MatrixCode: protracted withdrawal is real - please help me to find my way

[MatrixCode]

@ChessieCat

 

My doctor suggests transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) theraphy for side effects and withdrawals from cymbalta. what do you think about it? thank you

[MatrixCode]

This is why when someone has been off the drug for more than a month, we suggest trying a very low dose. Hypersensitization is so common with withdrawal syndrome, trying a very low dose initially reduces the risk of a severe adverse reaction. And quite frequently, a very low dose will work to reduce withdrawal symptoms.

 

I read this from the article and I think my nervous system is hypersensitized because it is so fragile during the waves. It gets fragile, so sensitive to light, sound, people, relationships.everything. until the next window that appears. then Im fine for the half of the day. tomorrow will be the 4rd way that I will be taking 1 mg very low dose cymbalta. 

 

 

 

  

cmusic

[bubble]

On 3/10/2019 at 7:36 PM, MatrixCode said:

and should I stop tapering off my solian until  Im stable with cymbalta?

 

This is very important! Are you saying you started tapering Solian also? Please give more information about this. If you indeed started reducing it, please stop immediately.

 

 

On 3/10/2019 at 7:36 PM, MatrixCode said:

now I think Im having a window. Im feeling alright. but  I know it's temporary. 

 

The fact that you have windows is very important. It shows the reinstatement is working. I didn't reinstate Cymbalta but regardless of what drug we took, stopped taking abruptly and reinstated the process is the same. If you open and read almost any thread here you will see that a lot of people are or have been going through the exact same thing you are going through right now. I stopped Prozac and Zoloft a number of times and Lexapro two times. Each time I reinstated and managed to stabilize. It took weeks, it was just as you are describing but I was grateful for any short and temporary relief and accepted I had to feel very bad for a while until my brain fixed itself from that injury. We can't speed that process no more than we can speed up healing a broken bone. But we can make it last longer and be more painful with our impatience and changing doses of drugs .

 

 

On 3/10/2019 at 7:36 PM, MatrixCode said:

Is there anything that I can do to feel better (less panic) when Im having waves?

 

you can practice self-soothing and calming techniques: deep breathing,  a kid of meditation, anything that works to calm you down and distract you until it passes. We must learn how to sit with extreme discomfort and wait for it to pass.

 

 

On 3/10/2019 at 7:36 PM, MatrixCode said:

may 6 beads of cymbalta trigger waves in a bad way? 

 

you were taking Cymbalta for 7 years at a pretty high dose. Your brain remodeled itself and changed around it so that now it doesn't know how to function without it. That's why it is extremely grateful to you that it got this substance back. It is way more likely that Cymbalta is what brings you windows and stays between you and even worse symptoms.

 

Please read this short essay to learn more about this and the nature of the process you are going through.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[bubble]

On 3/10/2019 at 7:47 PM, MatrixCode said:

 

 

My doctor suggests transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) theraphy for side effects and withdrawals from cymbalta. what do you think about it? thank you

 

 

Here you can read about experiences of our members: 

I definitely wouldn't do it now when your brain is so sensitive as you notice yourself. It is badly injured and traumatized by sudden removal of Cymbalta. Give it time to recover. More is not better. Again, there are no shortcuts in the same way there is really nothing you can do to make the bone heal faster: rest and time are still the best. Attempting shortcuts makes things worse.

 

As I sadi, a much better idea is to practice self-soothing skills:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

  

When I was stabilising I would read about windws and waves a lot and it helped me to understand what I was going through, gave me hope and reduced fear.



 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[MatrixCode]

@bubble

I stopped reducing it today. I was weighing it on a scale It was 254-253 g I went down to 239 for a few days. now I get your response and go back to 254. which was my original 100mg solian.

I was having several mood swings so I go back to solian normal dose again. but I took it as a low mg (239grams) for 2 days. I don't know if it will make an impact.

 

 

 

I know thank you muchand Im reading them now. Im so grateful for your answers. and sorry Im still a rookie here. and I took 6 beads of cymbalta today again. I know it will take weeks to ease my symptoms somehow. but I want to say that 

 

I was also having windows during the time I was without cymbalta (when I did a fast tapering). my waves were coming and then windows were coming in a day(like having waves during the day and windows during the night)

 

 

 

 

[MatrixCode]

@bubble

 

and I want to ask about zoloft that I quit. is it possible that Im having it's withdrawals mixed with cymbalta. I quit using zoloft after a month starting with 25 mg then tapering to 12 mg for 2 weeks then taking it 5-6 mg for a week. then going completely off?

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

What was the dosage of Rivotril you took by the way? When I stopped using my Diazepam I had these relentless crying spells too so it might have to do with your stopping Rivotril.

 

You have been using quite some psychotropic drugs. No wonder your nervous system is so sensitised now. Every drug that you took might contribute to your withdrawals. Therefore it's a good thing now for you to keep it stable and not experiment too much anymore for the foreseeable future.

[MatrixCode]

@PerAsperaAdAstra

 

 

I took rivotril for just 14 days. my doctor bridged me from cymbalta to setraline by using rivotril for 14 days. then I used setraline for a month. then I quit using rivotril and switched to zoloft 25 mg. I quit using it after a month.

 

I was using rivotril 2.5 mg was taking 3 drops in the morning 3 drops in the evening and 5 drops in the night. for 14 days

 

then I started using cymbalta 2 days ago with 1 mg instatement.

[MatrixCode]

doctors told me short term use of rivotril (15-30 days) wouldn't do anything

[MatrixCode]

@PerAsperaAdAstra

 

 

 

how can I go on now? can I continue to use 6 beads?

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

I would definitely continue with the advise given to you by the moderators and administrators of this site. They really know their stuff!

 

So yeah, 6 beads!

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[PerAsperaAdAstra]

 

On 3/11/2019 at 11:26 AM, MatrixCode said:

doctors told me short term use of rivotril (15-30 days) wouldn't do anything

 

And trust me on the fact that doctors aren't always knowledgeable regarding benzodiazepines (Rivotril among others). I have also been on for quite a short time but nonetheless I found stopping really really difficult. So you should definitely consider the fact that you stopping Rivotril might influence your withdrawal side effects.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[MatrixCode]

@PerAsperaAdAstra

 

 

I never think my withdrawals are related to rivotril. now I mixed all of those drugs withdrawals. what can I do to help myself? Please Im so hopeless.

 

 

my withdrawals are still so bad. 6 beads aren't helping is it too early? it's been 4 days Im still having long 1-2 hours of crying spells.

[ChessieCat]

 

On 3/11/2019 at 12:11 PM, MatrixCode said:

I never think my withdrawals are related to rivotril. 

 

 

The rivotril may have been covering up (stopped you from feeling) the withdrawal symptoms of the other drug/s.

 

 

On 3/11/2019 at 12:11 PM, MatrixCode said:

my withdrawals are still so bad. 6 beads aren't helping is it too early? it's been 4 days Im still having long 1-2 hours of crying spells.

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  I understand that you feel that it isn't working but you need to give it more time.

 

Please keep daily symptom notes on paper and post them here in your topic each day so that we can assess how the reinstatement is affecting your symptoms.

 

Example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[eymen23]

 

Hi MatrixCode,

 

I’m sorry to hear you’re struggling so much after a rapid taper from Cymbalta. This is known to be a difficult drug to withdraw from (although none of them are particularly easy). 

 

You were sensible to reinstate at a low dose as advised by the other moderators here. Please realise that this small reinstatement dosage is a potential means to reduce your withdrawal symptoms, not eliminate them entirely, and certainly not in a matter of days. 

 

After the rapid taper from Cymbalta, your nervous system seems to have become destabilised. Unfortunately, it will take some time, self-care and consistency for things to level back out again. The most important aspect of getting better for most members here is being patient and not making impulsive decisions. The last thing you want to do is end up on a new drug or high dosage in an attempt to feel better, only to feel worse. 

 

I know you are suffering now and that you will be feeling a strong sense of urgency to fix the situation and feel better, but I can assure you that by taking the 6 beads at the same time each day and being patient, you are doing everything just right. With your nervous system being so sensitive, it’s important you provide it with the same inputs every day so that it slowly has the chance to adapt. A nervous system cannot truly adapt to varying drugs and dosages. By keeping things consistent for a period of time, you’re giving your body a chance to work everything out, and it often ‘knows’ much more than we do. 

 

Windows are a good sign. Not just do they give you a break from the nasty symptoms, but they show that changes are happening and that things are slowly moving forward. Try to be grateful for having these moments of respite and not to ‘get greedy’ for more improvements, more quickly. Acceptance goes a long way in helping us get through withdrawal symptoms without making them worse or prolonging them.

 

Do you perform any non-drug coping techniques like mindfulness, deep breathing, CBT, low intensity exercise etc.?

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[MatrixCode]

@ChessieCat

 

 

 

I feel panic during the waves. and feel like they will NEVER finish. and started to live with that fear that they will come again in the morning. tomorrow is no better. im convinced. dying feelings. I cry for hours and feel so suicidal and awful that I somehow want to die so this **** finishes. it is still the same after taking cymbalta. someone told me that 1 mg does no effect is that true? I know I will wait for 1-2 weeks and see. but it's unbearable. I don't want to wake up some days.

 

I don't have a proper doctor that I always go and talk to. I try different doctors and they were not helping me to go back to cymbalta.

 

but I don't want to register another drug to my body which is bloated with rivotril, lustral and cymbalta, solian.

 

I don't want a new drug. but my relatives keep telling me to go and see a psychiatrist. he will probably give me another AD. And I will be bloated even more. RIGHT?

 

What I can say is there has been no difference since I was without cymbalta and Im with 1 mg cymbalta. Im also using solian and Im not tapering it. 

 

Unfortunately my sleeping times are gone so bad.

 

I wake up at 3 pm and sleep at 5-6 am now.

 

When I wake up with no problems for 15 to 45 minutes. taking my pills cymbalta 6 beads and solian 100 mg

 

about 3-4 pm I start to feel the urge to cry and Im having morning dreads. (I read it was called something like that)

 

about 5-6 pm I start to cry with so wicked horrible dying feelings, hardly speak. fatigue is there (I don't have brainzaps, nasuea or diziness.) (I rarely eat, lost some weight, unwilling to talk. I can't listen to music because it gaves me trouble. my nervous system is so weak and sensitised)

 

about 7 pm I still feel awful, cold, low energy, depressed and hardly speaking

 

about 8 pm I start to feel better and leave my house to feel better.

(I can't work now)

 

about 9 pm I start to feel normal but still have lack of power to speak, focus.

 

10 pm -  I feel okay. I can focus, talk.

 

2 am - I rest in bed

 

4-5 am - I try to sleep

 

 

THANK YOU

 

 

[MatrixCode]

 @eymen23

 

thank you for your beautiful support. 

 

I can't even drink coffee. my hypersensitised nervous system is so wreck that I can't do things properly and  I start to think I won't be able to cope with tomorrow's wave attack. because Im so miserable. 

 

Windows are a good sign. Not just do they give you a break from the nasty symptoms, but they show that changes are happening and that things are slowly moving forward. Try to be grateful for having these moments of respite and not to ‘get greedy’ for more improvements, more quickly. Acceptance goes a long way in helping us get through withdrawal symptoms without making them worse or prolonging them.

 

 Do you perform any non-drug coping techniques like mindfulness, deep breathing, CBT, low intensity exercise etc.?

 

 

Im still having the same length of windows that I was having when I was without cymbalta for 53 days ( when I did a fast taper) so it is still too early to see improvements right? I just pray to god that 6 beads won't make things even worse.

 

My family craves help from psychriatrists and tell me to submit myself to them for long time, do what they say and take new drugs. because they are also so tired from my waves and windows.... 

 

Im now reading about non-drug techniques thank you. you people are such a great human beings. 

 

and yes I have such a strong sense of urgency to fix the situation and feel better. My brain just makes me think that there will be no improvements with such a tiny dose. I don't know if I can cope with waiting for months to see my symptoms stabilize. (sorry just feeling like a wreck) But I want to believe.

 

Thank you so much

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eymen23]

MatrixCode,

 

You’re very welcome. Of course, your family are worried about you and they don’t know how to solve the situation, so they will encourage you to see the ‘experts’. Sadly, the psychiatrists are just as in the dark on how to help as your family. 

 

It’s a sad reality, but realising that the ‘experts’ didn’t know any more than me about emotional symptoms and how to improve them, was really empowering. It allowed me to feel confident in taking matters into my own hands and also feeling less like a vulnerable patient who needed help. 

 

It’s still very early in your reinstatement trial and by taking a small dose, you’ve reduced your risk of an adverse reaction. Please give it some time and the answers will present themselves. By taking notes of your symptoms and reviewing them objectively, patterns should start to emerge. In the meantime, please take care of yourself and read through some of the non-drug coping techniques we recommend. 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[MatrixCode]

@eymen23

 

Thank you. Im giving myself some time but my panic is triggering me in the morning. I feel like the waves will continue like for months maybe they will be less effective but they will be there as severe as they are now at least for a month.

 

I went for a night walk here because my heart rate increased maybe it is related to kortizol, stress and fear from the waves.

 

Im reading it thanks 

 

and I want to ask will a dose increase be necessary if 6 beads of cymbalta won't be enough to stabilize the symptoms? ( by the way Im using duxett which is another brand of duloxetine)

[ChessieCat]

 

We need you to keep daily symptom notes on paper and post them here in your topic each day.  This will let us assess your situation and work out if you need to stay on 6 beads or take a little bit more.

 

 

On 3/11/2019 at 9:05 PM, MatrixCode said:

Im using duxett which is another brand of duloxetine)

 

Q:  What dose is the capsule - how many milligrams (mg) of drug?

 

Q:  How many beads does a capsule have in it?

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[MatrixCode]

@ChessieCat

 

I will post my daily symptoms everyday. but it has been like the same since I quit using rivotril. I always had crying periods and spells and my daily situation is stable and nearly the same since february. I will post them tomorrow again. thank you so much

(Im having long windows and start to feel a lot better when my sleeping time is nearby)

 

 

I have 30 mg and 60 mg duxet capsules 

 

I will have to count them. my 30 mg capsule has 255 beads in it. (they have the same size)

 

I will count another 30 mg now. then count the 60 mg.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by ChessieCat
unbolded

[ChessieCat]

On 3/11/2019 at 9:54 PM, MatrixCode said:

I have 30 mg and 60 mg duxet capsules 

Are you using beads from 30mg or 60mg capsules?

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[MatrixCode]

 

 

Im using beads from 30 mg capsules  

[MatrixCode]

@ChessieCat

 

I weighted the whole capsules now there isn't much difference between their weight I weighted 30  mg capsules 230-235 grams and 60 mg capsules 430-35 grams. only 3-5 grams difference. does it matter I don't know but I wanted to add it.

 

now Im counting other 30 mg capsules and 60's.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Are you weighing the capsules or are you counting the number of beads in the capsules?

 

We need to know how many beads or in one capsule.  If you are using 30mg capsules, please count (not weigh) the number of beads in a 30mg capsule.

[Gracee]

 

"My family craves help from psychriatrists and tell me to submit myself to them for long time, do what they say and take new drugs. because they are also so tired from my waves and windows.... "

 

Hi MatrixCode.

I may be overstepping here because I don't know your situation with your family, except that they want you to get help from psychiatrists with more drugs........I know from experience that the less you get your family involved in your symptoms, the better off you will be.    

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[MatrixCode]

@ChessieCat

 

yes I thought maybe that would be necessary to know the weight but I count the beads inside 30 mg capsules. it is 255 beads

 

now counting other 30mgs and 60s

[MatrixCode]

@Gracee

 

. I know. they are just feeling miserable and sad during my waves. I told them not to get involved. 

[Gracee]

 

The moderators here are smart and know more about withdrawal than medical professionals.   You can trust them to help.   Focus on their questions and then provide them with your facts, they will give you a plan for recovery.   

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
removed old username

[Altostrata]

Hello, MatrixCode.

Don't worry about the number of beads in a Cymbalta capsule. Just be sure to take 6 beads from the same size capsule at the same time each day.

That you felt an immediate improvement when you took 6 beads is a good sign. You may have waves and windows for a while.

 

Please note your dosage of Solian was inconsistent for a bit. This may affect your hypersensitive nervous system as well.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and their dosages? Do you get weepy at any particular time of day?

 

Your sleep schedule is very odd. For most of your life, did you have a more normal sleep schedule, or did you always sleep in the day? This can affect your mood, too.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
replaced old username with new username

[MatrixCode]

@Altostrata

 

Thank you so much. This web site is my last hope 

 

 

 

6 took another 6 beads today with solian 100 mg. now Im taking it with same dose. I knew that It may have a bad impact. 

 

I take my drugs at 4 pm usually. 100 mg solian and 6 beads of cymbalta.

 

Altostrata yes I feel weepy during the day. sometimes I feel stress like emotions, starts with heart rate, my body tells me that something is going wrong then I start to feel the urge to cry and send it out from my body

 

My sleeping schedule is temporary it has changed after I started to feel uncomfortable about light and sounds that I was having during the day. but it becomes better again. I know it will.  

 

I try to socialize in places like cafes and restourants to help mood. I try not to have negative discussion with people it also keeps me down and effects my nervous system badly.Im taking multi vitamins, omega 3  and magnesium to feel better. 

 

today again I woke up at 3 pm and still haven't had a crying period today.  I want to believe that Im going to feel better today. will see. is it alright for me to drink 1-2 cup of coffees during the way?

 

but I have a loss of appetite and I eat less.

 

 

[MatrixCode]

panic that Im having during the waves and irrational feelings usually make me think that my daily routines and life will never be what It used to be. it isn't right, right?

 

And I feel cold easily.

 

That you felt an immediate improvement when you took 6 beads is a good sign. You may have waves and windows for a while

 

 

 

 

my windows were still happening when I was without cymbalta or was tapering off  zoloft (25-12-6 mg for a month). it became so bad in last 2-3 days. but I was always having long night windows. now again Im having long night windows too.

I hope I will see improvement after today's date.  I just want to be stable on cymbalta and do a slow taper if I can. no matter if it takes years or months. thank you so much. you are such a great people.

 

[MatrixCode]

Hello @Altostrata @ChessieCat

 

 

 

today I haven't had a crying period. But I thought maybe it's just a lucky day that I haven't had a wave. but also Im not feeling as good as I felt during my windows.  Actually Im having anxiety today. Im trying to control it

 

I have "fears for no reason, like something bad is going to happen feeling now."   

 

And they told me that going back to cymbalta and stabilizing on it would take months or years?  

 

 

 

I used to go back to cymbalta from CT once after 21-22 days, I did it successfuly.

 

I feel like this would go away if I had cried today.

 

3 p.m. Woke with anxiety
4 p.m. Took solian 100 mg and 6 beads of cymbalta
5 p.m. Ate a little bit
6 p.m. I noticed that I have fatigue.
7 p.m.  I felt tired
8 p.m. went out to feel better.
9 p.m. Feel a bit better
10 p.m. I started to feel anxiety like feelings. like fear for no reason and urge to cry. ( I didn't)
11 p.m. Ate dinner
12 p.m. feeling a bit anxiety (now)
 

 

I know being stabilized and symptom free are different things. but is there a chance that I may start to feel better within weeks?

 

[ChessieCat]

On 3/12/2019 at 9:53 AM, MatrixCode said:

is it alright for me to drink 1-2 cup of coffees during the way?

I've stopped drinking caffeinated beverages because it increased my anxiety/agitation.  caffeine-in-coffee-or-tea-tolerance-issues

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep
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[MatrixCode]

@ChessieCat 

 

 

 

I want to ask something. crying helps to reduce the anxiety and panicking things for me. is it normal during the withdrawals?I found myself in much higher anxiety, obsessive ideas and irrational thoughts after not having a crying period today.

it's like my brain's emergency signal so it gives me relief.

[Gracee]

Do you make yourself cry, and then you feel better?