noearthlyfamily: micro taper schedule off of Seroquel for dummies chart or table?

February 16, 2019

hello all, thx for being here showing the way.

my current doses and meds are listed in my signature... i take 68.75mg at night...one 50mg pill and the other a 25 mg pill that i try to "quater" into 6.25mg, not very succesfully!

what i need help with now is finding my micro-taper rate and correct schedule, since i suck at math (failed it 2x in high school but they passed me because they pitied me for trying so hard and getting it so wrong!)

i had been breaking my 25 mg pills into rough quarters but they no longer break anywhere close to 6.25 mg pieces...so i'm really suffering with the inaccurate pill splitting disaster.

i'd love to try the ORA-Pro or actually this one: HUMCO 8916001 Flavor Blend 16 oz, Shape https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0773DL1XJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 it's way cheaper looks the same stuff to me...and do a suspension with it and see if i can get a more accurate dose, but after reading all the pages i can find on this site and benzo buddies and others i am still confused...

the video on how to make a simple water titration that was for low dose naltrexone as an example showed me how to do the basics measuring 25 ml distilled water and dissolving a 25 mg pill in it for a 1mg medication per 1 ml liquid ratio. i understand that part. and as far as i got it, i would take my nightly 50mg pill of quetiapine whole as a dry pill and then draw out the 6.25mg/6.25 ml of liquid medication from the water solution and dispose of it and then drink/take orally the remainder of the liquid (18.75mg/ml) to make my current total nightly dose of 68.75mg of quetiapine. seems like i could be doing 5 mg/ml cuts instead of 6.25 if i use the solution or a suspension though...and i think i may be going to fast, or at leat the cuts are too abrupt, so i really want to do a microtaper, if someone could do the math part and then maybe i'd have a chance.☺️

where i get messed up is how to mix the ORA-pro/HUMCO suspension liquid with the (mortar and pestle crushed) 25mg pill of quetiapine and then how do i know how much to syringe out of the mixed suspension for my 18.75mg liquid portion dose? or if i did a 20mg/ml would it be easier to measure out? or if i did a microtaper of something closer to a fraction of a mg/ml every few days instead of 6.25mg cut every 4 weeks, maybe that would allow for a smoother taper and less rough withdrawals? i honestly don't even know how to divide 6.25mg by 28 days!

i guess you can see why i failed math 2x!

anyways...

i 'd love to do the 10% (or less) reduction from the last dose as is reccomended, instead of the Ashton method of a "cut and suffer" that i've been trying to emulate...but all of the calculators and spreadsheets just serve to confuse me even more.

if anyone here feels my pain and would like to point me to a "micro-taper schedule off of seroquel for dummies" chart or table that shows me exactly what to do for each day of the microtaper ...i don't know what i can offer in return! my eternal gratitude? my kidneys? lol

thx again

February 17, 2019

Hi noearthlyfamily and welcome to SA,

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug. Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

When the drug is taken away too quickly we can get withdrawal symptoms: Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

One of our moderators completed his taper over 1 year off Paxil and he created his own method of tapering which is a bit slower than 10%. Brass Monkey Slide

The topic explains how to get the dose you need: Tips for tapering off Seroquel (quetiapine)

Here is a calculator. Just remember that if you round your dose, round it up, and then you will need to recalculate on the rounded figure. Tapering Calculator - Online

If you need help with working out your doses, please let us know and we will help out.

Thank you for creating your drug signature. Please add additional information about the dates and doses for Seroquel. And also when you take Klonopin (eg is it PRN, daily, twice daily - please include the time you take your dose/s).

Please also simplify your drug signature and change it to unbolded font. The mods like to be able to see a member's drug history at a glance and not have read through it. The preferred format for your drug signature is as follows.

Keep it simple. NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

as an example:

Drug name: date, dose; date, dose; date, dose;

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

I will provide more information in the following 2 posts. This is your own introductions topic where your can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.

February 17, 2019

Here's some additional information which you might find helpful:

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

Withdrawal Normal Description

When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain. The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s. It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line. It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.

The same thing happens when we take the drug away. That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

These explain it really well:

Video: Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

AND

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building! You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves. The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.

February 17, 2019

During any taper, there will be times of discomfort. We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear. This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

Audio FEMALE VOICE: First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

Audio MALE VOICE: First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

Non-drug techniques to cope

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping. There are videos available on YouTube.

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

Audio: How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

CBT Course: An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

Resources: Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg: Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float. It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety. The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain. Making it so there is nothing we can do about them. They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like. They do, however, react very well to being ignored. That's the concept behind AAF. Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them. Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can. It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets. What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest. At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them. After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them. So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work. I hope you give it a try.

February 17, 2019

wow! thanks for all the advice links

i'll try to figure out the spreadsheet for the gabapentin you sent the link for...i'm not going to taper off of that one until the last, first seroquel then klonopin, but maybe i can figure it out. i really suck at this graph chart math thing.

i checked out Alto's bio and youtube vids, how wonderful that there are people like us who have suffered and want to help others going through the same thing and to hopefully prevent more suffering!

as for updating my signature for a more thorough yet symtptom and DX'less description, i'm not convinced that is possible to do in 12 lines or less. maybe in 12 paragraphs. or pages.

i just read off a list of drugs that i've been prescribed for psychiatric and related issues in the past 2 decades to my DH, and it was a short version of the list, one that i began one day a week ago and never went back to finish up. it lists 44 medications. no dates. no dosages. that list alone would take more room than is allotted me in the signature box, so... i want to comply with your request but i don't know how to give all the info you requested in that small of a space. would it be okay to just list all the meds i can remember seperated by commas in the smallest font size of 8 until i run out of room? i kinda figure yall were more interested in what i'm currently on and the dosages. let me know and i'll do my best to accomodate.

happy to be amongst people who understand what i'm going through!

Edited February 19, 2019 by Shep
removed attachment, per member's request

February 17, 2019

It would best to have information like the example for the drugs you are currently taking. We don't need any other details. Also just stick to one name. I've used the drug name for the example because they are what we tend to use here for those particular drugs.

Quetiapine: date, dose; date, dose; date, dose;

Clonazepam: date, dose; date, dose; date, dose;

Gabapentin: date, dose; date, dose; date, dose;

Prior drugs: Includes other drugs taken during the last 2 years. Please see this link

Supplements: Magnesium Lysinate Glycinate Chelate 200mg 3x daily, flaxseed oil 1200mg 3x daily, vitamin c 1000mg daily, zinc gluconate 50mg 1x every other day, Allicin Max 180mg 3x daily

Other: 300mg progesterone nightly

Now for the Prior drugs. Make a post in your Intro topic for your Prior drugs.

For the other meds just use the brand name. If you were using generic you could type Brand name generic before the date and dose information.

A nice simple, spaced out list, or bullet point list so we can see it easily and at a glance. Then once you have posted it, right click on the share post icon at the top right of the post and select copy link location. Then go to your drug signature and select this link (bolded to show where) "Please see this link" click on the link icon at the top of the box, paste the link.

I hope that is easy enough to follow. This will really be helpful for the mods. Getting the accurate and detailed drug information (drug, date, dose ONLY) for the last two years is very important. Any drugs you took prior to two years ago can just be included as a summary.

One of the missions of SA is to educate medical professionals visiting the site:

On 5/15/2011 at 5:22 AM, Altostrata said:

MISSION OF SURVIVINGANTIDEPRESSANTS.ORG

Surviving Antidepressants is a site for peer support, documentation, and education of withdrawal symptoms and withdrawal syndrome caused by psychiatric drugs, specifically antidepressants.

The participants on this site have all experienced or are experiencing difficulty in withdrawal from psychiatric medications. We offer peer support to those who are similarly suffering, drawing from our personal experiences.

(No posting on this site should be construed as medical advice. For medical advice, consult a trusted medical caregiver.)

The personal stories on this site are documentation of an iatrogenic condition -- suffering caused by medical treatment -- that is almost always ignored, misdiagnosed, or denied by the medical establishment. Given the widespread prescription of antidepressants to tens of millions of people worldwide, withdrawal syndrome probably affects hundreds of thousands if not millions -- including newborns and children.

Antidepressant withdrawal syndrome can last weeks, months, or years. It can be distressing, debilitating, or even disabling. It may be adding to an increase in what is termed disabling mental illness.

With our documentation of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, we hope to educate the medical establishment about this problem. Case studies are essential; they are evidence understood by doctors, the psychiatric industry, and government regulatory agencies.

Our hope is, eventually, antidepressants and other psychiatric drugs will be prescribed rarely, and only in cases of extremely severe mental illness after less invasive treatments have been tried.

Please join Surviving Antidepressants in its mission to support, document, and educate about psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome.

February 17, 2019

Hi noearthlyfamily,

Welcome to the forum. I can feel your despair about figuring out the dose right here in the Netherlands 😉😉.

You figured out quite a lot yourself. I'll make you a schedule in Excel if you want. Are you able to use a spreadsheet and print it?

Would you like to try a 2.5 % per week taper with a 2week hold after 4 weeks? Aka brass monkey microtaper.

Let us know which substance you want to start with and we can figure it out.

I don't want your kidneys in return because I still have 2😉

Jozeff

February 17, 2019

From what I've found Seroquels solubility is 3.3 g per liter (= 3.3 mg/ml) so you should be able to create a solution yourself.

Is it Seroquel (= quetiapine) or quetiapine fumarate as active ingredient?

Do you have a volumetric flask and a syringe so you can discard or take a certain volume?

A 100 mlflask or 50 ml would be great.

https://www.amazon.com/Volumetric-Ground-Stopper-Karter-Scientific/dp/B006VYXYZ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1550395131&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=volumetric+flask&dpPl=1&dpID=31dN77KUeOL&ref=plSrch

https://www.amazon.com/Bstean-Syringe-Blunt-Tip-Needle/dp/B01HFTYINS/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1550395247&sr=8-2-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=syringe&psc=1

To make a small investment would be great for future use.

I am a chemist and work in a laboratory on a daily basis btw.

February 17, 2019

So I created a spreadsheet for tapering your Seroquel.

Maybe the mods can check it and approve it so that you have some sort of guideline to start tapering.

any questions? Let me know.

Open in Excel or OpenOffice.

cheers

jozeff

Seroquel taper.xls

February 17, 2019

13 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hi noearthlyfamily,

Welcome to the forum. I can feel your despair about figuring out the dose right here in the Netherlands 😉😉.

You figured out quite a lot yourself. I'll make you a schedule in Excel if you want. Are you able to use a spreadsheet and print it?

Would you like to try a 2.5 % per week taper with a 2week hold after 4 weeks? Aka brass monkey microtaper.

Let us know which substance you want to start with and we can figure it out.

I don't want your kidneys in return because I still have 2😉

Jozeff

may whatever power is out there bless you Jozeff.

yes my "Seroquel" RX says "quetiapine" but no fumarate mentioned on the label.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the spreadsheet and your time and effort!

i like the idea of the brass monkey slide microtaper, i especially like the 2 week hold to stabilize after each 4 weeks.

quetiapine taper first, then clonazepam, then gabapentin finally.

the regular taper spreadsheet (not brass monkey slide one) that was given to me earlier kind of scared me cause when i added the 3 consecutive drugs' taper lengths together it totalled 19 years! i almost threw in the towel then because i couldn't imagine doing the withdrawals for almost as long as i've been on the drugs to begin with.

the offer for my kidneys stands, lol, though i doubt any of our kidneys would be of much use to science or another human after the damage these drugs have done...maybe i'm wrong about that? they say the liver regenerates to a point...dunno about the kidneys though.

last night was the worst WD i've had so far, cold chills, hot sweats, flu-ey feeling, stomach and intestinal cramps, multiple trips to bathroom, sweaty palms and headache, hypersensitivity to all sounds and lights, smells, recurring invasive thoughts, recycling nightmare and of course insomnia. this AM i told DH i am not going through with this and felt like a total failure but...then i made it in here and saw your messages. a beacon of hope 😉 so maybe i won't give up just yet...

my main concern now, after i order the volumetric flask and syringes you reccomended, is...how do i know how to measure out "irregular" amounts of say 34.06 ml or say 27.44 ml from the 50ml flask? (very chemist/techno ignorant here)

also, how do i know where the 50ml mark of the volumetric flask is?

https://www.amazon.com/Volumetric-Ground-Stopper-Karter-Scientific/dp/B006VYXYZ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1550395131&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=volumetric+flask&dpPl=1&dpID=31dN77KUeOL&ref=plSrch

this one says 100ml...

and do i use the borosilicate glass flask to shake up/dissolve the quetiapine tablet in each day or do i transfer it from something else to that flask? should i stick to simple distilled water since these would be mixed each day for a week at each dose (except for te 2 week hold at the end of each 4 weeks) or try to use the HUMCO suspension mix?

i appreciate the fact that you are a chemist who works in a lab with these equipment pieces, that relieves a lot of stress for me, but the reviews for that particular flask on amazon weren't great, should i ignore those reviews or go with a different flask? i will trust your opinion since you work with these things.

thanks again, very grateful for your willingness to help me.

February 17, 2019

17 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

It would best to have information like the example for the drugs you are currently taking. We don't need any other details. Also just stick to one name. I've used the drug name for the example because they are what we tend to use here for those particular drugs.

Quetiapine: date, dose; date, dose; date, dose;

Clonazepam: date, dose; date, dose; date, dose;

Gabapentin: date, dose; date, dose; date, dose;

Prior drugs: Includes other drugs taken during the last 2 years. Please see this link

Supplements: Magnesium Lysinate Glycinate Chelate 200mg 3x daily, flaxseed oil 1200mg 3x daily, vitamin c 1000mg daily, zinc gluconate 50mg 1x every other day, Allicin Max 180mg 3x daily

Other: 300mg progesterone nightly

Now for the Prior drugs. Make a post in your Intro topic for your Prior drugs.

For the other meds just use the brand name. If you were using generic you could type Brand name generic before the date and dose information.

A nice simple, spaced out list, or bullet point list so we can see it easily and at a glance. Then once you have posted it, right click on the share post icon at the top right of the post and select copy link location. Then go to your drug signature and select this link (bolded to show where) "Please see this link" click on the link icon at the top of the box, paste the link.

I hope that is easy enough to follow. This will really be helpful for the mods. Getting the accurate and detailed drug information (drug, date, dose ONLY) for the last two years is very important. Any drugs you took prior to two years ago can just be included as a summary.

One of the missions of SA is to educate medical professionals visiting the site:

okay Chessie i will do my best. don't have my 12+ hospital stay records which include the dates and dosages for all the meds, especially since 1998-200? the last hospitalization...when i tried the last time to get those records for a new psych dr they said they had been archived in another building off their campus somewhere so not sure if i can even access them but as soon as i do i will update my signature for you.

i'll reduce the signature as you described soon as i can get back to this computer and concentrate again...rough night and rough 2 weeks, but i will get to it !

February 18, 2019

3 hours ago, noearthlyfamily said:

may whatever power is out there bless you Jozeff.

yes my "Seroquel" RX says "quetiapine" but no fumarate mentioned on the label.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the spreadsheet and your time and effort!

i like the idea of the brass monkey slide microtaper, i especially like the 2 week hold to stabilize after each 4 weeks.

quetiapine taper first, then clonazepam, then gabapentin finally.

the regular taper spreadsheet (not brass monkey slide one) that was given to me earlier kind of scared me cause when i added the 3 consecutive drugs' taper lengths together it totalled 19 years! i almost threw in the towel then because i couldn't imagine doing the withdrawals for almost as long as i've been on the drugs to begin with.

the offer for my kidneys stands, lol, though i doubt any of our kidneys would be of much use to science or another human after the damage these drugs have done...maybe i'm wrong about that? they say the liver regenerates to a point...dunno about the kidneys though.

last night was the worst WD i've had so far, cold chills, hot sweats, flu-ey feeling, stomach and intestinal cramps, multiple trips to bathroom, sweaty palms and headache, hypersensitivity to all sounds and lights, smells, recurring invasive thoughts, recycling nightmare and of course insomnia. this AM i told DH i am not going through with this and felt like a total failure but...then i made it in here and saw your messages. a beacon of hope 😉 so maybe i won't give up just yet...

my main concern now, after i order the volumetric flask and syringes you reccomended, is...how do i know how to measure out "irregular" amounts of say 34.06 ml or say 27.44 ml from the 50ml flask? (very chemist/techno ignorant here)

also, how do i know where the 50ml mark of the volumetric flask is?

https://www.amazon.com/Volumetric-Ground-Stopper-Karter-Scientific/dp/B006VYXYZ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1550395131&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=volumetric+flask&dpPl=1&dpID=31dN77KUeOL&ref=plSrch

this one says 100ml...

and do i use the borosilicate glass flask to shake up/dissolve the quetiapine tablet in each day or do i transfer it from something else to that flask? should i stick to simple distilled water since these would be mixed each day for a week at each dose (except for te 2 week hold at the end of each 4 weeks) or try to use the HUMCO suspension mix?

i appreciate the fact that you are a chemist who works in a lab with these equipment pieces, that relieves a lot of stress for me, but the reviews for that particular flask on amazon weren't great, should i ignore those reviews or go with a different flask? i will trust your opinion since you work with these things.

thanks again, very grateful for your willingness to help me.

17 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hi noearthlyfamily,

Welcome to the forum. I can feel your despair about figuring out the dose right here in the Netherlands 😉😉.

You figured out quite a lot yourself. I'll make you a schedule in Excel if you want. Are you able to use a spreadsheet and print it?

Would you like to try a 2.5 % per week taper with a 2week hold after 4 weeks? Aka brass monkey microtaper.

Let us know which substance you want to start with and we can figure it out.

I don't want your kidneys in return because I still have 2😉

Jozeff

holy cow i just realized while rereading that first taper schedule you sent me on the spreadsheet at 10% taper and a 2 week hold at each 4 weeks that it is actually going twice as fast as what i am currently doing!!!

i have been cutting 6.25mg off of my dose every 4 weeks, but that spreadsheet is approximately twice as fast at about 12mg cut total every 4 weeks...okay so now that i reread this message, and you asked if i'd like to try a 2.5% taper with a 2 week hold after each 4 weeks, now THAT's something i could get behind! lol without committing suicide! omg i am glad i reread what you wrote

dang this brainfog

anyways...how do i change that spreadsheet to show a 2.5% microtaper with 2 weeks hold after each 4 weeks?

sent you a PM about the flask questions. : )

thx Jozeff!

February 18, 2019

17 hours ago, jozeff said:

From what I've found Seroquels solubility is 3.3 g per liter (= 3.3 mg/ml) so you should be able to create a solution yourself.

Is it Seroquel (= quetiapine) or quetiapine fumarate as active ingredient?

Do you have a volumetric flask and a syringe so you can discard or take a certain volume?

A 100 mlflask or 50 ml would be great.

https://www.amazon.com/Volumetric-Ground-Stopper-Karter-Scientific/dp/B006VYXYZ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1550395131&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=volumetric+flask&dpPl=1&dpID=31dN77KUeOL&ref=plSrch

https://www.amazon.com/Bstean-Syringe-Blunt-Tip-Needle/dp/B01HFTYINS/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1550395247&sr=8-2-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=syringe&psc=1

To make a small investment would be great for future use.

I am a chemist and work in a laboratory on a daily basis btw.

is this one okay? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VDPK7B/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ACTB8CBED46SR&psc=1

i figured 50ml better than 100ml for accuracy or am i mistaken?

should i have a 25ml flask for dissolving the 25mg pills as well?

February 18, 2019

Hi!

I don't have a lot of time right now because I'm at work.

My schedule does not say to cut 12 mg in 4 weeks!! The total dose is in the 3rd column. It will take you about 13 weeks to cut 12 mg...... In the beginning it is going faster because it is a relative taper. You compare your new dose to the previous one.

The first 19 weeks you take a 50 mg pill plus a part of the 25 one according to the scheme.

I'll come back to you later about syringe/flask stuff.

That flask look great btw!

Good luck

Jozeff

February 18, 2019

Where do you live?

The flask should be available in a lot of countries. I have a few glass ones from work....

My schedule is calculated using a 50 ml flask. U can use it for years so it is a pretty good investment. A few different volume syringes are also very handy.

I should not try to measure 1/100 of a ml. Just round it to 1/10 ml.

If you need 24.34 ml you should be taking 24.3 ml. That would be 2*10 ml in a syringe and 1*4.3 ml in a 5 ml syringe. It is important to take the same volume every day for a week (or more when holding).

It is also important to make sure your pill is completely dissolved and you shake it before use. Pour it in a small beaker, throw away a volume you don't need and drink the rest. Flush the beaker and flask with water and drink that too.

I think you don't need a strawberry taste to drink it. I drink citalopram solution...it doesn't taste too good but 50 ml is not much so you barely taste it.

No need to use distilled water. Just tap water is fine. Make sure it is room temperature and not hot or almost cooking or something.

Let me Know if you have any questions.

Jozeff

February 18, 2019

The sheet I sent you was calculated using 2.5 % per week which is approximately 10 % per months. I built in 2 weeks hold after 4weeks taper.

So, you will be taking the same dose for 7 days and then drop 2.5 % for the next 7 days.... After 28 days you will be taking the same dose for another 2 weeks.

This I a nice, graduate taper and developed by brass monkey.

There are other tapering methods online that use a certain drop every day, let's say 0.1 mg each day. In the beginning that is ok but after a while this drop is too large. I crashed after 3 months using this method trying to taper citalopram.....don't use it! Brass monkeys method is way, way better.

You will be tapering Seroquel for 3 years or so. That may seem long but better be safe and steady then too fast and develop symptoms that haunt you..

Is everything clear to you?

Cheer

Jozeff

February 18, 2019

9 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hi!

I don't have a lot of time right now because I'm at work.

My schedule does not say to cut 12 mg in 4 weeks!! The total dose is in the 3rd column. It will take you about 13 weeks to cut 12 mg...... In the beginning it is going faster because it is a relative taper. You compare your new dose to the previous one.

The first 19 weeks you take a 50 mg pill plus a part of the 25 one according to the scheme.

I'll come back to you later about syringe/flask stuff.

That flask look great btw!

Good luck

Jozeff

whew! okay sorry about the panic...i told you my math was atrocious! : )

so it looks like your spreadsheet has me tapering closer to 5 mg every 4 weeks with a 2 week hold , do i have it right now?

last night my husband ordered both the 50ml and a 25ml flask in the same brand, so instead of having to draw up several pulls on the syringe to fill the flask for the 25mg/ml solution i can just fill it to the 25ml mark on the neck of the flask and save myself a lot of time each day ...then when i get down to 50mg quetiapine i'll switch to using the 50ml flask and do the same thing...so that each ml will contain 1mg quetiapine. sound correct so far? (i hope i got this right, i feel so bad wasting your work time!)

or am i supposed to dissolve my 25mg pill in 50 ml (until i reach 19 weeks and then switch to dissolving the 50 mg pills) for a more dilute solution?

again my apologies because my brain is math retarded and i haven't gotten much sleep...lame excuses i know, but both are true!

thanks again for all of your time and effort!

February 18, 2019

6 hours ago, jozeff said:

Where do you live?

The flask should be available in a lot of countries. I have a few glass ones from work....

My schedule is calculated using a 50 ml flask. U can use it for years so it is a pretty good investment. A few different volume syringes are also very handy.

I should not try to measure 1/100 of a ml. Just round it to 1/10 ml.

If you need 24.34 ml you should be taking 24.3 ml. That would be 2*10 ml in a syringe and 1*4.3 ml in a 5 ml syringe. It is important to take the same volume every day for a week (or more when holding).

It is also important to make sure your pill is completely dissolved and you shake it before use. Pour it in a small beaker, throw away a volume you don't need and drink the rest. Flush the beaker and flask with water and drink that too.

I think you don't need a strawberry taste to drink it. I drink citalopram solution...it doesn't taste too good but 50 ml is not much so you barely taste it.

No need to use distilled water. Just tap water is fine. Make sure it is room temperature and not hot or almost cooking or something.

Let me Know if you have any questions.

Jozeff

i live in the usa, in texas, near dallas. : )

awesome, i got the flask/s, watched a couple videos on how to use them, thank you!

okay got it on rounding to the nearest 1/10th ml. so the nearest tiny line on the syringe, right?

ok so no need for the Ora-Pro or HUMCO suspension liquid.

i use distilled because i don't like the flouride they add to our drinking water in the usa. flouride is a neurotoxin and calicifies the pineal gland and contributes to kidney stones,etc. it also numbs the emotions, creating a more docile state. not to mention the flouridosis of teeth so i don't even use flouride in my toothpaste or rinses.

okay room temp, not hot or cold. took about 2 hours to completely dissolve (close enough anyways!)

last night i mixed my liquid quetiapine solution with my apple juice right before drinking cause it is very bitter. slept much better than night before, no nightmares or cold/hot sweats etc.

thanks Jozeff!

February 18, 2019

1 hour ago, jozeff said:

The sheet I sent you was calculated using 2.5 % per week which is approximately 10 % per months. I built in 2 weeks hold after 4weeks taper.

So, you will be taking the same dose for 7 days and then drop 2.5 % for the next 7 days.... After 28 days you will be taking the same dose for another 2 weeks.

This I a nice, graduate taper and developed by brass monkey.

There are other tapering methods online that use a certain drop every day, let's say 0.1 mg each day. In the beginning that is ok but after a while this drop is too large. I crashed after 3 months using this method trying to taper citalopram.....don't use it! Brass monkeys method is way, way better.

You will be tapering Seroquel for 3 years or so. That may seem long but better be safe and steady then too fast and develop symptoms that haunt you..

Is everything clear to you?

Cheer

Jozeff

3 years is not bad at all...i can handle it! especially considering i was on it for 2 decades. i agree the rate would be too fast after a while if i tried reducing by 0.1 mg per day. i like this brass monkey slide since it gives the body a chance to stabilize for 2 weeks after the gradual 4 week taper sections. that guy is really smart. i read a lot of his posts last night.

Jozeff, how are you doing today?

February 18, 2019

Jozeff,

just to clarify, (so i don't inadvertently over or under dose myself)

for the first 19 weeks, of my brass monkey microtaper at 2.5% for 4 weeks with a 2 week hold followin each 4 weeks, i should be taking one 50mg pill whole and then dissolving the 25mg pill into 50ml of water, and then removing the amount in column E and drinking that liquid amount?

the 50 ml of liquid for the 25mg pill is what threw me off/confused me, because i thought i was suposed to have an equal ratio of mg to ml (1mg per 1ml of water). but it's not a typo then, it is supposed to be 25mg pill dissolved in 50ml water?

just checking and double checking. you can add this to my bill! 😁

February 18, 2019

(trying to do what ChessieCat said to make my signature easier to read)

Prior drugs:

Adderall
Ambien
Aripiprazole
Atarax
lorazepam
BuSpar
chloral hydrate
chlorphenamine
benzotropine
Cymbalta
Depakote
dextromethorphan
diphenhydramine
Effexor
Geodon
Klonopin (2010-2019)
Lamictal
escitalopram
Lunesta
Provigil
Serzone
Neurontin (2014-2019)
Paxil
phenergan
Promethazine
Prozac
Seroquel XR (1998-2015)
Remeron
Restoril
Risperdal
Strattera
chlorpromazine
Topamax
Trazodone
carbamazepine
hydroxyzine
bupropion
Zoloft
Tramadol
Morphine
Hydrocodone
Meperidine
Codeine

(I will add the remaining dates and meds when I get my hospital records.)

(Still working on this signature but brainfog right now, forgive me!)

February 18, 2019

I've moved your NA (narcotics anonymous) group question to this topic:

peer-support-meet-up-groups

Edited February 18, 2019 by ChessieCat

February 18, 2019

I've move your question about accessing medical records to a different forum where it is more likely to be seen by other members. You can find it here:

how-to-get-past-inpatient-hospital-medication-records

February 18, 2019

I did find this: https://www.texashealth.org/patient-and-visitor-information/patients/request-medical-records

February 18, 2019

And you could also ask the staff at your doctor's surgery.

February 18, 2019

or am i supposed to dissolve my 25mg pill in 50 ml (until i reach 19 weeks and then switch to dissolving the 50 mg pills) for a more dilute solution?

You can use both flasks if you want but better stick to.one of them to prevent mistakes. You shouldn't be dissolving the 50 mg pill until 19 weeks from now. You take more than 50 mg until then so you'll have to take that pill and swallow it.

Dissolve the 25 mg pill and take the volume you need according to scheme.

If you find it more suitable to use a 25 ml flask be my guest. You'll have to change the volume in the scheme accordingly (half the volumes to be precise) I use a 50 ml one so I used it for your schedule as well.

Cheers

Jozeff

February 18, 2019

35 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I did find this: https://www.texashealth.org/patient-and-visitor-information/patients/request-medical-records

oh it was a mental hspital , Millwood in arlington. but thanks!

February 18, 2019

Hi @noearthlyfamily, I have been following your thread and just want to tell you how much I admire your determination. I do hope you will continue on your taper-journey. I caved in on previous withdrawal attempts and regret it now. Wishing you the all best.

G.

February 18, 2019

7 minutes ago, jozeff said:

or am i supposed to dissolve my 25mg pill in 50 ml (until i reach 19 weeks and then switch to dissolving the 50 mg pills) for a more dilute solution?

You can use both flasks if you want but better stick to.one of them to prevent mistakes. You shouldn't be dissolving the 50 mg pill until 19 weeks from now. You take more than 50 mg until then so you'll have to take that pill and swallow it.

Dissolve the 25 mg pill and take the volume you need according to scheme.

If you find it more suitable to use a 25 ml flask be my guest. You'll have to change the volume in the scheme accordingly (half the volumes to be precise) I use a 50 ml one so I used it for your schedule as well.

Cheers

Jozeff

hey Jozeff

thank you!

👌 i will just use the 50ml flask since that's how you designed it and follow your instructions. just wanted to make sure it wasn't a typo...i've read so much that sometimes i get information confused in my head...

so yes, I will take the 50 mg pill and take the remaining part of my dose via the 25 mg pill dissolved in 50 ml water and drink the amount from that liquid shown in the E column on my spreadsheet... so for instance my first week i'll take a 50 mg pill dry whole plus drink 37.50ml of the liquid solution from the dissolved 25mg in the 50mlflask.

...and then drop to the next week and take one dry 50mg pill whole and drink the 34.06ml from the 25mg pill dissolved into the 50ml water. etc.

and when i get to week 20, i will be discarding the 25mg pills. i will be only dissolving a single 50mg pill in 50ml water in the 50ml flask and drinking it all for a week, then dropping down a week later to drinking 49.47 of the 50 ml solution. etc

well i guess i didn't need the 25mg flask after all! lol maybe it'll come in handy one day when i begin my taper of of clonazepam? or not... dunno how that one is even gonna go because i take 0.25mg clon in the AM, 0.25mg clon in the after noon and 0.5mg clon in the PM....but i've got at least 3 years before i start that taper.

you know, people like you are going to be invaluable when the dr's and pharmacists start taking this thing seriously cause (the dr's anyways) have NO CLUE 🔍 how to do this.

i even had one pharmacist tell me "oh you need to just bite the bullet and cut those seroquels in halves or you're NEVER gonna get off of them"!!! what a moron. really insulting. i wonder what he thinks now, over a year and a half later, seeing me coming in to the pharmacy to pick up my scripts, still tapering off of that ol seroquel? to my credit i have come down from 400mg to under 75 mg in that time. but he either thinks "wow she's going so slow" or maybe "wow i was really wrong about her going too slow/too fast..."

on the syringes, i had a little trouble seeing the lines last night so i had Hubbs draw a blue dot on the one i was supposed to draw up to. i'm a little concerned since i'm not sure exactly wich line equals what amount between the ml's ...i think i see 4 lines between each bigger ml line...if that's right, then does each space equal 0.2 ml?

and i'm supposed to round up to the nearest tenth, to the nearest small line between the bigger ml lines?

February 18, 2019

5 minutes ago, Gracee said:

Hi @noearthlyfamily, I have been following your thread and just want to tell you how much I admire your determination. I do hope you will continue on your taper-journey. I caved in on previous withdrawal attempts and regret it now. Wishing you the all best.

G.

Gracee, omg thank you so much!

i was about to give up until Jozeff stepped in to help me too! i call him my "Beaker of Hope" cause he's a chemist and it's like "Beacon of Hope" but nerdier 🔬 💉💊🚰 haha

i just read your drug signature, looks like you've been to hell and back more than a few times. but you're back on it now, probly this is it, the last round and this time you'll win.

February 18, 2019

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

I've moved your NA (narcotics anonymous) group question to this topic:

peer-support-meet-up-groups

thank you so much ChessieCat

February 18, 2019

i noticed a strange thing somewhere around the 100-75mg taper point off of my SSRI

i type A LOT

and never ever had dyslexia, never had issues with spelling either, in fact won the high school spelling bee when i was only in 6th grade and went to semifinals, but once i reached this phase i started spelling words partially backwards or out o f order see i just skipped where i shouldn't have, lol, anyways it's very annoying but i have to go back and correct every line almost... is this just an indication of brain damage or possibly re-wiring that emerged or has anyone else experienced this? it doesn't happen while writing freehanded but typing only.

other cognitive impairments but i just wondered if this was a "thing"?

February 18, 2019

37 minutes ago, noearthlyfamily said:

Gracee, omg thank you so much!

i was about to give up until Jozeff stepped in to help me too! i call him my "Beaker of Hope" cause he's a chemist and it's like "Beacon of Hope" but nerdier 🔬 💉💊🚰 haha

i just read your drug signature, looks like you've been to hell and back more than a few times. but you're back on it now, probly this is it, the last round and this time you'll win.

Stick around, you will find lots of knowledgable, caring support on SA. The key to success in withdrawal is slow, small and steady. I learned the hard way.

Hugs,

G.

February 18, 2019

thanks again Gracee.

Jozeff made me a spreadsheet since i'm pathetically ungifted with math and charts, lol, at a 2.5% microtaper using brass monkey's slide taper method. it says i'll be off seroquel/quetiapine in about 3 years...that's cool with me! i figured it was gonna be more like ten, so i'm relieved. and this is so much better than the cut and suffer method i was trying on my own. maybe with yall's guidance and support i can do this thing for real, and not suffer such severe symptoms every time i (inaccurately) reduce. maybe our collective experiences will help those to come after us....

i have a very old newspaper clipping in a scrapbook i inherited from my great great Grandma Leila. she pasted an article describing a "new useful calming tool for doctors"... it went on to describe the gorey details of a frontal lobotomy and how it made the patients "so much calmer"...right? well we are shocked today at the savagery from back then, but what we are getting now is chemical lobotomies and future generations will be just as horrified at this primitive and inhumane treatment of "mental illness".

we are pioneers in mental illness and mental health. aka guinea pigs.

hugs right back atcha!

February 19, 2019

1 hour ago, noearthlyfamily said:

i noticed a strange thing somewhere around the 100-75mg taper point off of my SSRI

i type A LOT

and never ever had dyslexia, never had issues with spelling either, in fact won the high school spelling bee when i was only in 6th grade and went to semifinals, but once i reached this phase i started spelling words partially backwards or out o f order see i just skipped where i shouldn't have, lol, anyways it's very annoying but i have to go back and correct every line almost... is this just an indication of brain damage or possibly re-wiring that emerged or has anyone else experienced this? it doesn't happen while writing freehanded but typing only.

other cognitive impairments but i just wondered if this was a "thing"?

See: brain-fog-blank-mind-comprehension-cognitive-and-memory-problems

I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg, and for several days I had an upset stomach, which I put down to a stomach bug but now believe it was a withdrawal symptom and for 2 weeks I experienced severe cog fog, and even walking took my whole concentration. I joined SA but didn't updose as suggested because I was trying, through the brain fog, to learn about what was happening. A couple of days after joining I got to the stage that I was unable to type. Having been a typist for 40+ years I knew that something was really wrong. I was very thankful for SA's suggestion. I went and took extra Pristiq. Astoundingly after only about 4 hours I was able to type again and the brain fog was lifting. Because I had a benchmark I knew that it was because of the drug.

I've been tapering following SA's protocol since the start of 2016 so 3 years now. I've also been good at puzzles and like you I am a good speller and also good at intermediate maths. I've also been able to scan text and get a good idea of what is contained therein. Since tapering I have noticed variations in my cognitive abilities. There are times that I am not able to do maths, other times I can't do word puzzles, I wasn't able to do jigsaw puzzles because my brain couldn't turn the pieces around in my mind like I had been able to do previously. I've had difficulty reading, harder at some times than others, and have been listening to audio books. Much of this time I have been unable to scan text, and seeing a block of text can be overwhelming.

It's comes and goes and returns as it pleases. There is no pattern to it. I did manage to read a novel recently and really enjoyed it. But I've since been lent the 2nd part and I haven't even glanced at it. I've also found that when typing I will double check what I've typed and am surprised to see a different word on the screen. I do not have spell check on so it isn't the computer changing it. It's just my brain getting muddled. Recently I wrote out a list of what I needed to do and I noticed later that I has written right list, instead of write list (yes, I was including on my list that I needed to write a list of things that I had to take somewhere). And when typing responses here, I sometimes get hear/here and there/their muddled up and a few others that I can't recall.

And you will see that it's not unusual. And yes, it does improve. I've noticed a big improvement in my memory recently.

February 19, 2019

omygoodness!

so it IS a "thing"!!! haha you described it way better than i could...yes my grammar and sort of rearranging how i read and comprehend words and sentences has changed too

very frustrating when you come from a background where excellence in these areas was rewarded lol but now...not so much.

at least you are saying from experience that it does indeed improve. that is encouraging!

as for the memory, gah...i WISH i couldn't remember!! i am remembering so many things now that make me ashamed and feel so guilty about...probably out of proportion in respect to their actual weight by other people's standards but still, i wish i could just leave the past where it was and move on! maybe it's just one of the things with my brain and emotions coming back on board, i have to learn how to deal/cope with htem and not use drugs to numb them out.

thanks for sharing this ChessieCat!

noearthlyfamily: micro taper schedule off of Seroquel for dummies chart or table?

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