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Want2Want2

Hi yall,

 

So much to say, but little time now.  Will be back w/more info soon.  Glad to be here.  Currently struggling with ongoing apathy, indifference, just-not-caring, from initial (and fairly immediate) introduction of Zoloft in 2013.  It has persisted since then whether on or off medication, although it IS dose dependent w/Prozac.  Reading this forum has been instrumental in my previous tapering but only now have I created an account.  So thanks to all, especially Altostrata.  I know there are much more difficult symptoms, as I've had many of them in the past, but this indifference seems to have completely (permanently?) changed my personality.  Preparing to discontinue current doses of 10mg Prozac and 150mg Wellbutrin, beginning in April.

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ChessieCat

Hi Want2Want2 and welcome to SA,

 

I'm pleased to read that you have been getting information from SA even though you didn't join before,  However, you have now and we can support you with your taper.  Because we don't know what you already have knowledge about, I will give you all the information anyway to ensure that you haven't missed anything.

 

Thank you for creating your drug signature.  Please put your current drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker and copy and paste the results in a post here in your Introduction topic.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

When the drug is taken away too quickly we can get withdrawal symptoms:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

This topic has links to different drugs and they explain how to get the dose you need:  Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

Tapering Calculator - Online

 

I will ask the other mods for their assistance about which drug would be better to taper first.

 

I will provide more information in the next couple of posts.  This is your own introductions topic where your can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.

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ChessieCat

Here's some additional information which might help you to understand what is happening:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

Withdrawal Normal Description


When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

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ChessieCat

Here's some additional information which might help you to understand what is happening:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

Withdrawal Normal Description


When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

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Want2Want2

Hello C.Cat.  It's nice to meet you.  Thanks so much for your personalized welcome and informative links.

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Altostrata

Welcome, Want2Want2.

 

When you say the emotional anesthesia is dose-dependent with Prozac, what do you mean? How does it vary?

 

Why are you taking Wellbutrin with Prozac?

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Want2Want2

Hi Alto,  Thanks for your reply.  

 

Sorry, I see how that wasn't very clear.  A higher dose of Prozac causes increased apathy, just-not-caring, indifference, emotional blunting.  I sort of see the apathy as a more insidious, 'softer', sub-surface  aspect of emotiinal blunting.  I definitely have that as well.  Loss of feelings of passion,  no sadness at the death of a dear relative, etc. etc. etc.

 

The Wellbutrin was to help with the apathy, indifference, resulting lack of motivation and sex drive.  It did very little.

 

The Emotional Anesthesia began with:

50mg Zoloft Feb. 2013.  Fairly immediate absence of emotion for things that I usually cared about or moved me emotionally.  Of particular concern and most striking was loss of interest and/or being moved by music, one of my very few passions.  Loss of any interest in historical preservation, antiques (no sense of nostalgia), environmental preservation, animal welfare.  Loss of empathy generally.  These were all defining characteristics of my personality.  Continues w/ current medication, maybe slightly better w/ Prozac vs. Zoloft.

 

Is emotional anesthesia the more accurate term for what I'm describing?  In your experience can I expect these things to return in time, after tapering?

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Carmie

Hi Want2Want2,

 

Welcome to SA from me too. I’m sorry you’re suffering from apathy and emotional blunting. Anhedonia is a very common symptom on these medications, and also during withdrawals. It comes and goes with me, sometimes I can be surrounded by the most beautiful nature (nature freak here), but I can’t experience it. I feel totally numb. I remember once I went through a long period of this, and then all of a sudden I saw some beautiful yellow flowers and I could feel the joy again.

 

The anhedonia will eventually go, no one can say when though. There is absolutely nothing linear about withdrawals.

 

Wishing you all the best in your healing💚

 

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Want2Want2

Hi Carmie.  

 

It looks like your having great success with your taper. From 300 to 7.5.  Congratulations!  That's a serious accomplishment.

 

Thanks so much for your inspirational message.  It really gives me hope.  I often feel like the anhedonia seems pretty meaningless and unimportant especially to those currently suffering with the more debilitating withdrawel effects, which I've also had in the past.  It was especially terrible with Effexor.  From 225 to 0 over 3-4 months, which at the time (2005) I thought was a pretty slow go.  I see now, it was really pretty fast.  In writing this now and looking back, it gives me the perspective that although perhaps very slow, the emotional effects, in that case emotional lability, do in fact dissipate.  I think about a year or year and a half for complete remission of the lability.   

 

I've taken a hint from your signature and added a little narrative info to mine if you'd like a little more background.

 

 

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Carmie

Hi Want2Want2, 

 

Just popping around to see how you’re doing. Yes, I’m glad I’ve managed to get down to 7.5mg. It’s taken many years though. Getting off that last bit is still going to take many, many more years. I can only taper by around 4% to 5% a month. I won’t be jumping off until I’m down to 0.0something or even lower. Every tiny drop effects me. I’ll get there in the end though, just like everyone else will.

 

I’m so glad to hear that looking back you can see some improvement, even though it seems slow. 

 

Take care, sending hugs 🤗

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Want2Want2

I'm going to begin cutting my wellbutrin dose soon and will have to go to a liquid solution.  Most of the posts I've read only mention with water.  I've heard prozac is often mixed with cranberry juice, however I think I read somewhere that fructose may interfere with the chemistry of things.  I've also read about mixing the medication with apple sauce.  Are all of these viable methods?  Or is it best to stay away from fruit juices?  Could a carbonated beverage be used just as well?  Thanks yall.

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manymoretodays

Hi Want2Want2 and welcome back,

I just moved your last post from the tapering section back here to your main introduction page.  This is a good place to ask these kind of questions, specific to your case.

 

7 hours ago, Want2Want2 said:

I'm going to begin cutting my wellbutrin dose soon and will have to go to a liquid solution.  Most of the posts I've read only mention with water.  I've heard prozac is often mixed with cranberry juice, however I think I read somewhere that fructose may interfere with the chemistry of things.  I've also read about mixing the medication with apple sauce.  Are all of these viable methods?  Or is it best to stay away from fruit juices?  Could a carbonated beverage be used just as well?  Thanks yall.

 

Here's some more information specific to Wellbutrin to get started getting your question(s) answered.

Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL(buproprion)

 

What form of Wellbutrin are you thinking of tapering?  And how have you been tapering it thus far, if tapering it at all?

 

And how has your Prozac tapering been going?  I see you are down to 8 mg now.  Well done!

 

We're happy to help you with tapering decisions.  So fill us in a bit more here.  Nice update on your signature!  Thank you.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

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