Longroadhome: think I may be tapering Seroxat / Paxil too fast

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

2nd September 

 

4:30am.             Woke up cortisol spike palpitations         
                            Moderate anxiety dozed thereafter

7am.                    12.5mg pregabalin 

7:10am.             Walking dog agitation started  and 

                            Slowly increased

8am.                  Getting ready for work. Breakfast     
                           Anxiety picking up agitation severe

 8:30am.            4.8mg Paxil 

10am.                Work.   Agitation decreases a little 

                           Feeling of wanting to jump up and 

                           Scream  decreases to tapping my                    
                           Foot  And feeling extremely tense 

These symptoms continued all morning with agitation in the background but very much there 
1pm.                  Lunch 

2pm.                 Home. Very agitated couldn’t calm

                          Down but not extreme like morning 

home all afternoon and evening . Symptoms of anxiety agitation and off balance remained moderate but manageable . 
6:30pm.          Dinner 
7pm.               12.5mg pregabalin. Symptoms did not 

                        Increase after this dose they remained 

                         Manageable 
 9pm.              Watching tv   Symptoms decreased a   
                         Little 

10:50pm.       Bed

 

 

After taking my morning dose of pregabalin agitation came on and increased until it became severe along with off balance and anxiety which were moderate . I felt significantly worse after taking it.    

[Altostrata]

How do you feel in the hour before taking it? 6 a.m.-7 a.m.?

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

Between the hours of 6am and 7am I can feel agitation and a low current internal like all my muscles in body have an electrical current running through them . The unbalance is  there and the anxiety. 

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

3rd October 

 

4:40am.        Woke up symptoms of anxiety low 

                       Agitation there but low. Managed to 

                        Doze

7am.             12.5mg pregabalin 

                       15 to 20 minutes after muscles in body

                       Tightened deep inner tremors skin 

                       Becomes tingly and untouchable 

7:30am.        Up walking dog.  Do not feel agitation 

                       Or unbalance So much when walking

8:30am.        4.8mg Paxil  
9:14am.        Agitation and inner tremors become 

                       Unbearable I keep having to tap my 

                       Foot continuously feel compelled to 

                       Scream and run 

10am.           Met up with friend for coffee agitation 

                       And off balance moderate anxiety      
                       Moderate . Breakfast 
11.30am.     At daughters house Symptoms as

                      Above low to moderate

1pm.             Food shopping anxiety and agitation

                      Off balance  Moderate  

2pm.             Lunch. Home.  Agitation high 

3pm.             Prep dinner agitation low to moderate 

                       Anxiety low to moderate off balance 

                       Low to moderate 

4pm - 6pm.  Fell asleep 

6:30pm.        Dinner symptoms as above 

7:30pm.        12.5mg pregabalin 

7:30pm.        Watching tv symptoms manageable 

10:30pm.       Bed 

 

After  my morning dose of pregabalin my symptoms came on strong .
 

the inner trembling feels like internal Akathisia the agitation Is outer Akathisia. When this comes on I have to keep tapping it’s unbearable at times .  
i welcome any suggestions how I can manage this better. Are there any topics on it ? 
 

Thank you 
 

[Altostrata]

May by confounded with symptoms related to Paxil. Please move taking the Paxil later by 1/2 hour per day until you are taking it at noon. Are you able to regularly take it at noon?

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

will do I’ll start To move the time along today. yes I will be able to. 

October 4th 
 

4:20am.          Woke up to new symptom muscles

                         In lower body tummy and legs left

                         In particular spasming inner tremors
                         Can’t touch skin anywhere 

                         / internal Akathisia   Dozed
7am                12.5mg. Pregabalin

8am.                Breakfast nauseous ate a little  

                         Porridge 

8:30am.           4.8mg Paxil 

feeling extremely anxious and agitated/akathesia 

9.30am.        Walked dog with friend . Akithisia /very

                       Agitated internal akathesia too like an 

                       Electrical current running through all 

                       Body can’t touch skin 

11am.            At home for the day now . Symptoms 

                       As above don’t let up . Unable to take

                       My mind off them. This makes my 

                       Anxiety extremely high and I feel

                       Panic Rising on and off . Use mindful
                      technics to cope . Can’t stop moving 

                      Foot akathesia unbearable off balance 

                      Moderate 

1pm.             Lunch 

5pm.             Cook dinner . Sit down to dinner 

                      Symptoms as above 

7pm.             12. 5 mg pregabalin 

8pm.            Finally symptoms have abated .

                     Watching tv 

10:15pm.    Bed 

This morning new unpleasant symptoms came  on 2.5 hours before pregabalin dose . 
After taking pregabalin I did not feel the “ramp up” of symptoms like the previous two days . It was more a slow rise in akathesia. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Rather than calling the sensation "akathisia", please describe it.

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

October 5th 2020

 

4:45am.          Woke up calm body at first then 

                         symptoms started to appear within

                          minutes. 

                         Muscle spasms particularly lower

                         tummy,  contracting. When this

                         happens  skin Is uncomfortable to

                         touch. 
7am.                12.5mg. Pregabalin 

7:10am.          Walked dog. Symptoms a little more

                         severe. Inner body tremors feels like 

                         electrical current running through 

                         entire body. Feel like I want to scream

                         and run. Can’t touch skin it is super

                         sensitive

                         Anxiety very high

8:30am.          Breakfast

9am.               4.8mg Paxil 

9.20am.         Work. Internal tremor has decreased 

                        along with the urge to run and scream
10:10am.       Spurt of intense anxiety. Tummy 

                        contracts palpitations sweating floaty

                        boat feeling 

12.30pm.       Lunch. Symptoms 

                        manageable with short intervals of 

                        Symptoms feeling at a low level 
2pm.               Coffee with daughter . Anxiety low

                        Agitation low off balance moderate 

3:15pm.          Food shopping symptoms low

4:30pm.        Home. Floaty boat feeling has come on 

                       quite intense. Didn’t last long subsided

5pm.              Prep dinner

5:30pm.         Watching tv symptoms low 

6:45pm.         12.5mg pregabalin 

7pm.               Friend came round for dinner 

                        symptoms low 

11pm.            Bed 

Symptoms  seem to be cycling  throughout the day. Contracting muscles to intense agitation to floaty boat. None go away altogether they hover in the background while one becomes more intense. 
 

Two hours before taking morning pregabalin  symptoms started. They continued to cycle after the dose.  

                         

[Sottana]

@Longroadhome ever think of cutting out the coffee? 

[Longroadhome]

@Sottana

 

Hi

I always drink de caffeinated coffee . Same with tea. Although I know they still contain a little caffeine I haven’t noticed symptoms any different afterwards . 

How about you what’s your drink of choice ? 

 

[Sottana]

@Longroadhome I’d try cutting out all caffeine and seeing if jt helps. I usually just drink water with lemon, LRH ❤️

[Longroadhome]

Yes I might actually give it a go . Mint or ginger herbal teas contain no caffeine at all and good for the digestion . 
 

[Altostrata]

I still can't tell what's going on. With your confounded history, I can't tell if you have withdrawal from pregabalin or paroxetine, or both.

 

I requested you move the Paxil so I could see if you were getting interdose withdrawal from Paxil in the morning. If you don't want to move the Paxil, I can't tell anything.

 

Sorry, I don't believe I can help you.

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

thank you I do understand. I also think it’s impossible to say what’s happening from my symptom pattern 
 

I'm moving my Paxil dose by half an hour each day  as you said And will continue to do this so I will start to regular dose Paxil at 12 midday  
 

I will keep my notes going but not on thread and I Thank you for your help Alto . 

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

I was just wondering is there any point in moving the Paxil dose now you are not looking over my notes ? 
I have so far moved it along from 8:30am to 10am? 
 

Also the pregabalin doses are 12 hours apart 7am and 7pm . When the half life is 6hrs. 
 

i moved so that you could maybe see which one was causing the problem . Therefore do you still want me to move the Paxil to 12 noon and send you a weeks worth of daily notes to see if you can see a pattern of symptoms?  
 

if not what is the. best times to take these drugs going forward. 
 

original times 

8:30am.   Paxil 

10am.      Pregabalin 

4pm.        Pregabalin 

 

changes times 

7am.            Pregabalin 

12 noon      Paxil 

7pm.            Pregabalin 

 

it doesn’t make sense keeping them at changed times mainly because of pregabalin half life if you’re not going to look over daily notes . 
 

Thank you 

[Altostrata]

I asked you to take pregabalin at 12 hour intervals to see what each dose does, and to see if it's causing interdose withdrawal.

 

As I explained before (maybe several times now?), if you move the Paxil apart from the pregabalin, your symptom pattern may indicate whether your symptoms are related to Paxil.

 

I cannot tell from your recent daily notes if you are having an adverse reaction to the early dose of pregabalin. Since you do not have the same reaction to the nighttime dose, that seems unlikely. Therefore, the symptoms you feel in the early part of the day may be related to the Paxil.

 

As I said before, 12 noon would be a good time to take Paxil, keeping the rest of your drug schedule the same.

 

I asked for 24 hours of notes at a time.

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

Thanks for prompt reply Alt I  do appreciate.  I know how much time you spend trying to help us all . And I do understand your frustration ..

 

I’ll be at 12 noon Paxil dose this Sunday therefore I’ll post 24 hours of  notes to you starting next Monday.  . 
 

Thank you 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Longroadhome,

Was just dropping by to see how you're doing. I see you're making some time changes with doses...really hoping this can shed some light on things. Sending a big hug and good wishes for recovery xxx

[Longroadhome]

Hi @sunnysideup69

 

thank you  for thinking of me. 
 

yes changing my dose times to see if I can shed any light on which ones causing the problem . 
though I think I’ll end up waiting it out to stabilise . 

my own fault for tapering two. 

just read yr weekly update all sounds good to me . Great that you have stabilised and  yr days are pretty normal now. It must feel great and such a relief !! 
 
Have  a good  weekend Xx 

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

monday October 12th 

 

4:45am.          Woke up floaty boat/off balance

                         Really strong even though lying

                         Down also high anxiety fast heart

                         beat and sweating 

                         Dozed thereafter  

7am                 12.5mg pregabalin 
7:10am.          Walked dog balance very poor 

                         Anxiety high fast heart sweating
                          Breakfast 

8.10am.          Fast heart beat sweaty neck muscle

                        Spasm feel like I want to scream
9am.                Work. Floaty boat feeling Very

                          Uncomfortable. Tapping foot To

                        detract  from  Uncomfortable           
                           Feeling . This carried on 

                         throughout 

                          the morning along with anxiety 
12noon.            4.8mg. Paxil

1pm.                 Lunch 

2pm.             Home . Still off balance floating  

                       Also have uncoordinated movement

                      arms  and legs. Like ataxia. Not quite   
                     moving  in time

3:30pm.       Out for coffee with husband . Still floaty 

                      But manageable  . De caf

4:30pm.      Home resting

6pm.           Out with husband for dinner . Floaty

                     Feeling increased . Anxiety

                     Manageable 

7pm.           12.5mg pregabalin 

7:30pm.      Home resting . Floaty feeling

                     Uncomfortable Anxiety low 

                     Uncoordinated arms and legs like 

                     Like ataxia gone 

             
10pm.         Bed 

 

 

over the weekend I’ve had  new symptoms. Late Saturday night when first getting into bed face muscles started to tic all over . Felt like every single muscle in my face and hundreds of tics . This was about 10pm and lasted for about 7 minutes .  
 

ive also been getting uncoordinated arm and leg movements .  Not quite in time when walking or picking things up . 
 

weird feeling in head almost like an echo of what I’m saying at the end of speech. 
 

haven’t had the echo or the tics today 

 

 

thank you 
 

  

                      

 

 

                    
 

[Altostrata]

How long have you been taking Paxil at noon?

 

Do you feel better or worse after you take it?

 

What do you mean by "ataxia"? Please describe the sensations, don't use a symptom term.

[Longroadhome]

Hi Alto 

Started taking Paxil at noon from yesterday . spent last week changing time slots daily to get there. 
 

yesterday after taking it at 12 midday My symptoms felt a little easier. Not much but a little. 
round about 6:30pm the floaty feeling got more uncomfortable . 6:5 hours after my dose.
 

i have described ataxia symptoms Look at 2pm yesterday. 
Arms and legs slow off the mark not quite responding in time if I’m picking something up or walking . Rather like a one second  slow time delay. 
 

 

[Altostrata]

I need to see more of your symptom pattern with the current drug schedule.

 

Do you mean you are uncoordinated?

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

yes uncoordinated. 

 

As I want to rule out many Symptoms I have that may be mimicking other problems or illnesses yesterday I had an appointment with a dermatologist about my hives and hair loss. My hives are much better and she was surprised that I don’t take medication . So that was good news . Never had these before WD. She sees no reason why this problem won’t go away altogether. Hair loss is a different matter . She can see loss all over and has arranged blood tests to rule out anything  medical. . If they all come back normal then at least I’ll know what’s causing it . Never had problem with hair loss/breakage before WD. 
 

today I have an appointment with a neurologist concerning my balance and numbness/tingles in arms and legs . I would like tests to rule out any medical problems like MS to put my mind at rest. 
 

Friday I have an appointment with an ENT specialist as obviously balance issues can have something to do with the inner ear. 
 

Monday next week I have appointment with my doctor to ask for blood tests thyroid and full blood count as well as to look for Vitamin deficiencies etc 

 

I will also speak with my doctor about the total lack of support since tapering off my medication and back this up with a letter. 
 

Lastly  I think it’s about time I looked into some form of counselling.  I do not really speak with family about what I am going through they do not understand . 
 

 I’m not a Hypochondriac never have been I’m just stuck in the misery of WD. 
 

daily notes to follow ..

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

Tuesday October 14th 
 

4:30am.         Woke up to a Rocky off balance 

                        Feeling . Very strong. neck muscle     
                        Spasms and new weird feeling in head

                        Like a squeeze of my brain muscle 

                        Didn’t go back to sleep

7am.             12.5mg Pregabalin 

8.30am.        Breakfast. Rocky off balance feeling 

                      Stronger than it’s ever been before

10am.           Popped into work neck muscle spasms

                      Stronger than they have been before

                      feel like I can’t swallow very off

                       balance tremors and high anxiety 
11am.           Home. Lying down slight  vertigo very 

                      Off balance feels like the room is about

                      To spin . Stay on settee most of the day

                      Symptoms do not abate. Light lunch  

12 midday.  4.8mg Paxil 

3:30pm.       Pain in back of head and shoulders            
                      Very uncomfortable 

5pm.            Can’t lie down any longer daughter 

                     Comes to pick me up to go pick 

                     Granddaughter up from nursery 

                     Head feels like ten ton weight neck

                     Muscles extremely tight anxious 

5:50pm.      Dinner at daughters . Head still

                     Feels heavy and  Floaty boat intense
6:30pm.      Make my excuses and leave

6:45pm.      Home. Lying down though doesn’t 

                     Make any difference to off balance

                     Floaty feeling still intense 

7pm.           12.5mg pregabalin 

7:10pm.      Watching tv can’t get comfortable      
                     Floaty boat head sensation makes me 

                     Very anxious 

9:30pm.       Bed 

 

today has been the worst day yet. These symptoms have got progressively worse since the taper and double dose. The last two weeks has seen symptoms reach a peak with new ones joining daily.  
There was no difference today before or after taking Paxil . Symptoms were unrelenting.  
 

Fingers crossed tomorrow is better. 

thank you Alto

 

       

 

  

 

 

[Altostrata]

Do you feel better or worse after taking each of your drugs?

[Longroadhome]

For the record 

today I had appointment with neurologist. 
he has booked me in for MRI Scan  of brain and neck of which I’m pleased about. Physical tests seemed fine so that was good too! 
 

Regarding floaty off balance feeling he said unlikely to be Paxil or pregabalin WD after 10 weeks as symptoms would come on straight away and go off after a few weeks ... ok this is where I start to lose confidence in him. He then goes on to say some people have to  tske SSRI fir life because they have an imbalance . He said it is not like if someone has a bereavement and has to take them for a short while . Some people are naturally happy while others have “that bit missing” and need support all their lives with SSRIs. 
 

I sat and gave the biggest smirk I could manage . 
I obviously have “that bit missing “ then !!!!! 
oh boy there’s no hope . 

[Longroadhome]

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Do you feel better or worse after taking each of your drugs?

I feel worse especially the last 10 days or so . 

[Altostrata]

Please look at that question carefully and answer it, please.

[Longroadhome]

After taking morning pregabalin I feel worse. Symptoms ramp up over the course of an hour .

 

after taking lunch time Paxil since changing dose times I feel worse.  
 

after taking evening pregabalin My symptoms usually feel easier / better but not this week . 
 

 

  

[Longroadhome]

@Altostrata

 

14th October 

 

4:30am.        Woke up.feeling the floaty boat 

                       Symptoms but managed to get 

                       Back off to sleep

7am.             Woke up.  12. 5mg pregabalin 
7:40am.       Walked dog. High anxiety fast beating 

                       Heart and sweaty floaty boat feeling 

                       Neck muscle spasms all intense

8:30am.       Breakfast 

10am.          Work. Neck muscle spasm very intense 

                     Floaty boat very intense but managed to

                    Work through 

I could have stayed at home today but chose not to . When I feel as bad as this I need company to take my mind off me

12 midday  4.8mg Paxil 

1pm.           Lunch . Symptoms have remained at the

                    Same peak . No change so far after Paxil 

                   dose

3pm.          Appointment neuro surgeon 

symptoms have not decreased in intensity . Neck muscles spasm in seconds and very painful . Floaty boat off balance intense I have to tap my foot continuously otherwise the feeling is extremely uncomfortable 

 

4pm.      Home and resting feeling calmer for the 

               First time today . Symptoms less 

6pm.      Sisters house and dinner 
7pm.      12.5mg pregabalin 

 

my symptoms of neck muscle spasms and floaty boat are more manageable from 4pm But still uncomfortable 

they remain at this level all evening they do not increase or decrease

 

10:30pm.     Home and bed

 

 

after the morning dose of pregabalin my symptoms ramped up . Worse sfter the dose 
 

after the midday dose of Paxil my symptoms started to be more bearable from 4pm onwards . Before this dose my symptoms had peaked. Therefore better after the dose 

 

after the 7pm dose of pregabalin there was no difference in symptoms either decreasing or increasing. I dud not feel any worse after taking the dose . 
 

haven’t had Akathesia last few days . A bonus !! 

Thank you 

 

Ps I should add I am plagued with many more symptoms but above are the ones that dominate my day 

 

 

[Sottana]

Thinking of you, friend. We’re kind of in the same boat with symptoms lately, huh? Hugs to you!! 

[Longroadhome]

2 minutes ago, Adili13 said:

Thinking of you, friend. We’re kind of in the same boat with symptoms lately, huh? Hugs to you!! 

Hi Adili 

how are you doing today ? 
yeah sounds like we are . 
 

bug hugs right back xx 

[Sottana]

Not the greatest, in all honesty. Just trudging through, my friend. Xxx

[Altostrata]

It appears to me that you are having withdrawal symptoms from Paxil, which are alleviated when the Paxil you take at noon gets into your system several hours later.

 

It does not seem like the pregabalin is doing anything useful.

 

One way to deal with this is add 1mg Prozac in preparation for a cross-over to Prozac from Paxil.

 

This is likely to work, but I cannot assure you it will work.

[Longroadhome]

Firstly @Altostrata

 

Thank you so much for your support . I truly don’t know what would have happened to me if I hadn’t of found SA . 
 

I completely agree with what you are sayIng  regarding pregabalin not doing anything and Paxil kicking in during the afternoon. 
 

Questions I have ;

 

if I change  over to  Prozac will I have to remain on pregabalin until I taper Prozac? 
 

after chsnge over what will Prozac dose look like . Would it be around half of the dose I’m on now with Paxil this being 4.8mg  so would I be looking at 2.5 maybe? 

if I remain on Paxil will I eventually stabilise And then be able to continue my taper ? 
 

lastly if I did swap over and Prozac didn’t work what would be my options ? Hanna72 tapered off Prozac after the bridge very quickly and managed it but I’m guessing that’s not what you would advise . 
 

Thank you