Longroadhome: think I may be tapering Seroxat / Paxil too fast

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Longroadhome, sorry you've had an uptick in symptoms. Definitely wouldn't taper the two drugs at once, hun. It's likely just too much for brain and CNS....

Hoping that, as you hold, you see some improvement. 

Waving from London xxx

[Longroadhome]

Thank you @Hanna72
you’re such a kind and generous person 

what were your symptoms then if you don’t mind me asking ? 
how are you ?

[Longroadhome]

2 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Hey @Longroadhome, sorry you've had an uptick in symptoms. Definitely wouldn't taper the two drugs at once, hun. It's likely just too much for brain and CNS....

Hoping that, as you hold, you see some improvement. 

Waving from London xxx

Thank you sunny 

don’t think it’s tapering the two drugs Though I will hold and then taper one going forward 

feel it’s to do with the double dosing 

a kind of kindling effect 

 

anyone out there had the same ? 

[Longroadhome]

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

 

Not a good idea to change 2 drugs at once, especially since one of them is Paxil. I can't tell if the brain zaps are from Paxil or the pregabalin reduction.

 

Please stop tapering both drugs for the time being.

 

What is your daily drug schedule?

Thanks @Altostrata 

Going forward I’ll taper just Paxil though I do think it’s from the double dose of Paxil I took as symptoms started just two days after 
 

drug schedule:

8:30am  4.8mg Paxil

10am.   12.5mg Pregabalin 

4pm.      12.5mg pregabalin 

 

I really think I’ve kindled myself with the decreasing of Paxil then the double dose . Even though it was just the once. Do you think this is a possibility ? 
 

If it  is kindling How long will it take to settle staying put and holding where I am now ? 
 

also

might be worth mentioning I’ve had flu for the past week (not COVID) and I’ve been away for a week on holiday to Scotland which I found very stressful because of symptoms 
 

thank you for your support as always 

 

 

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Longroadhome said:

I really think I’ve kindled myself with the decreasing of Paxil then the double dose . Even though it was just the once. Do you think this is a possibility ? 

 

I don't know. You've also been making changes in pregabalin, which may have been controlling some of your Paxil withdrawal symptoms.

 

What times of day are you getting brain zaps? Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

[Longroadhome]

Thank you Alto 

can I recover from kindling by holding my dose? 
Today 

6pm.    Up and packing Ready to go home 

              Very anxious unsteady on feet

               Small brain zaps 

8:30am. 4.8mg Paxil 

8:30am.  Long drive home from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

10am.     Stopped on motorway for de caf 

                 Very unsteady on feet and anxious 

                  12.5mg pregabalin . Toastie

11:25am.  Back on motorway symptoms not too 

                    Bad when concentrating on driving 

1pm.          Motorway cafe de caf coffee and another 

                   Toastie 

3:00pm.      Home. very unsteady on feet dizzy 

                     And anxious . Settles a little when I 

                     Lay down 

4pm.            12.5mg pregabalin 

5pm.            Food shop . Feeling unsteady And dizzy

                     Anxious 

5;30pm.      Daughter popped over with my 

                     Granddaughter.  Talking but 

                     Feel unsteady and off balance 

6pm.            Relaxing on sofa . Anxiety bad 

                     Dizziness and unbalance better but not 

                    Gone 
Need to complete 

[Altostrata]

Whatever is going on, I would not reduce any of your drugs for the time being. You need to allow time to stabilize.

 

Why are you taking pregabalin on the schedule of 8:30 a.m. and 4 p.m.? Its half-life is only about 6 hours.

 

How do you feel before and after taking pregabalin?

[Longroadhome]

Im not 

I take it at 10am and 4pm

is kindling the same as Destabilising ? 
 

thank you  Alt 

[Altostrata]

4 minutes ago, Longroadhome said:

I take it at 10am and 4pm

 

Why do you take pregabalin at 10 a.m. and 4 p.m.? How do you feel before and after you take pregabalin?

 

Please help me out and answer questions completely so I don't have to repeat them.

 

Kindling is a type of reaction when you are sensitized and you take a drug. Destabilization is caused by irregular dosing or reduction and may lead to kindling if another drug is introduced.

[Longroadhome]

Sorry Alt

I have always taken it at those times ? 
originally when I first started in November  2018 i took it at the same time as Paxil At 8:30am and 4pm 

but you suggested not taking them together so i then started taking it at 10am then 4pm each day 
I can’t say I feel any different before a dose . No symptoms heighten around the time of taking either the morning dose or afternoon. Or after. Example; feeling anxious today from when I get up with imbalance dizziness etc. No different in intensity prior to taking pregabalin. No difference after taking .
same for afternoon dose. 
 

[Altostrata]

On 3/22/2020 at 8:44 AM, Longroadhome said:

also couldn’t get hold of my Paxil liquid med and had to swap to tablets for a week dry cutting (not accurately and was getting slight brain zaps) 

hopefully will settle

 

Did your brain zaps start last March? Have you had them all along? Was there a period where they went away?

[Hanna72]

4 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

what were your symptoms then if you don’t mind me asking ? 
how are you ?

I am good thank you for asking.

My symptoms were numbness in legs, tingling in face and not good balance. I haven’t had these symptoms for months now.  I believe my nervous system was out of whack  for so many years do to this drug. 
I hope that it will soon pass for you.

Take it easy and don’t be to hard on yourself💖
 

 

[Longroadhome]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

Did your brain zaps start last March? Have you had them all along? Was there a period where they went away?

They went away . Afterwards only had them sometimes when tapering just the odd hour etc 

mostly they went away 

[Altostrata]

When did the zaps come back?

[Sottana]

@Longroadhome I tried splitting my dose to avoid interdose WD and it immediately put me in a bad wave. I’ve been in it for a week. Reacting to our doses is so frustrating. We’ve become so sensitive to timing, and amount. I’m sure you’ll get back to where you were in a few weeks. 

[Longroadhome]

1 hour ago, Adili13 said:

@Longroadhome I tried splitting my dose to avoid interdose WD and it immediately put me in a bad wave. I’ve been in it for a week. Reacting to our doses is so frustrating. We’ve become so sensitive to timing, and amount. I’m sure you’ll get back to where you were in a few weeks. 

Thank you Adili I hope so 

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

When did the zaps come back?

Noticed them about a week ago 

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

sunday 9th August 

 

7am woke and got up hadn’t slept well woke 

          At 2am then dozed on and off 

          Two bad cortisol spikes inbetween        
          Dozing 
8am.  Breakfast dizzy floaty feeling high 

           Anxiety
8.30am 4.8Mg Paxil

9am.   At daughters picking car up . Off balance 

10am.  Picked Georgie my dog up from kennels 

             Muscle contractions floaty feeling in head 

10.20.   12.5mg Pregabalin 

12midday. Food Shopping . Decided to start Plant    
               Paradox diet 
2pm.       Walked Georgie 🐕 Difficult as I felt 

                 Very dizzy and off balance 

3.30pm.  Rested symptoms died down a little 

4 pm.       12.5mg Pregabalin 

 

to be continued .. 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

14 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

Noticed them about a week ago

 

You reduced pregabalin at the end of July? It may have been preventing the zaps.

 

Otherwise, do you feel better or worse since you reduced it at the end of July? Why did you reduce pregabalin?

 

Please post your daily notes 24 hours at a time so they show the entire 24-hour cycle.

 

 

[Longroadhome]

4 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

@Altostrata

 

sunday 9th August 

 

7am woke and got up hadn’t slept well woke 

          At 2am then dozed on and off 

          Two bad cortisol spikes inbetween        
          Dozing 
8am.  Breakfast dizzy floaty feeling high 

           Anxiety
8.30am 4.8Mg Paxil

9am.   At daughters picking car up . Off balance 

10am.  Picked Georgie my dog up from kennels 

             Muscle contractions floaty feeling in head 

10.20.   12.5mg Pregabalin 

12midday. Food Shopping . Decided to start Plant    
               Paradox diet 
2pm.       Walked Georgie 🐕 Difficult as I felt 

                 Very dizzy and off balance 

3.30pm.  Rested symptoms died down a little 

4 pm.       12.5mg Pregabalin 

 

to be continued .. 

 

 

 

5pm.    Intense dizzy spells and imbalance Plus high.      Anxiety 

              In the kitchen prepping food for week 

              Plant Paradox Diet 

             Though symptoms were there I managed 

             Well 

            Soooooo much prepping for this diet ! 
7.50pm dinner and rest!! Dizzy and unsteady on feet

              Floaty and moderate anxiety 

@Altostrata thank you 😊 

 

while resting I have researched my symptoms today and others on this site have had exactly the same. Mainly due to swapping drugs and increasing decreasing And going off and on.
 

my drug history could contribute towards kindling as such:

crash from 20mg Paxil to 7.5mg Feb 2018

Increase  Feb to 8.5mg
pregabalin 75mg Started Nov 2018 

Jan 2019 decrease pregabalin to 50mg 

June start to decrease Pregabalin again to 25mg

August 25mg 

August 2.5 days without meds Neither Paxil or pregabalin 

August back to 50mg pregabalin 

sticking at  8.5mg Paxil 

stayed on these doses until January 2020 then started brass monkey taper 

March couldn’t get liquid Paxil so dry cut tablets 

don’t think this was quite accurate . Did this for four days until I managed to get liquid . Did have scales but don’t know exactly how accurate they were 
July accidentally double dosed Paxil One time only 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Yes, your nervous system probably is sensitized by your history of going on and off drugs.

 

Do you feel more dizzy after you take pregabalin? Please answer:

 

9 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

You reduced pregabalin at the end of July? It may have been preventing the zaps.

 

Otherwise, do you feel better or worse since you reduced it at the end of July? Why did you reduce pregabalin?

 

[Longroadhome]

15 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

You reduced pregabalin at the end of July? It may have been preventing the zaps.

 

Otherwise, do you feel better or worse since you reduced it at the end of July? Why did you reduce pregabalin?

 

Please post your daily notes 24 hours at a time so they show the entire 24-hour cycle.

 

 

Hi Alt 

hope you are enjoying the weekend out weather here is beautiful 

don’t feel any difference at all in symptoms when  tapering pregabalin . Unlike Paxil I notice very quickly within 2 or 3 days . 
symptoms started before my last pregabalin reduction and two days after my double dose of Paxil . 
I reduced pregabalin because I really regret starting it in Nov 2018. Recommended by a psychiatrist for Paxil wd. I didn’t know any better at the time and to be honest I really don’t think it helps with the Paxil Wd symptoms as the dose is very low .I resent every day I take it . The psychiatrist wanted me to go up and up on this drug . I didn’t go back to her. 
 

mill make sure going forward I do 24 hours at a time . Thank you 😊 

[Altostrata]

15 minutes ago, Longroadhome said:

symptoms started before my last pregabalin reduction and two days after my double dose of Paxil . 

 

What symptoms are you referring to?

 

I do believe we've mentioned it's not a good idea to change 2 drugs at the same time. We may not be able to figure this out.

[Longroadhome]

17 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, your nervous system probably is sensitized by your history of going on and off drugs.

 

Do you feel more dizzy after you take pregabalin? Please answer:

 

 

No. Dizziness with me all the time at the moment regardless so I don’t feel any more dizzy after taking pregabalin . Why do you ask ? 
 

im going to stick at these doses until I stabilise . 
 

do you think it’s kindling or sensitive to drug changes because of my history ? 
 

im confident it will settle in time after reading posts from others . 
 

Thanks for being there Alt as always 😊

[Altostrata]

I ask because I'm trying to figure out if any of your symptoms are caused by the drugs.

 

Yes, going on and off drugs and up and down can cause the nervous system to be sensitized. Please answer earlier question:

 

[Longroadhome]

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

What symptoms are you referring to?

 

I do believe we've mentioned it's not a good idea to change 2 drugs at the same time. We may not be able to figure this out.

The dizziness and off balance floaty feeling . 
yes we have I know but I really don’t feel pregabalin has that much of an affect on me because of how low the dose is .

my symptoms were WD normal during my taper from Jan up to the double dosing error . Now they have escalated . The dizziness and off balance are new symptoms as well as pins and needles and numbness in hands. Two days after double dosing I woke up with vertigo. This lasted fir a few days then followed slowly by dizzy off balance symptoms .

[Altostrata]

That you have also been adjusting the pregabalin dosing has complicated your situation considerably.

 

As I mentioned before at least a couple of times, although you might not feel any effect of the drug, pregabalin may have been offsetting the zaps and maybe other electrical sensations due to earlier paroxetine withdrawal syndrome. Your impulsive drug changes, against prior advice, have precipitated a renewal of those symptoms.

 

In my opinion, a switch from paroxetine to fluoxetine might stabilize your SSRI withdrawal symptoms. See

 

You'd do this by gradually adding in fluoxetine while you reduce Paxil. Given your history, in which you require a great deal of support for every step, I urge you to find a doctor who knows how to cross-taper and can answer your frequent questions.

[Longroadhome]

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

That you have also been adjusting the pregabalin dosing has complicated your situation considerably.

 

As I mentioned before at least a couple of times, although you might not feel any effect of the drug, pregabalin may have been offsetting the zaps and maybe other electrical sensations due to earlier paroxetine withdrawal syndrome. Your impulsive drug changes, against prior advice, have precipitated a renewal of those symptoms.

 

In my opinion, a switch from paroxetine to fluoxetine might stabilize your SSRI withdrawal symptoms. See

 

You'd do this by gradually adding in fluoxetine while you reduce Paxil. Given your history, in which you require a great deal of support for every step, I urge you to find a doctor who knows how to cross-taper and can answer your frequent questions.

I know your cross with me at the moment because I haven’t  listened .. AGAIN but I do appreciate your support 

I’ll try not to ask too many questions in the future .. 

 

ok I have to ask this one 

do you still want me to post daily reports ? 😊

[Altostrata]

We're not miracle workers. A switch to fluoxetine is my best guess to reduce your symptoms, they appear to be Paxil withdrawal.

 

We don't need to see any more daily notes now.

[Longroadhome]

1 minute ago, Altostrata said:

We're not miracle workers. A switch to fluoxetine is my best guess to reduce your symptoms, they appear to be Paxil withdrawal.

 

We don't need to see any more daily notes now.

Thanks Alt yr a star 

regarding switch yes it’s an option but feel a bit nervous watching Erell at the moment .

will see if things settle the next few weeks . 
you are miracle workers you’ve saved countless people from intense suffering and more .. 

take care 

[Hanna72]

@Longroadhome

Just thought of you.

Hope you are doing ok.

Wanted to give you supporting wishes. It’s a hard road we are on, but I truly believe it makes us stronger in the long run💪 Never stop believing that you will heal, you are stronger then you might think at times, this journey has been assigned to the brave ones🙏
Hugs to you my friend 💖

[Longroadhome]

@Hanna72

hello there ! 
I love your optimism!! And wish you continued progress.
how are you my friend ?

 

im not doing well I think the double dose has thrown my CNS off

Feel very dizzy, balance is completely off too. It’s 

been nearly 4 weeks And I still feel like I’m on a boat  Even when lying down . 

it just confirms to me we don’t truly heal until off these drugs altogether.

the mistake was made because the liquid form is double strength and I was thinking 4.8mg and so I took 4mg of liquid realising my error as soon as I swallowed. One time only .  
 

im also getting inter-dose wd every morning with brain zaps .
 

When this is all over I’m going to feel so proud of myself . I feel strong and I know it will pass.  I didn’t realise how patient I have become and less fearful too 😊
 

take care and  have a good weekend 🌈

[Hanna72]

@Longroadhome

I am good thank you for asking and your kind words.

It is so weird sometimes how the smallest things can throw off our nervous system. But I am glad you figured out what contributed it. The knowing can ease our minds a bit.

17 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

When this is all over I’m going to feel so proud of myself . I feel strong and I know it will pass.  I didn’t realise how patient I have become and less fearful too 😊

YES, love this one.
Sending you good vibes, don’t need to send you strength, you already have it🙏

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

hi Alto I need to take an antibiotic for persistent cough are there any I should avoid ?

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on this site.  I prefer to use a search engine and add site: survivingantidepressants.org to my search term.

 

Try doing this for antibiotics.

[Longroadhome]

Thank you I’ll do that 

[Longroadhome]

1 hour ago, Longroadhome said:

Thank you I’ll do that 

@ChessieCat

 

iVe used search engine Doesn’t give specifics but amoxicillin seems to be the main one given for coughs 

I know there are ones I should avoid do you know the names of these?  

thanks Chessie