BfromNJ: mirtazapine taper

[brassmonkey]

Seeing that the half life of gabapentin is 5-7 hours it is quite possible that you are getting interdose withdrawal symptoms.  Because this has just started it seems to me that it could be the first signs of the drug starting to poopout,  It's also possible that this is just a wave and will pass in a few days.  Being alright over night would indicate that it is not interdose WD but rather something else. If it is poopout, then the only way out is down.  So proceeding with your taper is the best option.  Being nervous about starting a taper is quite common, I was scared to death when I started mine, but once it gets going things stabilize and smooth out.

[BfromNJ]

Today I have started my gabapentin taper.   I am only doing 5% to start.   baby steps.    I hope for smooth sailing.  

[BfromNJ]

@Shep

@ChessieCat

 

Help!    I normally take my luvox AD at 1:00 pm along with my gabapentin.  I took out what i thought was my luvox at 1 pm today and my gabpentin and took my pills.  But when i got home i noticed that I had my luvox dose still in the pill box .  Now i could swear that i took two pills at 1 pm, but i  maybe i did not?  But not thinking , i took this dose just now.  then i panicked thinking what if i had a double dose in my pill box by accident as i was filling it last night.   I tried to throw it up but it wont come up.  so im scared now that i took a double dose of luvox today, one at 12:30 pm and one at 4:30 pm.   but i cant be sure and i may have just not grabbed it earlier.  I know there is nothing i can do now about it, but im upset that i just messed myself up after i did so well with the large reduction i did on the luvox.  Is this just reversing everything?      if I did take double by mistake, do I just resume my normal dose tomorrow?  have a just possibly reversed my taper of this med?  

 

I really cannot even be 100% sure i did take two doses.  

 

And i have just started my gabapentin taper today.    Im upset and scared that i messed up.  

 

[ChessieCat]

I've merged your new topic to an existing topic:  hypnic-hypnagogic-jerks-when-falling-asleep

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by ChessieCat
corrected link

[ChessieCat]

I've just corrected the link in the previous post.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

cared now that i took a double dose of luvox today, one at 12:30 pm and one at 4:30 pm.   but i cant be sure and i may have just not grabbed it earlier.  I know there is nothing i can do now about it, but im upset that i just messed myself up after i did so well with the large reduction i did on the luvox.  Is this just reversing everything?      if I did take double by mistake, do I just resume my normal dose tomorrow? 

 

My suggestion would be to take the Luvox 23 hours after your last dose and then bring if forward by 1 hour each day until you are back at your usual time.

 

Whatever you did, there is nothing that you can do about it.  Worrying about it is only going to add more stress.  It is what it is.  If you did double dose you might notice a difference for a few days.  If this happens just remind yourself that it may be because you took 2 doses.  Also remember that you may not have double dosed and it might be from the stress about the uncertainty.

 

Whatever you did, you will need to use non drug techniques to get through the next few days.  Try to stay as calm as possible.  You made a mistake.  We all make mistakes.  Getting upset and/or angry with yourself will only make things worse.

 

remembering-to-take-your-dose-reminder-ideas

 

 

 

 

[BfromNJ]

1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

 

My suggestion would be to take the Luvox 23 hours after your last dose and then bring if forward by 1 hour each day until you are back at your usual time.

 

Whatever you did, there is nothing that you can do about it.  Worrying about it is only going to add more stress.  It is what it is.  If you did double dose you might notice a difference for a few days.  If this happens just remind yourself that it may be because you took 2 doses.  Also remember that you may not have double dosed and it might be from the stress about the uncertainty.

 

Whatever you did, you will need to use non drug techniques to get through the next few days.  Try to stay as calm as possible.  You made a mistake.  We all make mistakes.  Getting upset and/or angry with yourself will only make things worse.

 

remembering-to-take-your-dose-reminder-ideas

 

 

 

 

thanks Chessie.  I know i cant undo it, if i even did it to begin with. lol.  It just makes me feel like i undid my whole taper.  thats not true right?  I will even out again?  

[BfromNJ]

@Shep

 

So this is one week of my 5% gabapentin taper.  so far so good it seems.    I know 5% is small, but I am being cautious.  Since my last drop with the luvox in April was a big 25%.   if all still goes well the remainder of the month, I may try for 7.5% next month.  Is it okay to increase the taper amount, or should I stick with a consistant 5%? 

 

I do seem to have some increased anxiety here and there.  but I have some life changes that may also contribute to that.    and my tinnitus seems to act up more, but I cant say for sure its from the reduction or coincidental.  Ill have a few good days, then a bad day with it, but pretty much every night at bedtime its intolerable anymore.  however recently it was discovered that I may have tmj disorder, which could be contributing to it.  so who knows for sure, meds or that. I will be seeing a specialist for it soon. 

 

 

[Shep]

15 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

  Is it okay to increase the taper amount, or should I stick with a consistant 5%? 

 

It's best to let your symptoms guide you. You may need to periodically tweak your taper rate as you go, so keeping a journal of symptom notes either on paper or on a Word doc can be helpful. And then if you want feedback from the mods, please place it here on your thread. 

 

15 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

however recently it was discovered that I may have tmj disorder, which could be contributing to it.  so who knows for sure, meds or that. I will be seeing a specialist for it soon. 

 

Please see:

 

Facial tics, jaw, tongue muscle tension and pain, bruxism, teeth clenching, TMJ

 

Do you wear a night guard at night? If not, you may want to look into getting one when you see your dentist or other specialist. 

[BfromNJ]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

 

It's best to let your symptoms guide you. You may need to periodically tweak your taper rate as you go, so keeping a journal of symptom notes either on paper or on a Word doc can be helpful. And then if you want feedback from the mods, please place it here on your thread. 

 

 

Please see:

 

Facial tics, jaw, tongue muscle tension and pain, bruxism, teeth clenching, TMJ

 

Do you wear a night guard at night? If not, you may want to look into getting one when you see your dentist or other specialist. 

I do wear one.  And I am seeing a specialist soon for the TMJ disorder.  I have it and my jaw is out of alignment.  two root canals this year have not helped matters either.   

 

My boyfriend has told me that I seem to not be twitching and shaking so much at night now .   I think this is a side effect of the gabapentin.  Is it really possible that such a small amount of reduction could already be improving my side effects?  if so, this is a positive for me.  

[BfromNJ]

@Shep

 

Ten days for me now on gabapentin taper 5%.     i was having alot of good days, felt pretty normal.  Yesterday started a bad day.  Increased anxiety, i feel a bit disconnected and dizzy, tinnitus ramped up.  I do have some things on my mind and a decision to make in life, so I am sure its factoring in.   and I am congested a bit as well in the sinuses, which could be playing into the disconnected, dizzy feeling.   

 

Its just amazing that such a small reduction can have effects, tells me really how strong and powerful these drugs are.  And how much doctors downplay it.   

 

I do hope i stablize since I was feeling better.   

 

The only thing I question is whether i should have just finished up tapering the luvox instead.  Because its a pain to have to make up two different medication capsules now.  but oh well.  I will deal with it.   

 

Still sleeping good due to the seroquel, thank goodness.  Because the tinnitus last night was unbearable.   

'

  

[BfromNJ]

@Shep

 

So today is another bad day.  Increased anxiety, tinnitus, weird disconnected feeling.  I hope I level out .  What if I dont?  Just keep holding i guess even if i need to wait more than a month?  I dont want to go back up.  I can deal with some increased anxiety but the tinnitus sucks.  Do some people have to go back up even at just 5%?

[Shep]

If your symptoms are severe, you may want to updose since it's only been 12 days since your reduction. However, if you can manage with your current symptoms, holding will be a good idea. I would hold until you're at Withdrawal Normal:

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

Going forward, you may want to try the Brassmonkey Slide:

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

You can still do 5% reductions per month (or even less), but they are weekly reductions that add up to 5% (or whatever you choose to taper), instead of reducing 5% at once. It's a bit gentler on the nervous system.  You can adjust the slide to fit your specific taper rate, as Brassmonkey writes here: 

 

On 4/22/2018 at 3:07 PM, brassmonkey said:

Any combination of four (4) small reductions and a hold can be used. A reduction of 1.25% a week will yield a total drop of 5% or a reduction of 0.625% would give a total drop of 2.5%.  A very popular method is to reduce by 1% a week. 

[BfromNJ]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

If your symptoms are severe, you may want to updose since it's only been 12 days since your reduction. However, if you can manage with your current symptoms, holding will be a good idea. I would hold until you're at Withdrawal Normal:

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

Going forward, you may want to try the Brassmonkey Slide:

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

You can still do 5% reductions per month (or even less), but they are weekly reductions that add up to 5% (or whatever you choose to taper), instead of reducing 5% at once. It's a bit gentler on the nervous system.  You can adjust the slide to fit your specific taper rate, as Brassmonkey writes here: 

 

Yeah I think id like to do a slide next reduction.  this gabapentin of just 5% seems far worse than the luvox drop I did at 25%!    makes me wonder if I should have held off on the gabapentin and kept on with the luvox taper.  But either way, whether its one or the other, they gotta go.   and if its this hard now to taper gabapentin, I would want to know how hard it will be in a year or more from now. And what scares me about this drug is the supposed tolerance you build to it so quickly.     

 

so is the slide method still feasible if you are not using a liquid?  its such small amounts to be so exact with, if you know what I mean.   

[Shep]

Please read a few of the posts in your thread starting here:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/19756-bfromnj-mirtazapine-taper/?do=findComment&comment=422756

 

Do you feel the same, that the gabapentin is causing side effects? 

 

If you want to reassess your game plan for which drug to taper first, please continue posting your drug and symptoms journal. Because symptoms can come and go, it will be good to know where you're at now. 

 

1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

so is the slide method still feasible if you are not using a liquid?  its such small amounts to be so exact with, if you know what I mean.  

 

You've been getting stellar advice from Brassmonkey in the "How to Use a Scale" thread. Since he wrote the how-to guide on the slide, he will be the best to touch base with regarding this on that thread. He also used a scale for his Paxil taper and went to very low doses using the scale with the slide method. 

[BfromNJ]

41 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please read a few of the posts in your thread starting here:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/19756-bfromnj-mirtazapine-taper/?do=findComment&comment=422756

 

Do you feel the same, that the gabapentin is causing side effects? 

 

If you want to reassess your game plan for which drug to taper first, please continue posting your drug and symptoms journal. Because symptoms can come and go, it will be good to know where you're at now. 

 

 

You've been getting stellar advice from Brassmonkey in the "How to Use a Scale" thread. Since he wrote the how-to guide on the slide, he will be the best to touch base with regarding this on that thread. He also used a scale for his Paxil taper and went to very low doses using the scale with the slide method. 

okay.  will check in with him.    im just glad I didn't go for 10% to start.  I am still fearful that even at 8 weeks after my luvox drop, it may have been too soon to start this.   maybe I should have held off a bit longer. 

[BfromNJ]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 7:41 AM, Shep said:

This is not strictly brain damage. Brain damage means some physical part has been permanently removed and can never be recovered. Rather, this is iatrogenic neuropsychiatric damage.

 

so does this statement imply that the destabilization from changes can cause permanent brain damage? 

[BfromNJ]

1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

Please

 

1 hour ago, BfromNJ said:

Please read a few of the posts in your thread starting here:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/19756-bfromnj-mirtazapine-taper/?do=findComment&comment=422756

 

Do you feel the same, that the gabapentin is causing side effects? 

 

If you want to reassess your game plan for which drug to taper first, please continue posting your drug and symptoms journal. Because symptoms can come and go, it will be good to know where you're at now. 

 

Shep so I did go back and reread this. I see that I was feeling similar about 10 days into my luvox drop, as I am now 12 days into this gaba drop.

[BfromNJ]

@Shep

@ChessieCat

 

15 days of my taper.   Things were going well.  I was having windows of days.  Now The last two days I am having weird ear pressure and my ears feel wet inside. Like something is in them.  Also periodic pain and a burning sensation in them.  I  had this about a month after I stopped gabapentin in December.  Stopped after being on 17 days.  Well, a quick taper.    I cant say for sure if it's the gabapentin withdraw, as I do believe i have tmj that is worsening recently, so it could be a flare that.  And around the time I had this in January, I had major dental work and an upper endoscopy that involved having mouth open.  That's why I cant be sure if its tmj or withdraw.  But it the weirdest sensation and its driving me mad!  Now I'm wishing I waited.   But is there ever a good time?  I cant believe 5% could have such an effect if it is from that.  Am.i too late to updose or is it a mistake with so many med changes in my past?  I guess I should ride it out?  

 

 I haven't done a symptom diary because this is really all that's going on.  

 

Anxiety is pretty much in check and sleep is fine.  Also, tinnitus not so bad.  I just dont know how to get relief with my ears.  Cotton sort of helps.  😕

[Shep]

Did you get water in your ears from swimming or showering? Is this a possible ear infection that you need to have checked out by a doctor? 

[BfromNJ]

48 minutes ago, Shep said:

Did you get water in your ears from swimming or showering? Is this a possible ear infection that you need to have checked out by a doctor? 

Nope,  I don't believe this is the case.  Since I have had an ongoing problem with my ears in general, since my bumpy road with medication since January.   Im just thinking its may be withdrawal with the reduction and hopefully it settles.  or as I said, the tmj.  I am seeing a tmj specialist in August.  its just a problem with you have multiple things it could be, but have recently made a med reduction.  coincidence or not?  

 

Shep, I have a trip coming up on 7/21, a cruise for one week.  I am supposed to reduce another 5% again on 7/3.  Do you think I may be better waiting till after though?

[ChessieCat]

Just now, BfromNJ said:

I have a trip coming up on 7/21, a cruise for one week.  I am supposed to reduce another 5% again on 7/3.  Do you think I may be better waiting till after though?

 

I think holding until at least 1 week after you get back would be a good idea.  Can't help the pun:  why rock the boat?

 

Holidays can be stressful, even if you are having a good time.  I would also urge you not to drink alcohol and caffeine beverages, try to not to overeat and also try to keep a good sleep routine and not stay up too late.  Everything in moderation.

 

And I hope you have a nice time.

[BfromNJ]

Just now, ChessieCat said:

 

I think holding until at least 1 week after you get back would be a good idea.  Can't help the pun:  why rock the boat?

 

Holidays can be stressful, even if you are having a good time.  I would also urge you not to drink alcohol and caffeine beverages, try to not to overeat and also try to keep a good sleep routine and not stay up too late.  Everything in moderation.

 

And I hope you have a nice time.

I love the pun. lol.   and I don't drink alcohol (recovering alcoholic) or caffeine (bad for reflux and anxiety).  Now, the overeating thing is another story. lol. 

[BfromNJ]

bad wave today.  so tired of this being my life.  the problem with my ears is not helping at all.     I know this is to be expected in tapering and withdrawal, but it is still difficult.  having health issues on top of the problems from tapering is difficult, because then i dont know if its the drug or a health problem.  once i stablize i believe i will be holding a bit.  

 

im so depressed today, because I am so uncomfortable with my ear problem.   i cant cope well.  

[ChessieCat]

I've moved your post to SA's existing topic.  Please use the site search function or google (add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term) before creating a new topic.

 

SA likes to keep similar information in one place so that it easier for others to find.

 

acid-reflux

 

[BfromNJ]

38 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I've moved your post to SA's existing topic.  Please use the site search function or google (add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term) before creating a new topic.

 

SA likes to keep similar information in one place so that it easier for others to find.

 

acid-reflux

 

okay sorry i had trouble finding it because its not really acid reflux. its different, silent reflux.  both treatment and symptoms.  

[ChessieCat]

It's still reflux and easier for it to all be in one topic.

 

https://www.webmd.com/heartburn-gerd/guide/laryngopharyngeal-reflux-silent-reflux#2-6

[BfromNJ]

@Shep

@ChessieCat

 

20th day of my 5% gabapentin reduction.  I have had a burning sensation and a weird tingling in my ear area, mostly on the right side for days now, along with stabbing pain in my ears sometimes.  also, my lips are burning .  I don't have allergies.   Maybe withdrawal?      I just feel really really weird.   Still sleeping okay, due to Seroquel I suppose.  tinnitus ramped up a bit today but not bothersome to me really, in comparison to the burning, etc.    Since I took an average of my pills when I calculated my dosage, I think my actual reduction may have been more on the side of 10%.  I figure this because  when I am measuring out capsules to make up my new ones, they seem to all be now more on the higher end of the average.  But okay I guess since I am still in a "safe" range.   Im still trying to just wait this out.  Rather than go back up in dosage. 

 

As previously mentioned, its difficult to ascertain whether I have withdrawal problems, my silent reflux (actual diagnosis)  or tmj disorder (dr in august ). or even hormonal.   but im tired of feeling like crap.  

 

Trying to get the increased anxiety under control with meditation and distraction.  I have a lot on my plate, with my health issues, an upcoming vacation (cruise ) and a most likely move to Virginia in August to be near my parents and brother.

 

 

 

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, BfromNJ said:

a weird tingling in my ear area,

 

 I can't tell you if this is the cause of your burning and tingling symptoms, but paresthesia is a common withdrawal symptom.  I've had it come and go in my hands.

 

Paresthesia: Pins & Needles, Numbness, Tingling, Burning - Surviving ...

 

Regarding the anxiety, you may already have these links but in case you don't:

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

Good luck on the trip and the move.

 

[BfromNJ]

1 minute ago, Gridley said:

 

 I can't tell you if this is the cause of your burning and tingling symptoms, but paresthesia is a common withdrawal symptom.  I've had it come and go in my hands.

 

Paresthesia: Pins & Needles, Numbness, Tingling, Burning - Surviving ...

 

Regarding the anxiety, you may already have these links but in case you don't:

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

Good luck on the trip and the move.

 

Thanks Gridley.  the fact that you say it comes and goes gives me hope it too shall pass.  what a bumpy ride it can be.  And if its health related, i have hope that the tmj doctor i will be seeing has some positive advice for me.   

[BfromNJ]

Darn do my ears bother me.  Pains , fullness..  

[ChessieCat]

At the start of my taper I tried to reduce by 10% (I didn't hold long enough after going from 100mg to 75mg after 2 weeks at 50mg).

 

About 2 days later I had painful ears.  I took some OTC cold medicine but that didn't do anything.  Then I realised that it might be withdrawal.  I increased my dose by a small amount (from 67.5mg to 70mg) and the ear pain went after a few hours.

 

I'm not suggesting that you increase, just letting you know what happened to me and that it did go after increasing so proved to me that it was in fact withdrawal.

[BfromNJ]

11 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

At the start of my taper I tried to reduce by 10% (I didn't hold long enough after going from 100mg to 75mg after 2 weeks at 50mg).

 

About 2 days later I had painful ears.  I took some OTC cold medicine but that didn't do anything.  Then I realised that it might be withdrawal.  I increased my dose by a small amount (from 67.5mg to 70mg) and the ear pain went after a few hours.

 

I'm not suggesting that you increase, just letting you know what happened to me and that it did go after increasing so proved to me that it was in fact withdrawal.

No im not going to increase.  I think its best to hold since I have already done enough changes in the last 8 months with meds.    Although I can tell you this - The gabapentin reduction of 5% (or maybe closer to 10%) is coming out to be way harder than the luvox drop I did in April of 25%.   or maybe its just that I did it too soon after the luvox reduction.  But my drug load of brakes is just too much.  so I think ill be holding, like I said, at least until after my cruise.  Then I may do a brass monkey slide. 

 

Just not feeling good at all. My brain is going haywire the last two days.  my tinnitus is off the charts.  I have horrible reflux.   feeling out of body of sorts.   it seems like my system registers a change much later than the 4-7 day rule. 

 

and to make matters worse, my dumb a** took my 1 pm luvox dose this morning by accident.  greaaaaaat!

[BfromNJ]

I am finding the gabapentin to be much harder to reduce @ a mere 5% than I did the luvox of 25%!   This drug is a doozy for me.  or I may just be in a wave right now. 

[ChessieCat]

Posts about your own situation and the relevant responses have been moved here from tips-for-tapering-off-neurontin-gabapentin

 

[BfromNJ]

@Shep

@ChessieCat

 

My tinnitus is better today, but I don't know wtf is still going on with this weird burning sensation in my right ear area.  I also feels like something is dripping in there sometimes.  So funky.   and I am burning also in through my chest and lips.  overall strange.   I feel like I am going to burst into flames.  lol.   I am lol -ing but its actually quite disturbing to me.   Im unnerved by this and very uncomfortable.  this worst is the feeling in the ear.     I do see a lot of information on here about neuropathy.  Would that be this?  does it fade or can this be permanent?  its ironic that gabapentin is used to treat this in the first place. 

 

Should this subside for me?  Three weeks of my first gabapentin drop.  any suggestions for some relief?