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BfromNJ

BfromNJ: mirtazapine taper

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Shep
50 minutes ago, BfromNJ said:

I dont think I was making  "random complaints ".  I thought my thread was a place where I could post about my ups and downs, observations, etc..    And talking about having a window was not a complaint.  It was an observation that I do have days that are relatively symptom free.    

 

I think Alto was referring to your previous post:

 

12 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

the only thing throwing me off is that I do have days where I can go whole day and lay down at night and feel good.  So that is throwing me off.  If it is too much gaba, wouldn't I feel crappy every day?  Of course I'm grateful for these days.  These windows.  

 

It's unclear if you wish to taper or if you have follow up questions before you feel comfortable in proceeding. It sounds like you do have a question, but you may have answered it yourself (by mentioning "windows"), but it's not clear. That's what I interpret as "random".  It's a pattern that happens periodically in your thread. 

 

Your observations are fine. It's the way you word it in the form of a question that's confusing to the staff. 

 

Are you comfortable in proceeding with tapering the gabapentin?  Alto's main point was about needing a drug and symptoms journal if you need more information. That way we can offer you targeted advice based on your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs. 

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BfromNJ
26 minutes ago, Maca44 said:

Posting about my ups and downs helps me even if no one replies, also I get alot out of reading other posts of the same, like this one.

 

 

Thank you I agree.   

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BfromNJ
18 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

I think Alto was referring to your previous post:

 

 

It's unclear if you wish to taper or if you have follow up questions before you feel comfortable in proceeding. It sounds like you do have a question, but you may have answered it yourself (by mentioning "windows"), but it's not clear. That's what I interpret as "random".  It's a pattern that happens periodically in your thread. 

 

Your observations are fine. It's the way you word it in the form of a question that's confusing to the staff. 

 

Are you comfortable in proceeding with tapering the gabapentin?  Alto's main point was about needing a drug and symptoms journal if you need more information. That way we can offer you targeted advice based on your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs. 

I understand Shep.  I guess my question is - if a drug is causing adverse reactions how is it possible to have days when there are no such reactions?  Can this happen? That was all.  

 

And yes I do wish to taper.  My intention will be after i return from a memorial day trip.   And it will be probably 5% to start.   Baby steps this time.  Do you think its wise to wait till after I get back from travelling? 

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Shep
6 minutes ago, BfromNJ said:

I guess my question is - if a drug is causing adverse reactions how is it possible to have days when there are no such reactions?  Can this happen?

 

It really depends on how bad the adverse reaction is in proportion to how good the window is.

 

You could have a minor headache during a window day and still have a good day. But if you're already exhausted and run down during a wave, that minor headache could be the straw that breaks the camels back, so to speak, during the wave. 

 

So it's really hard to know for sure. The windows and waves pattern makes tapering part science and part art. You could try a small gabapentin reduction and if you feel better, that would speak to an adverse reaction. 

 

8 minutes ago, BfromNJ said:

And yes I do wish to taper.  My intention will be after i return from a memorial day trip.   And it will be probably 5% to start.   Baby steps this time.  Do you think its wise to wait till after I get back from travelling? 

 

I would wait until after you're home. Many people go off their restrictive diets and consume more sugar and carbs during holiday trips. Sleep may also get interrupted if you're in an unfamiliar environment such as a hotel. Also, even good stress can still be taxing on your nervous system. 

 

Please remember to avoid alcohol and caffeine, as they can be major temptations over holiday trips. 

 

Hold where you're at and hopefully you'll have a window to enjoy for your trip. 

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BfromNJ
32 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

It really depends on how bad the adverse reaction is in proportion to how good the window is.

 

You could have a minor headache during a window day and still have a good day. But if you're already exhausted and run down during a wave, that minor headache could be the straw that breaks the camels back, so to speak, during the wave. 

 

So it's really hard to know for sure. The windows and waves pattern makes tapering part science and part art. You could try a small gabapentin reduction and if you feel better, that would speak to an adverse reaction. 

 

 

I would wait until after you're home. Many people go off their restrictive diets and consume more sugar and carbs during holiday trips. Sleep may also get interrupted if you're in an unfamiliar environment such as a hotel. Also, even good stress can still be taxing on your nervous system. 

 

Please remember to avoid alcohol and caffeine, as they can be major temptations over holiday trips. 

 

Hold where you're at and hopefully you'll have a window to enjoy for your trip. 

That is my plan.  And no booze for me I'm sober 9 years.  And no caffeine either.  

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BfromNJ

@Shep

 

So one question on the gabapentin taper. If I start at 5% the first time, then all goes well with that, could I jump to 10% the next one?  Is it bad to increase the percent of the cut?  should it remain consistant?  Im just wondering if the destablilizes a person.  I know I can always slow down, but I wasn't sure about going up higher is an okay thing to do or is a consistant percentage is better.  I would like to be able to up it if the 5% ends up being a no brainer (pardon the pun, lol).  

 

Also, im reading on liquid tapering and im so confused on how to do it.  I was thinking of doing this with gabapentin because I take 6 capsules a day, and cutting some out of each is a loooong process.  is there a link or information that explains this is a child like sense?  lol.    

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Altostrata
11 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

I guess my question is - if a drug is causing adverse reactions how is it possible to have days when there are no such reactions?  Can this happen? That was all.  

 

I can't answer you question unless I see daily symptom notes. Same with your initial reduction of gabapentin.

 

Yes, you can post your ups and downs in your Intro topic.

 

Let's make this a rule: If you want an answer to a question about your taper, you need to post daily notes. Otherwise, no answers from the staff, we'll assume you don't expect an answer.

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BfromNJ
38 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

I can't answer you question unless I see daily symptom notes. Same with your initial reduction of gabapentin.

 

Yes, you can post your ups and downs in your Intro topic.

 

Let's make this a rule: If you want an answer to a question about your taper, you need to post daily notes. Otherwise, no answers from the staff, we'll assume you don't expect an answer.

I just posted a question about my taper that I haven't started yet is that allowed?  Daily notes would not apply in this case.  Symptoms would not be relevant.   I didnt think I was doing anything wrong.  

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BfromNJ

Daily symptoms/schedule

5/14

Slept good

5:45- up .  No symptoms.  Normal for morning.

- 200 mg gaba and probiotic

7:00- noticed during meditation that left foot pulsing/,trembling 

- clear headed and feeling good all morning.   Some waves of ringing/buzzing and some zaps.  Nothing terrible.

12:00- lunch

12:30- 200 mg gaba and 18.75 mg luvox

Still notice some waves of ringing.  Mood still good and feeling okay.

-tired in afternoon, foot and up leg trembling/pulsing.  Very odd sensation.  

4:00- gym .  

6:00- dinner

8:00- ringing increases in intensity.  Like a hum.  Very annoying.  Made worse by TV, etc

Turned off TV.   It felt better some.  

8:30- 200 mg gabapentin. 

9:00- 25 mg seroquel 

 

Main symptom is still the ringing/ buzzing, but having much better days with it.  It is aggravated by noise.  I do have hyperacusous.   

 

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Shep
11 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

5/14

Slept good

5:45- up .  No symptoms.  Normal for morning.

- 200 mg gaba and probiotic

7:00- noticed during meditation that left foot pulsing/,trembling 

 

Thanks for the drug and symptoms notes. This verifies what you and Alto were discussing about the gabapentin building up in your system. Looks like the only time you are symptom free is prior to taking the gabapentin. 

 

23 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

That is my plan.  And no booze for me I'm sober 9 years.  And no caffeine either.  

 

Sounds like an excellent plan. 

 

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BfromNJ
12 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Thanks for the drug and symptoms notes. This verifies what you and Alto were discussing about the gabapentin building up in your system. Looks like the only time you are symptom free is prior to taking the gabapentin. 

 

 

Sounds like an excellent plan. 

 

Although shep this morning I woke up with symptoms.  Prior to taking my morning meds.  This does happen sometimes.  I'm buzzing/ringing like crazy. And anxiety was up.   I woke up earlier than alarm and felt it coming on.  Maybe this is a wave due to luvox drop.  I'm confused.  

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Shep
7 minutes ago, BfromNJ said:

Although shep this morning I woke up with symptoms.  Prior to taking my morning meds.  This does happen sometimes.  I'm buzzing/ringing like crazy. And anxiety was up.   I woke up earlier than alarm and felt it coming on.  Maybe this is a wave due to luvox drop.  I'm confused.  

 

It could be a wave from the Luvox or just your nervous system trying to adjust and acclimate from prior changes in drugs from months ago. 

 

Do you feel you're at Withdrawal Normal? 

 

WDNormal

 

This is where you ideally want to be before making another reduction. 

 

How much earlier did you wake up prior to the alarm? Did you sleep well other than an early awakening? 

 

 

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BfromNJ
49 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

It could be a wave from the Luvox or just your nervous system trying to adjust and acclimate from prior changes in drugs from months ago. 

 

Do you feel you're at Withdrawal Normal? 

 

WDNormal

 

This is where you ideally want to be before making another reduction. 

 

How much earlier did you wake up prior to the alarm? Did you sleep well other than an early awakening? 

 

 

So do I want to be at wd normal even if I wil be reducing a different med now?  And yes i slept well.  It was like 45 minutes before. 

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Altostrata
15 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

I do have hyperacusous. 

 

Did you always have this?

 

Does the ringing and buzzing get worse after your morning gabapentin?

 

15 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

Some waves of ringing/buzzing and some zaps.  Nothing terrible.

 

What are these zaps, when did they start?

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BfromNJ
1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

Did you always have this?

 

Does the ringing and buzzing get worse after your morning gabapentin?

 

 

What are these zaps, when did they start?

 

I didn't always have the hyperacousus.  this started around late  January.   it almost seems like my ringing competes to be heard over other noises. 

 

the zaps - Its this weird tingling sensation I get in the back of my throat, or like a zinging in my head. I always thought maybe it was brain zaps?   I think I have had this since February.  

 

 I am having a hard time determining if it gets worse after the morning gabapentin if I already wake up with i.   but I can say that today, I woke up with it, but mild, where I normally do not wake up with it. It will usually come on later.   I took my meds.   it seemed tolerable through out the morning, but it was there.  it has grown in intensity as today has worn on.   I took my afternoon meds at 12:30, which is 200 mg gabapentin and 18.75 mg luvox.    

 

Normally when I wake up okay, by the evening when I go to bed, its really bad.  it seems like it builds, but it is also quieter when I go to sleep so I am going to notice it more. 

 

I am having more days that I do not have this problem at all or very little, so I am hopeful that I am headed in the right direction.  :) 

 

One thing is for sure, regardless of how long or what first, I want these meds to go. 

 

 

 

 

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BfromNJ

 

Just some thought I wanted to get out .  

 

I rack my brain trying to figure out why I can have two good days in a row, then a crappy day.  I always feel like, this is it! im turning around.  But maybe I am because there are good days.   Then the overthinking comes in.  Did I go to hard at the gym the day before?  did I eat something I shouldn't have?  do I have a life stressor at play?   am I missing something?  one really can go crazy trying to figure it out.  there can be so many variables at play.  I think I need to remove the variables one at a time.  Maybe not eat that one item and see.  Then maybe not do that work out I did next time.   but in the end, I guess it just is what it is.  I really hate that saying and here I am using it.  lol.  

 

Its really something. 

 

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BfromNJ

For the mods.

 

Daily symptom and med entry:

 

5/15
- 5:15 up.  woke up earlier, like 4:30 and layed in bed.  bit of anxiety over an incident day before.  meditated to alleviate.  
- have symptoms-  ringing/buzzing in head bad this morning.  normally dont have in morning. 
- 200 mg gaba and probiotic. 
6:00 - breakfast- waffle and milk
12:30 - lunch - salad works salad
- 200 mg gaba and 18.75 mg luvoxg
6:30- dinner.  sushi.
8:00- 200 mg gaba
9:00- 25 mg seroquel

the ringing and buzzing persisted all day . 
terrible by bed time.

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BfromNJ

Ive been having few good days of windows.  yay.  Holding on taper right now till after return from weekend trip.  

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Maca44

Enjoy the Window 

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BfromNJ

@Shep

 

So I have a concern/question.  If I feel like I may be having interdosing withdrawal from my gabapentin, what happens when I start to taper?  I am not sure if this is the case, but I will be watching closely the next few days to see if I am seeing a pattern emerging or if its just a fluke. I think it may be a fluke, but I am concerned. 

 

but how does it generally go if you are tapering off a medication that you are also having interdosing withdrawal from?  its it just that much more unpleasant or as the drug load decreases does it actually help?  I can only see one way, which is through it if one wants off, as increasing to avoid the interdosing withdraw is out of the question.  do I hold off on reducing now and focus on my other med if I do find this is the case?

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Shep

The best way to handle interdose withdrawal is to split the drug into multiple doses taken throughout the day. 

 

You're taking gabapentin 3 times a day. When are you feeling interdose withdrawal? Does it go away when you take the next gabapentin dose? 

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BfromNJ
7 hours ago, Shep said:

The best way to handle interdose withdrawal is to split the drug into multiple doses taken throughout the day. 

 

You're taking gabapentin 3 times a day. When are you feeling interdose withdrawal? Does it go away when you take the next gabapentin dose? 

Hi shep.  I'm not even 100 percent on whether it is or not, but I'm already taking it three times a day.  So I cant change that. It may just be coincidental.   I'm trying to keep an eye on it.  I'm going to be starting to taper this one shortly 

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BfromNJ

Today I have started my gabapentin taper.   I am only doing 5% to start.   baby steps. :)   I hope for smooth sailing.  

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BfromNJ

@Shep

@ChessieCat

 

Help!    I normally take my luvox AD at 1:00 pm along with my gabapentin.  I took out what i thought was my luvox at 1 pm today and my gabpentin and took my pills.  But when i got home i noticed that I had my luvox dose still in the pill box .  Now i could swear that i took two pills at 1 pm, but i  maybe i did not?  But not thinking , i took this dose just now.  then i panicked thinking what if i had a double dose in my pill box by accident as i was filling it last night.   I tried to throw it up but it wont come up.  so im scared now that i took a double dose of luvox today, one at 12:30 pm and one at 4:30 pm.   but i cant be sure and i may have just not grabbed it earlier.  I know there is nothing i can do now about it, but im upset that i just messed myself up after i did so well with the large reduction i did on the luvox.  Is this just reversing everything?  :(    if I did take double by mistake, do I just resume my normal dose tomorrow?  have a just possibly reversed my taper of this med?  

 

I really cannot even be 100% sure i did take two doses.  

 

And i have just started my gabapentin taper today.    Im upset and scared that i messed up.  

 

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ChessieCat

I've just corrected the link in the previous post.

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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

cared now that i took a double dose of luvox today, one at 12:30 pm and one at 4:30 pm.   but i cant be sure and i may have just not grabbed it earlier.  I know there is nothing i can do now about it, but im upset that i just messed myself up after i did so well with the large reduction i did on the luvox.  Is this just reversing everything?  :(    if I did take double by mistake, do I just resume my normal dose tomorrow? 

 

My suggestion would be to take the Luvox 23 hours after your last dose and then bring if forward by 1 hour each day until you are back at your usual time.

 

Whatever you did, there is nothing that you can do about it.  Worrying about it is only going to add more stress.  It is what it is.  If you did double dose you might notice a difference for a few days.  If this happens just remind yourself that it may be because you took 2 doses.  Also remember that you may not have double dosed and it might be from the stress about the uncertainty.

 

Whatever you did, you will need to use non drug techniques to get through the next few days.  Try to stay as calm as possible.  You made a mistake.  We all make mistakes.  Getting upset and/or angry with yourself will only make things worse.

 

remembering-to-take-your-dose-reminder-ideas

 

 

 

 

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BfromNJ
1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

 

My suggestion would be to take the Luvox 23 hours after your last dose and then bring if forward by 1 hour each day until you are back at your usual time.

 

Whatever you did, there is nothing that you can do about it.  Worrying about it is only going to add more stress.  It is what it is.  If you did double dose you might notice a difference for a few days.  If this happens just remind yourself that it may be because you took 2 doses.  Also remember that you may not have double dosed and it might be from the stress about the uncertainty.

 

Whatever you did, you will need to use non drug techniques to get through the next few days.  Try to stay as calm as possible.  You made a mistake.  We all make mistakes.  Getting upset and/or angry with yourself will only make things worse.

 

remembering-to-take-your-dose-reminder-ideas

 

 

 

 

thanks Chessie.  I know i cant undo it, if i even did it to begin with. lol.  It just makes me feel like i undid my whole taper.  thats not true right?  I will even out again?  

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BfromNJ

@Shep

 

So this is one week of my 5% gabapentin taper.  so far so good it seems.    I know 5% is small, but I am being cautious.  Since my last drop with the luvox in April was a big 25%.   if all still goes well the remainder of the month, I may try for 7.5% next month.  Is it okay to increase the taper amount, or should I stick with a consistant 5%? 

 

I do seem to have some increased anxiety here and there.  but I have some life changes that may also contribute to that.    and my tinnitus seems to act up more, but I cant say for sure its from the reduction or coincidental.  Ill have a few good days, then a bad day with it, but pretty much every night at bedtime its intolerable anymore.  however recently it was discovered that I may have tmj disorder, which could be contributing to it.  so who knows for sure, meds or that. I will be seeing a specialist for it soon. 

 

 

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Shep
15 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

  Is it okay to increase the taper amount, or should I stick with a consistant 5%? 

 

It's best to let your symptoms guide you. You may need to periodically tweak your taper rate as you go, so keeping a journal of symptom notes either on paper or on a Word doc can be helpful. And then if you want feedback from the mods, please place it here on your thread. 

 

15 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

however recently it was discovered that I may have tmj disorder, which could be contributing to it.  so who knows for sure, meds or that. I will be seeing a specialist for it soon. 

 

Please see:

 

Facial tics, jaw, tongue muscle tension and pain, bruxism, teeth clenching, TMJ

 

Do you wear a night guard at night? If not, you may want to look into getting one when you see your dentist or other specialist. 

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BfromNJ
2 hours ago, Shep said:

 

It's best to let your symptoms guide you. You may need to periodically tweak your taper rate as you go, so keeping a journal of symptom notes either on paper or on a Word doc can be helpful. And then if you want feedback from the mods, please place it here on your thread. 

 

 

Please see:

 

Facial tics, jaw, tongue muscle tension and pain, bruxism, teeth clenching, TMJ

 

Do you wear a night guard at night? If not, you may want to look into getting one when you see your dentist or other specialist. 

I do wear one.  And I am seeing a specialist soon for the TMJ disorder.  I have it and my jaw is out of alignment.  two root canals this year have not helped matters either.  :( 

 

My boyfriend has told me that I seem to not be twitching and shaking so much at night now .   I think this is a side effect of the gabapentin.  Is it really possible that such a small amount of reduction could already be improving my side effects?  if so, this is a positive for me. :) 

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BfromNJ

@Shep

 

Ten days for me now on gabapentin taper 5%.     i was having alot of good days, felt pretty normal.  Yesterday started a bad day.  Increased anxiety, i feel a bit disconnected and dizzy, tinnitus ramped up.  I do have some things on my mind and a decision to make in life, so I am sure its factoring in.   and I am congested a bit as well in the sinuses, which could be playing into the disconnected, dizzy feeling.   

 

Its just amazing that such a small reduction can have effects, tells me really how strong and powerful these drugs are.  And how much doctors downplay it.   

 

I do hope i stablize since I was feeling better.   

 

The only thing I question is whether i should have just finished up tapering the luvox instead.  Because its a pain to have to make up two different medication capsules now.  but oh well.  I will deal with it.   

 

Still sleeping good due to the seroquel, thank goodness.  Because the tinnitus last night was unbearable.   

'

  

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