Zyprexa19: starting olanzapine / Zyprexa taper

[ChessieCat]

51 minutes ago, Zyprexa19 said:

how am I supposed to cut successfully when I’m already feeling discomfort?  

 

What do i do?

 

You hold.  WDnormal (withdrawal normal)

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

[Zyprexa19]

This is a big story

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/health/depression-withdrawal-drugs.html

[Zyprexa19]

So I may have accidentally taken double my 5 mg dose 2 nights ago. Im not quite sure.

 

anyways, i still feel like I am waking up earlier than I should be on the 5 mg dose.

 

should I continue to hold? Could a possible inadvertent updose Mess my tolerance up?

[Carmie]

Hi Zyrexa19, 

 

Yes, if you think you’ve taken a double dose it’s best to hold for a while before tapering again. I’ve double dosed twice accidentally and it ramped up my symptoms so I had to hold longer. It’s always better to be safe than sorry when it comes to these medications. The smallest changes can throw a spanned in the works. 

 

Take care💚

 

 

 

 

[Zyprexa19]

Thanks, Carmie.

 

medication management is stressful in and of itself 

[Zyprexa19]

So yesterday afternoon, I got bored and smoked a little bit of pot.

 

when I took my meds later that night, it felt like the THC had numbed the effect of the olanzapine. I have no issues with CBD, but thc appears to undermine the potency of the drug.

 

anyways I couldn’t sleep and I ended up taking 100 mg of trazadone to get my rest, because I have work to do today.

 

should I be worried that my typical 5 mg dose isn’t going to do the job anymore or is it just wait and see?

 

i feel dumb for adding another variable into the mix as im trying to stabilize but like I said, given my positive experience with CBD, I didn’t think another cannabinoid would disrupt anything 

[eymen23]

Zyprexa19,

 

There are already many unknowns when it comes to tapering psychiatric drugs (how long will it take and how bad will symptoms be etc.). Adding in recreational drugs makes the situation more complicated, and then you complicated things even further by taking 100mg of trazadone.

 

For your nervous system to be able to successfully cope with lower and lower dosages of a psychiatric drug, it’s important you are consistent with dosing and your drug regimen. Otherwise your nervous system will struggle to adapt to the inputs presented, because they are inconsistent. 

 

It would sensible to hold consistent at the 5mg dose consistently and keep a careful eye on your symptom pattern. Once you find more stability and certainly over your symptoms, you can consider making the next drop. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by eymen23

[Zyprexa19]

Thanks.

 

i haven’t started cutting yet.

 

and I really needed to sleep last night.

 

hopefully, im right that it was just the thc undermining the zyprexa and that the problem can resolve itself in 24 hours

[eymen23]

Zyprexa19,

 

I don’t think it’s necessarily a case of thc undermining Zyprexa or your body developing a tolerance to 5mg. Occasional sleeplessness is to be expected in this process. 

 

Although you are back at 5mg, you had a minor mishap with the last reduction, then went back up to 5mg and then potentially took 10mg instead of 5mg. 

 

I remember when I changed Escitalopram generics, I had about 2 weeks of poor sleep. Since then I’ve had little/no issues with sleep and have even slept better than usual this last few days. Changes can impact the body in seemingly random ways. 

 

Please be patient and give you body a chance to level out. 5mg every day at the same time and no new drugs, and things should hopefully stabilise soon. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by eymen23

[Zyprexa19]

So just wanted to update.

 

i started cutting again 2 nights ago.

 

so far so good at 4.8 (a 4 percent cut)

 

cutting another .2 mg next Thursday.

 

wish me luck

 

this drug sucks

[Zyprexa19]

Just wanted to give a short update.

 

i have cut 12 percent in the last 3 weeks and am down to 4.4 from 5 mg.

 

so far I am stable.

 

i am sort of compromising between SD and Breggin’s recommended schedule, cutting 0.2 mg every 7-10 days, instead of 10 percent every month

 

 

So far I have not had any problems.

 

just 88 percent left to cut 😕

 

 

[eymen23]

Zyprexa19,

 

I’m glad to hear things have gone smooth so far but please exercise caution. It’s common for drops in dosage to take time to catch up with us.

 

Ultimately the pace of your taper is your decision, but as you’re aware you’re tapering faster than we advise.  If you start experiencing intense withdrawal symptoms, please stop tapering and patiently hold. 

 

Often a slow and steady taper serves in getting us to a good place quicker than a fast taper that destabilises us. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by eymen23

[hayduke]

Hey Zyprexa19,

 

I don't blame you at being angry for being saddled with this drug.  It's an enraging situation...once you can feel it again.

 

How's your taper going?

 

I was able to get from 10 to 5 over a few months, that wasn't hard.  5 to 2.5 took me about 5 months and was harder, slower, difficult at work etc but I didn't have major problems.  I did a six month hold after that which worked out well.  This let the symptoms settle a lot. 

 

One reliable sign I found that it's time for a hold is noticing myself talking faster and hogging the conversation a bit too much.  I think that's largely dopamine receptors becoming progressively unblocked.  Waiting till I resume normal pace of speech before the next cut works well.  Also the histamine in olanzapine is very sedating so that's enlivening when coming off too.  Best not to be taken for manic, people get concerned.

 

I was hoping to get from 2.5 to zero in six months but it was going to be too slippery a ride.  I'm looking at a year or two now.

 

What I learnt at 2.5 and below is the importance of reducing by 10% of the previous dose, not the original amount.  Otherwise it starts getting fraidy.

 

All the best with getting off this crap.

 

Cheers

[Dream22]

On 2/20/2019 at 8:49 PM, Zyprexa19 said:

Thc.

 

i was previously a habitual user.

 

i just don’t know how I will be able to deal with prolonged insomnia

 

not sleeping is hell.

Hi i used to smoke cannabis for years before my breakdown which was induced by drink and coke. The cannabis used to help me manage stress and my daily life was great on it. But after i took zyperixa for 5 months it changed my brain and whenever i tried smoking regular cannabis for insomnia when i cold turkeyed off this med (do not reccomend doing that, pls taper) i started getting really bad anxiety from the thc in the cannabis. Ive never had this before and was happy i had been able to smoke some top shelf strains but the zyprexa changed the way my body reacted to cannabis. This really was a blow as i too wanted to use it for the insomnia. Instead i smoke cbd now where i dont get the anxiety which feels like it crawls on you when you smoke regular cannabis. Im hoping after 6 months or so i might be able to resume and partake in cannabis on the odd occasions when my brain has reajusted and there is no more zyprexa in my system. I tried a few times smoking a very little amount mixed with tobacco, unfortunately each time i was hit with a awful anxiety feeling physically. Please look in to cbd oil, capsules or the cbd bud itself. I dont like cigarettes so the cbd option was better for me as i tend to smoke when im feeling stressed out from the withdrawl. 

[hayduke]

I smoked weed daily for a few years too.  I did a 3 month tolerance break off the weed in 2017.  It was a pretty good warmup for coming off the olanzapine.  Wasn't comfortable - derealisation, loss of motivation (not much of that on olanzapine to start with), reduced sleep quality, irritability.  Everything looked and felt a bit bright and sharp for a bit.  But that all passed before too long.

 

This put me in a good spot to start the taper.

 

I do use cannabis occasionally now but not every day like I used to.  Days go by where I don't think of it at all.  I've got through less than 1/4 ounce over the last year.  I wouldn't mind trying CBD oil as dream22 suggested above, but it's many hundreds of dollars a bottle here so I do without.

 

As soon as I started tapering off the olanzapine from 2.5mg my sleep dropped from 8-9 hrs a night (maybe 10 or 11 on weekends) to more like 7-8 with a rare weekend lie-in now and again.  I had to slow my initial rate of taper from >10% to around 10% to get 7+ hours of sleep most nights.  I'd like to get a bit more sleep than I am but I can make do with 7+ a night.

 

[Zyprexa19]

Thanks for the input.

 

im still holding at 4.4 because I’ve noticed I’ve been waking up about 2 hours earlier than I was before.

 

still getting close to 8 hours though.

 

Dream are you off zyprexa totally? What was your dose? How is your sleep now?

[Dream22]

Hi guys im day 12 off zyprexa i managed to sleep for 9 hours last night. Woke up at 8am and then fell back asleep till 10am. Ive noticed if i clear my head off thoughts and concentrate on listening to my breathing this helps me fall asleep. Im having vivid dreams, they are a bit weird and random but not bad. I awoke today with little anxiety compared to when i first came off. But it hit in after i spent most of the morning laying in bed thinking of the people who led me in to this situation. That wasnt good to do in hindsight. I should just get up and keep busy so my mind isnt plagued with the people i blame. This bought on a bit of anxiety. Its good to know what is triggering me and now im going to try avoid letting these evil people in my thoughts. I really recommend hot water, juice of half a lemon and a tea spoon of organic honey in the mornings. Ive been doing this every day since i came off olamzapine and it helps shift the anxious sh*tty feeling more than any meds ive tried. Pls guys try it when your off the meds. It will help clear the toxins in your liver. As zyprexa has a long half life i am keeping cautious and will celebrate when ive been off them for a month (with a new outfit). I think you guys should pat yourself on the back too for coming along so far. It takes real strength and determination so when you hit milestones you should do something nice for yourself to congratulate getting this far. Having these mini goals will help get through this testing time. I did have some involuntary muscle twitching over my legs and a bit of pins and needles. But i told myself thats normal and expected whilst withdrawing from these meds. Previously my mind would be racing with worried thoughts. Im trying harder to embrace the healing rather than question every withdrawl symptom. It helps to keep the anxiety low too. You guys are in my prayers. I first thought i was all alone in this struggle till i joined this community. And every night i pray for you all in your journey and struggles. May God bless you strength, healing, courage and determination to get through this. I know it could take some time before we are feeling well again. Keep faith my friends ♡

[Dream22]

Sorry i forgot to mention i was on zyprexa for 5 months at 10mg, i lowered to 7.5mg. Tried to cold turkey twice (awful mistake) went back on to 5mg and tapered down over a month. Once i got to 2.5mg i cut the tablets by half and held there for a while before cutting them in to quaters. I probably tapered too fast but i wanted off them asap. I did suffer insomnia when i cold turkeyed. And in the first week i kept waking up after 5 or 6 hours sleep. With the elimination of sugar, processed foods and drinks and the hot lemon honey water my sleep has improved this second week. Im now getting 7/8 hours. I wake up at the slightest noice, but this is all to be expected. Dont let the withdrawl symptoms scare you. Your body is just adjusting without this poison. In time it will settle and you will heal. Keep faith and even though this is a struggle you never thought you were going to have to face dont let it eat you up or make you feel as though life wont get better. It will once you give it time

 Patience is really important and try and look to the future. Make mini goals as to what you would like to do and be in 6 months from now. In my mind you guys are all warriors to edure this battle. The good thing is your not alone and many have gone through harder situations where they were drugged for years and have healed over time. Im reading a book called 'The Ultra mind solution' i bought it for a few pounds off amazon. It discusses the theory that the gut heavily influences the brain. As these meds can deplete the vitamins in your body its really important to try hard to eat clean when detoxing/withdrawing from zyprexa. I miss being able to eat the way i did. But if it helps heal my brain and body faster i will try sticking it out for 6 months. Try plenty of fresh salads, healthy proteins and drink water. I do occasionally indulge with a choc biscuit or french fries when im feeling weak. But 90% of my diet has now changed. I only eat one a day in the evening, my appetite has reduced in withdrawl. But by the evening my stomach rumbles which is a good sign that i can feel hunger again. When i cold turkeyed my whole body was so messed up. I couldnt tell if i needed the bathroom and couldnt face the thought of eating. The third time now attempting withdrawl the better way through tapering and making lifestyle changes, taking magnesium citrate, vit d, hemp oil capsules is helping the process. Its not a smooth process but compared to the weeks of hell i endured previously when i tried twice to cold turkey i feel better. Its been a rough 8/9 months. But im determined to see it through. I will never touch a antipsychotic med ever again. This stuff should be banned or given to the evil doctors who soulessly prescribe it for some stupid reasons. Karma will get them back for putting us in this position. One day we will be among those survivors who are able to lend friendship to those going through what we are now. Keep positive my friends. Its hard i really know, but this isnt our destiny or forever. Just a testing period which we can either emerge from or let it dictate our beings.

[Zyprexa19]

So I made another cut last night down to 4.2

 

smooth sailing so far. I’ve cut 16 percent of my original dose.

 

so far I have been able to cut 4 percent of starting dose every 7-10 days without a problem 

 

hopefully I will be able to keep moving at that pace 

 

84 percent left to cut

 

and then finally I get to see what withdrawal is all about 

 

FML indeed

[hayduke]

That'll be bloody good if you can get down a bit quicker due to being on it for a shorter time.

 

Have you looked at brass monkey's method? 

 

I'm inclined to give this a go next round.  After my last round of 4-6 weeks of regular cuts I've found a 2-3 week hold is very welcome. 

 

It can be a bit frustrating to stop for a bit when you've been cutting regularly, but after the hold kicks in it's great to have the extra energy, feel better, be more functional, have fun with friends etc.

 

It's pretty easy to tell when it's a good idea 🙂

 

Cheers

 

[Zyprexa19]

Hi,

 

i cut another 4 percent last night.

 

i have reduced by a total of 20 percent of my original dose, or 1 milligram.

 

smooth sailing so far.

 

hopefully I can keep cutting at this pace.

 

4 more mg to go

[Zyprexa19]

So, I had a setback last night.

 

my taper had been going smoothly up to this point.

 

had a lot going on yesterday.

 

I fired the “holistic psychiatrist” of Internet fame. And I’m being considered for multiple jobs.

 

so I had a lot on my mind.

 

Last night when I tried to go to sleep my anxiety and intrusive thoughts were significantly more disruptive than they had been for the last month.

 

i finally fell asleep early in the AM, but like a child, all I wanted was my mom to comfort me.

Currently living at home. Took all of my resolve to not knock on my parents’ bedroom door and wake my mom up.

 

its just embarrassing. I’m a shell of my former self and fantasize about ending my life almost constantly.

 

i don’t think I can juggle any type of a job and handle withdrawal/tapering at the same time.

 

by the same token, not having anything to do while I go through this drives me insane.

 

i just don’t know if what I experienced last night was a response to legitimate stress or if my body was finally reacting to a dose reduction I made 4 days ago.

 

i don’t know just thought I would vent 

[hayduke]

Sounds like your body's telling you it's time for a hold if you've gone from feeling ok, to what you describe in your latest post.  Looking at 2-3 weeks for a good break for it to catch up with the changes.  Longer if you feel that's wise.

 

Having withdrawal symptoms like you describe is expected - you'll know that's what they are when when they stabilise as you hold. 

 

I usually find day 4-5 after a cut is when my body tells me how it's really feeling about it.

 

It's a good time to look into some relaxation and comfort - magnesium baths, yoga, walking in nature, meditation, lots of good suggestions on the forums here.  Learning to manage anxiety is a very good skill to start on and will pay you back many times over. 

 

Regarding jobs, it's a good time to limit stress (moves, night shifts, big responsibilities etc) if you can.  That said, you might find you can hold one down if you taper more slowly, which gives a more comfortable ride.

 

Have a look at the brass monkey schedule I linked above - it's a pretty sensible blueprint for a smoother descent.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Dream22]

22 hours ago, Zyprexa19 said:

So, I had a setback last night.

 

my taper had been going smoothly up to this point.

 

had a lot going on yesterday.

 

I fired the “holistic psychiatrist” of Internet fame. And I’m being considered for multiple jobs.

 

so I had a lot on my mind.

 

Last night when I tried to go to sleep my anxiety and intrusive thoughts were significantly more disruptive than they had been for the last month.

 

i finally fell asleep early in the AM, but like a child, all I wanted was my mom to comfort me.

Currently living at home. Took all of my resolve to not knock on my parents’ bedroom door and wake my mom up.

 

its just embarrassing. I’m a shell of my former self and fantasize about ending my life almost constantly.

 

i don’t think I can juggle any type of a job and handle withdrawal/tapering at the same time.

 

by the same token, not having anything to do while I go through this drives me insane.

 

i just don’t know if what I experienced last night was a response to legitimate stress or if my body was finally reacting to a dose reduction I made 4 days ago.

 

i don’t know just thought I would vent 

I hope your feeling better. Tapering and withdrawl effects could be the reason you felt some side effects. Ive learnt this process isnt smooth and there will be tests and bumps in the road. When you suffer from lack of sleep that can effect you too. Stay strong and do any hobbies or things of interest that fill your time with positivity even become a book nerd i found tapering and the withdrawl effects so hard with juggling motherhood that i had to completely slow down and not consider a job atm even though i really would like to be working again. We all have good and bad days, in particular when coming off these type of meds it can feel more challenging. Give yourself some time to accept this slow process and be patient. I wish it could be a fast healing process but from research and reading others stories ive come to accept it may take some time till im back to my normal functioning. I was on olamzapine for 5 months. Its good you live with family, im sure they will be supporting you through this and who doesnt need their mother when things arnt going well. Open up to her on how you feel. Sometimes a chat helps clear the anxious feelings in your mind. Sending prayers your way

[hayduke]

Heya @Zyprexa19

 

How's it going?  Hope you're feeling a bit better

[Zyprexa19]

Yeah, I’m ok. Thanks for asking.

 

cut to 3.8 on Tuesday night so I’ve basically reduced by a quarter overall.

 

sleeping fine, but still have at least 4.5 months to go at this rate.

 

just so irritating because all of this bullsh*t I’m living now was avoidable

[Zyprexa19]

Hi,

 

just wanted to give ive an update on my situation.

 

i just cut to 3.4 mg last night and am holding steady. Still sleeping well.

 

i have so far cut 32 percent of my dose in the last 9 weeks or so.

 

this really is a war of attrition. By next month, assuming I can keep up this pace, I should be at 50 percent of my original 5 mg dose.

 

also for everyone tapering this poison or any other psych drug for that matter, you should look into hyperbaric oxygen and emerging neurosteroid therapies.

 

these are common treatment avenues for victims of traumatic brain injury.

 

how is tbi any different from the unnatural blockade and disruption of neurotransmitter/neurohormonal systems?

[Zyprexa19]

Cut 50 percent of my starting olanzapine dose and initiating sleep naturally

 

Hey,

 

Just wanted to give everyone an update on my progress.

 

I have cut 50 percent of my starting 5 MG olanzapine dose, and have maintained the ability to initiate sleep naturally .

 

I don't know if Olanz plasma levels are still regulating or assisting this autonomic process or not.

 

Anyways, I am down to 2.5 MG and hoping to get down to 1.25 MG by early August.

 

My thinking is that the ability to doze off naturally should serve me well when I jump to zero.

 

Hope everyone is doing well.

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

merged 2 topics

[hayduke]

That's great your sleep is good Zyprexa19.

 

I felt a lot better on 2.5 than I did on 5.  I did a long hold at 2.5, and even getting to that point was hugely rewarding...emotions started returning usefully, interactions with friends much warmer etc.  Life just better.  The six month hold was good for me to just stabilise at that point and get used to having more of my brain back online and enjoy life more without wds.  I had other stressful life events which made the hold a good idea, too.

 

This year I've been facing the demon again and am down from 2.5mg in Feb to 1.675 this week, just around two thirds.  Finding the drop below 2.5 is slightly different terrain than below 5.  My impression is that by this stage a lot of the dopamine level changes have been made and you start getting more into the serotonin level changes.  It's winter here so sleep is much better than the summer time, making the most of that.

 

I've been on this garbage for quite a long time so I'm comfortable taking it more slowly, thinking another year or two still.  Finding brass monkey's method a good template as the small cuts are relatively easy to manage and the holds are well placed to catch up with the preceding cuts.

 

Good to hear you're doing well and all the best with your continued taper.  I am confident life is gonna be pretty good off this junk, patience is the hard bit!  The lower the dose I'm on, the more I'm enjoying life...except the WD symptoms are tiresome and demanding.  But worth it.  Holds are good to take a breather from those.  Looking forward to being clear of it and having my body back to how it wants to be.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Zyprexa19]

So, I cut from 2.2 mg to 2 mgs on Saturday.

 

sleeping alright, and still able to initiate sleep naturally (and sleep 4+ hours) before taking my dose

 

its just my anxiety was really bad today

 

i was mostly thinking about my future - will I be able to get off this drug and make a full recovery - realize my full potential - navigate all of the pressure And stress that normal people manage to confront without psych meds

 

But sometimes i just got this feeling of unease and unrest that didn’t seem to have any mental precursor 

 

I’m thinking it could be a reaction to my dose change. But I also drank more coffee than usual, so that could be the culprit.

 

ive been pretty successful and stable cutting .2 mgs every 7-10 days.

 

i really hope I can keep up this pace so I can get off this drug in late September.

 

if anything, the fact that I can consistently get that much sleep without having to take the drug to initiate somnolence is really encouraging compared to most horror stories I read

 

but at the same time, I know that any abrupt or sudden drops in dosage can produce extreme sleep disturbance, so will continue to be cautious 

 

will keep monitoring this anxiety to see if it’s a withdrawal reaction or something else

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd gradually stop drinking caffeinated coffee over the next week.

 

41 minutes ago, Zyprexa19 said:

ive been pretty successful and stable cutting .2 mgs every 7-10 days.

 

These reductions may be catching up with you. You may wish to hold at 2mg for a good while, let your nervous system catch up. No need to rush.

 

After 2mg, you'll want to make smaller decreases, such as .15mg at a step, to keep within a 10% reduction path. When you hit 1.5mg, you'll want to make even smaller decreases, perhaps 0.10mg until you get to 1mg, then 0.05mg until you get to .5mg Zyprexa, etc. The amounts of your decreases will stay within 10% of the last dosage.

 

You may wish to talk to a counselor about your worries for your future, maybe stress reduction training relating to your work.

 

[Miko789]

Hi zyprexa19,

 

its very important you keep a healthy routine throutout tapering, eat  healthy, and do some exercise, even when you r tired,

unless you have some bad wd, get some exercise going, and find a hobby

 

 

take care

miko

[Zyprexa19]

It wasn’t a drug/dose-reduction reaction.

 

been monitoring my condition all week.

 

it was elevated anxiety and stress entirely related to my job search 

 

my ability to initiate and stay asleep naturally, without having to take a dose, makes my withdrawal and discontinuation prognosis significantly more favorable than 99 percent of the hundreds of patient-reported horror stories discoverable online.

 

im going to maintain my .2 mg cut schedule until my body tells me otherwise.

[hayduke]

How ya gettin on zyprexa19?

[Zyprexa19]

I’m at 1 mg and sleeping unaided 

 

looks like I can cut much faster than the 10 percent rate

 

the only reason I even take this **** now is to avoid the possibility of withdrawal symptoms, which I probably won’t have, seeing as I sleep naturally and consistently  don’t take my dose until after 4 AM

 

thanks for asking

 

cutting to .8 in 2 days