Daisygirlsk: I'm at a total loss and desperate

[Daisygirlsk]

I've split my ativan dose into 3 times per day but my interdose akathisia is getting really bad 

[Daisygirlsk]

I'm hoping this is just a wave. So upset. I'm wondering if sex could have triggered it. Sigh.

[Shep]

12 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I'm so sorry to keep posting about this. I had really wanted to stop the benzo after one week use. I have now been using for two weeks. I really would much rather not be on a benzo and have to taper over months. I am so very afraid of having to now go through benzo withdrawal on top of antidepressant withdrawal. Could I do a 25% taper at this point and be off in 4 days or is that just a horrible idea?

 

This was the advice given 9 days ago:

 

On 12/23/2020 at 5:54 AM, Shep said:

You could do a rapid taper off Ativan, making sure you're off within 2 weeks. That means tapering off over the next 4 days. 

 

It's your decision, but we can't keep going round and round with this. Make a game plan and stick to it. Continuing to bounce around is only going to lead to kindling. 

 

Whether or not it's safe to do this now is unknown. 

 

Please note what's required of you and your ability to self-manage: 

 

What do you mean by self-manage?

 

 

[Shep]

Daisy, I would really encourage you to re-read your thread starting here on the 25th when you started sleeping better. By the 30th of December, you were stabilizing, reporting feeling 80% better. 

 

You were encouraged to continue holding and working on non-drug coping skills. 

 

And only one or two days later, you go into full panic mode and start changing your benzo timing and wanting to come off again. Manymoretodays had posted this gem of wisdom to help you learn to cope earlier in your thread: 

 

 

On 11/13/2020 at 1:51 PM, manymoretodays said:

It's just a thought Daisygirlsk, the ideation.  Do your best to recognize that.  Sometimes, when in an emotional spiral, it's tough.  Maybe something in the first couple of posts here will help:  Dealing With Emotional Spirals

Or:  "Change the channel" dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

 

If you wish to taper off this drug now, please work with your doctor, not an online forum. We simply don't have the resources to help members who are constantly making changes and demanding we answer the same questions again and again and then ignoring the advice. There are many non-drug coping skills to work with to get you through the waves, along with many forms of distracting, but it's up to you to learn them and to practice. 

 

I wish there was more we could do for you, but you've been here for 2 years and are still seeking a drug to fix your withdrawal problem or you're expecting the problems to miraculously disappear by stopping the drug. 

 

At this point, I don't have any advice to offer you that will be something you can handle without panic at the first sign of problems. 

 

You may want to join Benzo Buddies for social support. 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Shep
fixed typos

[Daisygirlsk]

I did panic but I have not made any dose changes

[Daisygirlsk]

Hello

I have not made any drug changes as per the advice on here. Still on 1mg ativan a day spread over 3 doses. I had a really good day two days ago. I'm having a ton of body vibrations today but using non drug coping techniques even though my psych has now prescribed propranolol I am not going to take it. I am sleeping very well so I think I am stabilizing on the ativan. Today has been rough but I have not panicked which is an improvement for me lol. Thanks for the continued help.

[Daisygirlsk]

I was also very worried about my doctor not renewing my ativan prescription so I could hold and taper properly but after a lengthy discussion this morning all is well and she will do it. I will continue to hold the ativan. It's a frustrating process trying to stabilize. Some days are so good and some days are so hard and on the hard days I tend to panic and think i need off meds now. I am learning a lot from this site. 

[Daisygirlsk]

Jan 2 2020

1-6am - slept well

6-7am - teaching online. Very mild vibrations. No intrusive thoights!

7am - 15 minutes meditation

8-11am - went back to bed and slept well. Woke up with some vibrations and anxiety 

11am - 0.25mg ativan

11:15 - 12:30 - fell asleep again

12:30 - drank chamomile tea

2:30 - Epsom salt bath

3pm - mild vibrations and anxiety and tension 

4pm - some shaking

5pm - 0.25mg ativan. Symptoms ramping up from stressful conversation 

7-9pm - video chat with friends. Feel well.

11pm - 0.50mg ativan. Feel some sparking and fizzing sensations in body 

 

Jan 3 2020

1:30 - 5am - great sleep 

5am - up to teach. No akathisia but intrusive thoughts. 

5 - 7am - teaching. Drank chamomile tea. 

7:30 -11. Back to bed slept well 

11am - 0.25mg ativan

11:15 - 1pm - fell asleep again

Anxiety and severe intrusive thoughts all afternoon

2:30 - chamomile tea 

3:30 - 15 minute walk

4:15 - 0.25mg ativan 

4:30 - 8:30pm - spent evening at grammas. Some anxiety and intrusive thoights but not severe 

11pm - 0.5mg ativan

 

Jan 4 2020

12am-1pm - 13 hours sleep! 

11am - 0.25mg ativan 

1:30 - chamomile tea 

2:00 - mild vibrations and intrusive thoights 

2:30 - 20 minute walk

3:30 - 6pm - visit at grammas. Lots of vibrations but no anxiety or intrusive thoights 

6pm - 0.25mg ativan. Chamomile tea

7-9pm - watching tv..some vibrations 

9:30pm - Epsom salt bath.

10pm - vibrating a lot 

11pm - 0.50mg ativan

[Daisygirlsk]

I just posted 3 days of daily notes. Should I continue posting them? I have not made any drug changes for 3 weeks and dont plan to. I will continue following the advice here. Thank you.

[Daisygirlsk]

I feel like the Ativan is wearing off very quickly. Would it be smart for me to switch to something like Valium now or only when I want to taper? I definitely don't want to upset my nervous system anymore

[Daisygirlsk]

@Shepis it ok that I tagged you in the above couple posts?

[Shep]

2 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I feel like the Ativan is wearing off very quickly. Would it be smart for me to switch to something like Valium now or only when I want to taper? I definitely don't want to upset my nervous system anymore

 

You've been sleeping all night, Daisy. I wouldn't switch benzos and destroy that kind of stability. You can't expect adding in a benzo will solve all of your antidepressant withdrawal symptoms. 

 

Now is the time to really work on the non-drug coping techniques. 

 

Please read at least the first post in this thread:

 

Ashton and beyond in benzo tapering

 

[Daisygirlsk]

Yes ok thank you. I just wasnt sure If it would help with some of the interdose withdrawals I still have. I will stick with current plan thank you for responding 

[Daisygirlsk]

Jan 5 2020

5am - up to teach.  Had a great sleep from 1am to 5am. Feel some akathisia in legs but very mild.  

5:30-7am - teaching

8-10 - back to bed and fell asleep easily.  Woke up by multiple phone calls.  Never went back to sleep.

11 - 0.25mg ativan

1 - up for the day

2:30 - went to pharmacy and grocery store.  Felt agitated.

3-5 - went to gramma's for tea and supper.  Felt a bit better there.  Drank double chamomile tea.

5:30 - 0.25mg ativan

6:30-7 - epsom salt bath.  More relaxed right after.  

8 - whole body vibrating

9:15 - vibrating getting worse

11:30 - 0.5mg ativan

 

Jan 6 2020 

5am - up to teach.  Did not sleep great.  Body vibrating but mild.  Double chamomile tea

5-6:30 - teaching.  Feel well.  

6:45 - 15 minute meditation

8-11 - back to bed and fell asleep easily.

11 - 0.25mg ativan

11:30 - 1 - sleep again

1-3:30 - akathisia quite severe

3:30 - Gramma's house.  

3:45 - 4:05 - walked outside.  Felt a bit better.

5pm - 0.25mg ativan (home)

5:15 - back to gramma's

5:30 - ate supper and drank another double chamomile

7-8:30 - window of 65% relief of symptoms

9:00 - left gramma's.  Music in my mom's car felt overstimulating and I began feeling agitated and vibrations returning.  Once home, feeling a lot of anxiety.  Stomach feels very tight.  

10:10 - much calmer.  Legs now aching

11pm - 0.50mg ativan.

[Daisygirlsk]

Hello.

I posted my last 2 days of daily notes above.  I seem to be having a lot of akathisia feelings during the day that are quite disruptive and distressing.  My psych prescribed propranolol but i really do not want to take any more drugs.  1mg of ativan is enough for me.  I was wondering if i could potentially take 0.5mg ativan at 11am, 0.25 at 5pm and 0.25 before bed?  That would still be 1mg during 24 hours, just spread out differently.  I sleep well but that could be because I take 0.50 ativan before bed.  I really want to feel better during the day though.  Do you have any recommendations for me?  Thanks.

[Shep]

7 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I was wondering if i could potentially take 0.5mg ativan at 11am, 0.25 at 5pm and 0.25 before bed?  That would still be 1mg during 24 hours, just spread out differently.  I sleep well but that could be because I take 0.50 ativan before bed. 

 

I wouldn't reduce the nighttime dose. If you think you're miserable during the day now, the last thing you want to do is reduce the dose that's getting you a good night's sleep.

 

7 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

5pm - 0.25mg ativan (home)

5:15 - back to gramma's

5:30 - ate supper and drank another double chamomile

7-8:30 - window of 65% relief of symptoms

9:00 - left gramma's.  Music in my mom's car felt overstimulating and I began feeling agitated and vibrations returning.  Once home, feeling a lot of anxiety.  Stomach feels very tight.  

10:10 - much calmer.  Legs now aching

11pm - 0.50mg ativan.

 

You're reporting a window several hours after taking the 5 PM Ativan and feeling much calmer even later in the day. So it doesn't look like you're getting interdose withdrawal. 

 

I would hold where you're at for a few weeks. Please note that this isn't linear - there will be good days and bad days, good hours and bad hours, but that doesn't mean you should start messing around with the dose or the timing of your drug. This can lead to more nervous system destabilization. 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Also, if you haven't already, please read the thread on chamomile tea:

 

Herbal teas: Camomile, ginger, mint, etc. What helps you?

 

[Daisygirlsk]

Ok thank you. I haven't noticed anything negative yet from the chamomile but I will keep this in mind.

[Daisygirlsk]

Positive update:

I slept amazingly well last night. I normally have to sleep with heat on my legs due to akathisia but I did not need any heat whatsoever and slept like a baby.

Ever since my disastrous reinstatements and kindling I always have a pulse of 85 or higher, often 95 or even 100. This is while resting. This evening my pulse is between 68 and 78, which is my normal resting rate before this disaster.

I also had one two hour window today and one one hour window.

I'll take these as positive signs.

I've been on my stable ativan dose for 3.5 weeks. Taking no supplements. I think even Epsom salt baths are triggering me so am just doing plain baths.

Will not even attempt to taper yet.

Thanks for the continued support even through my horrible decision making. Will do things right moving forward and one day put all this hell behind me.

[Shep]

Great update, Daisy. You may want to bookmark that post to remind yourself of the windows whenever a wave comes. 

[Daisygirlsk]

Horrible day today. So frustrating. Will resume posting notes soon. I dont even know what triggered it. Working hard on the non drug coping techniques. Thanks again for all the advice. 

[Daisygirlsk]

Almost 3 years off citalopram and almost no improvement whatsoever mentally.  Starting to think there is something else wrong with me.

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Daisygirlsk,

It's not you, it's WD. I'd bet 💰 on it. Try to focus on the windows, however small and fleeting.

I'd highly recommend keeping going with posting the notes, ESPECIALLY on bad days. 

Sending supportive thoughts from London ❤️🙏

[Daisygirlsk]

I had two weeks after stopping reinstatement where I would have full windows of normalcy. Prior to that I had never had a window in my two years of withdrawal. I again have no windows. I just cant help but think there is more to it than withdrawal for me. I dont understand why I have nonstop mental torment this far out. I only know a couple people with intrusive thoughts as severe as me and one of them is currently in a medically induced coma. People normally have times of intrusive thoughts but mine are literally all day every day..no distraction helps it's like my brain is split in two. I'm really losing hope.

[sunnysideup69]

Sounds awful @Daisygirlsk, I'm so sorry. Makes me so annoyed at these docs and their fast taper recommendations.

 

The thing about 'windows' is that they are not necessarily periods of feeling good. They *can* be that at times, for sure, but often they are just periods of feeling not quite as crap. Did you have periods like that at all, where there wasn't an absence of symptoms but maybe they lessened, even for an hour? If so, those were windows. 

 

I'm looking back at your January 8th post, things sounded better, and now you're in a wave again, by the sounds of things. I know you've reinstated and stopped Citalopram between November and now a couple of times. This can all cause ripples in the nervous system for a while but will settle again to your current 'baseline.'

 

It's a horribly tough journey, believe me, I do understand. This whole nightmare started for me in 2017 when I did a too fast taper on Citalopram. I dropped by fifty per cent. I didn't realise I was getting WD warning signs and made some bad decisions along the way. I'm about four years and a drug switch down the line and definitely in a better place and also won't be tapering just yet. 

 

Rooting for you, Daisygirl. You *will* get through this.

 

 

 

[Shep]

Daisy, please add the date you started Ativan into your signature:

 

Account Settings - Create o Edit Your Signature

 

7 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I just cant help but think there is more to it than withdrawal for me. I dont understand why I have nonstop mental torment this far out. I only know a couple people with intrusive thoughts as severe as me and one of them is currently in a medically induced coma.

 

If this person is in a medically induced coma, how do you know what he or she is thinking?

 

I would stay off the internet. You can find anything out there that will alarm you. That can create waves that wouldn't have happened if you'd find more healthy distractions. When your brain is in a fear state, it's constantly seeking out things that will rise to that level of fear. 

 

When I was going through the intrusive thought stage, I listened to non-stop guided mindfulness videos at work and at home. My intrusive thoughts transferred from negative thoughts to peaceful thoughts over time because the guided meditations were all my brain was getting, so it's all it was looping. 

 

Whatever you're consuming - be it food, drugs, supplements, or what you read and watch - it all feeds into what you become and what you experience. Don't feed the wrong wolf. This is a great story that explains:

 

The Story of Two Wolves

 

As @sunnysideup69 just pointed out, you did have a window January 8. 

 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

I know what she was thinking because she is my friend. The second I open my eyes the thoughts are there. Even when i feed my mind positive things, there is a separate track of horror playing in the background. It's different than most peoples intrusive thoughts.

[mva96]

@Daisygirlsk

 

Hey daisygirl,

 

I too have intrusive thoughts all day. If i wake up in the middle of the night they start straight away. They're the last thing in my mind before bed and the first thing that hit in the day. I have OCD which manifests primarily through intrusive thoughts and mental compulsions, but also some physical ones. Do the intrusive thoughts have a particular theme?

 

It might be worth looking at techniques used in acceptance commitment therapy or ERP. I know how awful they can be. It is however, possible to get it to a point where the thoughts don't bother you, and once the thoughts stop bothering you they tend to decrease in frequency. Sorry your having such a rough time, i know how awful it is feeling like you have a second person in your brain 24/7 throwing horrible things at you

[Daisygirlsk]

57 minutes ago, mva96 said:

@Daisygirlsk

 

Hey daisygirl,

 

I too have intrusive thoughts all day. If i wake up in the middle of the night they start straight away. They're the last thing in my mind before bed and the first thing that hit in the day. I have OCD which manifests primarily through intrusive thoughts and mental compulsions, but also some physical ones. Do the intrusive thoughts have a particular theme?

 

It might be worth looking at techniques used in acceptance commitment therapy or ERP. I know how awful they can be. It is however, possible to get it to a point where the thoughts don't bother you, and once the thoughts stop bothering you they tend to decrease in frequency. Sorry your having such a rough time, i know how awful it is feeling like you have a second person in your brain 24/7 throwing horrible things at you

Thank you for this. Sorry you're struggling so much too. How long have you had the thoughts? Mine are always harm themed.

[mva96]

@Daisygirlsk I've had them on a mild level most my life, but around christmas 2019 i got pushed over the edge and they became severe and constant, its why i went on medication in the first place.

 

Harm is a very common theme.

 

I'd advise you take a look at: https://ocdla.com/harm-ocd-1-1982

 

and

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/understanding-the-anxious-mind/202005/understanding-harm-ocd

 

Does that sound like you?

 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

Yes I've been diagnosed with ocd

[mva96]

check out mark freeman on youtube, he fully recovered from severe OCD and his content has helped me a lot

[Daisygirlsk]

He has a great channel. I've been a long time subscriber. I can resist compulsion but the obsessions are just so extreme and completely uncontrollable 

[mva96]

Yeah completely understand. I've seen it time and time again that people say OCD is much worse during withdrawal. I also find the frequency and intensity of the thoughts is considerably worse, especially during a bad wave.

[jozeff]

Hi daisygirlsk!

 

Wonderful channel you've got. Impressive,  I started watching your latest video and was moved by it. Shouldn't be watching this stuff late at night probably.

I'm really stunned by the fact that you don't have more viewers. A couple of hundred. You deserve a lot more. 

 

So if I'm correct you are currently 6 months med free. I really believe that you will heal. Out of despair you started messing with your dose I understand that.

What I don't understand is that medical professionals don't know all this stuff. I know this has been mentioned here thousands of times but it keeps baffling me. If I google "ssri wd" I have a lot of info in 3 minutes. They don't want you to outsmart them. My doctor told me not to Google for medical things because the source is unknown. I'm a chemist so I think I know what to believe and what is bs. Don't want to sound arrogant but we are all adults and smart enough to star our own topic here.

 

I truly hope that you will see better days daisygirlsk. I'm sending you good vibes right now from across the Atlantic 😃  . Should be reaching you any minute.....

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

1 minute ago, jozeff said:

Hi daisygirlsk!

 

Wonderful channel you've got. Impressive,  I started watching your latest video and was moved by it. Shouldn't be watching this stuff late at night probably.

I'm really stunned by the fact that you don't have more viewers. A couple of hundred. You deserve a lot more. 

 

So if I'm correct you are currently 6 months med free. I really believe that you will heal. Out of despair you started messing with your dose I understand that.

What I don't understand is that medical professionals don't know all this stuff. I know this has been mentioned here thousands of times but it keeps baffling me. If I google "ssri wd" I have a lot of info in 3 minutes. They don't want you to outsmart them. My doctor told me not to Google for medical things because the source is unknown. I'm a chemist so I think I know what to believe and what is bs. Don't want to sound arrogant but we are all adults and smart enough to star our own topic here.

 

I truly hope that you will see better days daisygirlsk. I'm sending you good vibes right now from across the Atlantic 😃  . Should be reaching you any minute.....

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

thank you so much! I am just over 4 months med free! I am very tired. I just want this all to stop. how are you doing?

[jozeff]

3 minutes ago, Daisygirlsk said:

over 4 months med free! I am very tired. I just want this all to stop.

Great!! I understand how you feel (kind of). Do you feel improvements already all be it very small?

 

I'm doing ok-ish (I hear the ish thing a lot on tv so I might as well use it myself;)

 

I try to taper 2% per week. Did around 12 % last 4 weeks and had a really rough week last couple of days. Derealisation and feeling that I don't belong to this world.very strange. And just no energy. Not tired but just exhausted  en lethargic.  My 2y old boy kept me awake a couple of times and that didn't help either. He takes a nap every afternoon while I'm at work!

 

Think I stick to 7.5 mg for a week or two and see what happens.  I dream of the day I take my last dose, that's for sure.

 

Do you currently have a job? I understood that you teach English, just don't remember you mentioning your current situation....memory loss...do you also have that?

 

Wishing you the best!!

 

Jozeff