DogLover: Effexor 12 months in

[Shep]

Excellent news, DL. I hope this good sleeping trend continues. 

[DogLover]

not doing good.

 

[Shep]

Please give us your symptoms, DL. You may be in a wave, which will pass. 

[DogLover]

Anxiety. Panic. I'm walking all day. Hot flashes.

[Shep]

On 3/25/2019 at 11:28 PM, DogLover said:

heading advice as i understand it, i'm taking lorazepam chips 0.1mg (est) morning noon and night for a few days to taper.

 

13 hours ago, DogLover said:

Anxiety. Panic. I'm walking all day. Hot flashes.

 

You may be dependent on the benzo. Are you completely off the benzo now?

 

If your symptoms are severe, try taking a small rescue dose. If your symptoms subside, then it may be benzo withdrawal. 

 

If that's the case, you'll want to go back on the lowest dose that helps with your symptoms. You'll want to stay on the benzo, taking it at the same time every day, until you're off the antidepressant and then do a slow taper off the benzo. 

 

Please post your thoughts. 

[DogLover]

Hey, Shep.

I've been on a straight schedule of 3  0.1 lorazepam doses spread throughout the day since March 25.

 

It's been a horror show starting in Feb.  I'm afraid that I'm going to lose my financial ability and need to get my life back.
 

[Shep]

19 hours ago, DogLover said:

I've been on a straight schedule of 3  0.1 lorazepam doses spread throughout the day since March 25.

 

Do you feel you're dependent?

 

Please see my previous post. 

 

On 3/29/2019 at 8:34 AM, Shep said:

You may be dependent on the benzo. Are you completely off the benzo now?

 

If your symptoms are severe, try taking a small rescue dose. If your symptoms subside, then it may be benzo withdrawal. 

 

If that's the case, you'll want to go back on the lowest dose that helps with your symptoms. You'll want to stay on the benzo, taking it at the same time every day, until you're off the antidepressant and then do a slow taper off the benzo. 

 

[DogLover]

I may be dependent, but it is confusing. Sometimes my symptoms are very bad even if I've had my benzo. Then, other times my symptoms calm down in the space between doses. 

 

Like I say, i'm on ~0.1mg doses 3X divided throughout the day. I'm leery of rescue doses, because of where that leads, but I'll keep that option. 

 

Do you have an advise on my Effexor dosing?

 

(I haven't pasted my log, but will get to that shortly.)

[DogLover]

Is there anyone that can help advise me on my Effexor dose?

I'm worried that my harsh symptoms will go on long enough to undermine my ability to support myself. What are the risk/rewards for upping my dose for symptom relief?

Currently, I'm getting some windows, but the waves have me frantic. The only thing I can do to manage symptoms is walk. Lately I've been walking for an hour at in the am and an hour in the pm.  I almost made a pdoc appointment, but the only thing they are going to do is hand me another bunch of pills. I'm fine with losing  a year of tapering if I can manage to keep my life together.

[Altostrata]

You started 15 beads March 19 and have had some improvement. Windows are a good sign.

 

What are these harsh symptoms? What is your current drug schedule and symptom log?

[DogLover]

3-25
9am little sleep, 400mg Mag., 1300mg Inositol
10    breathing Anxiety(2/5)
11    Anxiety (3/5)
12   Layed down meditate A(3/5)
2:30   ~.1mg loraz
4    A(3/5)
5    400mg Mag, 1300mg Inositol
6    A(2.5/5)
7    A(2.5/5)
8    ~.1mg loraz
9    400mg Mag, 1300 Inositol
9:30 A(1/5) Window??
11 15bbs Effexor, 10mg Melatonin
12 Sleep

 

3-26
5am woke A(1:5)
8   broken sleep, calm
9   shower, calm
10  ~0.1 lorazepam, 400mg Mag, 1300mg Inositol
12  A(1/5), slight waves of panic the go away (1-2 minutes)
1   A(1/5) Calm
2   Stress comes for few seconds and goes away
5   0.1 lorazepam
8   walk 0.1 lorazepam
9   anxiety building but still A(1/5)
11  15BBS Effexor, 10mg Melatonin

3-27
4am  broken sleep A(2/5)
8    0.1 lorazepam, Cold shower A(2/5)
9   400mg Mag, 1300mg Inositol
12  A(3/5)
1   A(1/5)
3   0.1 lorazepam, 400mg Mag, 1300 Inositol
    A(3/5)
4   A(2/5)
5   Long walk A(3/5)
6  pacing A(3/5)
7  pacing A(3/5)
9  0.1 lorazepam
10 1.5 hour walk
11 15BBS Effexor, 10mg Melatonin

 

3-28
5am woke, slept good
7   woke
9   woke, A(2/5)
10  0.1 lorazepam
1   0.1 lorazepam
2   basketcase, A(3/5)
2:30 A(1/5) mellow
5  anxiety building
7  A(1/5)
10 Oddly calm A(1/5)
8  400 Magnesium, 1300 Inositol
11 15 BBs Effexor, 0.1 lorazepam

 

3-29
5am woke, meditation A(2/5)
9  0.1 lorazepam, 400mg Mag, 1300mg Inositol
9:30 A(2/5)
10 5 Mile walk
11 A(2/5)
12 A(2/5)
3  400mg Mag, 1300mg Inositol
   0.1 lorazepam
6  A(3/5) doing bad
8  0.1 lorazepam, 400mg Mag, 1300mg Inositol
   2 mile walk
11  15BBS Effexor, 10mg Melatonin

 

A(1/5): Able to function, but not concentrate

A(2/5):  Barely functioning, can't concentrate, need breathing exercises 

A(3/5): Highly agitated, need to pace/walk, rambling

A(4/5): Physical symptoms like vomiting

A(5/5): Calling 911

 

I was just reading this and it seems like every other day I'm having some kind of spazz attack. Hmmmm...

 

 

[Altostrata]

You're taking lorazepam at random times. What is "~.1mg loraz" -- how much is that? @Shep

 

What does "doing bad" mean? What symptoms are harsh? When do they occur?

[DogLover]

~.1mg of lorazepam is approximately .1mg. I don't measure the dosage accurately, but take a little chip off half a pill. In my guesstimation it looks to be about 1/10th of a pill.

 

 

The symptoms are a constant worrying, paranoia and almost terror. Aside from the little windows, I CAN NOT SETTLE DOWN. I worry about everything and can't concentrate. I'm a nervous basketcase and unable to perform simple daily tasks. My days consist of pacing and walking in circles.

 

When do they occur? Starting in Feb, they began to bother me in the morning, but as of late they are spreading into all day. The only time I seem to get a little break is right before bed.

HOWEVER!!! Today, right now, I have NO symptoms. My morning was harsh, but after about noon, I was able to relax.

 

[Shep]

12 hours ago, DogLover said:

HOWEVER!!! Today, right now, I have NO symptoms. My morning was harsh, but after about noon, I was able to relax.

 

You may be going through the windows and waves of benzo withdrawal. 

 

How long have you been on a daily dose of lorazepam? As I mentioned on March 23, benzo dependency forms in as little as 2 - 4 weeks, so if your goal is to come off before reaching dependency (if you haven't already become dependent with periodic use), you are getting close to when you really need to get off it.

 

Again, it's possible you are dependent, so you'll have to weigh the cost of going off it and handling the wild ride of windows and waves or go on a regular dose of it daily and taper off it after you come off the Effexor. 

 

If the symptoms are manageable, you may be better coming off it. But please do a lot of self care, as it could be a bumpy ride. 

 

13 hours ago, DogLover said:

10mg Melatonin

 

This is quite a high dose of melatonin. Howe long have you been on this at 10 mg?

 

Please see:

 

Melatonin for sleep

 

Please don't make any changes to this while you are still dealing with benzo changes, but I did want to bring it to your attention so you could do some reading. 

 

[DogLover]

Thank you do much Shep,

 

I'm surprised about the concern over lorazpam, but you have much more knowledge than I. At such low doses, I viewed it as a non-factor. From my notes, I'm only taking about 0.3mg per day. Today, I only took a spec of it. 0.05mg? It was like a few grains of salt. I will make great effort to quit taking it.

 

Last week I ran out of my 3mg melatonin and accidentally bought 10mg. I was able to get more 3mg today.

Yesterday was a pretty good day and today I'm hanging on without freaking out. I feel the anxiety knocking at my door,  but I've yet to let it in. Last week, I felt like I was having a meltdown every day and experiencing little to no windows. Over the last few days, I feel like it's flipped. If the windows are becoming longer, and the waves are shorter, maybe I'm nearing the end of my downward spiral.

Sorry to be such a needy drag. And thank you for your advice.

[Altostrata]

21 hours ago, DogLover said:

When do they occur? Starting in Feb, they began to bother me in the morning, but as of late they are spreading into all day. The only time I seem to get a little break is right before bed.

 

 

Do you mean February 2019? Were there any times you accidentally skipped a dose, or took it late? How old are your Effexor capsules?

 

Yes, even a teeny bit of a benzo can cause rebound anxiety when it wears off. That is why benzos are known as horrible drugs, they cause the same symptoms they're supposed to suppress and convince people to take more and more of them.

[DogLover]

Alto,

 

Yes, Feb 2019. No, I haven't skipped or taken a a dose late. I take the dose at 11pm every night. My Effexor capsules expire late this year. I think in Sept.

Wow. I didn't think benzos were that evil.  Conversely, should I be able to feel the affects of just a tiny spec?

[Shep]

16 hours ago, DogLover said:

I'm surprised about the concern over lorazpam, but you have much more knowledge than I. At such low doses, I viewed it as a non-factor. From my notes, I'm only taking about 0.3mg per day. Today, I only took a spec of it. 0.05mg? It was like a few grains of salt. I will make great effort to quit taking it.

 

 

Lorazepam is a very potent benzo. Just 1 mg of lorazepam equals 10 mg of Valium. And a lot of benzo withdrawal experts will say there isn't such a thing as a "low dose" of a benzo. They are very powerful drugs. 

 

If you're down to .05 mg and doing well, please go ahead and stop. 

 

You clearly had some dependency that had already developed. This means you are at risk for kindling should you ever go back on a benzo. Please see:

 

Kindling - Sedative, hypnotic withdrawal

 

For this reason, please only take another benzo for surgery or an emergency. It's too risky to ever use this class of drugs again. 

 

16 hours ago, DogLover said:

Yesterday was a pretty good day and today I'm hanging on without freaking out. I feel the anxiety knocking at my door,  but I've yet to let it in. Last week, I felt like I was having a meltdown every day and experiencing little to no windows. Over the last few days, I feel like it's flipped. If the windows are becoming longer, and the waves are shorter, maybe I'm nearing the end of my downward spiral.

 

This is excellent. I'm glad you're doing better. 

[DogLover]

Yesterday was a hard day full of anxiety. I walked maybe 10 miles. Right now I'm having a hard time.

 

My lorazepam is down to little trace amounts. I take a tiny chip break it up and dip my pinky in the powder. It's hard for me to describe the amount, but it's small. I'll try to quit completely. I'm scared.  

 

My mom is pressuring me to see a pdoc. I don't have one at the moment, so it will be a chore finding one and I don't know if it will do any good. They're just going to throw more pills at me. I know I tapered way too fast and keep wondering if a large reinstatement dose will provide some relief. It's been two full months of near-constant anxiety and I don't know how much more I can take. I've been through every non-drug technique to cope with anxiety, but after a while that's all you end up doing all day.

 

Sometimes my outlook is so bleak. It's been two months and I'm unable to work. Large problems are going to result in the near future. It's hard to keep things together when all you can do is pace and walk.

 

I'm starting chickening out on tapering Effexor, but I'm afraid the a reinstatement would make things worse.

[DogLover]

A couple of things,

 

@ShepToday I only took one tiny "pinky dab" of benzo in the morning. Yes, it was a rough day, but I'm not so sure if it was because of me being worried about the benzo, the benzo or both. I will try to get to bed tonight without it.

 

I spent some time practicing letting anxiety wash over me by sitting back, concentrating and really exploring all the physical sensations it is causing: hot feeling in my head, electric buzzing sensation in my arms and esophagus, etc etc. I noticed something quite remarkable. As I did this, it stayed with me for a moment and began to dissipate. I'm currently anticipating the next one.

[Shep]

12 hours ago, DogLover said:

I spent some time practicing letting anxiety wash over me by sitting back, concentrating and really exploring all the physical sensations it is causing: hot feeling in my head, electric buzzing sensation in my arms and esophagus, etc etc. I noticed something quite remarkable. As I did this, it stayed with me for a moment and began to dissipate. I'm currently anticipating the next one.

 

If you can use this as a way of practicing mindfulness and anxiety-reducing exercises, you will come out of this experience much stronger than you came into it. 

 

This is a great video I used during acute withdrawal before bed.

 

Guided Meditation Deep sleep | anxiety and insomnia relief | relaxation before bedtime video (20 minutes)

 

The body scan meditation is another great one to use before bed.

 

Jon Kabat Zinn Breathscape And Bodyscape guided meditation, mindfulness 20 minutes [BEGINNER] video (20 minutes)

 

And this is a free online 8 week mindfulness course:

 

Online Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) 

 

If none of these are helpful, there are a ton of other ways of learning to cope without drugs. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

If the anxiety gets too intense to really focus on something, try getting up and going for a walk or putting on some music or "change the channel" as explained here:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

[DogLover]

thanks for the links shep.

 

i took only  a trace amount of benzo yesterday morning and so far none today. i dont know if its related, but last night was the first night of uninterupted sleep ive had in over a month.

 

 

[DogLover]

@Shep, in light of your avatar I thought you might like this. You probably have already seen it, but who knows.

 

[DogLover]

no benzo today. i feel less panicky, but still have a coffee type jitteriness.

 

could all that panic and terror be from the benzo?

[Shep]

18 hours ago, DogLover said:

@Shep, in light of your avatar I thought you might like this. You probably have already seen it, but who knows.

 

LOL, I hadn't seen that one. It's a good one. 

 

8 hours ago, DogLover said:

no benzo today. i feel less panicky, but still have a coffee type jitteriness.

 

could all that panic and terror be from the benzo?

 

It could be. If the panic and terror is earlier in the day, it could be from an early morning cortisol spike. 

[DogLover]

Another high anxiety day. Pretty hard. Felt better around 4pm

 

[DogLover]

Feeling so defeated in life. I get a window here and there, but I'm just so tired of being crazy: anxiety, fear, worry. It doesn't stop. I wish I knew how much longer this was going to be so bad.

 

My daily drug journal is down to:

 

9 am - 400 mg Mag and 1300 mg Inositol

9pm - 400mg Mag and 1300 mg Inositol

11 pm - 15BBS of Effexor, 3mg Melatonin

(benzo free for 2 days.)

 

Family pressure to see a psych. Don't know what to do.  Desperately thinking of large Effexor updose or perhaps SAMe. Not stupid, desperate. Please advise.

 

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi DogLover, 

 

Sorry you’re struggling so much. I’m going through major waves myself. I go through waves every time I taper, no matter how small my tapering percentage is. There is no way of escaping the waves, except to keep surfing them. 🏄🏻‍♀️ I have a million distractions to keep me going when withdrawals are severe. They don’t get rid of the symptoms, but they help me to focus on something else. I do arts and crafts, watch DVDs and Netflix, listen to music, read etc etc. You need to find yourself some good distractions.

 

SAMEe is something we shouldn’t be taking during withdrawals, it can make things worse. There’s a thread on it in Symptoms And Self Care. 

 

Updosing a large amount of Effexor can actually end up making your brain more unstable. You only just updosed on the 19th of last month. It can take quite a long time for an updose to kick in. It hasn’t even been a month since you updosed.

 

You need to find yourself some coping strategies and distractions that work for you. Go out in nature, start practicing EFT or FasterEFT. I have found FasterEFT extremely beneficial in the past. At the moment, my main strategy is distractions. I’ve found that journaling is also beneficial. If we focus on the symptoms too much we just get more stressed, and that in turn, makes our symptoms worse. 

 

Take care, sending hugs 🤗

[DogLover]

Thank you Carmie.

[DogLover]

carmie,

 

sorry to be so gloom and doom.  im doing way better now, it was such a rough day. i can tell from your posts you are such a kind warm person. thank you for the post.

 

 

[Carmie]

3 hours ago, DogLover said:

carmie,

 

sorry to be so gloom and doom.  im doing way better now, it was such a rough day. i can tell from your posts you are such a kind warm person. thank you for the post.

 

 

 

Hi DogLover, 

 

I’m glad you’re doing better now.💚

[DogLover]

@Carmie  Today has been another hard day. 😞  Very frustrating. I though I was approaching a window/wave pattern of every other day, but the last few days have been wavy.

 

It seems like I worry/pace/walk to the point of exhaustion and then finally settle down when I have no energy left. Then, I get a good night's sleep and the pattern starts all over again. Those around me are asking that I "get help" but I just don't know what kind of help to get. I suppose if a see a psych he/she will put a hand in the magic pill bag and pull out an option and say, "Here, give this a try!"

 

 

 

 

 

[DogLover]

after a rough day yesterday, i got a good night's sleep and woke up in a good, anxiety free day! a few times i thought anxiety was going to take control of me, but it did not. it was a great day.

 

i was beginning to worry the good sleep gave my mind the energy it needed to pump out massive stress.  that cycle has been broken.

 

i'm headed to bed with prayers of another day free of suffering.

[Carmie]

Hi DogLover, 

 

Yay, for a good day! 💚

[rhanch]

On 4/4/2019 at 4:28 PM, Carmie said:

You need to find yourself some coping strategies and distractions that work for you. Go out in nature, start practicing EFT or FasterEFT. I have found FasterEFT extremely beneficial in the past. At the moment, my main strategy is distractions. I’ve found that journaling is also beneficial. If we focus on the symptoms too much we just get more stressed, and that in turn, makes our symptoms worse.  

 

 

I'd have to agree with Carmie.  The core issue, as I view it, is that we have been been mis-instructed over a long period of time about how to deal with our feelings.  Perhaps over decades. You feeling anxious?  We'll uptick your dose of benzodiazapines. Feeling down and depressed? Let's try another antidepressant. Let's face it - life can suck, particularly at certain periods. But most people - unless they are alcoholics or drug addicts - develop more positive ways to deal with the stress and disappointments in life.  Faith in a higher power. A closer connection to the natural world. I've had a great time hiking in the desert and experiencing the fantastic superblooms brought on by recent rains. Even getting on a treadmill for an hour not only helps to burn off the anxiety, but also keeps me in shape. A win-win.

[DogLover]

I don't know it these means anything, but the anxiety I feel is less prevalent in my body. I still worry and obsess almost non-stop, but that electric feeling that kinda pulsated through my upper body and arms has diminished over the last week.