and conclusion: the multiple actions of alcohol on the CNS result in a general effect of psychomotor depression, difficulties in information storage and logical reasoning and motor incoordination, in addition to stimulating the reward system, a fact that may explain the development of addiction. Knowledge on the neuronal signaling pathways that are altered by alcohol allows the identification of effectors which could reduce its central action, thus, offering new therapeutic perspectives for the rehabilitation of alcohol addicts.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Please let us know what you decide to do.

 

And we would really appreciate it if you would continue to update us in the future.

 

Part of SA's mission is to try to educate the medical community about psychiatric drug withdrawal/adverse reactions etc.

 

Members can help with this by continuing to post updates in their Introduction topic which become a case study.  Case studies are essential; they are evidence understood by doctors, the psychiatric industry, and government regulatory agencies. They have already informed numerous articles in major publications and scientific papers. which is what medical professionals can use.  It's one way that members can "pay it forward" after receiving the excellent free information and support from SA.

 

See:

 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

I am going to try 0.5mg for a week.  I never had a really bad reaction while on it and I did feel happier in two days.  I will let you know how it goes.  Thank you for your help I really appreciate it.  

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[ChessieCat]

I suggest that you keep notes on paper.  You could rate your symptoms.  Doing this can help you to be more objective. 

 

When we have a cold we think I feel sick most days when we have the cold because we aren't as well as we want to be but we might actually be a bit better today than we were yesterday, eg the nose might not be running as much, or the coughing might have eased a bit, but because it is still happening but to a lesser extent, we still think I feel sick.  We don't always notice that there has been a change or an improvement.

 

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

[Daisygirlsk]

Since reinstating 0.5 mg citalopram 3 days ago I have an increase in anxiety symptoms. I doesnt feel like an adverse reaction but it's something I've noticed. Is this a very bad sign? Should I stop? 

[Daisygirlsk]

Should i continue or stop the reinstatement?

[manymoretodays]

On 11/5/2020 at 5:49 PM, ChessieCat said:

I suggest that you keep notes on paper.  You could rate your symptoms.  Doing this can help you to be more objective. 

 

When we have a cold we think I feel sick most days when we have the cold because we aren't as well as we want to be but we might actually be a bit better today than we were yesterday, eg the nose might not be running as much, or the coughing might have eased a bit, but because it is still happening but to a lesser extent, we still think I feel sick.  We don't always notice that there has been a change or an improvement.

 

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

Hi Daisygirsk,

Have you been able to keep any Notes/drug and symptoms logs of the past couple of days.  Here's what a sample note would look like, for you to share:

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety (but less than yesterday)

 

  And oh, so helpful for us to see when you are asking questions.  We'll be able to see just when you take your dose of citalopram, and then when symptoms occur, and possible be able to see if there is any correlation.  Take a look at that link in the quote too.  That might help.  Some will even do a rating scale, on symptoms.

 

9 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

Since reinstating 0.5 mg citalopram 3 days ago I have an increase in anxiety symptoms. I doesnt feel like an adverse reaction but it's something I've noticed. Is this a very bad sign? Should I stop? 

 

It may or may not be.  I can't really tell, from the information you've provided.  Usually, it does take at least 4- 7 days to get to a steady state, of your drug, in your body.  And what do you mean by "anxiety" symptoms?  It's just that different people have different experiences of symptoms sometimes.  So, descriptions are great.  And then using, a rating scale too.  Like 1 might refer to minimal symptoms, and then 10 to your worst symptoms.

 

Other things that may have contributed to your "anxiety", recent stressors, etc. should be kept in mind too.

 

And it's been 2 years, since you took Citalopram?  If it were me, I sure would not increase your dose now from 0.5 mg.  And I might keep with that dose, with careful observations for at least a few more days.  (some notes will help us, help you too, as explained above).  If recent stressors, you may start to feel better.

 

And then don't forget to try some non-drug coping as well, for "anxiety".

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

and right in the first post there is a whole indexed list of things to pick from

 

Good links for anxiety and worry

 

And here is a post with a couple of links to the "legs up against the wall pose": 

 

And then:  The Dr. Claire Weekes Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

So you could try some or all of these too, for some relief.  It does take practice.

 

And okay.  I hope that helps a bit.  And.......keep us updated, okay?  Thank you.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by manymoretodays
deleted a abberant link

[Daisygirlsk]

I did increase to 1mg this morning because I felt so desperate. My main anxiety symptom is bad intrusive thoughts. They are nonstop. I just never have any peace. 

 

4am - woke up to teach online 

4:30 to 5:30 - intrusive thoughts but body felt calm

6am - intrusive thoughts very bad now

6:30 - took 1 gravol tablet 

7:30 to 11am - sleep

11am - woke up. Instant anxiety in body. Mind racing. Muscles tense. Feel panicky 

11:30 - 1mg citalopram 

11:45 - ate lunch 

12 to 1pm - tries to watch tv but mind consumed with scary thoughts. 

1:15-1:45 - went for a drive. Feel a little calmer. Less tense but mind still in a dark place.

[Sunnyday]

Hi @Daisygirlsk,

 

I think if you can, it's a good idea to hold off on making changes like that too quickly until there is a response on here like the one manymoretodays gave. 

 

I believe it can sometimes also be a good thing to change our mindset around the drug being the only/last solution, if that makes sense. If we're used to seeing the drugs as the only way out I've found personally that it can become too strong of a habit in resorting to them too quickly. It can be good to learn new coping habits so that they eventually replace the habit of resorting to using substances. This was the case for me with painkillers, benzos and alcohol (even more so in WD since I felt worse in every aspect and was desperate) and for me it was connected to a lack of self care too, so I had to work hard to change my mindset around it and creating new habits. It often meant resisting temporary relief to get more benefits out of it long term.

I don't know if this is the case for you, but thinking it might be a very easily formed habit for anyone who has been on different drugs for a long time. And the mindset that if the drug doesn't work, we're more or less doomed (when we're definitely not). Hopefully this made some sense.

So I was wondering if you have any other go-to methods for coping/managing your symptoms? As a way of eventually not feeling the need to resort to any substances. I feel like that is a big part of getting through all this.

 

Hope you're doing okay at the moment.
 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Sunnyday

[Daisygirlsk]

I've had anxiety for so long and have learned many great techniques for managing it.  The worst for me is the intrusive thoughts which i have zero control over.  It is like my brain is being attacked and i can't stop it.  I can hardly concentrate on anything because they are so strong.  I'm just at a loss.  I've had this for over 2 years now with absolutely zero breaks.  

[Jay78]

I think you might have tried it already, but just as a suggestion, have you done any simple meditation techniques to distance yourself from them despite this awful running commentary which I 've faced too. In my case it was twice after a bad reaction, I literally couldn't stop the obsessive thinking at all, but it just subsided and stopped with time, so maybe yours will stop too, but I feel for you it's almost unbearable when it happens.

[Altostrata]

Hello, Daisy, how do you feel now that you've taken 1mg citalopram?

 

Before reinstating a little citalopram November 5, you had surges in symptoms, is that correct? Now that you're giving reinstatement a try, you'll have to distinguish between the surges you used to have and effects of the drug. The surges may not stop right away.

 

We need to see those daily notes manymoretodays described here

 

If you don't provide those notes, we're not going to be able to help you with the reinstatement.

[Daisygirlsk]

Hello,

I feel more physically anxious now that i took 1mg.  My negative thoughts have also increased.  I will start keeping daily notes.  I don't know if it is anticipatory anxiety because I am so scared of reinstatement and messing myself up more or if it is legitimate symptoms.  I don't notice any immediate scary symptoms like when i had a bad reaction to 20 mg citalopram in November 2018 like severe heart palpitations or bad insomnia or excessive sweating and agitation.  

[Daisygirlsk]

2 hours ago, Jay78 said:

I think you might have tried it already, but just as a suggestion, have you done any simple meditation techniques to distance yourself from them despite this awful running commentary which I 've faced too. In my case it was twice after a bad reaction, I literally couldn't stop the obsessive thinking at all, but it just subsided and stopped with time, so maybe yours will stop too, but I feel for you it's almost unbearable when it happens.

Hello,

Yes i do meditate every night and it does help.  But then my symptoms start all over again in half hour or so. It sucks.  My thoughts are so obsessive and i've had the same ones running nonstop for 19 months.  

[Daisygirlsk]

I feel since I reinstated 4 days ago like I am quickly losing functioning. Until now I have been able to sleep and work. Now I have a raging headache, anxiety through the roof, cant sleep, have no motivation and feel nauseous. My eyes are burning and I cant get out of bed. Before reinstatement I could at least work and sleep and it's not even helping my symptoms. I know I havent given it very long but I'm thinking I should stop?

[Daisygirlsk]

Nov 8 2020

4am - up to teach. Instant anxiety 

4:30-5:30 - intrusive thoughts but body calm 

6:30 - took 50mg gravol to sleep

7am - back to sleep

11am - woke up full of anxiety 

11:40 - 1mg citalopram. Ate lunch

3:10 - getting panicky. Very tense and anxious. Feel damaged in brain.

5pm - ate supper. 

5:15 - 6:15 - fell asleep on couch. Woke up to heart racing 

6:30 - heart beating very fast 

9:30 - pounding headache, tense, eyes feel inflamed, nose burning, very anxious, full of intrusive thoughts, sweating. Took 50mg gravol and went to bed. Fell asleep at midnight 

Slept for 10 hours. First good sleep since reinstating but I always slept well before reinstating

 

Nov 9 2020

10am - woke up. Extremely tense. Mind racing. Have heartburn and feel sick. Took a couple tums to help. 

 

Should I take citalopram today? I feel terrible