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BfromNJ: mirtazapine taper

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brassmonkey

If the average weight of the powder from the new capsules is the same as the old then there should be no problem sticking with the 214mgpw.

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BfromNJ

@brassmonkey

@manymoretodays

 

Okay I have maybe a dumb question.  I have 50 mg seroquels that weigh 152 pill weight.  I take half for 25 mg (.076 pill weight).   

 

I also have 25 mg pills that I dont take because I want to finish up my 50s.  The 25 ones weigh .100 roughly.  Why do they weigh so much more than half a 50?  Shouldn't it be the same .076?  

 

Same manufacturer.  Shouldn't a 25 mg pill weigh the same as half a 50?  

 

Will this mess me up when I do take them or is this maybe because of filler and coating?  

 

I am wondering because I'm low on my 50s and I only have uneven halves left, so I am going to start taking the whole 25s.  And I also wanted to maybe consider a reduction in the seroquel next, holding on the gabapentin a bit.   Will this mess me up?  Should I start taking the 25s and then reduce with those? 

 

Long story short-  shouldn't a 25 mg pill weigh the same as half a 50?  And if it weighs more am I getting more med than I want or is it maybe just fillers and coating?  

32 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

 

 

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ChessieCat

They probably have more filler in them.  You need to try each tablet dose of the drug individually.  Treat the information separately.

 

The 25mg tablet weight:  x mgpw and contain 25mgai.

 

The 50mg tablet weight:  y mgpw and contain 50mgai.

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brassmonkey

Actually it's a really smart question and shows that you're paying attention to the details of your taper.

 

Any manufacturer selling prescription drugs in the USA is required to list them in the Drug Registration  and Listing System with the FDA.  Each pill must be uniquely identifiable by it's shape, size, weight, color and markings.  In order to make a pill unique sometimes the weight is what is adjusted.  So a 25mgai pill from manufacturer X could weight 100mgpw while the same pill from manufacturer Y could weigh 150mgpw.  This would hold true with differences in strength as you are seeing between the 25mgai and the 50mgai pills from the same manufacturer.

 

What it comes down to is, that a 25mgai pill will have 25mgai no matter who manufactured it or what it actually weighs.  Same for a 50mgai pill.  So if you break a 50mgai pill exactly in half you will get the equivalent of 2 x 25mgai pills.

 

Because of the differences in fillers between the 25mgai and the 50mgai pills it would be a good idea to do a cross taper between them.  Then once stable on the 25mgai pills you could do your taper from there.

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BfromNJ
7 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Actually it's a really smart question and shows that you're paying attention to the details of your taper.

 

Any manufacturer selling prescription drugs in the USA is required to list them in the Drug Registration  and Listing System with the FDA.  Each pill must be uniquely identifiable by it's shape, size, weight, color and markings.  In order to make a pill unique sometimes the weight is what is adjusted.  So a 25mgai pill from manufacturer X could weight 100mgpw while the same pill from manufacturer Y could weigh 150mgpw.  This would hold true with differences in strength as you are seeing between the 25mgai and the 50mgai pills from the same manufacturer.

 

What it comes down to is, that a 25mgai pill will have 25mgai no matter who manufactured it or what it actually weighs.  Same for a 50mgai pill.  So if you break a 50mgai pill exactly in half you will get the equivalent of 2 x 25mgai pills.

 

Because of the differences in fillers between the 25mgai and the 50mgai pills it would be a good idea to do a cross taper between them.  Then once stable on the 25mgai pills you could do your taper from there.

okay i see.   hopefully i have enough of the old to do a cross taper.  Not sure how to even do that, without now having to crush both old and new tablets I guess.   Good thing is that it is the same manufacturer.  However, I am not sure how that will be once i have to refill the 25s, since I am  now on new insurance in a new state. and in looking at the drug list for my new insurance, medicaid, they cover quietipine furmate. right now  mine just says quietipine.  I have no idea what the difference is.   

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BfromNJ

 

 

my current meds and doses:

 

5:30 am  (or so) - 164 mg (.214 pw) of gabapentin

7:30 am (or so) -  probiotic (cheap one, waiting for my better azo womens health to arrive)

                            - 2 azo urinary tract cleanse and protect chewables 

12:30 pm           - luvox 18.75 mg (.096 pw) 

                            - 164 mg (.214 pw) gabapentin

8:30 pm             - 164 mg (.214 pw) gabapentin

10:00 pm          - 25 mg seroquel

 

 

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brassmonkey

quietipine furmate is the extended release version, while plain quietipine is the regular version.

 

We have instructions on how to do a crosstaper around here somewhere,I just can't lay my hands on the ATM.

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BfromNJ

@manymoretodays

@brassmonkey

 

or anyone else who happens to see this.  lol.

 

Ive posted this again below because I was hoping someone could review it for me.  Im just thinking about my gabapentin taper im doing now and wondering if I am right in continueing to do so or if I should maybe make another reduction in the fluvoximine or start the seroquel. I ask this because it looking at this, it seems like the worst interactions are between seroquel and fluvoximine, since fluvoximine can actually raise the levels of seroquel in the blood stream.  I am wondering if that is giving me more symptoms (such as my urinary issues).  I did a drop of fluvoximine of 25% back in April.  Did a big drop because i was not on it long and adverse reactions.   If i did decide to reduce either one of these, which would make more sense?    Do others "take turns" persay with what they reduce?  maybe doing one for a while, then reducing another?  is there any harm in this?  it is at least reducing overall drug load.    Or how many on here have done a multidrug taper?  is it a matter of reducing each one by 10% or is there more involved with that?   I guess what im wondering is if you all were on what i was on what would you do?     Im feeling okay overall, besides the urinary issues, which are very difficult.  if it wasnt for that, i would be okay. 

 

interactions between yoru drugs

Moderate

gabapentin  fluvoxaMINE

Applies to: gabapentin, fluvoxamine

Using gabapentin together with fluvoxaMINE may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate

gabapentin  QUEtiapine

Applies to: gabapentin, quetiapine

Using gabapentin together with QUEtiapine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate

fluvoxaMINE  QUEtiapine

Applies to: fluvoxamine, quetiapine

FluvoxaMINE may increase the blood levels of QUEtiapine. You may be more likely to experience side effects such as dizziness; drowsiness; dry mouth; constipation; increased appetite; weight gain; increased blood sugar and cholesterol or triglyceride levels; cognitive and motor impairment; involuntary muscle movements involving the face, tongue, or other parts of the body; difficulty swallowing; low blood pressure (especially at the start of treatment or after a dose increase); blood pressure increases (reported in children and teenagers); irregular heart rhythm; and seizures. Let your doctor know if your condition changes or you experience increased side effects. You may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Edited by ChessieCat
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brassmonkey

We don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time.  Trying to keep track of which one is causing what symptom becomes a real problem even if you try to do the tapers in rotation.  We have a number of members who are  tapering several drugs at the same time, but it can get really messy.

 

All three of the drugs your are taking list urinary problems as side effects, and their interactions would increase the problem.  My guess would be to start with the gabapentin.

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BfromNJ
1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

We don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time.  Trying to keep track of which one is causing what symptom becomes a real problem even if you try to do the tapers in rotation.  We have a number of members who are  tapering several drugs at the same time, but it can get really messy.

 

All three of the drugs your are taking list urinary problems as side effects, and their interactions would increase the problem.  My guess would be to start with the gabapentin.

Or continue the gabapentin I guess.  I've started it already.  Thanks brassmonkey.  Sorry if I was long winded or repeated myself.  I've just at my waist end with these urinary troubles.    I'm so misrerable..  😥  I cant really find relief anyway or distract myself.    And if it's not med related, my specialist isn't until 10/9.  Gotta love medicaid.  🙄

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BfromNJ

Daily logs for 3 days.  

 

9/8
5:30- woke- slept ok. last night was 2nd night of seroquel 25 mg whole tablet , instead of taking half of the 50 mg. same manufacturer
 -164 mg gabapentin
- upon awakening bad urinary urgency and frequency- painful 
7:30- probiotic azo women's feminine balance (new)
11:00-overcone with very depressed and anxious feelings.
 upset very much over urinary issues bc they keep me from doing things.  
11:30- urinary symptoms somewhat better
12:30- internal tremor/pulsing/shaking very prominent in foot, leg genitals
12:30- 164 mg gabapentin and 18.75 mg luvox
2:00- urinary issues get alot worse again- persisted through out rest of day
7-10- urinary issues a little better
8:30- 164 mg gabapentin 
10:00 - 25 mg seroquel (1/2 of a 50 mg , old pills not new 25 mg, same manufacturer)

feel asleep ok.  woke up 3:30 am.  restless sleep after.  

 

9/9
3:30- woke up.  restless sleep after . urinary urgency made it difficult to get back to sleep. 
6:30- up.
- urinary urgengy and frequency start right away.
- 164 mg gabapentin.
10:30- still urgency and frequency.  very painful.  worse when seated and burns.  - continues all day
12:30- 164 mg gabapentin and 18.75 mg luvox
- urinary frequency and urgency continues.  
4:30- internal tremor in left foot, leg 
8:30- 164 mg gabapentin
10:00- 25 mg seroquel 

troubling symptoms pretty much all day is the urinary frequency and urgency.   also, feeling of awful pressure in the abdomen and pain.  

I've become down and anxious the last two days.  my urinary issues are very hard to live with.  I'm so uncomfortable.  hard to even sit, walk, etc.  

 

9/10
6:30- 164 mg gabapentin
- no probiotic (was causing bloating I think 
- urinary frequency and urgency start 
12:30- 164 mg gabapentin and 18.75 mg luvox
- urinary frequency and urgency continue, but not as bad today.  not as much pressure and discomfort.
8:30- 164 mg gabapentin
10:00- 25 mg seroquel ( old ones - the 1/2 of 50 tablet, last few nights)
10:30- bed.  tinnitus I noticed was horrible.  difficult time falling asleep.  very restless,  anxious, sweaty, nausea 

notes -  urinary issues were a bit better today. 
tinnitus at bedtime was horrible.  I dont know how it didnt bother me earlier.   very unusual that I cannot fall asleep, but had extreme anxiousness over tinnitus , was hot, nauseous.   felt very off and wrong. 

back to taking half of the 50 mg seroquel instead of the whole 25 tablet (same manufacturer).  but I have been crushing and weighing it because the halves I have now left are uneven and I want to make sure I am getting equal amount.  I didnt want to waste them.  been doing this two nights now.  

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ShiningLight

Aw B, sorry re your wave and urinary problems! So unpleasant. 😣

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BfromNJ
7 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

Aw B, sorry re your wave and urinary problems! So unpleasant. 😣

Yeah sure is. I read you seem to be doing well.  That's awesome.  

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BfromNJ

So what I've noticed about me (or so it seems)  is that any withdraw or problems I have with a drop seem to not show up until the  2nd and 3rd weeks.  I have to be cognizant of this because it then seems I am not ready to drop again by that next week, I need to level out more.  I dont know why this is, since I'm so sensitive I would have thought I'd see it within the 1st week .   It just doesnt seem to hit me right away.  I really wanted to drop again next week but I may hold a bit.  

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composter

Hi B, I'm holding too, after going through a wave during my taper. I'm right there with you on the tinnitus, abdominal pains, and urinary problems (for me it's urinary hesitancy). But I'm starting to see the clouds part and the wave passing. 

 

Our individual bodies are so unique. Good that you're starting to find a pattern to be aware of for your taper. The most important thing to learn from this process is to listen to your body and trust your intuition. Godspeed to you.

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ShiningLight
On 9/11/2019 at 1:59 PM, BfromNJ said:

So what I've noticed about me (or so it seems)  is that any withdraw or problems I have with a drop seem to not show up until the  2nd and 3rd weeks.  

 

It's good that you figured this out. Holding sounds like a good idea. I'm hoping these urinary symptoms will go away or at least ease up, the way things come and go in wd.

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BfromNJ

@brassmonkey

@manymoretodays

 

so i need some help with math.  

 

I have new gabapentin capsules - new manufacturer.  couldnt be avoided, since i moved to another state and have new insurance.  

 

So, I have done two drops already with the old , 8.3% and 10%.  

 

Old (in pill weight)

starting pill weight -  .260

first drop pill weight  - .238

second drop pill weight -.214 (what i take now)

 

New (in pill weight)

starting pill weight - .254

 

So, i figure with my new 10% reduction this week, i will have dropped a total of .068 in pill weight, based on my old pill.   So, .254 - .068 = .186.  I figure this is my new pill weight for this time around.  Am i correct?  

 

Or am I looking too much into it and dont even have to worry about this?  do i just go off my original numbers?  does it matter when they are capsules that i am opening and emptying anyway?  I think I will stick with the .186.   It seems to be like a 3% difference, since based on math of the old pills, my new dose would have been .193.  

 

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manymoretodays

I found the old calculations ^

 

Okay old capsules:

260 mgpw : 200 mgai

first drop was 8.5% of a taper

238 mgpw:  183 mgai

next drop of 10% from above

214 mgpw: 164.7 mgai (and I'll round up to 165 mgai)

Which is your present dose of  165 mgai

 

New capsules

starting pw is:

254 mgpw : 200 mgai?  This would be the weight of 2 100 mgai(dose strength).  Reading out on your scale .254. 

Is this correct?

 

So with the new capsules contents weighing a bit less, here's what I get for your present dose of 165 mgai:

254 mgpw: 200 mgai

210 mgpw: 165 mgai

 

 

Current dose of 165 mgai with your new capsules weighs 210 mgpw

(on your scale you'll see .210, as the scale is in grams)

 

Next drop of 10%

I multiplied both the weight(mgpw) 210 mgpw  X .90= 189 mgpw

and the dose,

165 mgai X .90=  148.5 mgai

189mgpw: 148.5 mgai   

9 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

So, i figure with my new 10% reduction this week, i will have dropped a total of .068 in pill weight, based on my old pill.   So, .254 - .068 = .186.  I figure this is my new pill weight for this time around.  Am i correct?  

 I got 189 mgpw based on your new pill/capsule contents weight, you got 186 mgpw

 

So......I'm seeing a difference from your old to new.  I would go with the weights of the new, on your next drop, and also when you switch over to the new manufacturer too.   It sounds like you may have already made the switch?  

 

Did you follow?  And double check me too.  Kind of late here and my eyes are bugging out a bit now, after all my editing corrections......B)

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
new dose calculations moved to the right place, added quote

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BfromNJ
6 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

I found the old calculations ^

 

Okay old capsules:

260 mgpw : 200 mgai

first drop was 8.5% of a taper

238 mgpw:  183 mgai

next drop of 10% from above

214 mgpw: 164.7 mgai (and I'll round up to 165 mgai)

Which is your present dose of  165 mgai

 

New capsules

starting pw is:

254 mgpw : 200 mgai?  This would be the weight of 2 100 mgai(dose strength).  Reading out on your scale .254. 

Is this correct?

 

So with the new capsules contents weighing a bit less, here's what I get for your present dose of 165 mgai:

254 mgpw: 200 mgai

210 mgpw: 165 mgai

 

 

Current dose of 165 mgai with your new capsules weighs 210 mgpw

(on your scale you'll see .210, as the scale is in grams)

 

Next drop of 10%

I multiplied both the weight(mgpw) 210 mgpw  X .90= 189 mgpw

and the dose,

165 mgai X .90=  148.5 mgai

189mgpw: 148.5 mgai   

 I got 189 mgpw based on your new pill/capsule contents weight, you got 186 mgpw

 

So......I'm seeing a difference from your old to new.  I would go with the weights of the new, on your next drop, and also when you switch over to the new manufacturer too.   It sounds like you may have already made the switch?  

 

Did you follow?  And double check me too.  Kind of late here and my eyes are bugging out a bit now, after all my editing corrections......B)

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt 

 

I am totally confused. Lol.  But thank you so much for doing this.   Sorry for the buggy eyes.  Lol.  You are so kind to do this.   I thought I had the math correct.  But I was close!  I find it easier when calculating i dont talk mg, lol just the pill weight on the scale.  So i should go with the .186 right?   

 

Also, what i did start to do today was cross taper my old and new, before i drop.  Since I take now .214, I am taking .107 pw of old and .107 pw of new.   Since I have a few of my old ones left.  Or should it have been .107 of old and .105 of new?  Or is this really a negligible amount?   

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manymoretodays

 

5 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

I am totally confused. Lol.  But thank you so much for doing this.   Sorry for the buggy eyes.  Lol.  You are so kind to do this.   I thought I had the math correct.  But I was close!  I find it easier when calculating i dont talk mg, lol just the pill weight on the scale.  So i should go with the .186 right?   

 

Also, what i did start to do today was cross taper my old and new, before i drop.  Since I take now .214, I am taking .107 pw of old and .107 pw of new.   Since I have a few of my old ones left.  Or should it have been .107 of old and .105 of new?  Or is this really a negligible amount?   

 

Okay, and good you are doing a cross-taper then now.  We went over that on the previous page, I believe and decided you would do 1/2 old and 1/2 new for 3-7 days, rather than the usual formula......for practical reasons and ease. https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/19756-bfromnj-mirtazapine-taper/?do=findComment&comment=442687

^ this was regarding your quietipine.  Same principle applies here, though.

 

Gabapentin:

I would go with the .210 pill weight for your new capsules, which for each 1/2 dose.......yes, you are correct, that would be .105 of new, in pill weight.

Then when you get to using all new capsule contents for your doses, just HOLD for another week, or longer, if you are noticing WD symptoms.  No reason you have to rush on into another taper.

Hoping you'll be able to use the new manufactured pills/capsules for a long time now.....so the pause in tapering, will be insignificant after some time passes.

Basically, you can treat it like a dose change event. 

 

Quetiapine:

And as you've alluded to,  changing forms of quetiapine too, recently, a HOLD is wise, before further tapering of gabapentin.

Best is one dose change event at a time.   You've had to do 2, due to new prescriptions, and manufacturing changes in both.  Which, from my understanding, you could not avoid or control.  Let's let any potential bumps settle.

 

Gabapentin:

When you are crossed over, your new pill weight will be .210

Giving you a dose strength of 165 mgai, which you take twice a day........total daily dose at present is 330 mgai/day.

 

We need you to understand and report current doses in mgai, so look it all over, both the quoted post and explanations, in the meantime.

An update can be done to your signature as well, right here  Account settings, signature

It looks like you stopped updating back on the 5th of June, when you were at 494 mg/day or 494 mgai.  Presently, you are crossing over(you don't have to put that in the signature, there's not room) and are taking 330 mgai/day.  Note the date when you did that last reduction.  And your current dose of 330 mgai.

 

So.......when you do your next taper, I think you should go with .189 , as that will be a 10% reduction with your new pills/capsules.  So, no, I don't want you to go with .186.

On 9/6/2019 at 1:00 PM, brassmonkey said:

If the average weight of the powder from the new capsules is the same as the old then there should be no problem sticking with the 214mgpw.

Your average weight differs with the new and the old.  It's not the same.  Best to go with the new weight of 210 mgpw.

I like accuracy as much as possible, and I think your body will appreciate it too.

 

Best, and L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited by manymoretodays
bolding, clarity

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BfromNJ
1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

would go with the .210 pill weight for your new capsules, which for each 1/2 dose.......yes, you are correct, that would be .105 of new, in pill weight.

Then when you get to using all new capsule contents for your doses, just HOLD for another week, or longer, if you are noticing WD symptoms.  No reason you have to rush on into another taper.

Hoping you'll be able to use the new manufactured pills/capsules for a long time now.....so the pause in tapering, will be insignificant after some time passes.

Basically, you can treat it like a dose change event. 

Okay so for the half old, I do .105 as well?  So .105 old and .105 new?  I did wrong today then and used .107 old (since its half of .214) and .105 of new (since its half of .210) .  I took two doses already today.   I only have three days of old capsules anyway.  

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BfromNJ
1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

When you are crossed over, your new pill weight will be .210

Giving you a dose strength of 165 mgai, which you take twice a day........total daily dose at present is 330 mgai/day.

 

We need you to understand and report current doses in mgai, so look it all over, both the quoted post and explanations, in the meantime.

An update can be done to your signature as well, right here  Account settings, signature

It looks like you stopped updating back on the 5th of June, when you were at 494 mg/day or 494 mgai.  Presently, you are crossing over(you don't have to put that in the signature, there's not room) and are taking 330 mgai/day.  Note the date when you did that last reduction.  And your current dose of 330 mgai.

 

No it's not 330 mg a day.  Its 494 mg a day.   I updated signature to be a bit more clear, I hope ..lol.   

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BfromNJ
1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Quetiapine:

And as you've alluded to,  changing forms of quetiapine too, recently, a HOLD is wise, before further tapering of gabapentin.

Best is one dose change event at a time.   You've had to do 2, due to new prescriptions, and manufacturing changes in both.  Which, from my understanding, you could not avoid or control.  Let's let any potential bumps settle.

I am not going to even think about this right now.  Lol.  My head hurts.  And I still have like 6 weeks or more of my old quietipine left.  So I do not need to change this for a bit now.  And I'm going to double check with pharmacy to see if they can get the same maufacturer. But the formula is different, its fumarate. I'm told by them it's still immediate release,  just different formula.  Something to do with salts.  

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BfromNJ

@manymoretodays

 

I think my math is a bit off still. 

 

Here's a simple recap:

.254 is new pill weight average per dose for new formula (starting).  

 

Old was .260.  I'm now at .214.  Which is a total reduction of .046 weight. 

 

So if I take .046 off of .254, my new formula current dose comes to .208.  Is that the right way to figure or no?  

 

 

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manymoretodays
1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

No it's not 330 mg a day.  Its 494 mg a day.   I updated signature to be a bit more clear, I hope ..lol.   

 

Yes, I forgot to multiply the 165 mgai by 3 doses.  I had only multiplied by 2 doses.

I got 495 mgai when I rounded up.

So okay, and you made the reduction to that on the 21 of August.

 

Good then, on no changes with the quetiapine for now. 

 

1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

I think my math is a bit off still. 

 

Here's a simple recap:

.254 is new pill weight average per dose for new formula (starting).  

 

Old was .260.  I'm now at .214.  Which is a total reduction of .046 weight. 

 

 

.254 is new pill weight average per dose for new formula (starting).  

 .254 must be

pill weight for 2 capsules?  Each capsule contains 100 mgai.  So the contents of 2 would contain 200mgai. 

mgai just means the dose strength is all.  Just like what is listed on your prescription label.

And then you got an average weight per 2 capsules of .254.  With the old you had an average weight of .260.  Which when you move the decimal over 3 places, you then get 254 mgpw.  mgpw again, is the pill weight in milligrams of 2 capsules.  Your scale has the decimal point, because it reads out in grams.

 

I'm just working out the dose strength and then pill weight for your new capsules.  Taking into account the dose that you are currently on. 

You are not so much off with your maths, just doing it differently.  You can't just reduce by the same amount that you did with your old capsules, with your new.

1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

So if I take .046 off of .254, my new formula current dose comes to .208.  Is that the right way to figure or no?  

No.  I'd go with the .210.  Or 210 mgpw as expressed below. 

8 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

New capsules

starting pw is:

254 mgpw : 200 mgai?  This would be the weight of 2 100 mgai(dose strength).  Reading out on your scale .254. 

Is this correct?

 

So with the new capsules contents weighing a bit less, here's what I get for your present dose of 165 mgai:

254 mgpw: 200 mgai

210 mgpw: 165 mgai

 

I came up with .210 for a weight with your new capsules per dose.  I expressed it as 210mgpw.  The : sign is for equivalency.  210mgpw: 165 mgai.  And that's for one dose only.

165mgai multiplied by 3 doses per day is 495 mgai.  I think that I did not multiply for all 3 doses must have confused you, as well as getting used to the terms.....mgpw and mgai.

Never mind the spelling of quetiapine.

 

I often take it all to paper, as well.  To double check and for further understanding.  Maybe you can do that?

 

1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

I am not going to even think about this right now.  Lol.  My head hurts.  And I still have like 6 weeks or more of my old quietipine left.  So I do not need to change this for a bit now.  And I'm going to double check with pharmacy to see if they can get the same maufacturer. But the formula is different, its fumarate. I'm told by them it's still immediate release,  just different formula.  Something to do with salts.  

 

Oh man.....now you tell me!  My gosh, I'm swamped today as it is.  However, I appreciate the thank you.  And you're welcome.  I may bow on out of further calculations for you though.....if you can't spend more than an hour or less, attempting to understand.  Or go back and retrieve prior posts to study and look at yourself.  It takes some time for me too BfromNJ.  And compliments on trying to get this all worked out before you actually do anything.  I mean that's great.  It really is.

 

Have a great week. 

And further edit to add a mild apology, as I just did the same......and probably replied before I should have.  A lot going on today, here, on the ground, and just reacted to your reacting/replying so fast, and did the same.  Fingers crossed I can take care of a few priority situations on the ground here, before any further responses.  Thanks for understanding, if you do.  I put at least an hour into each of those responses.....and then only to find out that you might change tracks anyway and check with the pharmacy......which was something I thought you had done weeks ago.

 

((((( for us both)))))

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays

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BfromNJ
56 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

 

Yes, I forgot to multiply the 165 mgai by 3 doses.  I had only multiplied by 2 doses.

I got 495 mgai when I rounded up.

So okay, and you made the reduction to that on the 21 of August.

 

Good then, on no changes with the quetiapine for now. 

 

 

.254 is new pill weight average per dose for new formula (starting).  

 .254 must be

pill weight for 2 capsules?  Each capsule contains 100 mgai.  So the contents of 2 would contain 200mgai. 

mgai just means the dose strength is all.  Just like what is listed on your prescription label.

And then you got an average weight per 2 capsules of .254.  With the old you had an average weight of .260.  Which when you move the decimal over 3 places, you then get 254 mgpw.  mgpw again, is the pill weight in milligrams of 2 capsules.  Your scale has the decimal point, because it reads out in grams.

 

I'm just working out the dose strength and then pill weight for your new capsules.  Taking into account the dose that you are currently on. 

You are not so much off with your maths, just doing it differently.  You can't just reduce by the same amount that you did with your old capsules, with your new.

No.  I'd go with the .210.  Or 210 mgpw as expressed below. 

 

I came up with .210 for a weight with your new capsules per dose.  I expressed it as 210mgpw.  The : sign is for equivalency.  210mgpw: 165 mgai.  And that's for one dose only.

165mgai multiplied by 3 doses per day is 495 mgai.  I think that I did not multiply for all 3 doses must have confused you, as well as getting used to the terms.....mgpw and mgai.

Never mind the spelling of quetiapine.

 

I often take it all to paper, as well.  To double check and for further understanding.  Maybe you can do that?

 

 

Oh man.....now you tell me!  My gosh, I'm swamped today as it is.  However, I appreciate the thank you.  And you're welcome.  I may bow on out of further calculations for you though.....if you can't spend more than an hour or less, attempting to understand.  Or go back and retrieve prior posts to study and look at yourself.  It takes some time for me too BfromNJ.  And compliments on trying to get this all worked out before you actually do anything.  I mean that's great.  It really is.

 

Have a great week. 

And further edit to add a mild apology, as I just did the same......and probably replied before I should have.  A lot going on today, here, on the ground, and just reacted to your reacting/replying so fast, and did the same.  Fingers crossed I can take care of a few priority situations on the ground here, before any further responses.  Thanks for understanding, if you do.  I put at least an hour into each of those responses.....and then only to find out that you might change tracks anyway and check with the pharmacy......which was something I thought you had done weeks ago.

 

((((( for us both)))))

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

Oh no.  Please I didnt mean to upset you. I wasnt changing tracks.   What I meant was I was just going to check and see if they COULD get the same maufacturer of quietipine,  just in case.   They couldn't for the gabapentin.    But all I meant was that I dont need to think about it at this very moment. The only reason I have so much left is that I have decided to take the 25 mg I have, I wasnt going to because originally I was taking half of a 50.  Never mind that it's too much right now.   I'm sorry for all of that.   Truly sorry.  You have been a tremendous help and support for me. 😁  and if you only knew how much time I do spend on numbers.   Lol.  My parents say I should be a pharmacist.   Lol.  

 

And okay on the .210!  That's my magic gabapentin number.    So for tonight's dose with my crossover its .105 of new and .107 of old.  Since new is .210 and old is .214.  Once I'm on all new I will be using .210.  Right? 

 

 

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BfromNJ

Hello. I have a question regarding gabapentin. thought here would be best place for it, since its a general question.  

 

I thought I read here or somewhere else that since gabapentin is metabolized by the kidneys and not the liver, that when tapering it, it will not cause paradoxyl effects of other meds (in my case, luvox and seroquel), because the other meds are metabolized by the liver.  Am i correct in this?  or did i imagine it?  lol.  

 

 

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ChessieCat

From https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00996

 

Quote

 

Gabapentin, an analog of GABA, is used as an anticonvulsant to treat partial seizures, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), and painful neuropathies. Potential uses include monotherapy of refractory partial seizure disorders, and treatment of spasticity in multiple sclerosis, tremor. mood disorders, and attenuation of disruptive behaviors in dementia. Gabapentin has high lipid solubility, is not metabolized by the liver, has no protein binding, and doesn't possess the usual drug interactions.

 

 

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ChessieCat

This information was already in the information provided in the post made by Alto in the gabapentin topic.  I have added emphasis to it so that it is easier to see.

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BfromNJ
11 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

This information was already in the information provided in the post made by Alto in the gabapentin topic.  I have added emphasis to it so that it is easier to see.

Thank you.  i  missed it. so i am reading it correctly right?

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ShiningLight

I thought paradoxical reactions weren't neccesarily from the drugs themselves, but from a stressed out nervous system that can interpret even a "brake" as a threat? 

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ChessieCat
2 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

I thought paradoxical reactions weren't neccesarily from the drugs themselves, but from a stressed out nervous system that can interpret even a "brake" as a threat? 

 

From wiki:

 

A paradoxical reaction or paradoxical effect is an effect of a chemical substance, mostly a medical drug, opposite to the effect which would normally be expected. An example of a paradoxical reaction is pain caused by a pain relief medication.

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manymoretodays
8 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

 I'm sorry for all of that.   Truly sorry.  You have been a tremendous help and support for me. 😁  and if you only knew how much time I do spend on numbers.   Lol.  My parents say I should be a pharmacist.   Lol.  

 

And okay on the .210!  That's my magic gabapentin number.    So for tonight's dose with my crossover its .105 of new and .107 of old.  Since new is .210 and old is .214.  Once I'm on all new I will be using .210.  Right? 

 

Okay.  Good to know.  Ordinarily I too, like spending time on numbers.......as well as enjoy it.  And on all the pharmacology.  And I like supporting/educating/empowering others to move toward a good life worth living.

Just so crazy busy for me right now and my biorhythms have shifted too!  Just saying......as my usual early mornings here, are near impossible.  And by this time of the day, I'm beat.  I'll figure out something doable soon, for regular time to devote here. 

 

And yes.  Once you are on all new you will be using .210 or 210 mgpw for each of your 3 doses. 

Total daily dose then will be 495 mgai.

Once you've settled into that, at that point......on to the next taper.

Unless......circumstances and actions on your part keep you on the same manufacturer.  If that proves to be the case, then you can do a taper when you are assured of that.

 

Nitey nite termite.

L, P, H, and G, and just another Monday for this mod,

mmt

 

 

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BfromNJ

 

Daily log 9/16-

 

things to note- 
-started taking new maufacturer of gabapentin today 50/50 crosstaper of old and new
-for past few nights, started taking a 25 mg seroquel instead of half of 50.  its same manufacturer.

 

6:00 - 164 mg gabapentin
- mild urinary symptoms the morning
12:30- 164 mg gabapentin  and 18.75 mg luvox
2:00- legs feel activated and funny.                      --short of breath                                                         --fatigue 
- tingling in side of head
- no bothersome urinary symptoms
7:00- activated legs continue.   
 -tingling in various parts of body. 
 - internal tremor/pulsing in left foot, leg, groin.  I'm beginning in wonder if this is related to that nerve that starts at the ankle area?  it is also known to affect the bladder?  
8:30- 164 mg gabapentin 
10:00- 25 mg seroquel 
  -had twitches and jerks when falling asleep.  
  - slept thru night

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BfromNJ
9 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

Okay.  Good to know.  Ordinarily I too, like spending time on numbers.......as well as enjoy it.  And on all the pharmacology.  And I like supporting/educating/empowering others to move toward a good life worth living.

Just so crazy busy for me right now and my biorhythms have shifted too!  Just saying......as my usual early mornings here, are near impossible.  And by this time of the day, I'm beat.  I'll figure out something doable soon, for regular time to devote here. 

 

And yes.  Once you are on all new you will be using .210 or 210 mgpw for each of your 3 doses. 

Total daily dose then will be 495 mgai.

Once you've settled into that, at that point......on to the next taper.

Unless......circumstances and actions on your part keep you on the same manufacturer.  If that proves to be the case, then you can do a taper when you are assured of that.

 

Nitey nite termite.

L, P, H, and G, and just another Monday for this mod,

mmt

 

 

what may interfere with my next taper is the seroquel change.  although i think i can fit one more reduction in before then.   I am going to do my research on that.  talk to the pharmacist and see if they can either get me the regular version, not the fumarate, or in the least the same manufacturer .  Im not too confident in that, but its worth asking.  I am going to also ask what the difference is between the quietipine and quietipine fumarate.   I know its something to do with salts.   both are immediate release. 

 

You have yourself i wonderful day, you deserve it! :) 

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ShiningLight

Hey B, I came across some info that I thought may be helpful to you. Not sure if it's been suggested to you yet. Saw on @WiggleIt's thread that pelvic floor physical therapist specialist was helpful for her urinary withdrawal related symptoms.

 

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