Healedfromabove1: the "wall" phase after successfully tapering off Lexapro

[Healedfromabove1]

How to Stop Taking Antidepressants Safely: A Scientific Explanation

 

Please note that this member did a CT during the taper mentioned below and reinstated:

 

4 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

I have pretty bad withdrawal. No where near as bad as when I cold turkeyed 9.5 months ago and then went back on after a week

 

I have been tapering off of lexapro for 11 months now from 20mg.  (Please see above quote regarding cold turkey 9.5 months ago).  I have gone down from 20 to 18,16,14,12,10, then 9-8-7-6-5, then 4.5, 4.0, and just did my recent drop last week of 4.0 to 3.5. I have only been doing three weeks at each drop, and wish I would have done 4 weeks and will do so moving forward. The drop I just did caused bad withdrawal symptoms and it was only from 4.0 to 3.5. I am wondering if I am experiencing withdrawal from doing this drop too quickly, doing too high of a drop, or am experiencing withdrawal from the initial drops beforehand. It could be one or all three of these and I certainly hope it is not the last one, because that would mean terrible withdrawal symptoms moving forward and even worse than I already experienced this week from each drop effecting me now from the past. My question is this in regards to the "wall" phase once I am off the medication (which implies that once you are off safely even, you will have 2 to 3 months of withdrawal no matter what because the medicine is not in your bloodstream).  I will have a minimum of 2 more years before then, probably more, but wanted to ask that if I do a taper going down at just 5% at a time if I could minimize the months spent in the "wall" phase. I have too many priorities to deal with to have 3 months of withdrawal like that.

 

My doctor is completely negligent and says "you're the one doing the unusual taper" when I call and try to make an appointment which is downright criminal. I want to bring in as much resources I can to her so she can spread the word and be properly informed. What makes it worse is she is a doctor at a University where they hand out these medications like candy. Thank you so much for your help moving forward, and God Bless this site.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by ChessieCat
added quote about CT and reinstatement

[ChessieCat]

Hi there and welcome to SA,

 

It's really good that you have been tapering.  However, you have been tapering a lot faster than SA's recommended method and you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms as a result of that.

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?  The dose we reduce by gets smaller.  Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

When the drug is taken away too quickly we can get withdrawal symptoms:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Depending on how bearable your current symptoms are you have the option of holding until your withdrawal symptoms get to "withdrawal normal" (link in next post) or taking a small amount more of the drug.  We can suggest in increase if you would like to do that.  It is better to increase by a small amount than to risk taking too much.  Post #1 of this topic discusses reinstatement but much of it also applies to updosing:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

This topic explains how to get the dose you need:  Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

Not many medical professionals understand psychiatric drug withdrawal and tapering which is why this site exists.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

 

Please create your drug signature.  The preferred format for your drug signature is as follows. 

 

Keep it simple.  NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

as an example:

Drug name:  date, dose; date, dose; date, dose;

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 

I will provide more information in the following 2 posts.  This is your own introductions topic where your can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.

 

[ChessieCat]

Getting off a psychiatric drug has nothing to do with how strong / determined / disciplined we are as a person.  It has to do with the brain adapting to not getting as much of the drug.  We can only go as quickly as our brain lets us if we are to get off the drug with minimal discomfort.  It is important to listen to your body and your symptoms and to hold for longer and/or reduce less if symptoms become more than minimal.  Withdrawal symptoms mean that your brain is trying to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

Here's some additional information which you might find helpful:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

[ChessieCat]

During any taper, there will be times of discomfort.  We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

 

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

[Healedfromabove1]

Thank you for the quick reply and if it’s mandatory to change my screen name I will do so. I want people to see it is ******* ***** though and don’t mind. But besides that, I think I am going to stick it out at 3.5 MGs. I was thinking of staying here for 6 weeks to let my brain recooperate and nervous system heal before making the the next drop. I wanted to go to 3.25 next. Does this seem like a good idea? The withdrawal is present but not terrible, I just have headaches, mild irritability, mild nausea, and some occasional aches and pains. Another question would be should I let my body rest before going to the gym. I normally workout 5 days a week and have intense workouts. I wanted to go back tomorrow after taking this week off due to the withdrawal. 

 

Also, do you think that staying at a dose after dropping from 20 mg to 3.5 in 10-11 months (3 weeks stay at each point, I know that was too quick) for maybe 2 months would be a good idea? 

Edited February 18, 2019 by WiggleIt
Protect identity of member

[WiggleIt]

In my opinion, holding for 1-2 months sounds reasonable.  You really have to listen to your body for how it's reacting, especially as you get to smaller doses.  Members of SA have sometimes found they actually need to taper slower at the end.

Many doctors don't know about how to safely taper off of psych meds, and many don't know how to recognize when a psych med or withdrawal (WD) is harming a patient.  There is a slowly growing body of medical research that does acknowledge psych med problems, but the overall medical community still needs to catch up.  Your university doctor sounds unaware of the growing research.  This article in Psychiatric Times discusses the gap in doctor knowledge:

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/article/online-communities-drug-withdrawal-what-can-we-learn?fbclid=IwAR3ibCyV9zdT57fTEwDXFq5ySnWcL91rn6mH9ekWGDQDdpm3WY-G3LlLBO4

Additionally, this abstract from a peer-reviewed medical database states that antidepressant WD happens to 56% of psych medication patients:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30292574

Have you read the Tapering section here on SA?  This might help, too, and it does discuss the importance of paying attention to your body after each drop, and using your body as a guide in tandem with the 10% slow taper guidelines:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/ 

Regarding your specific question about exercise, I personally think that hardcore workouts sound very risky while tapering, especially since your body felt this most recent dosage drop.  But, again, you need to listen to your body.  If exercise helps, then keep it up.  But I'd still advise doing light days of workouts and increasing intensity if you feel good, instead of crushing out an intense workout as usual.  

  

 

[WiggleIt]

Instead of trying to convince your doctor by bringing in resources, I'd advise you find a new doctor who already has some knowledge about psych med WD—or at least find a doctor who is willing to educate themselves.  I don't think you should be put in the position of having to beg your narrow-minded doctor to believe you, and you can't teach someone who isn't willing to learn.

[ChessieCat]

 

16 hours ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

Thank you for the quick reply and if it’s mandatory to change my screen name I will do so.  I want people to see it is ******* ***** though and don’t mind.

 

 

We prefer members to be anonymous, not just for the member's sake, but also for ours.  We had a member who, several years after joining, entered a career where he didn't want his psychiatric drug information to be known.  I had the task of going through all of his posts, and the quotes of his posts, and changing them to his new name.  And that isn't even a sure thing, because the information can still be in the archives of search engines.  Changing all mentions of his name was frustrating and very time consuming and is not a good use of our volunteer moderator time.  We much prefer to spend our time providing information and assistance to members.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Shep
updated new username in quote

[Healedfromabove1]

I'd like to change my screen name to "1Healedfromabove1"

[Shep]

35 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

I'd like to change my screen name to "1Healedfromabove1"

 

Your username has been changed. 

[Healedfromabove1]

Topic title:  Allergy medicine and CBD gummies, are they okay to take while on lexapro?

 

11 months since 20mg of lexapro. Currently at 3.5mg and am experiencing withdrawal from the drop from 4.0. 

 

I want to know if it is okay to take a 24 hr allergy pill every 24 hours, and if CBD or hemp is okay to cope with symptoms. I have bad allergies and desperately need the allergy pill. Also while I am at it, what are the best vitamins to take outside of fish oils, niacin, multi vitamins, and magnesium to help with the healing process? God bless you all.

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

The only known way to reduce withdrawal symptoms is to reinstate/updose the drug that your brain has adapted to.

 

The idea of updosing isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.

 

This is the information I provided previously:

 

19 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Depending on how bearable your current symptoms are you have the option of holding until your withdrawal symptoms get to "withdrawal normal" (link in next post) or taking a small amount more of the drug.  We can suggest in increase if you would like to do that.  It is better to increase by a small amount than to risk taking too much.  Post #1 of this topic discusses reinstatement but much of it also applies to updosing:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

This topic explains how to get the dose you need:  Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

Your drug reduction has been too fast and your body is telling you to slow down.

 

21 hours ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

I have been tapering off of lexapro for 11 months now from 20mg. I have gone down from 20 to 18,16,14,12,10, then 9-8-7-6-5, then 4.5, 4.0, and just did my recent drop last week of 4.0 to 3.5.

 

Instead of taking things to try and ease the withdrawal symptoms, and risk making things worse, my suggestion is to take 4mg from your next dose.  It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

It is better to start with a small dose and increase if needed than to risk taking too much.  The idea of reinstating isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  You will need to stay as calm and patient as possible and try not to panic.  When we panic we can make bad decisions.  Some members have panicked and increased too much and/or increased too soon and made things much worse.

 

Keep daily symptom notes on paper so you can see how the updose is affecting your symptoms.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There are many existing topics on this site.  I like to use google and add survivingantidepressants.org to my search term.

 

allergies-sneezing-stuffed-up-antihistamines-and-what-to-use-for-allergy-relief

 

cannabis-marijuana-thc-and-cbd-or-hemp-oil

 

The only supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil.  Try a small amount of each, one at a time.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Reducing too quickly and getting withdrawal symptoms can cause the nervous system to be hypersensitive to drugs and sometimes supplements and even foods.

 

histamine-food-intolerance

 

B vitamins can be activating, especially B6.  You can do a search as explained above.

[Healedfromabove1]

Thank you for the reply. Honestly, I am confused as to where to go and what the recommendations are. I am scared to go back up to 4.0mg after I dropped 8 days ago to 3.5mg. I have taken allergy medicine for two days because I was constantly sneezing and having a runny nose at work, and it may have worsened my symptoms. You mentioned that I can stay at 3.5mg until my symptoms get to (withdrawal normal) and that a link was in another post but I do not see it. Is there a way I can have just one link or article at a time? It is just a lot of information for me to take in and I am getting overwhelmed. I want to stay at 3.5 and hopefully, the withdrawal goes to "withdrawal normal" as quickly as possible but today has been rough. I have had tingles in my legs and hands, headaches all day, and slept for 4 hours midday. The withdrawal is also worse than yesterday and I am wondering if it is from the allergy medicine. Thank you for your time and help. 

[ChessieCat]

23 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

 

[Healedfromabove1]

So youre telling me that the symptoms I am experiencing this week are going to last an entire year? Are there any other opinions or facts on this?

[bubble]

Hello Healed and welcome to SA.

 

I'm a bit confused as why you think CC is telling you the symptoms will last entire year. I don't see here saying this anywhere. The thing is that it is impossible to tell how long withdrawal symptoms will last. There are many factors which seem to influence that but it is true they can and usually take long. And they can get worse before they get better.

 

Reducing from 20 mg to 3.5 in 11 months is quite fast. So it might well be that your withdrawal symptoms are not just from the last cut but a cumulative effect of previous cuts. This is in particular because WD can and most often are delayed.

 

If you are hit by symptoms only 8 days after the cut it means your central nervous system is really struggling. I would personally go back to 4 mg asap and hope I can stabilise there. When symptoms from my cuts appear so quickly after the cut and are so severe they tend to get even worse. I crashed a few times in my taper when I pushed too much and had to hold for many months before I was able to continue. Every time I can tolerate smaller cuts. 

 

I realise this might not be what you want to hear but unfortunately that's the nature of the process.

[Healedfromabove1]

I just read the diagram in the post and it said a year and also a year of recovery is more realistic. Sorry, I’m just very frustrated in that I thought I had been following the right procedures and just started to get my life back together. I have a lot of stressful situations coming up in life soon starting my career, and I guess going to 4mg is the smartest thing to do. My only concern is the adverse effects of jumping back up after being on 3.5 for 9 days. Also, is it okay to take allergy medicine, just a 24 hr pill so I can get through work? I think it is also important to mention that I went cold turkey off the drugs not being infirmary properly or even knowing about this site and went completely manic with pretty much as bad of withdrawal as you can get. I immediately reinstated after a week to 20mgs and stayed there for 2 months before even considering a taper. I also am not exactly sure if it has been 11 months in total since I started the taper. Some drops I did 4 weeks, but majority I did were 3 weeks, which clearly was too fast. So should I risk the adverse effects of going back up to 4mg to stabilize the withdrawal at 3.5 or should I stick it out at 3.5 moving forward? I have to say the withdrawal has in fact gotten worse the past two days, but I also did start taking the allergy medicine which I read somewhere is not good to take. Again, thank you for all of the feedback and support both of you.

[bubble]

I personally don't think you are at risk for  an adverse reaction. 

 

But to test waters you could go to let's say 3.75 mg. How do you measure your doses?

[Healedfromabove1]

Okay, I am thinking about waiting until tomorrow to see how I feel without the antihistamine in my system to see if the withdrawal symptoms go to normal before making a decision to go up to 3.75 because I like the idea of going to 3.75 instead of back up to 4 when I was there for 3 weeks. I have two syringes, and have the liquid form of lexapro where 1mg is equal to 1ml liquid. So I use one syringe to get it to 3ml, and then another to get it to .5ml right now. What are your thoughts on this? Today the symptoms have been sharp pains and tingles, but minor headaches. It is better than yesterday SO FAR. Thank you so much for your help and quick responses both of you, you have no idea how much this means to me.

[bubble]

Antihistamines could rock the boat too. It seems Lexapro affects those receptors and my first WD symptoms were like a sinus infection with difficulty breathing. Other delayed symptoms came only 30 days later after I stopped taking 2.5 mg. Even with a basically a CT the first month was completely tolerable. The hell broke lose after that.

 

Good that you have liquid and a syringe. You will be able to get at 3.75 if you decide to do so. Waiting till tomorrow (or longer if you need to) sounds like a good plan.

[Healedfromabove1]

Alright. So my ideal situation would be that I start to feel a bit better tomorrow without the antihistamine in my system and I can try and stick it out at 3.5ml for 2 months maybe even 10 weeks to see if any further WD symptoms come from the past. If I start to get worse symptoms, then I will go to 3.75ml. Sound good?

[bubble]

Yes. That sounds like a good plan.

 

You can always be flexible with timeframes based on the symptoms we can't predict now.

[ChessieCat]

It's a good idea to keep daily symptom notes on paper.  That way you can be more objective and might see improvement / worsening that you can't feel.

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by ChessieCat

[Healedfromabove1]

What do you mean by worsening I can’t feel CC? I’ve actually gone from 20 to 3.5 in 9.5months. I would think that I would have experience some withdrawal by now from the previous drops if it was too much right? It’s only been this drop from 4.0 to 3.5 9 days ago that’s caused these bad symptoms. I’d like to stick it out and stay at 3.5mg for 2 months or more to see if any other symptoms come and so I can stabilize. 

[ChessieCat]

14 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

What do you mean by worsening I can’t feel CC?

 

I said improvement/worsening.  Meaning that when you are feeling awful it can be hard to notice the difference, whether good or bad.  Keeping notes can help with this.  It's a good idea to keep notes after a change is made to see how it is affecting you.

 

17 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

I would think that I would have experience some withdrawal by now from the previous drops if it was too much right? It’s only been this drop from 4.0 to 3.5 9 days ago that’s caused these bad symptoms.

 

The effect can be cumulative and also delayed.  As an example, I cold turkeyed citalopram after being on it for at least 15 years.  I felt really great for several months.  Then bam, I was bedridden for 2.5 weeks with what seemed like the flu but wasn't.  I couldn't eat and lost a lot of weight.  My counsellor did not recognise withdrawal and suggested Pristiq (because she said I needed an AD like a diabetic needs insulin, which is not true, chemical imbalance is a myth - see again-chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please).  It wasn't until I discovered SA after trying to reduce my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg that I learned about withdrawal symptoms and put 2 and 2 together and realised that I had had a delayed withdrawal.  delayed-onset-of-withdrawal-symptoms

 

22 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

I’d like to stick it out and stay at 3.5mg for 2 months or more to see if any other symptoms come and so I can stabilize. 

 

We are not telling you that you have to increase your dose.  We are providing you with information about your options so that you can make an informed decision.  However, it is generally better to increase the dose by a small amount as soon as withdrawal symptoms appear that are more than minimal discomfort.  If your symptoms are bearable then holding on your current dose for 2-3 months, or possibly longer, will give your brain a chance to adapt.  When you do start tapering again you might want to consider making your first reduction <10% to make sure that you have stabilised.  It is usually better to hold for longer than to risk reducing again too soon.

[Happy2Heal]

3 hours ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

What do you mean by worsening I can’t feel CC? I’ve actually gone from 20 to 3.5 in 9.5months. I would think that I would have experience some withdrawal by now from the previous drops if it was too much right? It’s only been this drop from 4.0 to 3.5 9 days ago that’s caused these bad symptoms. I’d like to stick it out and stay at 3.5mg for 2 months or more to see if any other symptoms come and so I can stabilize. 

 

 

hi there, another lexapro survivor here!
if you read my signature, you'll see that I tried many times to get off this super strong drug.

• started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. I tried to get off it several times. WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 
•  2013 tapered down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs
•  June of 2105, tapered again, too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". Crashed in Sept, reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106
• Tapered off to zero by  Oct 2017 Doing very well

 

I didn't know about withdrawal, all the drs I saw said it didn't exist, that you just stop taking the drug and you'll be fine, or "if you want to taper, cut the dose in half for a week, then in a half for another week and then half that and then take it every other day and stop" was the absurd advice I got!!

 

you may also see from my signature that I've been on a LOT of psych drugs, spanning 4 decades, or the majority of my life. So I know a lot about going off (and on) these drugs, I've got a lot of experience, sadly.

 

I believe that lexapro was the strongest, hardest to get off of drug I've ever taken. I don't say this to scare you, but instead in the hopes that you'll go super slow from now on out.

 

There is a weird thing that SSRI's can do, esp lexapro... the withdrawal symptoms can be delayed by months!!

 in May of 2016, I wasn't feeling too badly, so even though I had been strongly advised not to, I stopped taking the lexapro when I was at 2.5mgs. I stopped tapering and "jumped off" at that dose, which is actually a very high dose, once you understand that lexapro is stupidly strong.

 

Drs kept telling me it was a tiny dose, though!! not even a "therapeutic" dose, they'd say.

 

Since I was feeling ok,  I went with the idea that the drs knew better than what I was being told here. I was lulled into a false sense of security. I had stayed at 2.5mg for about 5-6 mos by then. I felt fine, I thought I'd be ok. I was wrong.

 

However,  I was actually Ok for several months- this is the thing that is hard to understand.

I was doing fine! I had no withdrawal symptoms.......

and then about 3 mos after my last 2.5mg dose!!! I was slammed with WORST withdrawal symptoms you could imagine!

**that's** the delayed reaction that they talk about. You *think* you're ok and you're all done and recovered but no, there is this lag time.

 

you don't have to be totally off the drug to get that delayed reaction, you can get it from going down in your taper too fast. It's like a snowball effect.

 

it can take some time for the symptoms to catch up with you. It's a hard thing to wrap your head around, but if you are able and have time, try to read some of the other threads by folks going off lexapro (you can find them by looking at the tags for each members' thread or by doing a search)

 

Lexapro is so strong that most of us who have withdrawn off of it, have found that we need to go EVEN SLOWER esp when you get below 5mgs.

 

I wish that I had done that, I didn't- and I paid the price.

I am almost fully recovered now, but I could have saved myself a very long painful year or so of truly awful symptoms.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by ChessieCat
changed bold font to blue for easier reading

[Healedfromabove1]

Wow. So I’m thinking that I need to go back up 4mgs in this case then... I’ve done a taper from 20mg to 3.5 in “only” 9.5 months. I am experiencing withdrawal just now from the 4.0 to 3.5 drop... or an accumulation of other drops too fast like you mentioned. It’s looking like I’ll need to jump back up to 4.0 and stay there for months and months to see if no withdrawal affects me. 

[Happy2Heal]

18 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

Wow. So I’m thinking that I need to go back up 4mgs in this case then... I’ve done a taper from 20mg to 3.5 in “only” 9.5 months. I am experiencing withdrawal just now from the 4.0 to 3.5 drop... or an accumulation of other drops too fast like you mentioned. It’s looking like I’ll need to jump back up to 4.0 and stay there for months and months to see if no withdrawal affects me. 

 

 

there is the option of only going back up to say, 3.7 or 3.8, you don't have to make the full .5mg jump if you don't want to. 

how long has it been since you dropped to 3.5?

 

wait at least 4 days, personally I'd wait longer, but it's up to you, to see how you feel.

if it wasn't enough, you'll know it, and you can go up a wee bit more.

that way you're not bouncing up and down.  

but this opinion is based mostly off the fact that I personally did bounce around a lot, and now I am totally sensitized to all drugs, over the counter stuff, supplements and even just caffeine. 

 

your brain likes this steady and slow.  

 

[Healedfromabove1]

Hm. That’s a fair point. Well, it’s day 9, and I have pretty bad withdrawal. No where near as bad as when I cold turkeyed 9.5 months ago and then went back on after a week because I just didn’t know. I was screwed up bad for months after that before even considering tapering. Anyway, I also took an antihistamine and it’s just got out of my system if I don’t take one by tomorrow... and I’d rather not confuse the hell out of my brain by going up if I don’t have to. The symptoms today have been mild headaches, and spasms in my gut, shins, arms, and feet, but I’ve managed to work today and communicate. I also find it hard to focus but luckily at this time my job doesn’t require a lot of focus necessarily. I do have next round of interviews coming up for a front desk supervisor role soon which a huge deal, and want to make sure I’m as ready for that as possible.... so do you think that I should wait another week before considering an updose to 3.6 if it gets too bad... I wish the healing process was linear and my body can adapt to 3.5 in 2-3 weeks.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by ChessieCat
removed workplace to maintain anonymity

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

when I cold turkeyed 9.5 months ago and then went back on after a week

 

I think this is the first mention you have made of this.  I will add this information to the first post.

 

Please make sure you include it when you create your drug signature.

[ChessieCat]

8 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

I do have next round of interviews coming up for a front desk supervisor role soon which a huge deal, and want to make sure I’m as ready for that as possible.... so do you think that I should wait another week before considering an updose to 3.6 if it gets too bad.

 

Because of the interview, if it was me, I'd be updosing straight away.

 

This is why I am making this suggestion:

 

I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg, and for several days I had an upset stomach, which I put down to a stomach bug but now believe it was a withdrawal symptom and for 2 weeks I experienced severe cog fog, and even walking took my whole concentration.  I joined SA but didn't updose as suggested because I was trying, through the brain fog, to learn about what was happening.  A couple of days after joining I got to the stage that I was unable to type.  Having been a typist for 40+ years I knew that something was really wrong.  I was very thankful for SA's suggestion.  I went and took extra Pristiq.  Astoundingly after only about 4 hours I was able to type again and the brain fog was lifting.  Because I had a benchmark I knew that it was because of the drug.

[Healedfromabove1]

Wow. This stuff is literally poison. Okay. So let me understand this correctly and if I can get a few opinions this would be great. After Going up to 3.75 for 4-7 days to see if it helps the withdrawal, there still may be a risk that even that might not help and I’d have to go even higher. I take my lexapro liquid at 11:45 pm every night. So I’m going to try going up to 3.75mg tonight I think I’ve made my decision. There is also a possibility that because I’m going up like that twice within 2-3 weeks I may have adverse effects and be more sentsitized to other drugs like over the counters... so 4.0 or 3.75... again it’s my 9th day at 3.5 and it’s killing me the physical pain is starting to become unbearable within the last hour, probably because I’m stressing out.

[ChessieCat]

What we see is that going on and off psychiatric drugs causes the nervous system to be hypersensitive to drugs and sometimes supplements and even foods.

 

Nervous system hypersensitivity causes a little to go a long way.

 

Because we don't know how sensitive your nervous system is now that is why we suggest starting with a small dose and increase by a tiny bit more if needed.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

It's important to try and stay as calm as possible, otherwise your stress responses will make it difficult to work out if the updosing is helping.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

[Healedfromabove1]

Yeah I’m aware of all that, fortunately. So, you recommend me trying 3.75 then and staying there for 3 months if in 4-7 days I start to lessen in withdrawal symptoms and feel comfortable. If not after that 4-7 days, then go up to 4 or even just a smaller increase and do the same process?

[ChessieCat]

We do not make outright recommendations.  We are not medical professionals and we only make suggestions.  We provide information and options so you can make an informed decision.  The decision about what you do is up to you.  We can't make that decision for you.

 

However, updosing to 3.75mg is a cautious approach and it is a good way to be when it comes to psychiatric drugs.  Keep notes on paper.

 

If after updosing to 3.75mg:

 

there is no improvement after 4 days you could updose again by a small bit more

 

BUT

 

if you feel some improvement after updosing it might be better to wait for a week before considering increasing

 

 

I try not to panic when making a decision about updosing:  I ask myself this:  if I continue to feel like this am I going to be able to put up with it.  If the answer is yes, then I stay on the dose, if the answer is no, then I updose a small amount.

 

And yes, whatever dose you end up on, because you have tapered so fast, I think it would be a good idea to hold on that dose for at least 3 months.

 

Tapering Calculator - Online   And to help put things into perspective and help you to be patient with the process, if you had started tapering at the beginning of this year, making a 10% reduction every 4 weeks it would have taken about 15 months to go from 20mg to 3.71mg:

 

cycle	dose	start date
start	20.00	1/1/2019
1	18.00	1/29/2019
2	16.20	2/26/2019
3	14.58	3/26/2019
4	13.12	4/23/2019
5	11.81	5/21/2019
6	10.63	6/18/2019
7	9.57	7/16/2019
8	8.61	8/13/2019
9	7.75	9/10/2019
10	6.97	10/8/2019
11	6.28	11/5/2019
12	5.65	12/3/2019
13	5.08	12/31/2019
14	4.58	1/28/2020
15	4.12	2/25/2020
16	3.71	3/24/2020