DeterminedAnna: long time Seroxat / Paxil / paroxetine user

[intothewoods]

Aw, bugger @Sassenach, I thought we were cutting up, trying to lift Anna's spirits. Let's plan a different menu... I'm all for staying healthy and happy 😊.

 

My best to you, always.

 

intothewoods

[Altostrata]

DeterminedAnna, if I were you, I'd see a dermatologist. You might be allergic to the soap you're using or your laundry detergent.

 

Yes, ordinarily an allergic reaction to a drug would be a rash of red dots or hives, but it could be localized. You can become allergic to a drug even after taking it for a long time.

 

That's the extent of what I know about drug-induced rashes.

 

When was the last time you had a liver function blood test?

 

Are you still taking lorazepam?

 

I need to see your drug schedule and symptom pattern in a daily notes format, as requested before: 

 

On 5/15/2019 at 9:41 AM, Altostrata said:

....

Since you're so carefully titrating and have split the dose, somewhat of an experiment, please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

 

Try as I might, I have not been able to memorize everyone's drug schedule.

 

Why do you think a mildly fatty liver precludes taking Prozac? 

 

It's possible you took the usual 20mg dose of Prozac at one time and it was too much for you. If you substituted it for the paroxetine you're taking, you'd probably not take more than 5mg. Same with citalopram.

[DeterminedAnna]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

DeterminedAnna, if I were you, I'd see a dermatologist. You might be allergic to the soap you're using or your laundry detergent.

 

Yes, ordinarily an allergic reaction to a drug would be a rash of red dots or hives, but it could be localized. You can become allergic to a drug even after taking it for a long time.

 

That's the extent of what I know about drug-induced rashes.

 

When was the last time you had a liver function blood test?

 

Are you still taking lorazepam?

 

I need to see your drug schedule and symptom pattern in a daily notes format, as requested before: 

 

 

Try as I might, I have not been able to memorize everyone's drug schedule.

 

Why do you think a mildly fatty liver precludes taking Prozac? 

 

It's possible you took the usual 20mg dose of Prozac at one time and it was too much for you. If you substituted it for the paroxetine you're taking, you'd probably not take more than 5mg. Same with citalopram.

Hi Alto

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I'll ask for a dermatologist referral from my GP. Thank you for the pointers about allergies. I'm not scared of being allergic. I can easily tolerate the skin issues.

 

My last liver function test was 4 April 2019 – the elevated alanine transaminase was 39 with normal range for the test of 5 – 33. (On 5 March 2019 it was 45 using same test ranges.)

 

I'm not still taking lorazepam. Took 7x 1mg tablets spread between 3 and 22 June, mainly in the week beginning 3 June. I've had two periods of taking lorazepam this year (and my whole life). Both occasions were no more than 7x 1mg tablets.

 

I will record a daily symptom pattern as you requested before. I'll update you in a week so there's something of substance. Sorry I didn't provide it previously.

I'm not scared about switching drugs because of the liver issues. I'm terrified of switching because of the mental effects and the risk of akathisia, which I'm sure I had in January and February and is unbearable. I am terrified of making a change that makes my mental situation (withdrawal anxiety and depression) irreparably worse.

I also thought that to stand a chance of compensating for the withdrawal from Seroxat, the new drug – whether it's fluoxetine of citalopram – should be at least equivalent in dose, or even slightly more to compensate for the inevitable destabilisation of switching. As I'm currently taking 7.72mg Seroxat, I'm concerned that 5mg of either would be too low. But I don't want to go too high either.

(According to this 20mg paroxetine is equivalent to 20mg fluoxetine, and 33.3mg citalopram.)

 

I'll update you with daily symptom pattern soon.

Thank you again.

[Sassenach]

Hi Anna

How are you doing today?

According to @Longroadhome I am  straight to the point ( bull in a china shop🤣)

She is so diplomatic, don't you think.

Hope you are ok.

 

Sass

[DeterminedAnna]

 

31 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Anna

How are you doing today?

According to @Longroadhome I am  straight to the point ( bull in a china shop🤣)

She is so diplomatic, don't you think.

Hope you are ok.

 

Sass

Hi Sassy,

 

Thank you for saying hello. The first half of today has been tough, but the afternoon onwards has been an improvement. My part-time teaching job has a lot to answer for – the children I teach are lovely little people and they take me out of myself.

 

I got my new VW Up! on Tuesday. It's not got anywhere near the power of the Cupra (and I miss that power), but it's surprisingly big inside.

 

How are you doing? I feel a bit out of the loop with you and @Longroadhome. I'll have a read of your threads now...

 

Thank you again. x

Edited June 27, 2019 by DeterminedAnna
Duplicated text

[Sassenach]

Good to hear.

Guess I shouldn't tell you about my sunday afternoon at my mates farm throwing an Impreza WRX round his rally track😈

Byeeeeeeeeeeee

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, DeterminedAnna said:

the elevated alanine transaminase was 39 with normal range for the test of 5 – 33.

 

Was this attributed to fatty liver? I don't know anything about that condition, but I believe elevated ALT indicates other types of liver damage, such as an adverse drug reaction.

 

As I've explained a couple of times, it could be you're having difficulty at this stage of your paroxetine taper because the drug is being metabolized more quickly. If you take a drug with a longer half-life, such as fluoxetine or citalopram, you may not need as high a dosage. 

 

Because drugs differ in their effect, switching from one to another need not be a dosage equivalent. You can always increase the dosage if you feel it's not high enough.

[DeterminedAnna]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Was this attributed to fatty liver? I don't know anything about that condition, but I believe elevated ALT indicates other types of liver damage, such as an adverse drug reaction.

 

As I've explained a couple of times, it could be you're having difficulty at this stage of your paroxetine taper because the drug is being metabolized more quickly. If you take a drug with a longer half-life, such as fluoxetine or citalopram, you may not need as high a dosage. 

 

Because drugs differ in their effect, switching from one to another need not be a dosage equivalent. You can always increase the dosage if you feel it's not high enough.

Hello Alto,

 

The elevated ALT was put down to 'mild fatty liver'. My 14 May liver ultrasound revealed this.

 

Along with my lunchtime dose of 7mg Seroxat, since 12 May I've been taking a very small (0.72mg) evening dose of Seroxat. I've been doing this as I too suspected Seroxat's shorter half-life was responsible for my symptoms being more pronounced in the morning.

 

I'm continuing to track my daily symptoms and will be back soon with the notes, at which point I will revisit the possibility of switching drugs. Just scared of rocking the already-unsteady boat with drug changes.

[Sassenach]

Hi Anna

 

How have you been feeling today?

 

Sas

[Tom37]

Hi Anna,

 

I see your in a similar place to me in that your trying to stabilise but it’s not quite happening. From the research I’ve done it seems it’s not uncommon for stabilising to take 12 months or more so keep hanging in there. It seems you are having windows and you have seen improvements which is a good sign. 

 

I know it’s hard to keep being positive and to keep finding the strength to keep going as I deal with that too but stabilising does happen unless of course your dealing with drug side effects or tolerance issues. 

 

Hope you see some progress soon!

 

Keep going!

[DeterminedAnna]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:29 PM, RichT said:

Hi Anna,

 

Sorry to hear you've been having a difficult time.

 

I too have experience with the short term benefits of benzos. They do work well for many people, but as you know they charge a high price. I don't know if using them occasionally has contributed to your symptoms now. It can be very hard to disentangle what causes what.

 

I've learned from people's stories on here, and my own experience, that the most important thing you can do is to give your brain and body stability so that theya can start to adjust to the new levels of medication in your system. Changing dose can make things worse once your system is sensitised, and it will inevitably give you more change to adjust to.

 

I know it's very hard to let dosages be when you're suffering so intensely, but sadly it seems there is no magic bullet to take these symptoms away. Time, and looking after yourself as best you can, will bring change.

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the NHS and well done for complaining. I hope your CBT is restored soon!

 

You new psychiatrist does sound better. I can't comment on his suggestions for reducing withdrawal symptoms - others may be able to help.

 

I think it's naive of the NHS team to suggest your thoughts are causing your symptoms. To me, it seems that withdrawal very often leads to negative thinking, which can of course make things worse. So a feedback loop can easily be set up. But thoughts are not the root cause of withdrawal symptoms.

 

Warmest wishes

 

Rich

Hey Rich,

 

I never said thank you for your lovely post. If I see your name on my thread I think of one of my favourite biscuits.

 

You are right, it is very hard letting dosages just be. I find tolerating and accepting my symptoms very very difficult.

 

Thanks to my complaint, I have been in touch with, and visited by, the manager of the urgent care team. She said the cancellation of my CBT without telling me was totally a fault of poor communication between the departments and the criteria for cancelling someone from CBT – if they've come under the care of the urgent care team and are viewed as unstable – is going to be reviewed because it is too black and white.

 

She is also now working with everyone who has been involved in my healthcare in the past six months – the psychiatrists, my GP, and the mental health nurses. I have already received an apology letter from the psychiatrist I saw in April acknowledging all my points about withdrawal not being the same as relapse, and about my concerns that she didn't even know liquid Seroxat exists.

 

The urgent care team manager has also shared my email and all my experiences and theories (and many links to studies and pages in this site) with all those involved with the view of learning from it. She said my complaint is very useful as evidence to put to the chief exec of the Trust, since they know that withdrawing from antidepressants and psychiatric drugs is a real issue. 

 

As a result of this, it looks like I'll be seeing a psychologist instead of CBT. For me, the act of offloading my thoughts to an objective person is very useful, so I hope this doesn't get cancelled. I've asked about acceptance and commitment therapy – it's been mentioned on this site a lot – and the urgent care team manager thinks the psychologist knows about it.

 

I've also reiterated my views on chopping and changing my medication. I don't want to be a guinea pig when I'm so prone to instability. The urgent care team manager reminded me that a psychologist doesn't prescribe. In her own words, she said she believes the best I can get from the psychologist is ways of coping and not being terrified of, or paralysed, by my symptoms.

 

She also said that when I'm ready to resume my taper, they want to make sure I'm under the care of the 'planned recovery and care team' with regular appointments with a 'primary care liaison worker'. But this might not be for some months yet, so I'm not exploring that right now.

 

How are you doing? Might be imagining it, but I think you've become an official mentor on this site since we spoke a while back about music. You have been a calming comfort to me with your positive and considerate comments. So I'm certain you will have this effect on others too – well done.

 

Thank you again.

 

Anna x

[DeterminedAnna]

On 6/28/2019 at 6:27 PM, Sassenach said:

Hi Anna

 

How have you been feeling today?

 

Sas

Hey Sas,

 

You've become a moderator! Well done you! You've totally earned it and are totally right for it. You have been a massive help to me, and I know you've been the same for others.

 

I had a good-ish Friday afternoon and Saturday. But yesterday and this morning hasn't been great. (Although I've learned a lot about cricket thanks to a visit to my parents yesterday and the match being on TV).

 

How are you? 

 

Thanks for saying hello. Appreciate it. 

 

Anna x

 

 

[DeterminedAnna]

8 hours ago, Tom37 said:

Hi Anna,

 

I see your in a similar place to me in that your trying to stabilise but it’s not quite happening. From the research I’ve done it seems it’s not uncommon for stabilising to take 12 months or more so keep hanging in there. It seems you are having windows and you have seen improvements which is a good sign. 

 

I know it’s hard to keep being positive and to keep finding the strength to keep going as I deal with that too but stabilising does happen unless of course your dealing with drug side effects or tolerance issues. 

 

Hope you see some progress soon!

 

Keep going!

Hey Tom,

 

thank you so much. Yes, 'not quite happening' is the perfect way to describe my holding out for stabilisation. It's frustrating, exhausting and heartbreaking, especially when waking up and the symptoms are still there. So thank you for the reassurance. Really matters.

 

You are right too, I have seen some windows, so I know I'm capable of them. It's just such a distinct difference between the waves and windows, and in the midst of a wave it's very hard to recall or imagine a window (and vice versa). For me, waves feel like they will never end and that I'm the unable-to-heal exception to everyone. And I start fearing everything – things that I've never in my life been anxious about.

 

But, despite having an awful morning (wakeup panic and intrusive thoughts) I'm up, I'm working (well, between updating my thread here) and I'm just about to have a lovely chicken salad for lunch.

 

I'm trying not to muddy the waters with thoughts about drug side effects or tolerance (although it has occurred to me too). I'm hoping I have a case of withdrawal, pure and simple, because I can just about get my head around that concept.

 

Thank you again for saying hello and the reassurance. I hope your next window comes along soon and big well done for all your continued, determined efforts to ride the waves.

 

Anna x

[Longroadhome]

1 hour ago, DeterminedAnna said:

Hey Tom,

 

thank you so much. Yes, 'not quite happening' is the perfect way to describe my holding out for stabilisation. It's frustrating, exhausting and heartbreaking, especially when waking up and the symptoms are still there. So thank you for the reassurance. Really matters.

 

You are right too, I have seen some windows, so I know I'm capable of them. It's just such a distinct difference between the waves and windows, and in the midst of a wave it's very hard to recall or imagine a window (and vice versa). For me, waves feel like they will never end and that I'm the unable-to-heal exception to everyone. And I start fearing everything – things that I've never in my life been anxious about.

 

But, despite having an awful morning (wakeup panic and intrusive thoughts) I'm up, I'm working (well, between updating my thread here) and I'm just about to have a lovely chicken salad for lunch.

 

I'm trying not to muddy the waters with thoughts about drug side effects or tolerance (although it has occurred to me too). I'm hoping I have a case of withdrawal, pure and simple, because I can just about get my head around that concept.

 

Thank you again for saying hello and the reassurance. I hope your next window comes along soon and big well done for all your continued, determined efforts to ride the waves.

 

Anna x

Afternoon Anna

lovely to see more postings from you . 

I can identify with what you are saying to go to bed feeling ok (maybe) and waking up with the awful anxiety feelings is unbearable at times . 

I also identify with windows and waves . A tiny window followed by a tsunami that’s what I liken it to. And I don’t get the level being better after the window at the moment as the wave tends to feel worse on its return. Guess what I’m saying is we’re all in the same boat riding the storm . It’s so weird how symptoms come and go and turn into something else isn’t it.   I reckon we will be fit for anything once we’ve recovered . My head will be so big I’ll feel like I could climb a mountain and that’s what keeps me going . I read a little of Pugs thread (actually I read it loads it’s so

positive) and he says sometimes all we can do is keep going day to day hour by hour minute by minute and this is when you know that someone that has recovered has been through identical. 

Why are you worried about drug side effects and tolerance? 

X 

[Longroadhome]

1 hour ago, DeterminedAnna said:

Hey Rich,

 

I never said thank you for your lovely post. If I see your name on my thread I think of one of my favourite biscuits.

 

You are right, it is very hard letting dosages just be. I find tolerating and accepting my symptoms very very difficult.

 

Thanks to my complaint, I have been in touch with, and visited by, the manager of the urgent care team. She said the cancellation of my CBT without telling me was totally a fault of poor communication between the departments and the criteria for cancelling someone from CBT – if they've come under the care of the urgent care team and are viewed as unstable – is going to be reviewed because it is too black and white.

 

She is also now working with everyone who has been involved in my healthcare in the past six months – the psychiatrists, my GP, and the mental health nurses. I have already received an apology letter from the psychiatrist I saw in April acknowledging all my points about withdrawal not being the same as relapse, and about my concerns that she didn't even know liquid Seroxat exists.

 

The urgent care team manager has also shared my email and all my experiences and theories (and many links to studies and pages in this site) with all those involved with the view of learning from it. She said my complaint is very useful as evidence to put to the chief exec of the Trust, since they know that withdrawing from antidepressants and psychiatric drugs is a real issue. 

 

As a result of this, it looks like I'll be seeing a psychologist instead of CBT. For me, the act of offloading my thoughts to an objective person is very useful, so I hope this doesn't get cancelled. I've asked about acceptance and commitment therapy – it's been mentioned on this site a lot – and the urgent care team manager thinks the psychologist knows about it.

 

I've also reiterated my views on chopping and changing my medication. I don't want to be a guinea pig when I'm so prone to instability. The urgent care team manager reminded me that a psychologist doesn't prescribe. In her own words, she said she believes the best I can get from the psychologist is ways of coping and not being terrified of, or paralysed, by my symptoms.

 

She also said that when I'm ready to resume my taper, they want to make sure I'm under the care of the 'planned recovery and care team' with regular appointments with a 'primary care liaison worker'. But this might not be for some months yet, so I'm not exploring that right now.

 

How are you doing? Might be imagining it, but I think you've become an official mentor on this site since we spoke a while back about music. You have been a calming comfort to me with your positive and considerate comments. So I'm certain you will have this effect on others too – well done.

 

Thank you again.

 

Anna x

Anna what is acceptance and commitment therapy and does it come through our GP route? 

I think the idea of a psychologist to talk wd through is a good move . I’d like to explore that route myself as you can’t keep telling loved ones the same thing . They are supportive but naive. X

[DeterminedAnna]

14 minutes ago, Longroadhome said:

Afternoon Anna

lovely to see more postings from you . 

I can identify with what you are saying to go to bed feeling ok (maybe) and waking up with the awful anxiety feelings is unbearable at times . 

I also identify with windows and waves . A tiny window followed by a tsunami that’s what I liken it to. And I don’t get the level being better after the window at the moment as the wave tends to feel worse on its return. Guess what I’m saying is we’re all in the same boat riding the storm . It’s so weird how symptoms come and go and turn into something else isn’t it.   I reckon we will be fit for anything once we’ve recovered . My head will be so big I’ll feel like I could climb a mountain and that’s what keeps me going . I read a little of Pugs thread (actually I read it loads it’s so

positive) and he says sometimes all we can do is keep going day to day hour by hour minute by minute and this is when you know that someone that has recovered has been through identical. 

Why are you worried about drug side effects and tolerance? 

X 

 

Hello LRH,

 

I'm here today, but I really shouldn't be – work to do...

 

Yes, a small window followed by a tsunami is exactly the right description.

 

I'm worried about side effects and tolerance (poop out) because if it's those things that are causing my symptoms, then as I understand it, I need to start tapering again.

 

But tapering is what got me into withdrawal symptoms and unstable in the first place (although in hindsight, when I was tapering last year, until December 2018, I was not monitoring my symptoms and I may have been going too fast. I was blissfully ignorant)... 

 

So whether it's withdrawal, side effects or tolerance that is causing my current symptoms, I'm just not sure. It's a rock and hard place situation.

 

I'm still logging my daily symptoms and will post them soon, so hopefully that will help identify what's happening.

 

6 minutes ago, Longroadhome said:

Anna what is acceptance and commitment therapy and does it come through our GP route? 

I think the idea of a psychologist to talk wd through is a good move . I’d like to explore that route myself as you can’t keep telling loved ones the same thing . They are supportive but naive. X

I've seen 'acceptance and commitment therapy' (ACT) mentioned on this site a few times – here's the links I've saved, although I'm sure there's more on it in other SA places...

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/6646-dr-rob-pursseys-tips-about-acceptance-and-commitment-therapy-act/

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5873-mindfulness-and-acceptance/

 

And from https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/therapy-types/acceptance-and-commitment-therapy:

 

Quote

Acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT) is an action-oriented approach to psychotherapy that stems from traditional behavior therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy. Clients learn to stop avoiding, denying, and struggling with their inner emotions and, instead, accept that these deeper feelings are appropriate responses to certain situations that should not prevent them from moving forward in their lives. With this understanding, clients begin to accept their issues and hardships and commit to making necessary changes in their behavior, regardless of what is going on in their lives, and how they feel about it.

 

The reason it appeals to me is that I have great difficulty accepting my symptoms and thoughts for what they are. If I have a suicidal image come into my mind (which seems to be part and parcel of my withdrawal symptoms) I add a secondary layer of distress by getting upset about the image, which then descends into a vicious cycle. Same with other symptoms.

 

Although there's so much useful information on this site about floating, mindfulness and acceptance, I find reading is too passive a way for me to absorb and take on information. I need someone talking me through it face to face, and in an interactive way so I can ask my typically analytical questions and air any pessimism/cynicism/uncertainty I may have as I learn.

 

I've not yet had it confirmed as I'm waiting to hear from the psychologist, but the urgent care team manager who has been dealing with my complaint recognised ACT and even finished my sentence when I started mentioning 'acceptance and commitment...' it to her. So I hope it's something that's available to me. I'll let you know.

 

All local health trusts are different so I can't say how yours would be if you asked about ACT. But I would say that being a bit pushy for things, although stressful, hasn't backfired and I am being listened to.

 

Hope that helps – and thank you for dropping by XXX 

 

 

 

 

 

[Longroadhome]

1 hour ago, DeterminedAnna said:

 

Hello LRH,

 

I'm here today, but I really shouldn't be – work to do...

 

Yes, a small window followed by a tsunami is exactly the right description.

 

I'm worried about side effects and tolerance (poop out) because if it's those things that are causing my symptoms, then as I understand it, I need to start tapering again.

 

But tapering is what got me into withdrawal symptoms and unstable in the first place (although in hindsight, when I was tapering last year, until December 2018, I was not monitoring my symptoms and I may have been going too fast. I was blissfully ignorant)... 

 

So whether it's withdrawal, side effects or tolerance that is causing my current symptoms, I'm just not sure. It's a rock and hard place situation.

 

I'm still logging my daily symptoms and will post them soon, so hopefully that will help identify what's happening.

 

I've seen 'acceptance and commitment therapy' (ACT) mentioned on this site a few times – here's the links I've saved, although I'm sure there's more on it in other SA places...

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/6646-dr-rob-pursseys-tips-about-acceptance-and-commitment-therapy-act/

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5873-mindfulness-and-acceptance/

 

And from https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/therapy-types/acceptance-and-commitment-therapy:

 

 

The reason it appeals to me is that I have great difficulty accepting my symptoms and thoughts for what they are. If I have a suicidal image come into my mind (which seems to be part and parcel of my withdrawal symptoms) I add a secondary layer of distress by getting upset about the image, which then descends into a vicious cycle. Same with other symptoms.

 

Although there's so much useful information on this site about floating, mindfulness and acceptance, I find reading is too passive a way for me to absorb and take on information. I need someone talking me through it face to face, and in an interactive way so I can ask my typically analytical questions and air any pessimism/cynicism/uncertainty I may have as I learn.

 

I've not yet had it confirmed as I'm waiting to hear from the psychologist, but the urgent care team manager who has been dealing with my complaint recognised ACT and even finished my sentence when I started mentioning 'acceptance and commitment...' it to her. So I hope it's something that's available to me. I'll let you know.

 

All local health trusts are different so I can't say how yours would be if you asked about ACT. But I would say that being a bit pushy for things, although stressful, hasn't backfired and I am being listened to.

 

Hope that helps – and thank you for dropping by XXX 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your reply  

im going to spk with my GP . I haven’t been to talk about my WD with them and no one has asked. They are so inadequate regarding ADs and WD it’s shameful. 

Yeah please do let me know if you are referred . 

Take care xx 

[Sassenach]

Hi Anna

 

Well done for taking on the system and winning.

You should be proud of your confidence.

Currently I feel like the man in " The Prisoner " looking for an exit sign, then when I escape there is nowhere to go

Good to hear you doing your name justice.

 

Sassenach

[RichT]

6 hours ago, DeterminedAnna said:

Hey Rich,

 

I never said thank you for your lovely post. If I see your name on my thread I think of one of my favourite biscuits.

 

You are right, it is very hard letting dosages just be. I find tolerating and accepting my symptoms very very difficult.

 

Thanks to my complaint, I have been in touch with, and visited by, the manager of the urgent care team. She said the cancellation of my CBT without telling me was totally a fault of poor communication between the departments and the criteria for cancelling someone from CBT – if they've come under the care of the urgent care team and are viewed as unstable – is going to be reviewed because it is too black and white.

 

She is also now working with everyone who has been involved in my healthcare in the past six months – the psychiatrists, my GP, and the mental health nurses. I have already received an apology letter from the psychiatrist I saw in April acknowledging all my points about withdrawal not being the same as relapse, and about my concerns that she didn't even know liquid Seroxat exists.

 

The urgent care team manager has also shared my email and all my experiences and theories (and many links to studies and pages in this site) with all those involved with the view of learning from it. She said my complaint is very useful as evidence to put to the chief exec of the Trust, since they know that withdrawing from antidepressants and psychiatric drugs is a real issue. 

 

As a result of this, it looks like I'll be seeing a psychologist instead of CBT. For me, the act of offloading my thoughts to an objective person is very useful, so I hope this doesn't get cancelled. I've asked about acceptance and commitment therapy – it's been mentioned on this site a lot – and the urgent care team manager thinks the psychologist knows about it.

 

I've also reiterated my views on chopping and changing my medication. I don't want to be a guinea pig when I'm so prone to instability. The urgent care team manager reminded me that a psychologist doesn't prescribe. In her own words, she said she believes the best I can get from the psychologist is ways of coping and not being terrified of, or paralysed, by my symptoms.

 

She also said that when I'm ready to resume my taper, they want to make sure I'm under the care of the 'planned recovery and care team' with regular appointments with a 'primary care liaison worker'. But this might not be for some months yet, so I'm not exploring that right now.

 

How are you doing? Might be imagining it, but I think you've become an official mentor on this site since we spoke a while back about music. You have been a calming comfort to me with your positive and considerate comments. So I'm certain you will have this effect on others too – well done.

 

Thank you again.

 

Anna x

 

Those mostly sound like positive developments! 

 

You’re right, I’ve become a mentor quite recently. Thank you for your kind words

 

warmest wishes

 

Rich

[DeterminedAnna]

Hi @Altostrata

 

Been a tough few days. But, I've logged all my symptoms, as requested. Sorry it's all in bold, I can't seem to switch it off from where I've copied and pasted it.

 

Would be hugely grateful for your thoughts on the below.

 

 

DeterminedAnna's daily symptoms – 27 June to 3 July 2019 

• Scale: 0 – no symptoms / 10 – extreme symptoms

• Dark red: bad symptoms, ranging to...Green: no symptoms, feel normal or even good

• Drink at least 1.5 litres (0.33 gallons) of sparkling mineral water a day.

• Have taken one 10mg propranolol during the below period. Was prescribed them in March 2019 for emergencies and have taken five of them, on five separate occasions weeks apart, since that time.

• I have taken Imodium (loperamide) a couple of times in the below period. I rarely take this, and only do so if my diarrhoea is extreme (sometimes it's the urgency that wakes me up).

• Last period: started 11 June 2019. Each cycle averages 41 days (based on last ten periods), so I probably ovulate around day 27. I believe symptoms peak around ovulation and stay high until period, between days 27 and 41. NB. My last three periods have been closer together – 36, 39, and 34 days apart – so a more recent average is 36.33 days. This would put my ovulation date at around day 22.

 

Thursday 27 June 2019 – day 16 of menstrual cycle

• 08:00 - 09:30 – half awake, nightmare-like jumbled racing thoughts – anxiety 6/10; depression 6/10

• 09:30 – fully awake, checking emails, extreme racing thoughts, jittery sensations, zero motivation – anxiety 8/10; depression 8/10

• 10:10 – explosive yellow diarrhoea

• 10:15 – phone call to parents, intense crying – anxiety 7/10; depression 10/10

• 10:30 – housework – anxiety 7/10; depression 9/10

• 11:00 – probiotic yoghurt, breakfast cereal bar and 300ml (10 fl oz) orange juice

• 11:10 – update my SA thread – anxiety 7/10; depression 9/10

• 11:30 – measure out Seroxat doses for next four days – anxiety 6/10; depression 9/10

• 11:50 - 13:30 – freelance work – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 13:30 – lunch of ham / pearl barley salad, hummus and rye crackers – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 13:50 – take 7mg Seroxat, 2000 IU vitamin D3, 200mg magnesium citrate, half a multivitamin/mineral tablet

• 14:00 – deep breathing exercise with calming music – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 14:15 – shower / makeup for part-time tutoring job – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 14:45 – drive to job – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 15:00 - 18:15 – tutoring job and drive home – anxiety 3/10; depression 5/10 (15:15 – weak black tea and milk)

• 18:15 - 18:45 – housework – anxiety 4/10; depression 6/10

• 18:50 - 20:00 – freelance work – anxiety 4/10; depression 6/10

• 20:05 – dinner of half a ham and mushroom pizza and mixed salad, some banter with partner – anxiety 3/10; depression 6/10

• 20:20 – take 0.72mg Seroxat

• 20:30 - 00:30 – freelance work in lounge with partner watching TV – anxiety 3/10; depression 6/10

• (28 June 2019) 01:15(?) sleep

• Neck / collar bone skin issues – itchy, red, hot leathery skin with tiny blisters: 7/10.

 

Friday 28 June 2019 – day 17 of menstrual cycle

• 08:00 – wake up, didn’t linger in bed as long as yesterday with anxious thoughts – anxiety 6/10; depression 6/10

• 08:30 - 10:30 – housework – anxiety 6/10; depression 7/10

• 09:05 – yellow diarrhoea

• 10:30 - 13:30 – freelance work – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 11:20 – breakfast cereal bar

• 11:45 – music track plays that reminds me of peak Seroxat withdrawal symptoms, feel agitated – anxiety 7/10; depression 7/10

• 13:30 - 13:50 – lunch of chicken salad and falafel, one 330ml (11 fl oz) can Pepsi Max cherry

• 13:50 – take 7mg Seroxat, 2000 IU vitamin D3, 200mg magnesium citrate, half a multivitamin/mineral tablet

• 13:55 – looked at holiday websites, feel stressed – anxiety 8/10; depression 8/10

• 14:00 - 19:00 – freelance work and correspondence – anxiety 5/10; depression 6/10

• 18:00 – 300ml (10 fl oz) glass of orange juice

• 19:00 – dinner of salad, ham, hummus, pitta bread, falafel; anxiety 2/10; depression 3/10

• 19:30 - 22:30 – watch TV; light chit chat with partner, some joking – anxiety 1/10; depression 2/10

• 20:10 – probiotic yoghurt

• 20:10 – take 0.72mg Seroxat

• 22:30 – shower, feel cheerful – anxiety 1/10; depression 1/10

• 23:00 – in bed, deep breathing exercises, cuddle my cat, feel good – anxiety 0/10; depression 0/10

• 23:30 onwards – reading on phone with strong blue light filter; feel awake, motivated and energised – anxiety 0/10; depression 0/10

• (29 June 2019) 02:00(?) – sleep

• Neck / collar bone skin issues: 8/10 – spreading downwards, getting more itchy and tingly again.

 

Saturday 29 June 2019 – day 18 of menstrual cycle

• 07:30 – wake up very briefly, can't remember status of symptoms

• 10:00 – wake up fully to partner stroking my hair (unusually, I don't jerkily push him away and don't have any memorable nightmares) – anxiety 3/10; depression 3/10

• 10:10 – yellow diarrhoea

• 10:15 – back to bed for weak black milky tea and breakfast cereal bar, feel cheerful – anxiety 1/10; depression 0/10

• 10:30 – wash oral syringes – anxiety 1/10; depression 0/10

• 10:45 - 11:30 – housework – anxiety 3/10; depression 3/10

• 11:30 - 12:00 – read about dreaming, REM sleep and depression – anxiety 4/10; depression 4/10

• 12:00 - 13:30 – housework – anxiety 2/10; depression 2/10

• 13:30 – lunch of ham salad, pitta bread, hummus, pickles – anxiety 2/10; depression 2/10

• 13:45 – take 7mg Seroxat, 2000 IU vitamin D3, 200mg magnesium citrate, half a multivitamin/mineral tablet

• 14:00 - 19:30 – freelance work, felt cheerful, motivated and calm – anxiety 0/10; depression 0/10

• 19:45 – dinner of mushroom pie, spring greens and baby sweetcorn, followed by Magnum ice-cream – anxiety 0/10; depression 0/10

• 20:00 – take 0.72mg Seroxat

• 20:00 - 23:30 – watch TV (music festival coverage) – anxiety 0/10; depression 0/10

• 23:30 – shower  – anxiety 0/10; depression 0/10

• 23:45 – in bed, deep breathing exercises and meditation audio – anxiety 0/10; depression 0/10

• (30 June 2019) 01:30(?) – sleep

• Neck / collar bone skin issues: 8/10 – still spreading downwards, itchy and tingly.

• Very oily facial skin. Large tender pimple on right cheek.

 

Sunday 30 June 2019 – day 19 of menstrual cycle

• 06:50 – wake, jumbled, racing, intrusive thoughts and panic symptoms, jittery, breathless, don't want to get up – anxiety 7/10; depression 6/10

• 07:10 – take 100mg magnesium citrate, deep breathing exercises

• 07:30 - 08:45 – read celebrity gossip which doesn't lift my mood but does distract – anxiety 5/10; depression 6/10

• 08:45 - 11:45 – lightly sleep, waking a couple of times

• 11:55 – bowl of low-sugar granola and skimmed milk, 300ml (10 fl oz) orange juice

• 12:10 – yellow diarrhoea

• 12:30 - 13:30 – shower, wash hair and do makeup – anxiety 4/10; depression 6/10

• 13:35 – multigrain low-GI crisps

• 13:35 – take 7mg Seroxat, 2000 IU vitamin D3, 200mg magnesium citrate, half a multivitamin/mineral tablet

• 13:40 - 15:50 – I drive to / visit partner's parents, with partner – anxiety 4/10; depression 6/10

• 14:20 – weak black tea with milk and small piece of homemade ginger cake

• 15:15 - 16:10 – I drive to parents, feel sad, miss my former car, keep comparing new car to it and other, better cars on the road – anxiety 4/10; depression 7/10

• 17:00 – mum's dinner of homemade vegetarian pizza and salad, one 330ml (11 fl oz) can of sugar-free orange Fanta – anxiety 4/10; depression 6/10

• 17:30 – lower intestinal cramps and suppressed flatulence

• 17:50 – small, solid bowel movement with straining

• 18:15 - 19:00 – barefooted in garden with mum looking at her plants, uncomfortable existential thoughts and images of my parents dying – anxiety 7/10; depression 7/10

• 19:00 - 19:15 – stay in garden alone, deep breathing – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 19:30 - 20:00 – I drive home with partner, feel sad and tense – anxiety 6/10; depression 7/10

• 19:45 – one 330ml (11 fl oz) can of sugar-free orange Fanta

• 20:05 – probiotic yoghurt and 250ml (8 fl oz) orange juice

• 20:05 – take 0.72mg Seroxat

• 20:10 - 23:10 – watch TV

• 21:00 - 22:00 – watch The Handmaid's Tale. Feel uncomfortable and agitated – anxiety 7/10; depression 7/10

• 23:30 – take 100mg magnesium citrate – and 2mg loperamide for morning diarrhoea

• (1 July 2019) 00:30(?) – sleep

• Neck / collar bone skin issues: 8/10 – still now spreading to my right, itchy and tingly.

 

Monday 1 July 2019 – day 20 of menstrual cycle

• 06:30 – short wakeup, don’t remember feelings or symptoms

• 07:45 – wake, jumbled, racing, intrusive thoughts and panic symptoms, jittery, breathless, don't want to get up – anxiety 7/10; depression 6/10

• 08:00 - 10:45 – lightly sleep, but with jumbled, racing intrusive thoughts, suicidal images and panic symptoms, jittery, breathless, just want to go to sleep and not wake up, exhausted – anxiety 8/10; depression 9/10

• 11:00 – housework – anxiety 6/10; depression 9/10

• 11:30 – breakfast bar and one 330ml (11 fl oz) can Pepsi Max cherry – probably shouldn’t have caffeine but I feel exhausted

• 11:30 – paperwork and admin, difficult to concentrate one any one thing – anxiety 5/10; depression 9/10

• 13:15 – update my intro thread – anxiety 5/10; depression 8/10

• 13:40 – lunch of chicken / tabouleh salad and salt ‘n’ vinegar potato crisps, 250ml (8 fl oz) orange juice

• 14:00 – take 7mg Seroxat, 2000 IU vitamin D3, 200mg magnesium citrate, half a multivitamin/mineral tablet

• 14:05 - 15:45 – on and off SA website a lot – anxiety 6/10; depression 8/10

• 16:00 – feel very down and unmotivated, and very hot and uncomfortable – anxiety 6/10; depression 10/10

• 16:15 - 16:45 – go upstairs to dim / cool bedroom to do deep breathing exercise – anxiety 6/10; depression 10/10

• 16:50(?) - 18:15 – sleep, then wake in panic and to same feelings – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 18:20 - 18:50 – update symptom tracker from paper notes – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 19:00 – partner phones to say he's on way home, I start crying – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 19:10 - 20:00 housework – feel agitated – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 20:00 – dinner of pasta, tomato and vegetable sauce and salad, can't eat it all

• 20:15 – take 0.72mg Seroxat

• 20:15 – watch TV and feel inner agitation, envious of happy healthy people – anxiety 9/10; depression 10/10

• 20:30 – have probiotic yoghurt

• 20:30 - 23:15 watch TV (comedy) – still hard to concentrate or relax – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 23:20 – come upstairs for shower but feel too unwell – hot, heart racing, dry gagging, pelvic / lower tummy pain

• 23:30 – take 200mg magnesium citrate

• 23:45 – take 10mg propranolol

• (2 July 2019) 01:30(?) – sleep

• Neck / collar bone skin issues: 8/10 – still now spreading in all directions, itchy and tingly.

• Really bad day with extreme symptoms.

 

Tuesday 2 July 2019 – day 21 of menstrual cycle

• 05:30 – short wakeup, don’t remember feelings or symptoms

• 07:45 – wake fully after nightmare. Can't face another day of this. Extreme racing, jumbled, intrusive thoughts. Inner trembling and restlessness. Cramp/tingling in arms from fist clenching. Dry gagging and nausea – anxiety 10/10; depression 10/10

• 08:30 – uncontrollable intense crying, feel exhausted afterwards – anxiety 10/10; depression 10/10

• 08:40 - 09:45 – sleep. Wake up feeling marginally calmer – anxiety 9/10; depression 10/10

• 09:50 – check work emails and update these notes – anxiety 9/10; depression 10/10

• 10:30 – text mum, start crying – anxiety 9/10; depression 10/10

• 10:40 – runny yellow bowel movement

• 10:45 - 11:30 – housework, keep thinking about taking loads of propranolol – anxiety 9/10; depression 10/10

• 11:30 – bowl of low sugar granola and skimmed milk

• 11:45 - 12:00 – cool shower, feel a little calmer and less agitated – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 12:00 - 13:30 – freelance work – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 13:30 - 13:45 – lunch of chicken tabouleh salad, rye crackers and Cheddar cheese, one 330ml (11 fl oz) can Pepsi Max cherry

• 13:45 – take 7mg Seroxat, 2000 IU vitamin D3, 200mg magnesium citrate, half a multivitamin/mineral tablet

• 14:00 – probiotic yoghurt and nectarine

• 14:15 - 15:10, shower, get ready for, then drive to, work – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 15:15 - 17:30 – part-time tutoring job – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 15:30 – weak black tea and milk

• 17:30 - 18:15 – lower stomach cramps and suppressed flatulence

• 17:30 - 18:15 – drive colleague home, talk in car for 10 minutes, I start crying – anxiety 6/10; depression 9/10

• 18:20 – home; explosive yellow diarrhoea

• 18:30 - 19:45 – housework – anxiety 6/10; depression 7/10

• 19:50 – dinner of stir fried vegetables, chicken and noodles – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 20:05 – take 0.72mg Seroxat

• 20:10 – 23:10 – watch TV, feel slightly better than earlier in day – anxiety 4/10; depression 6/10

• 21:00 – feel sleepy, but resist urge to go too bed too early

• 23:40 – take 200mg magnesium citrate and 4mg loperamide

• 23:45 – deep breathing and progressive muscle relaxation exercises while listening to meditation track

• (3 July 2019) 01:30(?) sleep

• Neck / collar bone skin issues: 8/10 – still now spreading in all directions, itchy and tingly.

• All evening: lower stomach cramps and flatulence.

 

Wednesday 3 July 2019 – day 22 of menstrual cycle

• 04:20 – wake shortly, don’t remember symptoms

• 08:00 – wake more fully with racing, jumbled thoughts – do deep breathing exercise – anxiety 9/10; depression 10/10

• 08:40 - 09:55 – sleep lightly / intermittently. More racing, jumbled thoughts, perhaps it is hypnagogia? Inner trembling, arm cramps from clenching fists, waves of panic – anxiety 9/10; depression 10/10

• 09:55 – wake fully, sit up, dry gagging, nausea, itchy across top half of body, shaking, sense of terror – anxiety 10/10; depression 10/10

• 10:00 – update my symptoms notes

• 10:15 – bowl of low-sugar granola and skimmed milk, feel slightly better

• 10:30 – housework, feel dizzy, weak, exhausted, light sensitivity – anxiety 10/10; depression 10/10

• 10:50 – feel awful, lie down in dark bedroom, cuddle cat

• 11:00(?) - 12:15 – sleep intermittently, waves of panic and guilt for not doing work – anxiety 10/10; depression 10/10

• 12:20 - 13:00 – housework, struggle with symptoms and procrastinate

• 13:00 – 14:00 – shower, makeup, get dressed and drive to cafe next to part-time job, to work in change of scenery – anxiety 8/10; depression 10/10

• 14:00 – lunch of chicken and pesto baguette, cheese ‘n’ onion potato crisps, weak black tea with milk

• 14:12 – take 7mg Seroxat, 2000 IU vitamin D3, 200mg magnesium citrate, half a multivitamin/mineral tablet

• 14:15 – 15:10 – freelance work, keys on computer not working properly – anxiety 7/10; depression – 9/10

• 15:15 - 17:30 – part-time tutoring job – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 15:15 – chamomile tea

• 17:30 - 18:10 – drive colleague home and talk in car outside her house, have a giggle but still feel bad inside, have lower stomach cramps – anxiety 5/10; depression 7/10

• 18:20 – home, solid bowel movement

• 18:25 - 18:45 – housework and update these notes – feel miserable, and that life is pointless – anxiety 7/10; depression – 10/10

• 18:45 - 20:00 – freelance work – feel calmer, but miserable, and that life is pointless – anxiety 6/10; depression – 10/10

• 20:00 – dinner of chicken pie, kale and baby sweetcorn, followed by probiotic yoghurt

• 20:20 – take 0.72mg Seroxat

• 20:25 – 23:20 – freelance work, dreading going to bed to have wake-up symptoms – anxiety 6/10; depression 9/10

• 23:40 – take 150mg aspirin to try to reduce cortisol awakening response

• (4 July 2019) 01:00(?) Sleep

• Neck / collar bone skin issues: 8/10 – still now spreading in all directions, itchy and tingly.

• All evening: lower stomach cramps and flatulence, but not as bad as previous night.

[Longroadhome]

Hi Anna how’s it going ?

thinking of you x 

just st work . Notice your symptoms not as bad when working , mine are the same . 

[Sassenach]

Hi Anna

 

Sorry you are having a tough time.

Do you snack between meals?

 

Sass

[Altostrata]

The diarrhea stopped?

 

Do you always talk to your parents in the morning?

 

As I said before, I think you might be having breakthrough symptoms from Paxil wearing off overnight. I would not recommend more Paxil because it appears you might be allergic to it.

 

On 6/27/2019 at 8:51 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Was this attributed to fatty liver? I don't know anything about that condition, but I believe elevated ALT indicates other types of liver damage, such as an adverse drug reaction.

 

As I've explained a couple of times, it could be you're having difficulty at this stage of your paroxetine taper because the drug is being metabolized more quickly. If you take a drug with a longer half-life, such as fluoxetine or citalopram, you may not need as high a dosage. 

 

Because drugs differ in their effect, switching from one to another need not be a dosage equivalent. You can always increase the dosage if you feel it's not high enough.

 

You might add 0.1mg fluoxetine or citalopram to your nighttime Paxil dose. If your early morning symptoms improve, it probably will be because you have enough SSRI in you overnight. This would indicate starting a crossover to fluoxetine.

 

As long as you're taking Paxil, you'll have the itching, if it's an allergy to the drug. This may also be causing your abnormal liver test results. I hope you are not also allergic to fluoxetine.

 

That's my best guess about your situation.

[Sarahbarah]

Hello Anna,

 

I don't say much, but I do read your posts and think of you often.

 

I see you are taking magnesium citrate, and I wonder if this has something to do with your diarrhea. Magnesium citrate is a laxative. You might consider switching to a different type of magnesium to see if it helps.

 

Me? Still doing a very slow taper. I get symptoms similar to yours when I do a drop, but at least for now, the unpleasantness only lasts about a week.

 

Although it's difficult to believe, this really will pass.

 

Love to you,

Sarah

[DeterminedAnna]

18 hours ago, Altostrata said:

The diarrhea stopped?

 

Do you always talk to your parents in the morning?

 

As I said before, I think you might be having breakthrough symptoms from Paxil wearing off overnight. I would not recommend more Paxil because it appears you might be allergic to it.

 

 

You might add 0.1mg fluoxetine or citalopram to your nighttime Paxil dose. If your early morning symptoms improve, it probably will be because you have enough SSRI in you overnight. This would indicate starting a crossover to fluoxetine.

 

As long as you're taking Paxil, you'll have the itching, if it's an allergy to the drug. This may also be causing your abnormal liver test results. I hope you are not also allergic to fluoxetine.

 

That's my best guess about your situation.

Hi Alto,

 

Many thanks for your reply.

 

The diarrhoea – I didn't think it stopped based on my notes. But I now realise that diarrhoea might also be a matter of frequency and not just consistency. I generally have one BM a day and it has been very loose for the past six months (with a few exceptions when I take loperamide). Does this mean I've been wrong in describing it as 'diarrhoea' all along?

 

I don't always talk to my folks in the morning, I mostly text them. Why do you ask? On that day, my mum called me and it would worry her if I didn't call back.

 

With regards to your suggestion, I completely agree with your logic, but I really really would rather not introduce new, unknown, drugs.

 

As I take my lunchtime Seroxat dose as 3ml (6mg) in one (5ml) syringe and 0.5ml (1mg) in another (1ml) syringe, perhaps I could swap the 0.5ml (1mg) portion with my evening Seroxat dose of 0.36ml (0.72mg), to get slightly more in the evening, so:

• Lunchtime: 6.72mg, as 3ml and 0.36ml
• Evening: 1mg, as 0.5ml 

This way I'm not increasing my overall daily dose.

 

I don't know how this will play out in the long run when I resume my taper, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it. Right now, I just want to see a continued block of stabilisation – I'm not expecting to be super happy or completely symptom-free, but just no major swings either way. This week has been extremely tough.

 

Having said that, I feel like last night and today I am going back into a window.... HURRAH!

 

Could be a total coincidence but yesterday evening I started taking inositol, having read loads about it, including the SA thread on it. I have started with a very low daily dose of 500mg (many online sources describe people taking huge amounts, such as 18g a day).  I took 250mg in two separate doses a few hours apart yesterday evening. And for the whole evening, my mind was clear and quiet with none of the constant ruminations. And it has been today, since waking up.

 

I'm very much aware of the theme in SA that people find things work for a while, then they stop working. So I'll keep tabs.

 

Thank you once again for sharing your experience and advice. I keep saying it, but this site has given me more help for my health in six months, than the medical establishment has throughout my whole life.

[DeterminedAnna]

On 7/4/2019 at 3:02 PM, Longroadhome said:

Hi Anna how’s it going ?

thinking of you x 

just st work . Notice your symptoms not as bad when working , mine are the same . 

Hey LRH,

 

Thank you so much. Yes, we have many similarities. I wish I could do my part-time job more! I'm trying to find something similar to do over the summer holidays, as like you my symptoms soften when I'm working. I'm going to look at voluntary jobs...

 

How are you doing? xx

[DeterminedAnna]

On 7/4/2019 at 3:02 PM, Longroadhome said:

Hi Anna how’s it going ?

thinking of you x 

just st work . Notice your symptoms not as bad when working , mine are the same . 

PS Love your new profile pic!

[DeterminedAnna]

22 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Anna

 

Sorry you are having a tough time.

Do you snack between meals?

 

Sass

Hi Sass,

 

Thanks for stopping by, how's the new job going? How are you?

 

I don't snack between meals. I'm overweight as it is! One benefit of going through withdrawal is my appetite has come right down.

 

(But sometimes, i might have a handful of nuts if I'm feeling shaky).

 

Why do you ask?

 

Anna x

 

 

[DeterminedAnna]

11 hours ago, Sarahbarah said:

Hello Anna,

 

I don't say much, but I do read your posts and think of you often.

 

I see you are taking magnesium citrate, and I wonder if this has something to do with your diarrhea. Magnesium citrate is a laxative. You might consider switching to a different type of magnesium to see if it helps.

 

Me? Still doing a very slow taper. I get symptoms similar to yours when I do a drop, but at least for now, the unpleasantness only lasts about a week.

 

Although it's difficult to believe, this really will pass.

 

Love to you,

Sarah

Hello Sarah,

 

Lovely to hear from you. It was you who first suggested I split my Seroxat doses, which I've been doing since early May. I believe it has helped, so BIG thank you. It was a little post from you at that time, but it made a BIG impact. The evening dose might need further tweaking (as you'll see above in my comments to Alto), but we'll see...

 

Thanks for the tip about the magnesium. I stopped it completely for a time in March and it made no difference. So as magnesium is so important, I'm sticking with it. But I might try a different form of magnesium in the future, so who knows, perhaps another Sarah-Barah-suggestion will help me again.

 

Well done on the slow taper. No really, well done. I suspect I might not have got into such problems if I'd gone more slowly and gently and paid more attention to my health all the way down. I know the 10% taper is the standard advice, but I'm seeing a lot of people on this site who have to go slower with smaller drops. I now think I'm one of those people. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

 

I see you've got down to 14mg – WOW! This is about a THIRD of what you were taking back in 1997 for all those years. So you have already got a MASSIVE TWO THIRDS of it behind you.

 

One tip for you, based on my own experience – if you notice any symptoms getting really bad, and worsening, from day four after your drop, go back to your previous dose promptly and hold there for longer. The fourth / fifth day is when the new dose reaches a steady state in your body. Don't leave it in the hope that the symptoms will abate because it could destabilise your brain and CNS. And if you do return to your previous dose promptly – say within a week of your drop – I believe it won't count as an updose (which itself can destabilise).

 

I'm sure there's better explanations of this on the site, but it's something I've learned and latched onto over the past six months, and I will be adopting when I resume my taper.

 

How are you right now? How's the taper been going?

Thank you so much for saying hello X

Edited July 5, 2019 by DeterminedAnna
Clarity

[Sassenach]

Hi Anna

 

Got head fog today. Have just posted about Rachel on my thread and knew I had forgotten someone . Its there if you want to see.

 

I ask about the snacking because you are breaking two important rules my liver consultant drilled into me.

You should eat breakfast by 9am.

Never go more than 4 hours without eating.

I tried the whole losing weight as a reply, her answer was pragmatic as always, subtract from your main meals.

She is about fifty, thin as a latt, and fit as a lop as we yorkshire folk say.

You only need to eat half a banana, half a scone, even one plain biscuit ( RichT 😕)

Your liver needs something to work on at all times during the day.

You are not really being fair to it on a morning, awwwwwwww poor liver

Give it try.

 

Sass

[Altostrata]

Anna, you can of course experiment with dividing your Paxil dose as you wish. If I were you, I'd keep careful notes throughout.

 

Taking magnesium can cause loose stools. It's easy to test this -- simply take less magnesium and see what happens. (Put this in your notes.)

 

The stress of withdrawal can also cause gut upsets.

 

I asked whether you always contacted your mother at a particular time of day to see if this affects your symptom pattern.

[DeterminedAnna]

On 7/5/2019 at 5:42 PM, Sassenach said:

Hi Anna

 

Got head fog today. Have just posted about Rachel on my thread and knew I had forgotten someone . Its there if you want to see.

 

I ask about the snacking because you are breaking two important rules my liver consultant drilled into me.

You should eat breakfast by 9am.

Never go more than 4 hours without eating.

I tried the whole losing weight as a reply, her answer was pragmatic as always, subtract from your main meals.

She is about fifty, thin as a latt, and fit as a lop as we yorkshire folk say.

You only need to eat half a banana, half a scone, even one plain biscuit ( RichT 😕)

Your liver needs something to work on at all times during the day.

You are not really being fair to it on a morning, awwwwwwww poor liver

Give it try.

 

Sass

Hey Sass,

 

Thanks for the tips. I have seen Rachel's thread and I think she's amazing. And I think you guys have been amazing for her.

 

I've been having a few nuts through the night when I wake up in the early hours, so I don't go so long without food.

 

I like the 'thin as a latt, and fit as a lop' saying but I had to look it up to understand. Apparently a latt is a 'lathe' and a 'lop' is some kind of flea. Does that sound right?

 

How are you? How's the head fog?

[Sassenach]

Hi Anna

 

Good to hear you are having a window.

Two questions answered in a onner, got bad head fog and temperature dysregulation today. Sitting here freezing.

You are still eating breakfast far too late

You got the yorkshire bit dead on.

Hope you get another window tomorrow.

Catch you later.

 

Sass

[DeterminedAnna]

Today's update: extremely depressed, life feels so grey and sludgy.

 

I thought I was going into a window on Thursday evening (4 July). But it was very short lived.

 

And I thought the inositol (I took 500mg on Thursday evening) was the reason for the start of the window.

 

So stupidly I took 1600mg of inositol on Friday (5 July) thinking it was magic. Bad idea. For the first time in ages, I could not fall asleep within an hour (it's waking up early and with horrendous symptoms that is my problem). I wasn't lying there with racing thoughts – my mind was unusually empty. I just couldn't sleep. And I didn't get to sleep until 3.30am on Saturday (6 July).

 

Spent most of Saturday (until 2pm) in bed in a very strange haze wanting to just sleep (and able to, even after 8 hours sleep), waking with a splitting headache and sweating profusely, despite the fact the weather had cooled down. Felt weird, like I was in a different world, all day Saturday. A feeling like nothing I've experienced during withdrawal. On that weird day, I reverted to the dose of inositol I intended to take – back to the 500mg.

 

Sunday – only took 250mg inositol. The inositol 'side effects' (if that's what they were) from the previous day were a little better, but I was very very down, tearful, with suicidal images flashing in my head every few hours, and anhedonic. We went for a walk in a place I've loved all my life and all I could do was cry.

 

Inositol definitely has had an effect, but I don't like it for me. I suspect it's somehow good for staying asleep once you get asleep, and that might be why people like it, or report it being beneficial for anxiety. Or maybe it's fine for someone who's not in withdrawal and whose head hasn't been messed up by SSRIs.

 

Today, Monday 8 July, I've not taken any inositol. I've done a full day's freelance work, but I feel utterly miserable and it's taken me ages to do something that in the past would have taken a quarter of the time.

 

I'm parking my experiment with inositol (and I'm removing it from my signature). I had high hopes, so I'm disappointed. Perhaps just being hopeful was enough to lift my mood on Thursday when the delivery of inositol arrived.

 

(The other thing that appealed to me about inositol is the reports of it being beneficial for polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). I was diagnosed with this in 2008(?) after missing three periods and an ultrasound revealed ovarian cysts. Frankly, I feel like Seroxat brought this on, as there is no family history of PCOS and after I tried to stop Seroxat in 2004, and then not knowing I was in withdrawal returned to it on a higher dose, my weight ballooned.

 

In the end, I didn't take anything for the PCOS, but lost weight, which seemed to bring my periods back. However, I still think I have a tendency towards PCOS – I still get mild acne, have very oily skin and I'm sure my withdrawal symptoms are ramped up in the two weeks prior to my period. I think i'm hormonally very sensitive.  I've also felt a lot mentally better on a low-carb diet, which is the only time I lose weight and my skin clears up. I don't know... I'm thinking out loud...)

 

I don't know how much longer I can live in this state of withdrawal. I'm amazed that people tough it out for years. I'm seriously considering going back onto a full dose of Seroxat and numbing myself into functioning oblivion. I can take physical symptoms of withdrawal. I can't take the never-ending, overwhelming depression and anxiety.

 

I  have completely given up on the idea of starting a family.

[Longroadhome]

3 minutes ago, DeterminedAnna said:

Today's update: extremely depressed, life feels so grey and sludgy.

 

I thought I was going into a window on Thursday evening (4 July). But it was very short lived.

 

And I thought the inositol (I took 500mg on Thursday evening) was the reason for the start of the window.

 

So stupidly I took 1600mg of inositol on Friday (5 July) thinking it was magic. Bad idea. For the first time in ages, I could not fall asleep within an hour (it's waking up early and with horrendous symptoms that is my problem). I wasn't lying there with racing thoughts – my mind was unusually empty. I just couldn't sleep. And I didn't get to sleep until 3.30am on Saturday (6 July).

 

Spent most of Saturday (until 2pm) in bed in a very strange haze wanting to just sleep (and able to, even after 8 hours sleep), waking with a splitting headache and sweating profusely, despite the fact the weather had cooled down. Felt weird, like I was in a different world, all day Saturday. A feeling like nothing I've experienced during withdrawal. On that weird day, I reverted to the dose of inositol I intended to take – back to the 500mg.

 

Sunday – only took 250mg inositol. The inositol 'side effects' (if that's what they were) from the previous day were a little better, but I was very very down, tearful, with suicidal images flashing in my head every few hours, and anhedonic. We went for a walk in a place I've loved all my life and all I could do was cry.

 

Inositol definitely has had an effect, but I don't like it for me. I suspect it's somehow good for staying asleep once you get asleep, and that might be why people like it, or report it being beneficial for anxiety. Or maybe it's fine for someone who's not in withdrawal and whose head hasn't been messed up by SSRIs.

 

Today, Monday 8 July, I've not taken any inositol. I've done a full day's freelance work, but I feel utterly miserable and it's taken me ages to do something that in the past would have taken a quarter of the time.

 

I'm parking my experiment with inositol (and I'm removing it from my signature). I had high hopes, so I'm disappointed. Perhaps just being hopeful was enough to lift my mood on Thursday when the delivery of inositol arrived.

 

(The other thing that appealed to me about inositol is the reports of it being beneficial for polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). I was diagnosed with this in 2008(?) after missing three periods and an ultrasound revealed ovarian cysts. Frankly, I feel like Seroxat brought this on, as there is no family history of PCOS and after I tried to stop Seroxat in 2004, and then not knowing I was in withdrawal returned to it on a higher dose, my weight ballooned.

 

In the end, I didn't take anything for the PCOS, but lost weight, which seemed to bring my periods back. However, I still think I have a tendency towards PCOS – I still get mild acne, have very oily skin and I'm sure my withdrawal symptoms are ramped up in the two weeks prior to my period. I think i'm hormonally very sensitive.  I've also felt a lot mentally better on a low-carb diet, which is the only time I lose weight and my skin clears up. I don't know... I'm thinking out loud...)

 

I don't know how much longer I can live in this state of withdrawal. I'm amazed that people tough it out for years. I'm seriously considering going back onto a full dose of Seroxat and numbing myself into functioning oblivion. I can take physical symptoms of withdrawal. I can't take the never-ending, overwhelming depression and anxiety.

 

I  have completely given up on the idea of starting a family.

Anna do not give up on the idea of having a baby . My daughter is in labour today and later on tonight I will be holding my first grandchild . A little girl. 

You will truly have this yourself one day . Don’t give up. Yes it can take a couple of years but it’s not going to be as bad as it is now . Progress happens but we have to be patient .

30% better than where we are now is liveable with. And from there after what we’ve been through will be much more copable.

Stay strong you are half way through the year from Christmas when you crashed and you have coped . You’re  a strong woman stay focused and on your goals . You will recover fully if you do . 

You WILL be a mum. Don’t deny yourself the privilege. 

[Longroadhome]

1 minute ago, Longroadhome said:

Anna do not give up on the idea of having a baby . My daughter is in labour today and later on tonight I will be holding my first grandchild . A little girl. 

You will truly have this yourself one day . Don’t give up. Yes it can take a couple of years but it’s not going to be as bad as it is now . Progress happens but we have to be patient .

30% better than where we are now is liveable with. And from there after what we’ve been through will be much more copable.

Stay strong you are half way through the year from Christmas when you crashed and you have coped . You’re  a strong woman stay focused and on your goals . You will recover fully if you do . 

You WILL be a mum. Don’t deny yourself the privilege. 

And by going back on the full dose it’s going to still take months to stabilise.