Healedfromabove1: the "wall" phase after successfully tapering off Lexapro

[Healedfromabove1]

CC, you are an angel. Thank you for being so patient with me. I know I’ve been abrupt in some post, this is just fairly new to me and I’m trying not to get stressed on top of the withdrawal I’m having. I am going to 3.75mg and will keep you guys updated on how I feel after 4 days.

[ChessieCat]

I'm definitely no angel, just a person who has learned from experience what these drugs do and wanting to help people.

 

The mods are experiencing their own withdrawal issues, with some still tapering and others having either completed a taper or a CT or fast taper.  We do understand.  It can be extremely overwhelming trying to comprehend the information given to us, and at a time when we are feeling really bad.  I was trying to think through what felt like mud when I first joined SA.

 

There has been a lot of good information already provided in your topic.  I realise that at this time you have probably only glanced at what you need to look at.  When you are feeling a bit better or if you start to second guess your decisions, please go back and work your way through the information and the links.

 

One thing to be very aware of is that becoming impatient seems to be part and parcel of this whole process, even further on in the tapering process.  We get to the point where we are over it.  Holding on a dose can feel like we are doing nothing, when we feel that we should be doing something.  But holding is doing something.  Even though we cannot see anything happening, we are giving our brain the time that it needs to adapt.

 

Give is a verb, so it's a doing word.

[Healedfromabove1]

Amen to that sir, thank you. So I have been reading some other posts and see that it also affects your immune system. When I was on 4 mg for three weeks, I think it is important to say that I got sick like with horrible sore throat. I went and got tested for strep and they didn't see anything, but she gave me amoxicillin for 10 days anyway. It did heal up after I finished it but could that have been from withdrawal effects also? I know it very well could have been. Anyway, I updosed to 3.75ml and am still experiencing the "fibromyalgia" type pain because my nervous system is in shock from the drop. I hope by Saturday I will feel better. It was so bad I had to call out of work today because I do valet and there is no way I could run my legs just had so many spasms. I ended up getting through yesterday by the grace of God but man it was barely bearable.

[Healedfromabove1]

Also I have been thinking about this and am scared as hell of the answer honestly. I have drank alcohol in excess multiple times while on the meds. Can alcohol increase the withdrawal months later or can I experience bad effects not in the present time but in like a snowball effect moving forward? 

[Healedfromabove1]

So I have also cold turkeyed off of klonopin, and was just messing with my entire system taking that improperly as well now after reading posts. I was completely unaware that this had to be tapered off of also. I believe it was 10mg I cold turkeyed off of about a year ago or less. I know it is important to mention this. I’m currently on the second day updose from 3.5 to 3.75mg, and praying that in two days I will be okay. I also was so f ed up from withdrawal, that I was on adderall. I only took that for about a week though and then through it in the trash. 

[Shep]

17 hours ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

So I have also cold turkeyed off of klonopin, and was just messing with my entire system taking that improperly as well now after reading posts. I was completely unaware that this had to be tapered off of also. I believe it was 10mg I cold turkeyed off of about a year ago or less. I know it is important to mention this. I’m currently on the second day updose from 3.5 to 3.75mg, and praying that in two days I will be okay. I also was so f ed up from withdrawal, that I was on adderall. I only took that for about a week though and then through it in the trash. 

 

Please post a signature with your drug history. Yes, all of what you're posting is important. We need to know your complete drug history because it will inform us of the best advice to give you.

 

10 mg of Klonopin is a very high dose to go off cold turkey. How long were you on it? 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

[Shep]

17 hours ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

Also I have been thinking about this and am scared as hell of the answer honestly. I have drank alcohol in excess multiple times while on the meds. Can alcohol increase the withdrawal months later or can I experience bad effects not in the present time but in like a snowball effect moving forward? 

 

Alcohol can cause all sorts of problems with these drugs. Are you currently drinking or is this past behavior? 

 

We caution members to avoid alcohol during withdrawal and well after you come off these drugs. Please give your nervous system plenty of time to heal. 

 

There's evidence that being on a SSRI can actually cause people to drink to excess. 

 

Risk.org - Driven To Drink: Antidepressants and Cravings for Alcohol

 

So if you can link your drinking behavior to your drug use, it's possible that coming off these drugs will stop the cravings. 

[Healedfromabove1]

In the past I have, now I do not in regards to alcohol. 

I am on the 4th day of reinstatement from 3.5mg to 3.75mg lexapro. I am feeling better, but still have withdrawal symptoms that I do not want to live with for months if I don't have to and can reinstate more.

I am going to wait a few more days to see if they go away or are bearable, but when I was on 4mg I was fine and working out 5 days a week intensely, which I dearly miss and have not been able to do at all for the past two weeks. I want to get to where I can work out like this again because it is my passion and also releases endorphins.

 

Also, I want to take a flonase nose spray for my allergies. I am dying from these freaking allergies and want to know if I can do that rather than the antihistamine.

[Healedfromabove1]

I read that you should not take into account the extra .5ml while taking the doses with an oral syringe, then I read that you should worry about taking every last drop of what is in the syringe because then you are taking more than you should... Can someone clear this up for me? Also, what is the easiest way to get the 1ml and 3ml syringes that work most effectively? I also learned that the potency of the drug does not last longer than 3 months, which can be causing a lot of havoc in my case.

[ChessieCat]

Consistency is the most important thing.  You do the same thing the same way using the same equipment each time.

 

Where to get oral syringes

 

questions-and-answers-about-liquid-medications-use-by-date-expiry

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

7 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

I also learned that the potency of the drug does not last longer than 3 months, which can be causing a lot of havoc in my case.

 

Yes, using an oral solution past its "discard after opening date" may cause issues for some members.

 

You might find it better to make your own liquid from tablets:

 

On 5/27/2011 at 12:16 PM, Altostrata said:

Do-it-yourself liquid
People report that they can make their own liquid from Lexapro tablets and water.

It is soluble in water, see http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01175 -- stability (shelf-life of dilution) is unknown.

 

If you decide to do this, it is suggested that you do a cross over.  You would take the following combination:  3/4 + 1/4, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4 for 3 to 7 days.  Doing this is more gentle on your nervous system.

[Healedfromabove1]

So I have come to the realization that I may have experienced flu-like symptoms from my drop from 4.5 to 4.0 mg and thought I was just battling strep at the time. I was prescribed amoxicillin and it eventually subsided after the 10 days dose. I then dropped to 3.5ml after 3 weeks (too early, I learned that the hard way now) and had horrendous withdrawal so bad that I had to reinstate to 3.75. I stayed on 3.5 for 10 days of hell and tried to see if I could stabilize there but the brain and nervous system wasn't having it. I have been on 3.75 for 10 days now, and have suffered from neurotic guilt, perfectionism, obsessions, and the crazy thoughts from time to time as I always have been dealing with.

 

 I know that reinstatement typically only works within the first month, and including my drop from 4.0 it has been 20 days, (10 days at 3.5, and now 10 days at 3.75).

 

My question is this, and suggestions are much appreciated. 

 

Should I consider trying to go back up to 4 ml to stabilize instead of 3.75? I would like to stabilize at 3.75 and not have to take more of the drug (obviously) but there is already a high possibility in my case that I may experience snowball effect of withdrawal from going from 20mg to 3.5mg in 10 months, rather than 16 months.  

 

I know that:

1) there are chances I can have an adverse reaction to going back up to 4ml (worst case scenario)

2) there are chances that reinstating to 4.0 ML may not even change anything in terms of withdrawal I am already experiencing since it has been 20 days. 

3) it will take longer in the overall tapering process and add a minimum of 6 weeks.

 

I just want to do what is the best thing for my health at this point, not realizing even the 10 months of tapering I was doing was STILL too fast and out of your recommendations. 

 

Thanks!

[Healedfromabove1]

Thank you for that recommendation, but that is way out of my ballpark to make my own liquid form of the medication, and follow that fraction thing. 

[Altostrata]

Please put questions about your taper in your Intro topic.

 

Yes, it is possible you got withdrawal symptoms when reducing to 4.0mg.

 

Give 3.75mg a chance. It takes at least 4 days for the drug to get to steady-state in you bloodstream. You may have a lot of symptom fluctuation while your system is accommodating. It's not going to fix you immediately.

 

Take Lexapro at the same time each day. Keep daily notes on paper with times of day for when you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right. Post your notes here in your Intro topic.

 

[ChessieCat]

2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Keep daily notes on paper with times of day for when you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right. Post your notes here in your Intro topic.

 

Example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[Healedfromabove1]

Did my recent info just get posted? I made a separate topic for that too my apologies I didn’t know. I said I’ve reinstated on 3.75 and have been on it for 10 days already, and was at 3.5 for 10 days (maybe a little more). So reinstatement higher at this point won’t even make a difference would it?

[Healedfromabove1]

I see the symptom thing, but that would make me go crazy writing down everything and having it constantly in my mind. I’m already getting depressed in that I haven’t been able to workout for three weeks (I bodybuilder and do personal training) amongst all the other withdrawal bullsh*t.

[ChessieCat]

5 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please put questions about your taper in your Intro topic.

 

SA works differently to many other forums.  Each member has 1 Introduction topic which is the place to ask questions and journal their progress.  This keeps their history in one place.  It also because a case study for any medical professionals visiting the site.

 

On 5/15/2011 at 5:22 AM, Altostrata said:

MISSION OF SURVIVINGANTIDEPRESSANTS.ORG

 

Surviving Antidepressants is a site for peer support, documentation, and education of withdrawal symptoms and withdrawal syndrome caused by psychiatric drugs, specifically antidepressants.

The participants on this site have all experienced or are experiencing difficulty in withdrawal from psychiatric medications. We offer peer support to those who are similarly suffering, drawing from our personal experiences.

(No posting on this site should be construed as medical advice. For medical advice, consult a trusted medical caregiver.)

The personal stories on this site are documentation of an iatrogenic condition -- suffering caused by medical treatment -- that is almost always ignored, misdiagnosed, or denied by the medical establishment. Given the widespread prescription of antidepressants to tens of millions of people worldwide, withdrawal syndrome probably affects hundreds of thousands if not millions -- including newborns and children.

Antidepressant withdrawal syndrome can last weeks, months, or years. It can be distressing, debilitating, or even disabling. It may be adding to an increase in what is termed disabling mental illness.

With our documentation of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, we hope to educate the medical establishment about this problem. Case studies are essential; they are evidence understood by doctors, the psychiatric industry, and government regulatory agencies.

Our hope is, eventually, antidepressants and other psychiatric drugs will be prescribed rarely, and only in cases of extremely severe mental illness after less invasive treatments have been tried.

Please join Surviving Antidepressants in its mission to support, document, and educate about psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome.

 

[Healedfromabove1]

Okay I hear ya. I’ll go back to my original topic, it’s just I wasn’t getting feedback for a few days so I made a new topic. I know you guys have a life too but I just wanted those answers.

[ChessieCat]

1 minute ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

I see the symptom thing, but that would make me go crazy writing down everything and having it constantly in my mind. I’m already getting depressed in that I haven’t been able to workout for three weeks (I bodybuilder and do personal training) amongst all the other withdrawal bullsh*t.

 

We need at least 3 days of daily symptoms notes to be able to assess your situation and whether you should stay on the current dose or increase by a tiny bit.

 

Without this information it makes it very difficult for the mods to work out what might be the best options for you.

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, Healedfromabove1 said:

Okay I hear ya. I’ll go back to my original topic, it’s just I wasn’t getting feedback for a few days so I made a new topic. I know you guys have a life too but I just wanted those answers.

 

Thank you.  All it does is makes a lot more work, causes frustration and wastes the time of the moderators which then means less time being able to assist members.  We are unrostered volunteers experiencing our own withdrawal issues and we help out members as we are able to.

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by ChessieCat

[Healedfromabove1]

Oh alright then, I’ll do that. I can probably do it right now for today. 

 

7 am: woke up for interview, was exhausted and couldn’t snap into focus, brain fog and hard to focus.

9:30 am: slept for 3 hours.

1:00 pm: depressing state of mind, obsessing over what the hell to do in terms of going up to 4.0 or staying at 3.75ml.(obsessing for real)

1-3: chillen.

3-5:30pm: bad heachache, brain fog, exhaustion. (Ended up leaving work)

6-7: irritableness, mild tingling pain in the hands and shins (this is everyday nonstop, if I have to focus on something for more than a minute)

7-10: I’m going to be sleeping

10-12: we will see and I’ll update, but I always sleep fine.

 

Yesterday:

10 am: nuerotic perfectionism/shame for the entire hour (perfectionism lasted 5 full days)

11am: Nuerotic anger

12 pm: brain fog (I went into the gas station to put 27 bucks on the gas, then left without putting it into my tank and didn’t realize until 3 hours later in my way to work)

1 pm-3pm: nuerotic guilt, anger, anxiety/panic

3pm - 6 pm - irritableness

6 pm- 10pm - focused, in the zone, doing well and not obsessing over all my symptoms and pissed over it. 

10-12am : stressed, lead to a crying session of 20 minutes and into prayer

12-7am slept

 

 

 

[Healedfromabove1]

I have also had flashes of nuero-regret, nuero-grudges, and feelings of hurt from years ago. 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[Healedfromabove1]

7 am: woke up for interview, was exhausted and couldn’t snap into focus, brain fog and hard to focus.

9:30 am: slept for 3 hours.

1:00 pm: depressing state of mind, obsessing over what the hell to do in terms of going up to 4.0 or staying at 3.75ml.(obsessing for real)

1-3: chillen.

3-5: 30 pm: bad headache, brain fog, exhaustion. (Ended up leaving work)

6-7: irritableness, mild tingling pain in the hands and shins 

7:00-8:00pm - brain fog

8:00-9:00 pm: this is hard to describe, but I felt an anxiety like feeling that I haven't felt before. 

9-11:00 pm: headaches, pain in my hands and feet, occasional sharp pains

11:30 pm: 3.75ml lexapro. 

 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  What time do you usually take your Lexapro?

[Healedfromabove1]

Between 11:30pm-12:00 am

[ChessieCat]

Okay, thanks.  As long as it is a consistent time that you take it.

[Healedfromabove1]

Oh yeah, absolutely I always make sure to take it at the same time. But man I have to say today has been the worst day and I’m even on 3.75 mg. Even now I’m having bad pains in my hands and feet. 

[Altostrata]

Hi, HfA.

 

First, you have done a pretty good job of tapering. Please don't blame yourself for getting withdrawal symptoms. Nobody can predict this, and doctors are terribly ignorant about it.

 

Going on and off psychiatric drugs and experiencing adverse reactions can make your nervous system hypersensitive to drugs and sometimes supplements and even foods. That last decrease to 3.5mg was a little bit too much for your nervous system to handle, and it became destabilized. You hit the "oh-oh" point. Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

That is where withdrawal symptoms come from -- your nervous system is wobbling. You need to be patient and treat it gently while it stabilizes. Generally, those symptoms come in waves and gradually lessen, see The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization 

 

Your current wave may be because of the addition of the antihistamine, or it could be a wobble. It's a good sign that you're sleeping. Sleep is healing.

 

(Suggest azelastine nasal spray for allergies, it has less systemic effects than a pill.)

 

It seems that a tendency to self-criticism and self-blame, not to mention perfectionism, may be adding to your anxiety. You will do much better if you accept it that your capabilities are temporarily limited and turn your efforts to self-care instead. See

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

We do need to see your daily symptom pattern, be sure to include any drugs you might take, including antihistamines, so we can track potential adverse drug reactions. Also, please put approximate dates to events in your signature.

[intothewoods]

Hello HFA, 

 

Just wanted to say that like you, I was hesitant to make the water titrations. My brain and body had been through so much, I didn't want to risk more harm. But I could no longer drop slow enough on my four meds by cutting. As you have found, the lower you get, the tinier the cut - - and the higher the symptom stakes. 

 

In Debember, after much pleading on my part, my pharmacist used the formulas on SA, checking that they lined up with his pharmaceutical resources (they did), and wrote out a water taper for my Amitriptyline. That let me drop 5 percent instead of the 10-15 percent with cutting which didn't succeed.  I went home so excited. I felt like a mad chemist in the kitchen. 

 

After the first night, I was off to the races. This was fun!! And I finally had control over the amount entering my body. 

 

Now I've converted my Provigil to liquid. It tastes even better 😅. And I know exactly what I take every day instead of dosing random crumbles of pills like I did most of last year. 

 

So much is wrested away from us by these drugs. To regain control is a victory over Pharma and the whole establishment. 

 

Hope this helps in some way. As Alto said, self-care and not self-criticism is the way to heal. You're doing great! 

 

All the best, 

Catherine 

 

 

 

[Healedfromabove1]

Thank you SO much for sharing this “out!” I actually am fortunate to have the liquid form of the medication already being perscribed to me, as I see some others don’t even give you that privilege.

[intothewoods]

That's awesome, HFA. It really simplifies things with a liquid preparation that you don't have to make. And, just taking the Lexapro as opposed to multiple meds. I know it doesn't seem like "just" Lexapro. It only takes one psych med to spin your world around. 

 

But you've found the right place. I've learned more from SA in three months than I did from all other sources in three years. It's so individualized, with Alto and the mods carefully weighing each case. 

 

 

[Healedfromabove1]

Yes absolutely. And @Altostrata, thank you for all of this information. So you’re saying that the destabilization can be months before actual healing occurs with multiple windows and waves? I cold turkeyed off of klonopin and idk if I can go through that hell I did for 5 months again. It’s been over a year since then and I believe I am “healed” from that hell of a cold turkey that I wasn’t even aware I wasn’t supposed to do.

 

Anyway, I’ve been writing my symptoms down the past two days and will post them up, but I feel that it’s been so long since the drop to 3.5 mg from 4mg including the reinstatement back up to 3.75 mg that at this point I minus well stay at 3.75 regardless. I’m going through hell and it sucks, there is definitely a difference in the amount of pain I feel now than when I was at 3.5... but yeah it’s been 12 days on the reinstatement to 3.75, and I’ll post my symptoms up soon. It’s hard to keep it 100% accurate but I’m trying my best. My hands and feet has been the main pain today with occasional head aches and that’s it. 

[Altostrata]

How have your symptoms changed in the last 12 days?

[Healedfromabove1]

Honestly, pretty much the same just not as severe pains. I have to say though all of the messages and stories I’ve read caused me to go into a bad state of mind and get panicky, obsessive, nueroemotions, and it’s hard for me to focus in conversations it’s like a fight to say what I want to say and it drives me nuts. 

 

Also another thing that drives me nuts, is everytime I take my liquid with the oral syringe, bubbles are inside of the syringe when I pull the “lever” to put the liquid in. I do it like 5-6 times to try and not get bubbles, then I tried putting it upside down and my medication dropped everywhere (I try this every night, and still don’t succeed). So I end up taking less than what I have to which is 3.75ml. I have a separate dropper that I use to get it to .75 and put in a little more than .75 cause of the bubbles but never know if it’s spot on, idk how the hell I will get 3.35 and all that when I go down. @Altostrata

[Altostrata]

"Not as severe" is going in a good direction. Please keep daily notes on paper with times of day for when you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right. Post your notes here in your Intro topic.

 

Here are tips on Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

The best way to use the syringe is to put the special cap on the bottle, insert the syringe into the hole in the cap, and gently turn the bottle upside down. (Do not shake the bottle, first it will make bubbles.)

 

Because the bottle is upside-down, the air in the bottle rises, away from the cap. You then draw your dose from the upside-down bottle. 

 

If there are still bubbles in the syringe, point the syringe upward and tap on it with your fingernail to dislodge the bubbles, make them rise to the top, and be released through the nozzle.

 

Please ask your pharmacist to demonstrate this for you.

[Healedfromabove1]

I’m still getting bubbles and the pharmacists are clueless just like my doctor who I had to teach about the effects of this medicine and explain why I have to go up to 3.75 and stay and she’s been an MD for 23 years. Anyway,

 

I took the azelstine nose spray and 6 hours later had horrible vertigo and had to leave work, brain fog, and things just went one ear out the other from instruction from my lead. It hasn’t been good. 

 

I havent kept symptom logs of everything because it just makes my day worse and I get more anxious. The only time I have no symptoms is when I am home and playing video games. But even then I sometimes get pains all over my body like tingles. What can I do for sodium deficiency, assuming that is what it is? 

 

Normal symptoms are: 

- minor headaches

- pins and needle pains in hands, legs, and feet and cramp like symptoms there.

- brain fog

- grouchiness

- irritability

- depression

- anxiety 

 

days from drop to 3.5 has been 30, I have been reinstated to 3.75 ml for 18 after today’s dosage.