JoshD: my journey

[JoshD]

@Longroadhome What's the name of the site?  I can't seem to find it.

[ChessieCat]

Altostrata, this site's founder suffered withdrawal syndrome after quitting Paxil:  ☼-about-altostrata-withdrawal-syndrome-since-2004

 

[Longroadhome]

10 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

Hello Josh was just reading your posts . Are you sure it’s still withdrawal and not anxiety /depression. Read Paxil poop out website. Sounds similar to you the man CT off Paxil had two years of hell with side effects then  had six years free of medicines three of those with no symptoms from WD . Six years on he had depression/anxiety back and had to go back on meds but weened off . Didn’t stay in them . 

Does it feel like wd still with all the weird symptoms or does it feel like depression and anxiety ? 

It’s a really good informative site Paxil Poopout

[Longroadhome]

https://mentalhealthdaily.com

Paxil poop out symptoms:does paroxetine stop working? 

[Longroadhome]

Josh let me know you have received web address 👍

[Longroadhome]

Sorry if I haven’t explained properly the man that wrote the piece had become tolerant to Paxil (known as poop out) after taking it for 9 months . He came off med too fast on advice of GP. Suffered withdrawal for well over a year pulled through . Still didn’t feel back to old self until year 3. But all told was off meds for 6 years. Had relapse of anxiety and depression went back on meds tapperwd off . Hope this makes sense just off to work. 

[JoshD]

@Longroadhome Hi!  Yes i got the website.  Thanks for the link and clarifying your statement.  God bless!

[JoshD]

@ChessieCat Chessie, just out of curiosity, how bad have your withdrawal symptoms been doing the slow % taper?  Like if you had to rate it on a scale of 1-10 in terms of how bearable life is with WD.  Just curios.  I read your website too but didn't see much details about your symptoms through WD

 

@Longroadhome I found the website but was not able to find the article you were referring to.  Do you have a direct link to it?  Thanks.

 

Hope all is well for the both of you in your WD journey.

[Longroadhome]

Your welcome  

reading your thread I can feel your panic because of the intensity of your returned symptoms . 

You need to try and be as calm as possible and look at each one of your symptoms . 

Are they defo in wd stage ? If so as well as the moderators already helping you which is great You can get further help from Brass monkey on this site he has come off Paxil same as you and I, having been on it for over 20 years. He has been totally off for a number of years but still has great input on this site . He is another moderator. 

He gives fine details of what to expect even years off Paxil and wd and may well give you your answer about wd coming back after 6 years . 

You will get better you have before and you will now. Try your best not to panic as this will intensify your symptoms. It’s very hard having had a  number of good years for this to return I completely understand that but try to accept your situation and that you will get through it. 

[Longroadhome]

Https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/04/28/paxil-poop-out-symptoms-does-paroxetine-stop-working/

[JoshD]

@Longroadhome Thanks for the link!  That's a good article actually.  Has a lot of good stuff i can bring to my therapist.  I'm kinda afraid to reach out to the moderators because ultimately i know there's nothing that can really be done.  I think i'd just be told to suck it up and hang in there.  Probably the truth but isn't really the answer i'm looking for  I'm just trying to find someone who's been in the same boat I am in because i'm starting to wonder if this is how I really am off meds.  I have a hard time believing it is but i have to know because how i approach it will differ based on that.  

 

All that being said, after reading that guys website i have most of the symptoms.  Here's a list

 

• Depersonalization

• Crying
• Minimal self-contro: 
• Obsessive thoughts
• Palpitations
• Panic attacks
• Severe depression

 

I just don't understand how i can have all these so severely after 6 years of withdrawal and 2 years of somewhat stable life.

Edited March 6, 2019 by JoshD
wasn't finished

[Longroadhome]

Did your withdrawal last 4 years and did it get much better from the beginning to the end of the fourth year regarding symptoms?  Was your last two years symptom free and were you back to normal?

i have been on Paxil 20mg for 15 years . All ok couple of blips but nothing much over the years . Then August last year it stopped working and anxiety and depression set in . Gp wanted me to go up to 30mg but I really wasn’t happy about this so I decided to taper off . On psychiatrists instructions I started tapering (way too fast !) from 20 to 15 to 10 to 7.5mg from November 2018 to February 2019. Last two months symptoms have increased since my last taper to 7.5mg. So I have upped my dose by 1mg to 8.5mg and am now seeing how I go and how long until I stabilise. When this happens I will continue to taper extremely slowly to get off completely . The symptoms are horrendous I have things that come and go like headaches and muscle spasms and tinnitus while other symptoms stay with me like anxiety depression crawling hot skin and lots more.  without this site I think I would have crumbled as my GP said he had never heard of tolerance and looked at me sceptically  when I mentioned my symptoms . 

I am slowly beginning to take on board I really do have to be patient get on with every day things as best I can until  my WD symptoms stabilise and I can continue my journey to homeostasis. Easier said than done but there’s no other way for any of us. I don’t believe in switching and swapping meds this just complicates recovery. 

 

[Longroadhome]

Getting back to you I really recommend looking at brass monkeys threads and topics he has written on this site as on one of them it (perhaps a moderator can help me with this as to where you can find it) details how long in years you can expect episodes of withdrawal to happen . 

Your not going to stay like this forever no one ever has . If it’s wd you know it will pass. If it’s depression and anxiety that’s developed and it could be,  then you need to decide how you want to treat it with CBT or meds. Both will/do get better you will recover. 

[Longroadhome]

Please look at :,Brass monkey “Are we  there yet” number 12 . 

[Longroadhome]

Please read  Brass Monkey link “ Are we there yet” number 12

[JoshD]

6 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

Did your withdrawal last 4 years and did it get much better from the beginning to the end of the fourth year regarding symptoms?  

 

My withdrawal was really bad the first 2-3 years... i think.  It's very foggy for me.  I do know the last 2 years since i've had my daughter that it's been pretty mild until just recently.  

6 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

When this happens I will continue to taper extremely slowly to get off completely

You don't know how happy i am to here this.  I don't want people to suffer any more than they have to and to hear that going slowly decreases the intensity of WD makes me happy.  I wish the best for you.  I really do.

 

6 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

Your not going to stay like this forever no one ever has .

I hope so.  My mind plays tricks on me when i'm in the thick of it and I start to believe it.  

 

 

6 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

Please read  Brass Monkey link “ Are we there yet” number 12

I've read his entire post on WD and i like it.  There's a lot of fantastic information on this site and i hope it gets public attention.  People need to know what to expect from withdrawal and how to minimize WD symptoms.  

 

Thanks for sharing your story with me and spending the time to read mine.  

[Bee5]

9 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

All ok couple of blips but nothing much over the years .

 

@Longroadhome at which drop did you start to feel severe symptoms? I am reducing quetiapine first, then I will tackle paroxetine.

 

@Altostrata after how many years did your severe symptoms stop (I know you had symptoms for 11 years, but for how long after 0 mg did you have severe symptoms)?

[Longroadhome]

At 7.5mg but the whole process from 20mg to 7.5 in three months caught up with me. Have gone to 8.5mg not stable but sticking until I am then decreasing ever so slowly . 

Never had a problem with seroxat (Paxil) until it pooped in August 2018. 

[Longroadhome]

You’re welcome joshD !

[JoshD]

10 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

At 7.5mg but the whole process from 20mg to 7.5 in three months caught up with me. Have gone to 8.5mg not stable but sticking until I am then decreasing ever so slowly . 

I can't applaud you enough for this and I feel like you're doing the right thing.  Easy does it my friend. 

[JoshD]

side note:  I suspect this wave was the result of a few things or a combination of them: 

 

1) My creatine and D-Ribose.  I had been taking creatine for a while because i was exercising and i had also felt pretty good for the past year so i figured it'd be fine.  It gave me energy to workout but i suspect it also helped reduce stress as well.  I've read some stuff on nootropics around it.  Also, D-Ribose sort of works in a similar fashion as creatine.  It helps produce ATP much like creatine does.  So i think that maybe i overdid it and got my body worked up and had this crash.  Either way i still think it's related to WD but maybe fueled by these 2 supplements.  

 

2) The augmentin i took for my bronchitis.  After reading Aeormans Cipro experience, after he had some good years, it made me wonder if that may have caused this.  While i was on augmentin my body rejected it harshly.  I had diarrhea and stomach cramps for like 5 days straight until i pleaded with my doc to get off of it.  They say anxiety and what not is associated with the gut so maybe it killed off some wrong gut bacteria and the anxiety started again?  Also, i tried a probiotic that had some anti-anxiety probiotics in it and it sent me off the deep end.  That day was very rough.

 

3).  Just part of WD.  I have to admit even though the last 2 years of my life haven't been the worst (anxiety, depression), I wouldn't say I was super happy.  Don't get me wrong, it was light years better than now and my first 2 years of WD... i just wasn't "happy".  I just assumed it was because of my fatigue from RA (which i developed a month after i stopped taking my medication...) *shrug*.  So maybe it's just my brain trying to put the last few pieces back in place so I can be whole again and maybe happier.  To be honest, i'm not even sure what that means or what to expect anymore.  I'm just trying to be realistic about it so i don't get disappointed.  Also the show must go on.  

 

As always, thanks for reading and best of luck to you all.

[Longroadhome]

What happened to aeorman did he recover from his cipro experience ? 

[JoshD]

@Longroadhome  He sure did.  It took him a long time though.  Hoping that's not the case for me

 

[Longroadhome]

See there’s your answer you will too !! How long did it take him second time round and did he take anything to help him meds wise ? 

[JoshD]

@Longroadhome Yeah true.  He didn't take any medication.  I don't plan on taking any either.  Things are SLOWLY getting better (always seem to be the case) with a few dips followed by even better mood following.  Very up and down. 

 

I'm been doing some searching and I've found a few others who seem to experience a bad wave around year 5 or 6.  Here's Kostas saying similar things to me:  

and

 

squirrel:

 

 

It's a kinda nice to know it's WD but at the same time it's not... because it looks like it's not going to be a quick fix.  I guess i'm ok with it as long as it gets better along the way.  I'm already a month in and things have gotten better... just not great or back to normal.  I doubt it's any tougher than my first 2 years but it's tough... probably because we're more healed and to go back is very difficult.  The good news is it appears that after this bad wave people tend to stop posting.  I'm going to take that as a good sign and that major healing occurred afterwards. 

 

It's been such a long journey i don't even know what to expect when it's over.  I have no idea what it's like to be "normal" or what that's going to feel like or even mean for me.  

 

Sorry it's been so long since i posted.  Been focusing on other things.  I've been trying jogging a mile or two a day along with cold showers.  They seem to help for a small period of time but nothing that sticks.  Who knows, maybe it's helping me heal faster.  

 

Oh i should also mention that i've been taking 200mg of magnesium and 500mg of taurine at night to help with the heart palpitations/arrhythmia stuff.  Seems to work good for that but not much on the cortisol/adrenal surges.  I hate those the most.  

 

 

[Longroadhome]

Sounds very much like you’re on the right track Josh so just keep going and don’t go completely off site when better keep us posted it’s good to hear when people are completely better 😊 and have made it through ! 

[kokoro1974]

hi Josh, I have been reading all your threat and have been felling every step of your journey as if it was mine or from a very dear and close friend.  Currently, I am weaning off paxhell very sloooooowly,  and i don't even know if I am going to make it. Just want you to warn you that I once took taurine and it completely burn my nervous system, I literally felt like I was burning inside, taurine left me in a constant felling of impeding doom and it took three or four months to get back in the stable place where I was. It is not my intention to trigger your fears, just warn you. You are doing a great job in your recovery and I don't want that taurine wreak havoc on you recovery process.  The well being of any of us is mine too.

Send you a big big hug from Mexico City

 

Pd.

Keep on posting, lots of us are following your process, the goods and the bads.

 

[JoshD]

Thx Kokoro!  i may have to start lowering the amount of taurine i take at night to try to get off of it.  I'm also going to post some good stuff since you asked for the goods and bads.  

 

Well this week i had some pretty good moments that lasted a few hours.  One was when  I was going for a walk outside.  I looked up and all the sudden my awareness of the world grew.  It was like a cover of my eyes and soul had been lifted and i could see the world past a few feet outside of me and realized there was life going on!  I'm not describing it very well but i've had this happen to me a few times this week.  I was in my basement playing video games when all the sudden the torment lifted and I again was able to perceive things outside of my 5 foot range.  I was able to perceive that there was a upstairs and outside and there's cars coming to and from places... It was weird but made me feel whole again.  Unfortunately these feelings didn't last super long... maybe a 2-6 hrs but I was super grateful and it reaffirmed to me that i can heal and will get better.  For me it only took one of those windows to let me know that I won't be like this forever and that i will heal.  Oh!  Also last weekend i went to a soccer park with my 2 year old daughter, wife and dog and we had a REALLY good time.  Probably one of the best times i'd had in over a year I bet.  It was very sunny that day and there were lots of people there to watch the different soccer games that were going on in 3 of the different fields and me and my dog were walking the half mile padded track they had circling the fields while my wife played on the playground with my daughter.  Once i was done walking I took my daughter down to the fields and sat with her for like a hour and watched the other kids play soccer.  We were there for maybe 4 hrs and it was a great day!  I don't recall having many WD symptoms and if i did they were minor.  

 

Now for the bad.  I have to admit my lows haven't been to bad this week.  If last month my WD symptoms (on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the strongest/worst) were between 7-10 then this week it's been between a 5-8.  Conversely, if my good feelings on a scale of 1 to 10 last month were like a 0-2, this week I was able to experience a 5-8   So i feel pretty good about that.  As always i'm wanting it to be done now so I can carry on with life but i have to remind myself that thinking like that doesn't really help me in fact it usually makes me feel worse.  The thing that helps me the most is trying to calm myself down and stay in the moment.  That being said, I've been on a leave of abscence from work so I've been able to construct my days in such a way that's helpful to manage stress and focus on relaxing if i need to.  I normally get up and play some video games for about an hour or so and then i try to get outdoors and get some exercising whether it be walking around my neighborhood with my dogs for an hour or going to that soccer park and walking the track and being around people.  After that i usually come home and take a shower and get ready to go to my counseling appointments.  My counselor scheduled some every other day so I can have something healthy to do during my leave of absence.  I'm not sure it's helping since it's really hard for a counselor to understand our situation but whatever... it gets me out of the house

 

Sorry for the scattered thoughts but i just wanted to give a quick update since you asked.  Sorry to hear you're having troubles in your tapering Kokoro.  I think you're doing the right thing and making things a lot less harder on yourself by doing the slow taper.  Hang in there!  Wishing you all the best in your journey. 

[JoshD]

Hey just wanted to post another update.  As of the last week, things have pretty much gone back to normal.  I'd say i'm about 85% there.  The big thing for me is the intensity has died down.  So, i still have anxiety and fear but it's much more manageable and doesn't disrupt my life.  The only thing i kinda still have is trouble sleeping at night and dreams.  Again, it's not nearly as bad as it was like 2 - 3 weeks ago but there's still a small amount of trouble here.  Just wanted to post this in case someone down the line runs into a similar wave really far out in their WD process.  Hopefully it'll help.

 

I'll also try to keep this thread updated if things improve even more and maybe improve past how i was before this big wave.  One can only hope!  Hope you all are doing well.  Thanks for reading!

[Longroadhome]

Josh can you tell me yr story of w/d please 

thank you 

[Aeroman]

On 3/5/2019 at 10:19 AM, JoshD said:

Hi All,

 

Just curious if anyone has had a big wave this many years out.   I read Aeroman's posts and now i'm a little concerned that his situation might be similar to mine.  Like 2 - 3 weeks leading up to this huge wave i was taking augmentin for bronchitis.  I tried to hold out as long as i could but i wasn't getting better and was basically forced to take it.  I was on it for about 5 or 6 days and while on it my stomach hurt constantly and i couldn't hold anything down... liquids or solids.  I ended up going to a little emergency clinic and they told me to stop taking the augmentin.  Then 2 weeks or so later i start getting the crazy dreams, cortisol surges and heart palpitations that remind me of my first year of recovery.  

 

Now, i'm not going to say that they are related but i'm racking my brain trying to figure how/what i did to have this big of a setback.  The only thing i can think of is the creatine and d-ribose supplements i was taking for fitness and fatigue.  Is it common for people this many years out to have a big wave like this?  Especially after 2 years of fairly solid/stable emotions?  This has been real tough and i feel like i'm back in it again.  In fact, i'm taking a leave of absence from work too. 

 

I know i will get through this and i also know that no matter what someone tells me about their situation (waves after a long period of stability) it won't affect mine but, sometimes it's good to hear though if only for hope's sake.  Thanks all.

 

checking in.  How have you been?