Laurenjade08: mirtazapine withdrawal?

[Laurenjade08]

Titled:  What to do now?

 

Hi everyone 

 
I’m really struggling, and not sure what to do, or if there is anything I can do! 
 

I was tapering off mirtazapine, but I hit 10mg and was hit with the worst symptoms, so updosed up to 30mg.

The docs were telling me I need to up to 37.5mg to see if it got rid of my ‘bad’ days, so I tried that for 4 weeks and ended up with suicidal ideation and a host of other symptoms.

So I ignored the docs, and dropped to 30mg 2 weeks ago.

 

For the last 5 days, I’ve had extreme nausea, where acid keeps coming up, my anxiety is through the roof and I feel very very weak.

I am aware that this is a 20% reduction, but I just felt I had no choice due to the side effects I started to suffer from due to the increase. 
 

Really hoping I’m not damaged forever now, the nausea and stomach pain is so brutal.. has anyone got any words of wisdom? 
 

Thanks 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by manymoretodays
merged from tapering, title added

[MNgal1960]

I'm so sorry you're feeling so poorly. Being a mum and working makes this extra hard. I have 2 kids now grown. Last one launched in June. When I was raising them it seemed I had illness after illness and my mind was always on how I was being a bad mom. But, you know what, they are fine, independent, young adults. Even my autistic son is on his own and doing well now. It feels like a huge weight off my shoulders. I want you to know that if your kids know you love them and are doing your best for them, they will be fine, too.

 

I, too, have been in terrible places I thought I would not survive, but I did survive. Please take heart and know you only have to get through today. I know as a mom it's harder to really feel that. But hang on and just get through today.

 

As for meds, I have no experience with tapering antidepressants, but I have plenty with benzos. I would strongly advise against taking one. I do not want to scare you with stories of benzo withdrawal. Just take my word, it is not something you want to go through. Better to give yourself more time and let your body have a chance to heal. One day at a time.

 

Hugs,

MNgal

[MNgal1960]

P.S. I sometimes get lost on the forum, but I will try to find you again! 

[Laurenjade08]

8 hours ago, MNgal1960 said:

I'm so sorry you're feeling so poorly. Being a mum and working makes this extra hard. I have 2 kids now grown. Last one launched in June. When I was raising them it seemed I had illness after illness and my mind was always on how I was being a bad mom. But, you know what, they are fine, independent, young adults. Even my autistic son is on his own and doing well now. It feels like a huge weight off my shoulders. I want you to know that if your kids know you love them and are doing your best for them, they will be fine, too.

 

I, too, have been in terrible places I thought I would not survive, but I did survive. Please take heart and know you only have to get through today. I know as a mom it's harder to really feel that. But hang on and just get through today.

 

As for meds, I have no experience with tapering antidepressants, but I have plenty with benzos. I would strongly advise against taking one. I do not want to scare you with stories of benzo withdrawal. Just take my word, it is not something you want to go through. Better to give yourself more time and let your body have a chance to heal. One day at a time.

 

Hugs,

MNgal

Hi MNgal

 

Thank you so much, this is just what I needed to hear right now. I do feel like an absolutely useless human being, never mind mother right now. I know I shouldn’t, and I’m giving them as much love and affection as I possibly can right now which is all I can give. 
 

Also RE the benzo.. I know what you’re saying. I’ve heard of and seen so many people struggling with benzo withdrawal - some people have said they have been through it and mirt is not much different, it’s brutal. 
 

Ive just dragged myself to drop my children off at school, and now I’m back home again feeling absolutely miserable. Not sure how to get myself out this hole, I suppose I just need to ride out the storm and wait for things to improve. 
 

I’m generally a ‘fixer’ type - I research and try any different supplements I can possibly find, in order to feel better, yet nothing helps. 
 

Thank you for the response, it means the world to me.

[Hamster]

8 hours ago, Laurenjade08 said:

I’m generally a ‘fixer’ type - I research and try any different supplements I can possibly find, in order to feel better, yet nothing helps. 

Hi Lauren,

 

sorry to hear you suffering ... I had similar experiences maybe 2 years ago. And I'm also a "fixer" type.
I took me quite some time and experiments and pain to realize and accept that there is no "fix".  
Talk therapy helped me a lot to tackle the underlying issues which made me depressed in the first place.
Some supplements might help a bit (or do not cause harm at least), but I never found a game changer. 

 

After having suffered badly from some drastic cuts, I finally ended up doing a "brassmonkey slide" - roughly 2.5 % reductions per week with some holding periods in between. I did not make my symptoms go away, but they became bearable over time.
And one of the main benefits for me was: No need to "fix" or "try" anything anymore. Every week I came a tiny bit closer to my goal. Some waves were really nasty but I could finally resist the urge to get rid of them by changing anything.

And today I am well below 1 mg AI for all my meds and feeling quite well.

 

So my advice: Stop looking for "fixes", try to find a dose on which you can stabilize and then start a slow and steady taper. The ride will be rough, esp. in the beginning. But you can make it.

 

Regards,

 

Hamster

 

 

 

[Laurenjade08]

23 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Hi Lauren,

 

sorry to hear you suffering ... I had similar experiences maybe 2 years ago. And I'm also a "fixer" type.
I took me quite some time and experiments and pain to realize and accept that there is no "fix".  
Talk therapy helped me a lot to tackle the underlying issues which made me depressed in the first place.
Some supplements might help a bit (or do not cause harm at least), but I never found a game changer. 

 

After having suffered badly from some drastic cuts, I finally ended up doing a "brassmonkey slide" - roughly 2.5 % reductions per week with some holding periods in between. I did not make my symptoms go away, but they became bearable over time.
And one of the main benefits for me was: No need to "fix" or "try" anything anymore. Every week I came a tiny bit closer to my goal. Some waves were really nasty but I could finally resist the urge to get rid of them by changing anything.

And today I am well below 1 mg AI for all my meds and feeling quite well.

 

So my advice: Stop looking for "fixes", try to find a dose on which you can stabilize and then start a slow and steady taper. The ride will be rough, esp. in the beginning. But you can make it.

 

Regards,

 

Hamster

 

 

 

Hi - I really appreciate your message back. Did you find from dropping down from 30mg to 15mg of mirtazapine you were suffering too?

I’m so sorry - this rubbish is evil. 
Like you, I tapered all the way down from 22.5mg to 10mg doing 3% reductions, and then hit a huge wall and panicked. 
But this is something else.. hopefully it will pass soon. 
Glad to hear you’re doing ok now. 
 

Lauren

[manymoretodays]

On 1/24/2021 at 10:33 AM, Laurenjade08 said:

Titled:  What to do now?

 

Hi everyone 

 
I’m really struggling, and not sure what to do, or if there is anything I can do! 
 

I was tapering off mirtazapine, but I hit 10mg and was hit with the worst symptoms, so updosed up to 30mg.

The docs were telling me I need to up to 37.5mg to see if it got rid of my ‘bad’ days, so I tried that for 4 weeks and ended up with suicidal ideation and a host of other symptoms.

So I ignored the docs, and dropped to 30mg 2 weeks ago.

 

For the last 5 days, I’ve had extreme nausea, where acid keeps coming up, my anxiety is through the roof and I feel very very weak.

I am aware that this is a 20% reduction, but I just felt I had no choice due to the side effects I started to suffer from due to the increase. 
 

Really hoping I’m not damaged forever now, the nausea and stomach pain is so brutal.. has anyone got any words of wisdom? 
 

Thanks 

 

 

Hi Laurenjade08, @Laurenjade08

I've got you all merged up now, back to your main Introduction topic.  And no this won't last forever.

And I'm hoping the SI has improved.  What were the host of other symptoms that came on and had you going up in dosage so high?

How had you been doing your taper, up to the point of getting down to 10 mg?

 

I think your nervous system just got thrown through a loop, and is now pretty dysregulated.  And you are feeling all of that.  Have you been able to use any non-drug coping for the anxiety?  I haven't gotten through your whole introduction, to see if we've linked you up to any.  There are so many things to try and get familiar with in non-drug coping........and then over time, hopefully, and practice, you gain more skills in coping without having to change or add medications.  I just gave you one of the main links, where you'll see a whole list of indexed topics in the first post there to pick from.

 

Do you ever get the gastroenterology work up that you posted about almost 2 years ago?

 

Are you able to get fluids and some bland foods in.

 

And then could you update your signature, to reflect some of the more recent changes.  Get some years in there too, and you may be able to condense a bit, to get updates into the 12 lines allowed as well.

Please summarize your withdrawal history:

FOR READABILITY, SHORT LINES ARE BEST.

• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs
• Include ALL drugs, doses, and dates (starting and stopping)
• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years
• Use actual dates or approximate dates (e.g. mid-June 2018) rather than relative time frames (e.g. 3 months ago)
• Spell out months (e.g. "January" or "Jan" as 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as 9 Jan 2016 or 1 Sept 2016)
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses

 

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

 

If you edit your signature, the new one replaces any prior signature. It will appear in your signature under all your posts, even your old posts. If you want to save the information in the old signature, copy it and save it in a file on your computer or in a post in your Introductions topic.

 

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And oh.......so sorry for your current symptoms, it sounds really hard right now.  For now, I'd just like to get your information squared away a bit, and then we can go from there.  Sound okay?  Thank you.

 

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Hamster]

Hi, I cannot really recall this time in sufficient detail - I was feeling awful, both at 30mg as well as at 15mg. I am quite sensitive to most kinds of medication (for me, doses of painkillers usually prescribed for children are sufficient to kill a bad headache ...), so maybe I was simply overdosed. So reducing from 30mg to 15mg to 7.5mg the withdrawal did not make too much of a difference - it was bad anyway. I was tired all day long and I had really bad morning lows.

 

I think the physical symptoms were all there with every reduction from the very beginning - nausea and digestive problems the most prominent. The peak was always around days 3-5 after the reduction.  Over time I learned to expect it and that made coping a bit easier.

 

Hamster

 

BTW: Feeling useless and being useless is not the same. In withdrawal, our mind wants to tell us, that we are useless for the people around us. I know how this feels. But we are not. You are not. And (hopefully) sooner or later you will feel different again. 

[Laurenjade08]

On 1/25/2021 at 8:28 PM, manymoretodays said:

 

Hi Laurenjade08, @Laurenjade08

I've got you all merged up now, back to your main Introduction topic.  And no this won't last forever.

And I'm hoping the SI has improved.  What were the host of other symptoms that came on and had you going up in dosage so high?

How had you been doing your taper, up to the point of getting down to 10 mg?

 

I think your nervous system just got thrown through a loop, and is now pretty dysregulated.  And you are feeling all of that.  Have you been able to use any non-drug coping for the anxiety?  I haven't gotten through your whole introduction, to see if we've linked you up to any.  There are so many things to try and get familiar with in non-drug coping........and then over time, hopefully, and practice, you gain more skills in coping without having to change or add medications.  I just gave you one of the main links, where you'll see a whole list of indexed topics in the first post there to pick from.

 

Do you ever get the gastroenterology work up that you posted about almost 2 years ago?

 

Are you able to get fluids and some bland foods in.

 

And then could you update your signature, to reflect some of the more recent changes.  Get some years in there too, and you may be able to condense a bit, to get updates into the 12 lines allowed as well.

Please summarize your withdrawal history:

FOR READABILITY, SHORT LINES ARE BEST.

• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs
• Include ALL drugs, doses, and dates (starting and stopping)
• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years
• Use actual dates or approximate dates (e.g. mid-June 2018) rather than relative time frames (e.g. 3 months ago)
• Spell out months (e.g. "January" or "Jan" as 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as 9 Jan 2016 or 1 Sept 2016)
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses

 

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

 

If you edit your signature, the new one replaces any prior signature. It will appear in your signature under all your posts, even your old posts. If you want to save the information in the old signature, copy it and save it in a file on your computer or in a post in your Introductions topic.

 

(As of 12/31/13: Signatures are limited to 12 lines of text.)

How to add or edit your signature

1. Click on this link to open the correct page in User Settings:
   Create Your Signature in "Account Settings". 

And oh.......so sorry for your current symptoms, it sounds really hard right now.  For now, I'd just like to get your information squared away a bit, and then we can go from there.  Sound okay?  Thank you.

 

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Hi MMT,

Thank you so much for getting back to me. I have updated my signature on my laptop, so hopefully now it makes much more sense. 

The last couple of days, I have experiences some very small improvements, but improvements nontheless. 

The 'whole host of symptoms' was very vague, I'm sorry, I was in a very bad place. The most debilitating of these included severe nausea (dry heaving) loss of appetite, anxiety, adrenaline rushes, panic attacks (capopedal spasms). There are others, like dry eyes, broken sleep, tiredness, shaking, head burning.. but these seemed not to be as severe. All of these symptoms were experienced with both the increase, and the withdrawal, which either means that it was withdrawal or it was that this dose was still in my system until this point. 

 

Today I feel better in that I can walk, and not just sit on the sofa or bed. I still have awful nausea and anxiety, but the adrenaline rushes have calmed down and I haven't yet experienced another panic attack... and I am working, not sitting around moping waiting for time to pass. 

The mornings are brutal - the symptoms seem to decrease slowly come midday, feeling best around 5pm until bed time. I highly believe this could be due to messing around with my CNS (of course) but also, morning cortisol levels.

 

I have heard good things about a whole host of supplements, like fish oil, magnesium and vitamin C powder.. however, do you think it would be best to not introduce anything at all at this stage?

I'll have to admit, I did try one thing and I have been using it the last few days - Rescue Remedy. I do believe it is helping slightly, so I'm going to stick with it for now. 

 

Thank you for your response and support.

 

Lauren

[Laurenjade08]

On 1/25/2021 at 8:33 PM, Hamster said:

Hi, I cannot really recall this time in sufficient detail - I was feeling awful, both at 30mg as well as at 15mg. I am quite sensitive to most kinds of medication (for me, doses of painkillers usually prescribed for children are sufficient to kill a bad headache ...), so maybe I was simply overdosed. So reducing from 30mg to 15mg to 7.5mg the withdrawal did not make too much of a difference - it was bad anyway. I was tired all day long and I had really bad morning lows.

 

I think the physical symptoms were all there with every reduction from the very beginning - nausea and digestive problems the most prominent. The peak was always around days 3-5 after the reduction.  Over time I learned to expect it and that made coping a bit easier.

 

Hamster

 

BTW: Feeling useless and being useless is not the same. In withdrawal, our mind wants to tell us, that we are useless for the people around us. I know how this feels. But we are not. You are not. And (hopefully) sooner or later you will feel different again. 

Hi Hamster,

 

Thank you for your response. 

I'm sorry to hear it had such an adverse effect - I've heard for some it really doesn't suit them.

Mirtazapine was the only medication I have tried that actually gave me zero start up symptoms.. which perhaps, makes it even more dangerous on reflection.

I went to the GP with stomach pain - they attributed this to my 'GAD' diagnosis (from when I was 8YO) and said that this is highly likely to be anxiety. I trusted what the GP said, and tried fluoxetine. Long story short, that was the worst experience of my life. 

I was then told I needed to try something else, so was put on Mirtazapine. I felt quite good until 10 days in (again, on reflection, this was probably me feeling well and then the drug getting its grips on my system)

 

I went up to 22.5mg, as I was sobbing daily with nausea as well, which wasn't great given my profession, and caring for my own patients being one of my roles (Don't worry, I'm not in general medicine).

I then suddenly became VERY ANGRY all the time. I have two small children, and had no patience and felt very disconnected from them, so began to taper. 

 

Through experience, with different taper amounts, I settled at around 3% per month. I still had symptoms 1/2 days in the month, but bearable. I got to 10mg and then severe anxiety, nausea, vomiting and depression hit. Out of pure desperation to get back to my job, I increased pretty quickly, all the way to 37.5mg trying to find some relief. Now, I'm at 30mg and think I'm suffering withdrawal again, from the 4 weeks of the additional 7.5mg I was told to try, again, by my GP.

 

Thank you for the note around feeling useless - this definitely makes sense and eased the concerns that I have around it slightly. I am up and about, but I'm usually a very 'house proud' person, and do everything for my children, which I am currently unable to do. Of course, this comes with a whole host of guilt and self loathing, but I've explained things to them (in a child friendly manner) and I know they understand. 

 

You're doing so well on such a low dose, I hope that you are feeling better now.

 

Lauren

[MNgal1960]

I'm so glad you are seeing some improvement. It may seem small and slow, but it is proof your body knows how to heal!💟

[Laurenjade08]

100% agree. I think I’m back to baseline, some anxiety and some bouts of nausea as usual, but my mood is now pretty stable. 
 

Thanks to everyone for your guidance and support!

[Laurenjade08]

Hi everyone,

So I’ve gone onto another medication, although I feel like I’ve failed, I also felt so desperate with SI I didn’t feel like I had much of a choice. 
I’ve never found much stability on mirtazapine, even with the months of use between dose change, I’ve felt really unwell, it’s affected my life for years which I’m sure you can all relate to.

My question is about venlafaxine - I know it’s a strong drug, and of course my worry is about tapering. Can anyone tell me, the capsules with the beads, do these exist within the UK? And are they the small beads, or the larger ones? 
I’ve started 37.5XR. 
I tried so many supplements to try to help myself over the last 6 months, nothing worked

Thank you 🙏 

[ChessieCat]

I've moved you post to your Introduction topic to keep your history in one place.

 

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6 hours ago, Laurenjade08 said:

My question is about venlafaxine - I know it’s a strong drug, and of course my worry is about tapering. Can anyone tell me, the capsules with the beads, do these exist within the UK? And are they the small beads, or the larger ones? 

 

I suggest that you go to the chemist and speak with the pharmacist and find out what forms of the drug are available.  Also ask what type you will get with the prescription you have, because sometimes the doctor will be specific about what is to be dispensed.

 

Brand Effexor is the little beads.  Some/all of the generics have several small disks inside a capsule; it is harder to taper using these.

[Laurenjade08]

Hi Chessie,

Thank you for your response, I will do that! 
I have already updated my signature before posting - can you not see the additions? Sorry! 
I appreciate your advice! 

[ChessieCat]

Sorry I couldn't see it.  I've moved that line down and bolded venlafaxine so it is more obvious.

 

Please read this:

 

about-going-off-mirtazapine-plus-venlafaxine-effexor-aka-california-rocket-fuel

 

[Laurenjade08]

10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Sorry I couldn't see it.  I've moved that line down and bolded venlafaxine so it is more obvious.

 

Please read this:

 

about-going-off-mirtazapine-plus-venlafaxine-effexor-aka-california-rocket-fuel

 

Thank you again - I have read the page already, the information just seems limited and I can’t see any success with removal of Mirt from the combo, and wanted to know a little more about tapering ven from people from the UK if possible. 
I am taking 37.5mg XR tablets, and wondered if there were beaded capsules for in the future when I try again to come off medications. 
My brain is just currently in overdrive because of the anxiety, I know ven isn’t a good drug and is another that can be incredibly difficult to taper from, it’s just with the SI and nil by mouth, I felt desperate for some relief as I have two small children and not much in terms of support. 
I am grateful for your advice and this website, with the wealth of information provided, enabling people to follow harm reduction methods of tapering. 
Lauren 

[Laurenjade08]

Hi everyone - I hope you are all keeping well. 
I thought I’d check in with an update, in case people were following my story and wanted to know where I am at now. 
 

As you are aware, as of April 22 I introduced Venlafaxine (Effexor) after a severe bout of SI, vomiting and tremors.. I think, personally, that as I fluctuated between doses so much all the way from 15mg up to 37.5mg for a short period (before panic attacks started) that I have kindled my CNS and it was no longer tolerating mirtazapine. 
 

Although my taper method is not recommended, I did try to taper by 3% approx 3-4 weekly and still suffered what I referred to as ‘symptoms’, that now, on reflection, could have been that mirtazapine just didn’t work for me and I associated my ‘symptoms’ to the taper. Equally, I could be wrong, and it may have just been that I did suffer from withdrawal. 
 

Anyway.. since April 22 I have reduced by larger amounts, but still fairly slowly? 22.5 to 15mg when I started 37.5mg Venlafaxine. 
I then increased the Ven again to 75mg and reduced the mirtazapine to 7.5mg. 
Since that point, at the very start of November I reduced to 3.75mg, and 4 days ago, I dropped to nothing. My doctor has advised that I try to increase the Venlafaxine, however, I have categorically declined. On research, I now understand that Venlafaxine works more as an SSRI until 150mg+ dose has been reached, more of the SNRI work begins, and in my head, I think I will (hopefully) have a slightly easier time if I do not increase my dose. (Unlikely, but I can dream!)

 

I never ever thought I would be able to get off this drug, ever, and I was ‘doomed’ and stuck on it for the rest of my life. Today, although I am suffering withdrawal symptoms, I cried with relief that I have finally made it - even if I do have another one to come off. 
 

My current, and most prominent symptom is severe nausea, with heaving, but nothing is coming as I haven’t eaten much the last few days. 
 

This time, I am determined to stay off the medication - it’s never worked for me, the first time I tried to taper was after only 3 months of taking it, when I had such a bad few weeks of severe rage, I was screaming at my children and I am one of the most calm mothers that you will ever come across. I found that so distressing for them, and myself and the guilt, that I tried to come off, but each time ended up bed bound. 
 

4 years later, I am grateful for all I have learnt and the people I have spoken to. You all have a heart of gold, and thank you to @Altostrataand @ChessieCat for your support and patience. 
 

I know, as soon as I am ready to do so (hopefully later this year) I will begin my Venlafaxine taper and come off the drugs I was placed on, irresponsibly, for stomach pain. 
 

For anyone struggling, if you haven’t already done so, consider changing your diet. I have not consumed any caffeine or alcohol in 4 long years. Approximately 1 year ago, I chose to also start a gluten free diet, that has not only helped with my stomach related issues, but also my skin as a nice, welcome surprise. Although I’m not super strict with a low FODMAP or histamine diet indefinitely, I have also had periods when I have been struggling immensely (such as now) where I am also following a lot of guidance from those diets. 
 

I will keep checking peoples stories on here, and hope to one day be able to say I am also free from anti depressants, and withdrawal, and be able to help others more in certain situations with the knowledge I have gained from this experience. 
 

Thank you so much 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Laurenjade08

[Laurenjade08]

Update: week 8 into 0mg mirtazapine.

 

Well, this journey has been pretty rubbish so far! 
move had definite days of feeling ‘better’, not symptom free, but able to cope with day to day life. 
I am currently in a 7 day wave, the first 5 days were more severe anxiety, yesterday and today are additional nausea and a very bad headache/migraine with aura yesterday. 
 

Right now, I feel like I am back at the beginning of withdrawal, and it is disheartening. I try and read the information about windows and waves, but the unknown really is starting to get to me today. 
 

All I do know is, this head pain isn’t pleasant, however I know it’s very likely to be withdrawal, and I need to remind myself my brain is healing - even though that is very difficult right now. 
 

Thank you all. 
 

 

[RKroos]

Hello. How have you been?