DogLover: Effexor 12 months in

[Altostrata]

It appears your reinstatement is working, DogLover.

 

You must be patient and let your nervous system settle down. You need to address your habits of mind that cause that worrying, etc. This is working against you. See

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms 

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Pick a technique and practice it. Meditation is very good, requires no special accessories, and you can learn it yourself.

 

Or, if you need a coach, find a peer practice group or a therapist you can see face to face.

[DogLover]

Thanks Alto!

I still get an overstimulated "amped up" feeling, but today and most of yesterday, it's not been too bad. I've been able to sleep throughout the night, however, mornings come complete with cortisol spikes. The good news is that the morning terror have been replaced with morning anxiety.

 

I've been going for 20-40min walks to burn off excess energy, which helps calm me down. I doubt I will think about tapering for the next 6 months.

 

Today was a great day comparatively speaking, and hopefully this trend continues!

 

 

[DogLover]

Today I woke with the normal cortisol spike, but by about 11am it was gone and I had a peaceful day.

 

One down side is that I find myself getting angry. Normal?

[ChessieCat]

SA topics:

 

non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms

 

managing-anger

 

neuro-emotions

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Something I found on the internet:

 

dealing-with-anger-during-ssri-withdrawal

 

which has a comment by SA's founder:

 

"Altostrata Says:
July 2, 2012 at 10:07 pm

Many unpleasant emotions, such as anger, are felt intensely in withdrawal because the regulating system has been disabled by withdrawal and downregulation of serotonin receptors. This enables an abnormally high release of cortisol, which exacerbates anxiety, fear, anger, and depression."

[DogLover]

im getting some relief from the constant fear and anxiety. over the last few days i've been getting a tightness or buzz in my brain. it gives me a wound up jittery feeling that makes it a little hard to function. but ill take that over panic.

 

 

[DogLover]

Lately I've been having such feelings of gloom and doom.

[DogLover]

so in my daily log im adding a tweek scale (1 to 5) of how amped up or tweeking i feel. i guess the feeling is similar to how meth users get. i once knew a guy that described meth users in prison as being unable to sit down, relax and that they pace constantly. that sounds like me!

 

sense in wd, ive been mostly unable to settle down, causing me to go on 40 min walks twice a day.

 

i also sense that depression is looming in the near future once the tweeking dies down. funny, i haven't been able to cry since january other than a couple of times. sometimes a good half hour cry can really help calm a person

[DogLover]

Sometime if feels like I'm getting worse. Like everyone, I need hope and encouragement, but as the days march on, those things are in short supply.

 

Current Symptoms: Panic/Terror reduced, especially with the physical symptoms. Increasing symptoms of “Tweeking,” a nervous energy that makes me pace, walk and obsess with WD symptoms and everything else. I'm pretty miserable and barely able to function. Sleep getting worse at 5 hrs. night.

 

My knowledge about WD is somewhat limited, although I have read much on SA, I know my reinstatement window in all likelyhood is closing. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing.

 

I has been about a month since my 3BBS Effexor updose (15BBS daily)

 

Options I see:

  1. Updose monthly (10%-15%-?%) until I get to a point where I'm better able to function.

  2. Remain steady with my current dose and deal with the withdrawals as best I can.
 

Any advice or encouragement would be greatly appreciated.

 

[rhanch]

Hi Dog Lover,  Hope you are doing better. The first time I withdrew from Effexor I experienced 'brain zaps'. It's like small bolts of electricity zapping through my brain. Not sure if that's the same as 'tweeking', but since I knew what it was it seemed more annoying than consequential. Especially since that signaled the end of major symptoms.

I don't know how long it should take to withdraw from a long-term antidepressant, I just know that doctors and other experts have varying opinions. And I believe it varies from person to person - their present circumstances, their history, their sensitivity to pain and anxiety. It's not only about how much medication we are taking.

I tend to become more anxious and depressed in Spring - I have no idea why and it's something I'm dealing with.

I also feel that antidepressants can often block out feelings that we need to deal with at the time. But feelings will have their say, eventually, one way or another. I read an article by a woman who withdrew from from Effexor and couldn't begin the mourning process for the death of her father, which happened two years earlier, until she was off the drug.

I see that you post as 'Dog Lover'. I'm a dog lover too. I lost my best friend, of over 17 years, more than two years ago. And yet still, often I find myself crying for the loss without really understanding why.

All I can suggest, in my ignorance, is that rather than focusing upon the antidepressant you've been taking for the last 20 years (and I've been on antidepressants much longer than that) that you focus instead on being kind and forgiving to yourself. Whatever the day brings.

 

 

 

[DogLover]

rhanch,

thank you for your kind reply. the tweeking is the inability to calm down. nervous energy causing pacing, walking. its a kind of hell. theres a good post under how long is this going to take. bottom line is: we dont know. you said the brain zapps signaled the end of wd?

 

ive tried every mental focus trick there is. yes they help, but sometimes the system is just overwhelmed and i resort to walking and pacing.

 

i lost my dog last sept. i still think about him all the time. sorry about the loss of your father. i too lost mine, but about a decade ago.

 

it has been a rough couple of days. ive never had any of the brain zapps people talk about, i just get a tight hot buzzing sensation in my head that gives me a nervous energy. kinda like a super caffienated feeling.

 

last evening i tried a bit of benadryl for allergies and lordy lord it knocked me out! it calmed me down and sent me to sleep. so, i read as much info i could find on this site.

 

wishing you the best! p

[DogLover]

after this entire month, im still confused about my options... sorry but  i keep rehashing this.

 

in terms of quality of life, what is my best option?

1. hold steady until symptoms improve

2. uptaper until sympoms improve

3. see a pdoc for possible cross-taper or other solution

4. unknown

 

it would seem that the electric, or burning back anxiety symptoms have returned. sorry to be so whiney/needy and any hope or encouragement would be greatly welcome.

 

[Shep]

Since you've seen improvements, I would consider your upticks in symptoms a wave and a sign that you need to hold a bit longer. 

 

What you're experiencing is normal during withdrawal. 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

Acceptance

[DogLover]

Oh, Shep, it's been a hard few days.

 

I've been through all the self-help, meditation and what not and those things work here and there, but eventually everything overwhelms those techniques.

Those around me say I'm getting better, that I couldn't sit down for two minutes, that my face looked like I was horrified, but I sure don't feel like it some times. I know how waves play tricks on the mind and make it seem that it's always been and always will be horrible. The many accumulative days are taking their toll. Lately, I've felt the return of the "hot back", electric buzz feeling and other anxiety associated symptoms.

 

One silver lining in a very dark cloud, is that I was able to go to the bathroom today, the details of which are well beneath the decorum of this board! I've been pretty constipated due to cheese in my diet.

Thank you for the attention.

[Lloyd]

Heya,

 

I know how you feel about being confused about your options. There isn't a day that goes by that i dont think i just taking the Effexor again. I'm pretty close to doing it now. The only reason i haven't is because i'm **** scared of making things even worse. That's probably my anxiety & OCD muddying the waters. I did a full reinstatement after a year and a half off the stuff back in 2017 and that seemed to work fine. Stupid me tapered off it too quick after that and now.

I noticed that you also did a full reinstatement back in 2018. How did that go for you? Did you find the symptoms were pretty much all gone within a day?

[DogLover]

yes. after i reinstated symptoms went away in about a day from what i remember. i didnthe same thing as you.

 

the first time i quit over a few weeks and i was fine for a period of time. then bam! it all broke loose. complete terror.

 

so, then i decided to taper over a year. same pattern, but longer timeline. im not in terror, but ive got near constsnt anxiety. like you i wonder if a ?20mg updose would help or make everything worse. 

 

we dont have a crystsl ball.

 

right now im way more concerned with feeling better than getting off effexor. but, the two are so intertwined. sometimes i get destracted, other times no.

[DogLover]

So, today I had a different weird kinda symptom.

 

I got a little dizzy and thought I was either going to pass out or hear voices. Odd right? Of course my imagination took over and made matters even worse. I started to spiral and worry, and then it leveled off and eventually went away. The entire thing lasted about 10-20 min. Once it was gone I was kinda tired.

 

Once again, I can't tell if I'm getting better or worse. This road sure is a bumpy one.

 

 

[Gracee]

Hi DogLover, I have reread your posts a couple of times.    What comes through to me is that you tend to believe an up-dose might/will solve your discomfort.  Am I correct in thinking this is at least in the back of your mind?   I think you want this notion to be validated.   Am I correct?   Is your thought process taking you to the conclusion that you will only feel better if you up-dose?   I ask this because often times our perception becomes our reality.    For example, I firmly believe if I hold at my current dose for one to two months, I will comfortably stabilize.    This belief becomes my goal and my reality.   

[DogLover]

good point gracee. ive been pretty unstable for quite some time. nearing two months.

 

[Gracee]

Two months is a lot of days of instability.  Wish I had a magic pill for you.   Wish I had one for all of us.   This misery stinks.

[DogLover]

i dont know if holding is working. yes some physical symptoms have gotten a little better, but last nights sleep was pretty sparse. i usually get to sleep by midnight and awake by five am, i couldnt get to sleep last night until after 1am. plus i have so much nervous energy that i just want to pace.

 

when i eat, i cannot sit down. i have to pace and eat.

 

 

[DogLover]

I don't know how much more of this I can take.

 

Symptoms:

Tweeking Hard: constant pacing, walking, worry, etc. Can't concentrate. Useless. Mild paranoia.

Buzzing in arms and heat on back. Head/Brain feels hot. Heart sometimes pounds hard.

Unable to enjoy TV, socializing, play games, relax

 

Some of these symptoms have been near constant for almost 60 days.

 

My journal:

10AM  650mg Magnesium, 1300 mg Inosotal

10PM 650mg Magnesium, 1300 mg Inosotal

11pm 15BBS of EffexorXR

That's it (?28 days.) Last Friday I had a little Benadryl  about 5 mg

 

I want to stabilize on Effexor and need advice on updosing. I don't know what dose to try, but I don't think 5 BBS is going to do much. I'm scared the reinstatement window is closing and I will be like this for ever. At this point I do not care about losing a year or two of tapering.

 

Can anyone help me put together an updosing schedule, or let me know why this isn't a good idea?

[Carmie]

Hi DogLover, 

 

Thanks for your message. I’m sorry you’re struggling so much. In the scheme of things when it comes to these medications two months of symptoms after updosing isn’t that long. It can take up to a year or more for some people to stabilise. I had over three months of waves just by changing a formulation last year. 

 

It’s up to you if you updose, though it may not help, and it could make things worse. Nobody really knows. 

 

Shep said that seeing you’ve seen some improvements you need to hold longer. I’ll leave a report with the other mods.  There really is no quick fix when it comes to these medications. 

 

Take care💚

[Altostrata]

On 4/17/2019 at 2:02 PM, DogLover said:

My journal:

10AM  650mg Magnesium, 1300 mg Inosotal

10PM 650mg Magnesium, 1300 mg Inosotal

11pm 15BBS of EffexorXR

 

What times of day are these symptoms better or worse? How do you feel after you take inositol at 10 a.m.? How do you feel after you take inositol at 10 p.m.? How do you feel after taking Effexor at 11 p.m.?

[DogLover]

Alto, thank you!

 

Q1:

There are no clear cut patterns to symptoms, but in general they seem to follow daily cortisol levels (from some chart I saw) They go from moderate to jumping out of my skin. From what I can tell symptoms are physical first, then bleed into psychological:

 

5AM    Wake, OK for 20-50 min

7AM    Anxiety, can't sit still, pacing, worrying.

12PM  Sometimes symptoms are less

2-3PM Symptoms build

6pm    Symptoms peak

7-9      Symptoms steady

10       Symptom start to fall off

11       Able to remain calm

11...    Sleep (sometime between 11-12 usually)

 

Q2 & 3:

Inosital: Morning: No discernible difference from early dose. Evening: I get calm enough to get to sleep. Not sure if it's related.  Only reason I take it is that I don't want to make another change. Same with Magnesium

 

Q4:

I don't feel any different after taking Effexor dose, unless it helps me sleep.

 

 

Other info:

-I seemed to ruminate less after eating oranges. VC?

-I try all the non-drug coping techniques. Sometimes they help tremendously, but other times the symptoms are too strong, which forces me to walk. After walking for 40min or so, I'm physically drained, which calms me down some.

-I don't think it's akathisia, I don't twitch or have tremors, etc. I do get some muscle spasms.

- I took a little benadryl last week and it knocked me out and removed anxiety. I've read up on it and know I can't use it repeatedly.

- I've been eating bananas everyday. I read one thread where this caused someone problems

 

One more thing: I'm really worried that a re-instatement window is closing.

 

[DogLover]

@Altostrata

 

 

please see above. in desperation my daily effexor dose is up to 20bbs as of last wed. i will update sig when i get to my pc.

 

 

 

[DogLover]

Update...

 

I decided to updose. Probably not the smartest move, but in desperation I added 5 BBS to my daily dose, bringing the total up to 20 BBs per day. Six days have now passed with no neg side effects.

 

-Why I updosed -

Desperation. I updosed because my days were nearly absolute hell consisting of walking/pacing, worry, anxiety, inability to concentrate, mini-meltdowns and being a general nervous wreck. I felt like this about 80% of the day. To cope I would go on two 40min walks, one in the morning and one in the evening, meditate, change the channel and do whatever I could do to distract myself. Sometimes these methods worked great, other times they seem to reinforce that I'm going crazy.

 

-Six days after the updose-

I think that most of the symptoms seemed to have gone down. The bad symptoms are down to about 20% of the day (from 80%) and I no longer feel the urge for my 40 minute walks. I've grown bored of them. I still am unable to think about anything that isn't WD related. No TV, books, etc. Last night I was able to get back to sleep after waking up at 5AM.

 

I have no idea if the symptom's improvement are a placebo effect as I'm sure that's a possibility, but my gut tells me that they are not. Of course, all of my attempts to measure how I'm doing are done by a guy who all-in-all isn't doing that well, so I question them. In general, I would say I'm somewhat better. Others say I'm getting better and that I'm pacing less, obsessing less. Early on in WD, I woke with terror and that was replaced by panic and now the panic has been replaced by anxiety.

 

-Plans-

I'm not sure as to what my dosage plans are at this point, but considering the improvement in symptoms, I think I may continue to increase my dose until I find a spot where I feel like my life isn't out of control. I still am unable to accomplish everyday tasks without great difficulty.

 

Love and take care.

 

(Yes, I know updose isn't an actual word, but I intend to change that!)

 

 

 

 

[Gracee]

You sound better than you have in a long time.  

I'm glad.

G.

 

[DogLover]

How does one accurately test a supplement, vitamin, or food for a bad reaction?

 

In a windows and waves pattern, it is hard to determine whether a supplement is causing a reaction or is just along for the ride. After reading SA posts, there are countless anecdotes of people removing foods, supplements and vitamins because of “bad reactions.” In a sensitized state, a person is prone to a sort of bad reaction paranoia in an attempt to find relief. But what is a bad reaction? Anxiety? Stimulation? Those symptoms are part of the territory.

 

A quick test of ingestion, waiting an hour and assessing the reaction may not be accurate due to a many obvious factors. For example, does B6 generally cause a reaction in as little as an hour? Does it take a couple of days to build up in one's system? Where does one go for that information?

 

Personally, I've eliminated sugar, caffeine, alcohol and processed carbs at the onset of anxiety in the first few days of my withdrawal. Did this help? From what I've read I think so, but I honestly don't know. The rapid change in diet may have made things worse. What about the weight loss triggered by the new diet?

 

There are many vitamins and supplements that have given relief to other members of SA, but to try them is there a testing protocol that can be followed? The good advice is to start small and be careful.

 

Let's say one wants to test Vitamin C. Would 100 mg be a good starting dose? If in two hours after taking 100 mg of VC one gets an anxiety wave at 1:00pm the would be bad, right? But, what if there was another 1:00pm wave the day before? And what if there is no anxiety wave on the second day of VC? It's all so confusing. Now, lets throw in everyday dietary changes, situational stresses, etc. The number of variables start expanding pretty rapidly.

 

Anybody have any ideas?

[DogLover]

the last few nights ive been able to sleep. up until now, my sleep has been limited to about 5 hours after which the anxiety and panic start to kick in.

 

my anxiety levels are much lower, but at times its replaced by depression.

 

love you all.

[DogLover]

Yesterday someone dropped off a giant bag of cookies. I'm not eating anything like that, but I took a big whiff of the bag. Mmm! Not ready to stop there, I took out one cookie from the bag and put it in my mouth to taste it. Yes, it tasted good. I thought about eating it. Nope! Not wanting to stay up all night in the fetal position wondering if the sugar I ate is going to keep me up all night in the fetal position, I took the cookie out of my mouth and tossed it out. It was good while it lasted. That's not will power my friend, that is psychosis.

 

[DogLover]

I want to post an update because sometimes posting an update feels like an accomplishment.

 

Anxiety is still hanging around although I've asked it to leave. It follows me everywhere I go. I try to ignore it with meditation or deep breathing, but that only works sometimes. I should call the police. Its most annoying around 8am and then again around 3pm. For some reason it leaves me alone most nights.

 

Sometimes it brings it friends to visit, worry, panic and terror. I don't wanna talk about them.

 

The only good news about anxiety is that its settled into a routine.

 

[DogLover]

A bed is like a benzo.

 

When you first get into bed it feels so good and relaxing. But eventually it quits working and begins to make you feel worse. At that stage another dose of bed works for just a second, but then quickly wears off.

 

Time to get up and pace the day.

[DogLover]

Just a tip: To find serum concentrations of a drug once ingested, one can try searching for "Pharmacokinetic Study Magnesium" The graph below is for magnesium citrate obtained from Now Foods.

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

On 4/25/2019 at 10:29 AM, DogLover said:

How does one accurately test a supplement, vitamin, or food for a bad reaction?

 

All you can really do is:

• only make one change at a time
• try a small amount to begin with
• observe
• if no worsening, add a small amount more
• observe
• etc

If you are unsure if new substance is causing problems you could stop taking it for several weeks and reintroduce.  If the same thing/s recur/s then it may be the introduced substance.

[DogLover]

Update: After a harrowing 9 months I am doing great. 

 

Background: Around June 15th, 2018 I started tapering Effexor and went completely bonkers by the following February. (I went from 150 mg to about 10 mg WAY too fast.) February, March, April and May of 2019 were hell. I went from running a successful business to being unable to write checks, talk on the phone and accomplish anything. I was an embarrassing hysterical wreck. 

 

The Change: Due to data I was able to see from a spreadsheet that another user had posted I decided to updose and level off. Being mostly paranoid about everything, I was afraid to updose and further aggravate symptoms, but at that time decided to increase my dosage by one-three beads of Effexor (.6mg) per day. Seeing quick improvement, I stopped after reaching 90bbs by June. 

 

The difference: At 90bbs I leveled off and was doing OK. Not good, but OK. I still had anxiety and depression, but could function at a half hearted way. In my studies I came across 3 things I'm convinced made my life completely different. 

 

1. Mensah/Walsh protocol: After dumping $400ish dollars on a test from the Mensah Institute I was told I had pyrrole disorder and undermethylation. They proscribed me the following supplements: B6, VC, SAMe, Methionine, Zinc, Calcium and Magnesium. 

2. After reading the Mood Cure I added tyrosine, and 5HTP 

3. After taking an Organic Acids Test I started taking Biocidin (a cindida fighting blend), a GI detox, CoQ10 and L-Carnitine.

 

I started #1 and #2 at the same time and felt an amazing lift of my sinking depression that had plagued me from childhood. It took about two weeks for symptoms to begin to lift, but after about a month I no longer felt the horrible. I didn't feel great, but I no longer felt life was not worth living. 

 

I also came across the Organic Acids Test and decided to shell out another $350 to take it. The results came back positive for candida, mold, lack of vitamin C and a problem with fatty acid oxidation (not sure what this is all about). About two weeks after starting the supplements to treat these (#3), the inner anxiety and anxiousness began to fade. After about a month or more, I can say for the first time EVER I feel like doing stuff, getting up in the morning, talking to people and just living. 

 

I'm still taking and tapering Effexor, but I'm doing it slowly with the 10% per month solution. I'm at 58 bbs (34.8mg/day). 

 

Placebo Affect: After trying just about everything to treat my depression over decades, I became jaded. You name it I tried it: Career change, girlfriend changes, Meds, therapy, yoga, meditation, diet, exercise and on and on. I always felt tearfull, tired and negative. I honestly didn't think the supplements would work, but after months changes happened. From what I know about myself, blacebos work right away. You take a pill and the next day you feel great and that feeling lasts a few days until you can no longer convince yourself you are doing better. The changes I feel are not like that. They didn't start until weeks after taking supplements. I'm still not 100%, but I'm getting close!!!

 

God love you all and good luck.

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, Doglover. Please continue to let us know how you're doing.