entcian24: my introduction

[entcian24]

Hi,

 

Ive been taking Antidepressants since January 2016(I was 22 then, 25 now), when i had hard time focussing at work & broke down in office in front of everyone, out of nowhere. The symptoms although had been showing up since 2013, when I started feeling vague, blank & angry,frustrated. I also started having panic attacks (2 times) in august & october, 2015. Most bad thing about depression is lack of confidence, ability to make firm decisions about academics ,job. Constant body aches have also worsened my mood, function. My limbs ache a lot; Ive gradually given up on physical activities, jogging, playing soccer,cricket,etc..these days i force myself to gym thrice a week, cause i had put on a lot last year. 

 

I grew up in a clumsy, difficult family , I grew up watching quarrels,skirmishes between my parents & was always very sensitive..Kind of people pleaser, not offending but also very harsh on myself kind of person.

 

My first psychiatrist(Jan,2016-June,2018 ) : He started me with sensival 25 mg (Nortriptyline), and later added on escitalopram in the mornings. There were other drugs too, for brief periods like miratazapine,etc.. Mood would improve/boost, i would function well for about a few weeks, & then would crash down. sensival 25 mg (Nortriptyline) is something that was constant throughout that period. I soon realized it's something more than antidepressants that i should be looking for, something holistic to solve the problrems that i had in personal family life, my nature, my worklife, etc...Medicines seemed to hit a plateau, but my doctor wouldnt listen to my continual requests to wean off. Only when i developed serious constipation, weight gain(12 kgs in 8 months..also abruptly gave up my job due to fatigue,lack of direction ) that i decided to switch my doctor.

 

My second psychiatrist (June 2018 - present ) : Constipation did ease, my new doctor is more willing to lend an ear..Alprazolam 0.25 in the morning &{ Escitalopram (5 mg) + Clonazepam (0.5 mg)} is something that ive been taking since...

But confidence, work issues still persist, I also started to work with my dad around the same period to present day. it's very stressful, demanding on my dad's part, but this atleast is keeping me moving, pass my life, however miserable, painful it is. I also cocooned at home for 3 months before reluctantly joining him at work. It's a blue collar job at a paint shop, wherein im required to match paints, deal with diff customers(throat dries up in fear,anxiety). in stark contrast to the desk job that i had prior to this, im now standing for 7-8 hours a day, experiencing wrenching fatigue when i get back home. My life feels very poor, miserable. Ive never seriously contemplated suicide, despite wanting to when in ruins(wincing bodily pain, scolded upon)! I get to work with iso-cyanide containing accelerators at my shop, that could painlessly kill me in milliseconds (As lab people claim.),  but ive always collected myself into believing that my life could turnaround for the better.

 

Fast forward, feb 2019, i decided to also take up homeopathy treatment for my problems, slowly my homeopath asked me to give up(cold turkey,  4-5 weeks on, now) alprazolam 0.25 in the morning, as my mood improved. I witnessed increase in pain, twitching, weight loss(something i like), upon giving up alprazolam 0.25, psychytrist says i must put up with this pain, & ill soon get used to it(Good & frank on his part, most psychiatrists never want you to wean off)...

Meanwhile, with my homeopath it's work in progress, & down the line, when my cold turkey symptoms normalize, Ill also think about giving up my evening dose of { Escitalopram (5 mg) + Clonazepam (0.5 mg)}, slowly tapering this time...

 

My increased sleep, due to fatigue is something that i must overcome to become a regular at work.

This forum, has given me immense hope & ideas about how people like me are dealing with their stuff. Like 10 % tapering rule, success stories by hope2heal, etc.. are heartening to read.

I wish to thrive and function normally in life, rather than just miserably slogging,surviving that i have been doing now.

 

Thank & Cheers,

entcian24

Mumbai, India.

 

 

 

 

[Shep]

Hi, Entcian.

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

I see you've stopped alprazolam cold turkey 4 weeks ago. Is that correct? 

 

You're on clonazepam, which is also a benzodiazepine. Do you feel like the clonazepam is enough or do you feel that it would help to reinstate the alprazolam? Please note that it's best to reinstate a benzo within 2 - 4 weeks from coming off, so you're right at the edge of that time frame.

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

Please continue to use this thread to document your taper and to ask questions.

 

As you provide more information, we can help you set up a safe and careful taper plan. 

[entcian24]

How do you deal with strong emotions?

 

I started reducing my escitalopram from 5mg to now 3mg. The biggest challenge I have during the course of withdrawal is strong emotions. Akathisia, along with rage, anger, disappointment, restlessness has been the most frustrating. Would love to hear, how fellow SA mates have dealt with it?

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[mva96]

Hi mate,

 

I usually go for a very gentle walk and listen to some music. Sometimes i'l just go for a walk and be mindful of what is around me. Don't be afraid to spend some time by yourself.

[ChessieCat]

neuro-emotions

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

[ChessieCat]

On 3/11/2019 at 10:11 AM, Shep said:

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements.

 

Please add your drug signature.  That way we can see your drug history at a glance whenever you post.  Thank you.

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature
Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[entcian24]

On 11/3/2020 at 9:53 PM, mva96 said:

Hi mate,

 

I usually go for a very gentle walk and listen to some music. Sometimes i'l just go for a walk and be mindful of what is around me. Don't be afraid to spend some time by yourself.

Hey mva96, Thanks for your words. At the end of the day, I feel numb with long day of laborious work, tough boss, clients.

I wallow in pain with music, untill sleep comes. Can't think of soothing walks.

Will definitely give it a try when I can. 

[manymoretodays]

  

2 hours ago, entcian24 said:

Wow! This has been such an informative & timely topic for me. Kudos to  @BellaC for so much clarity & updation.

 

Until 31 Oct 2020, I was taking 2.5 mg half tablet of escitalopram & 0.7gm solution(3.2mg escitalopram in all) . And things have gotten pretty bad since then, when I decided to switch to 3mg :all-liquid!

Will definitely try crossover technique. I jumped to all-liquid because cutting up the tablet was so much inconvenient & asymmetric.

 

Had to ask this: Do you weigh scale the crushed powder & swallow it with water? Or do you put the powder in gelatine capsules?

@ChessieCat,any suggestions on doing cross over are also welcome.

 

Hi entician24, @entcian24

I just brought this post back here to your topic too.

I think, if I were you, I might go on back to what you had been doing.....the 2.5 mg half tablet and 0.7 mg solution/liquid.  And then just stay put, or stay there, until we can sort things out with your dosing.  It may take a bit of time for your system to re-adjust, and then hopefully stabilize again.  I'd give it at least a week or two, before any other changes in formulations or tapering.

 

How have things gotten pretty bad?

 

So you are presently on 3 mg escitalopram, all liquid?  And then decreased from 3.2 mg, to 3.0 mg, and switched to liquid on November 20th?

Do you have the pharmacy made liquid?  What concentration is it?  How many mg per mL?

 

Are you still on the clonazepam 0.5 mg?

What time do you take each of your drugs?

What kind of symptoms are you having now?

 

And yes, I can relate too, as a Lexapro/excitalopram survivor, to how hard it became once I got below 5 mg in dosage.

 

And yes.  I'm glad you saw the cross over explained over on BellaC's topic.  I'll repeat it over here, as to crossing over from solid form to liquid form of medication, what we usually suggest:

Keep the dose the same, don't taper and switch forms of medication, at the same time.

Days 1-3  3/4 dose in old form and 1/4 dose new form

Days 4-6  1/2 dose old form and 1/2 dose new form

Days 7-9  1/4 dose old form and 3/4 dose new form

Day 10 to all of dose in the new form. 

And then HOLD a bit longer before tapering.  Also if, you need to hold longer, during any time of the crossover, for more than 3 days, that's okay too.  Listen to your body and symptoms.

 

entician, you may want to go again, into editing with your signature.  And then just note medication/tapering information there.  Any WD(withdrawal) symptoms can go right here on your Intro page, or questions regarding your taper.  Account Settings/signature should take you right to your signature.

 

And best.  L, P, H, G,

mmt

 

Just adding a copy of your present signature here too, prior to your edits.  (Again, things like objectives, and symptoms should go here, on your introduction topic posts).  And thank you, in advance.    Just ask, if any questions around this.

 

Started anti depressants in Feb 2016

Started with an array of medicines nortriptyline 25mg, lorazepam 1mg, clonazepam 0.5mg, escitalopram. Have stuck to esc + clonazepam since Dec2018 & to escitalopram since May 2020, owing to better sleep, body pain management.

 

Tapering objective: To feel active,energetic not drowsy, beaten down. With AD I feel foggy, disconnected, dependent & sleep a lot)

 

Tapering as follows: (I find first 3-4 weeks after tapering extremely challenging)

• Clonazepam (0.5mg)+ Escitalopram Oxalate (5mg)  (Feb 2019 to Dec 2019: 5mg to 3.7mg) in 3 steps. Face zaps, better fluid release,strange dreams) increased inflammation after each taper.
• further reduction(Dec'19 to May'20) (3.7 to 3.5mg). Increased urine output, lose weight, wake up actively. But body inflammation intensifies.
• Further( May20 to Nov20): switch to escitalopram (3.2mg) alone to reduce drowsiness. Body inflammation, tiredness. Diarrhea, indigestion affect energy, nutrition levels.
• (Nov 20 to date) 3mg escitalopram all liquid. Very challenging to deal with drowsiness, sleep, palpitations. Besides, feel restless, angry, irritated often. Empty stomach dosages cause stomach aches.

Big challenge to survive work pressure, without great digestion, absorption. Get excruciating body ache, tiredness.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by manymoretodays
added signature copy and comment

[BellaC]

  

9 hours ago, entcian24 said:

Wow! This has been such an informative & timely topic for me. Kudos to  @BellaC for so much clarity & updation.

 

Until 31 Oct 2020, I was taking 2.5 mg half tablet of escitalopram & 0.7gm solution(3.2mg escitalopram in all) . And things have gotten pretty bad since then, when I decided to switch to 3mg :all-liquid!

Will definitely try crossover technique. I jumped to all-liquid because cutting up the tablet was so much inconvenient & asymmetric.

 

Had to ask this: Do you weigh scale the crushed powder & swallow it with water? Or do you put the powder in gelatine capsules?

@ChessieCat,any suggestions on doing cross over are also welcome.

Hello @entcian24,

To answer your question, I no longer weigh crushed power because my mini digital scale simply fails to detect the weight as the dosage is so low. I tried to get away with it initially (by eyeballing and pushing a small pile of power around...) however it eventually caused instability and unpleasant symptoms. However, the weighing method was working perfectly fine for me until recently.

 

Suggested by members from this wonderful forum, I switched to liquid method about 1 month ago. I basically homemade the liquid solution by mixing crushed escitalopram power and water (with certain ratio of course), and I use a small syringe to measure out the volume of solution to consume daily. I didn't do crossover technique because my weighing method failed completely - I had nothing to crossover with. So I jumped into the liquid solution and thankfully it worked out for me. Everything stabilized after I switched to liquid solution. This method is so much more accurate. It allows my brain to adapt to the lower dosage steadily, without too much suffering. When tapering, going slow and steady is the key, you do not want roller coaster.  

 

I also want to make a side comment, which might not related to the question you asked...But I feel important to point out after reading your Intro. You wrote "I grew up in a clumsy, difficult family , I grew up watching quarrels, skirmishes between my parents & was always very sensitive..Kind of people pleaser, not offending but also very harsh on myself kind of person." I wanted you to know that your childhood experience is very much like mine, and I think whatever we are experiencing mentally or physically, is a manifestation of trauma happened in the past. I believe that to heal from trauma, medication is not the ultimate answer. However medication CAN help sometimes, and CAN be an easy way out when you have so much going on in your life. 

 

I know everyone on this forum wants to quit medications. But please remember, drug free is not the goal, living a happy and fulfilling life is the goal. So, in my opinion, you really need to evaluate your current life situation before you decide whether this is the RIGHT time to do this. Quitting medication requires a lot of support, from yourself and from your environment.

 

I relied on medication for many years because I couldn't afford the consequences of me falling apart. Work, school, money...I had to deal with those survival needs first. It wasn't until recent years that my life became stable with a few loving, caring and supportive people. This is the time I decided to quit medications. Because I know even if I fall apart, I will still be okay with the support in place. Speaking from my personal experience, love has replaced my drug! 

 

So please listen to your own body and mind, and analyze your situations. You know what's the best for yourself, and YOU WILL RECOVER (this is a fact, not belief).

 

Best wishes.

Bella C

[entcian24]

20 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

  

 

Hi entician24, @entcian24

I just brought this post back here to your topic too.

I think, if I were you, I might go on back to what you had been doing.....the 2.5 mg half tablet and 0.7 mg solution/liquid.  And then just stay put, or stay there, until we can sort things out with your dosing.  It may take a bit of time for your system to re-adjust, and then hopefully stabilize again.  I'd give it at least a week or two, before any other changes in formulations or tapering.

 

How have things gotten pretty bad?

 

So you are presently on 3 mg escitalopram, all liquid?  And then decreased from 3.2 mg, to 3.0 mg, and switched to liquid on November 20th?

Do you have the pharmacy made liquid?  What concentration is it?  How many mg per mL?

 

Are you still on the clonazepam 0.5 mg?

What time do you take each of your drugs?

What kind of symptoms are you having now?

 

And yes, I can relate too, as a Lexapro/excitalopram survivor, to how hard it became once I got below 5 mg in dosage.

 

And yes.  I'm glad you saw the cross over explained over on BellaC's topic.  I'll repeat it over here, as to crossing over from solid form to liquid form of medication, what we usually suggest:

Keep the dose the same, don't taper and switch forms of medication, at the same time.

Days 1-3  3/4 dose in old form and 1/4 dose new form

Days 4-6  1/2 dose old form and 1/2 dose new form

Days 7-9  1/4 dose old form and 3/4 dose new form

Day 10 to all of dose in the new form. 

And then HOLD a bit longer before tapering.  Also if, you need to hold longer, during any time of the crossover, for more than 3 days, that's okay too.  Listen to your body and symptoms.

 

entician, you may want to go again, into editing with your signature.  And then just note medication/tapering information there.  Any WD(withdrawal) symptoms can go right here on your Intro page, or questions regarding your taper.  Account Settings/signature should take you right to your signature.

 

And best.  L, P, H, G,

mmt

 

Just adding a copy of your present signature here too, prior to your edits.  (Again, things like objectives, and symptoms should go here, on your introduction topic posts).  And thank you, in advance.    Just ask, if any questions around this.

 

Started anti depressants in Feb 2016

Started with an array of medicines nortriptyline 25mg, lorazepam 1mg, clonazepam 0.5mg, escitalopram. Have stuck to esc + clonazepam since Dec2018 & to escitalopram since May 2020, owing to better sleep, body pain management.

 

Tapering objective: To feel active,energetic not drowsy, beaten down. With AD I feel foggy, disconnected, dependent & sleep a lot)

 

Tapering as follows: (I find first 3-4 weeks after tapering extremely challenging)

• Clonazepam (0.5mg)+ Escitalopram Oxalate (5mg)  (Feb 2019 to Dec 2019: 5mg to 3.7mg) in 3 steps. Face zaps, better fluid release,strange dreams) increased inflammation after each taper.
• further reduction(Dec'19 to May'20) (3.7 to 3.5mg). Increased urine output, lose weight, wake up actively. But body inflammation intensifies.
• Further( May20 to Nov20): switch to escitalopram (3.2mg) alone to reduce drowsiness. Body inflammation, tiredness. Diarrhea, indigestion affect energy, nutrition levels.
• (Nov 20 to date) 3mg escitalopram all liquid. Very challenging to deal with drowsiness, sleep, palpitations. Besides, feel restless, angry, irritated often. Empty stomach dosages cause stomach aches.

Big challenge to survive work pressure, without great digestion, absorption. Get excruciating body ache, tiredness.

 

 

Woahh! amazing questions youve asked @manymoretodays!!!! :-)

 

Already planning to move back to old route(2.5 pill  +0.7 liquid!)

 

1. Yes, i switched to all liquid on 1st Nov 2020. before that i took (2.5 tab + 0.7 liquid). The liquid escitalopram is dissolved by me (Self Titrated) in a marked beaker & measured out to consume through syringe.

 

The mg/ml ratio is 0.167! is it okay?Am i doing okay? or should i increase that?

 

2.  I transitioned from (3.2mg esc+ 0.5 clonazepam)  to 3.2mg escitalopram  alone, after consulting with my Dr, to reduce sleepiness, laziness from 1st May 2020. Not much Side effects, largely owing to relaxed life/ no work challenges during corona lockdown.

 

3.  I have my meds at 9PM each day, just before my dinner. Also, having it close to dinner, does not give my stomach aches, other gastro issues.

 

4. Most recurrent challenging things faced by me since 2013.: 

1) I get tired easily, have body aches, back aches, leg pains. I have constant upset stomach.I feel i cant digest important nutrients, hence the pains & mental agony. But gastro dr thinks that it's because of my mental illness that i face IBS. 

2) Feelings of low confidence, overwhelm & fear are constantly lingering in my mind. Dont know what future holds for me, whether professionally or in personal life. changed 3 jobs in 3 different fields, feel disconnected, aloof in each of them. Current job engaging, but very tiring! Sticking to it, only because, shifting often is painful, have to learn from scratch. Plus, jumping too many jobs is challenging. desk jobs(IT process)-->> imcompetence, mental pressure. Current retail paint mixing job---> competence but toxic environment, work pressure, overwhelm.Legs are on fire at days end!!!

Was also Jobless for a while for 3 months(Dec 2017-Feb 2018), felt very bad, lied on bed all the time, but mental chatter & worry was the most.

 

Luckily sleep has been okay for me.

 

  Symptoms that i've been feeling for the past 3 odd weeks are:

    (1) I work in a challenging retail store, with hazardous paint chemicals around.Have to be on my feet all day, take notes in odd postures. Easily tired, angered, irritated by                      people, work load, want to answer back to boss. Thoughts about leaving my job, taking a big break are frequent.

    (2) Wanna curse, abuse people. Easily triggered by work pressure.

    (3) Simply wanna shout,cry, tell my boss about my mental illness...Abuse him, the work conditions that I am getting easily irritated with. But cannot afford to do so.

    (4) Have no career option besides the current one, that thought scares me. Sometimes, have suicidal thoughts, that i must end this misery of pain & confusion. But always                  have a glimmer of hope that things might improve.

 

  Will definitely try that safer crossover technique. So much to learn from others experiences.

 

Thanks a ton @manymoretodays for asking such useful questions.

God bless this Forum! 

[entcian24]

13 hours ago, BellaC said:

  

Hello @entcian24,

To answer your question, I no longer weigh crushed power because my mini digital scale simply fails to detect the weight as the dosage is so low. I tried to get away with it initially (by eyeballing and pushing a small pile of power around...) however it eventually caused instability and unpleasant symptoms. However, the weighing method was working perfectly fine for me until recently.

 

Suggested by members from this wonderful forum, I switched to liquid method about 1 month ago. I basically homemade the liquid solution by mixing crushed escitalopram power and water (with certain ratio of course), and I use a small syringe to measure out the volume of solution to consume daily. I didn't do crossover technique because my weighing method failed completely - I had nothing to crossover with. So I jumped into the liquid solution and thankfully it worked out for me. Everything stabilized after I switched to liquid solution. This method is so much more accurate. It allows my brain to adapt to the lower dosage steadily, without too much suffering. When tapering, going slow and steady is the key, you do not want roller coaster.  

 

I also want to make a side comment, which might not related to the question you asked...But I feel important to point out after reading your Intro. You wrote "I grew up in a clumsy, difficult family , I grew up watching quarrels, skirmishes between my parents & was always very sensitive..Kind of people pleaser, not offending but also very harsh on myself kind of person." I wanted you to know that your childhood experience is very much like mine, and I think whatever we are experiencing mentally or physically, is a manifestation of trauma happened in the past. I believe that to heal from trauma, medication is not the ultimate answer. However medication CAN help sometimes, and CAN be an easy way out when you have so much going on in your life. 

 

I know everyone on this forum wants to quit medications. But please remember, drug free is not the goal, living a happy and fulfilling life is the goal. So, in my opinion, you really need to evaluate your current life situation before you decide whether this is the RIGHT time to do this. Quitting medication requires a lot of support, from yourself and from your environment.

 

I relied on medication for many years because I couldn't afford the consequences of me falling apart. Work, school, money...I had to deal with those survival needs first. It wasn't until recent years that my life became stable with a few loving, caring and supportive people. This is the time I decided to quit medications. Because I know even if I fall apart, I will still be okay with the support in place. Speaking from my personal experience, love has replaced my drug! 

 

So please listen to your own body and mind, and analyze your situations. You know what's the best for yourself, and YOU WILL RECOVER (this is a fact, not belief).

 

Best wishes.

Bella C

Hi @BellaC, 

 

I would love to know what mg/ml (mg of medicine per ml of water)ratio you apply to your current dosage?

 

So glad that you are among loving, caring people around you , with great support!!! By sharing your experiences on this forum, you've been also supportive of people like me. Kudos!🙂

 

Yes, meds are not an end in themselves, but only assist us in happy, joyful living. There is always that trade-off of meds helping us function, keep going...but we are trying to reduce dependance on meds, to forego its side-effects.

 

For the time-being, I'll go-slow in my WD journey. Recuperate from my current jump to all-liquid --> back to liquid+tablet.

 

Thanks & cheers.

[manymoretodays]

On 11/26/2020 at 10:16 AM, entcian24 said:

The mg/ml ratio is 0.167! is it okay?Am i doing okay? or should i increase that?

 

Hi.

So you've got 0.167 mg per mL?  How did you come up with that kind of ratio? 

Are you using a 5 mg tablet/pill and then dissolving it in a set amount of water?

 

So with what you've got, your current dilution of 0.167mg/ mL

-then I come up with 0.7 mg escitalopram being present in 4.2 mL of the liquid.

-and then you are back to taking this with a 1/2 tablet of a 5 mg pill? 

-or 2.5 mg + 0.7 mg to equal 3.2 mg total/day now

 

Does that ^ concur with your math(s)?

 

Yay, on sleep being adequate.  Not so yay on the job.  Do protect yourself from paint fumes.

Also:  Neuroemotions

You are not alone in what you are going through entcian24.  Not around here.

 

Oh, and entcian24.  I'm very doubtful that you have any mental illness.

Please see: Again, chemical imbalance is a myth

And:  What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

You might also google: Robert Whitaker, and his book "Anatomy of an Epidemic"

You can also find him on youtube.

 

You have just probably had some very normal reactions to life, situations, traumas......and now WD(withdrawal), just like most of us here.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by manymoretodays
at end, additional

[entcian24]

18 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Does that ^ concur with your math(s)?

It's pretty difficult to explain actually. But I'll still try.

(1) 3mg all liquid (1 Nov 2020-25 Nov 2020).

- 2x 5mg tablets in 60ml beaker water. I.e. 10mg/60ml = 1mg/6ml.

- remove 6ml from beaker.  What remains is 9mg/54ml.

- now I use that 54ml over three days. 18ml(3mg) each day.

-3 mg/18ml. = 0.167.

 

(2) current 3.2mg(2.5mg pill+ 0.7 liquid)

-liquid part:

-2.5mg tab(5mg painstakingly cut into 2 by blade) dissolved in 50ml water. I.e. 0.05mg/ml

-throw out 8ml(8*0.05=0.4mg) from beaker.

- remaining is 2.1 mg in 42ml water.

- use that 42ml over 3 days. 14ml(0.7mg) each day with 2.5mg tablet.

- concentration in this case is 0.05mg/ml.

 

Are these concentrations, okay? Are they too low or too high? What are yours? Is concentration important?.

 

Yes,Neuroemotions is a really helpful topic.

 

19 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Oh, and entcian24.  I'm very doubtful that you have any mental illness.

Please see: Again, chemical imbalance is a myth

And:  What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

 

Thanks for the links!

Sigh, it's not just chemical imbalance, but multitude of other socio,genetic, environmental factors. I need to wrestle my way out of each of it, and not just blame specifically the mental aspect!

 

Will stay strong through wd.

 

Thanks 🙂

 

 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi entcian,

And yes.  I think that your math(s) are good. 

And those concentrations look okay too.

And it is important, to stick with the same method.  That results in consistency and should serve you well.

 

It sounds like you may have found this link and looked at it, but I will put it here for reference:

Tips for tapering off excitalopram/Lexapro

 

Also:  Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

has an indexed list, where you'll see more links to topics on tapering

 

How are you doing since your shift back, to cut pill and liquid.  Started on the 26th, November?  Any improvement in symptoms yet?

Would you give a try a symptom and medication logs or notes?  If you just note the time on the left, then on the right note your medication(s) by name and dose.  Also on the right note your symptoms as they occur throughout the day.  Include sleep.  And any supplements by name and dose.

And then post 24 hours of the notes.  These can be helpful to see just how you respond to your medications, and especially during times of changes, objectively.

A sample note can be seen here:  Keep daily notes of drug schedules and symptoms to track patterns and progress

 

And entcian, it can more difficult, when going below 5 mg with escitalopram.  And I'm hoping that some of the recent symptoms improve in the next weeks time, a little bit. 

Then at that point, you might wish to HOLD for a bit longer, before doing another taper.  Generally, 4-6 weeks is a good HOLD period.  And I can see in your signature that you have indeed, held longer when needed.  That's a great way to go about it.

 

What kind of percentage drop have you been doing with your tapers to date?

And here is another link for you, for reference:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

And then we also have many that taper by less than that too.  What we'd love, and I'm sure you would too, would be to have you be able to function pretty well through the whole experience.  Often listening to your body and learning that way how to go, with tapering, and forward really helps.

 

Obviously, you ARE staying strong entcian.  I just want to make sure that you are getting the support that you deserve around this tapering venture too.  You don't have to do it alone.  And we've got the site filled with lot's of different topics now, and non-drug coping practices and ideas that can come in real handy.

 

Okay, and best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[BellaC]

On 11/26/2020 at 9:30 AM, entcian24 said:

Hi @BellaC, 

 

I would love to know what mg/ml (mg of medicine per ml of water)ratio you apply to your current dosage?

Hello @entcian24,

Here the ration I am using---- Lexapro : Water = 1 : 3       that is,        1.5mg Lexapro : 4.5ml Water

I was prescribed with 5mg Lexapro pill, each pill weights about 0.069g.

1. first I measure out 0.021g pill (has 1.5mg active Lexapro in it) with a scale. Then a crush it to powder.
2. I then dissolve the power in 4.5ml water (measure out with a syringe). I store the solution in a small sealed bottle in refrigerator.
3. I gently shake the bottle before taking the liquid solution with a 1mg syringe. I realize the tiny particles distribute more evenly after shaking. 

I currently take 0.4ml solution (has 0.13mg Lexapro in it) every morning. My solution mathematically shall last 11 days, 4.5ml/0.4ml daily=11 days. But I like "fresh" solution, so I use it for 1 week. I discard the rest and make new solution by the end of the week. I don't concern about "wasting" the pills, since my dosage is so low, I was prescribed with more than enough supply. 

 

For each tapering, I follow 15% rule. So next time it will be [0.4ml solution] * 85%=0.34ml solution, if everything goes well.

And I make sure I am completely symptom free before I go lower. If I still experience withdraw symptoms or discomforts, I just hold.

 

Hope this helps. 

[entcian24]

On 11/28/2020 at 9:49 PM, manymoretodays said:

How are you doing since your shift back, to cut pill and liquid.  Started on the 26th, November?  Any improvement in symptoms yet?

Initially, for first 4-5days I had shoulder, back ache. Leg inflammation seems to be fine through the day, but it feels burning when I sleep at night. Overall, shivers/zaps are better. I feel also a little better in my body, since reinstating to 3.2mg

 

I aslo have started IBS hypnosis therapy via app called 'nerva'. I also took a course of metronidazole for 3 days, to kill of stomach germs & diarrhea.

 

I've actually been tapering less than 10%, and holding it off for more than 8 weeks many times. 

I feel 3.2 mg is an important level, I should now carefully reduce.

[entcian24]

I've sure jumped backed to 3.2mg, but this time the concentrations are different.

 

Earlier it was:(Nov 20-nov 30)

On 11/28/2020 at 9:01 PM, entcian24 said:

current 3.2mg(2.5mg pill+ 0.7 liquid)

-liquid part:

-2.5mg tab(5mg painstakingly cut into 2 by blade) dissolved in 50ml water. I.e. 0.05mg/ml

-throw out 8ml(8*0.05=0.4mg) from beaker.

- remaining is 2.1 mg in 42ml water.

- use that 42ml over 3 days. 14ml(0.7mg) each day with 2.5mg tablet.

- concentration in this case is 0.05mg/ml.

 

 

Out of nowhere, I decided on Nov 30, that I should change it to 0.1mg/ml, for sake of convenience, ease & I was feeling comfortable!!

But then, the unusual has happened, I've been experiencing extreme pressure at work, & I feel like 'I've lost some armour in my defence'. ( I feel sensitive around my stomach).The pressure at workplace, will continue to be & I feel too much difficult too even get up in the morning & carry through the day!!!!!

 

Another dilemma, if I should switch back to 0.05mg?? Are my current symptoms of muscle pain, joint ache solely because of change in concentration? Or is workplace pressure too much??

My days are spent thinking, if I should leave my job, give up? But what would I be doing with my life? Feeling tense, suicidal as I write this.

Extreme leg ache, tiredness, inflammation.

Making frequent changes in concentrations is good or a terrible mistake! Stuck!!!!

[Shep]

17 hours ago, entcian24 said:

Another dilemma, if I should switch back to 0.05mg?? Are my current symptoms of muscle pain, joint ache solely because of change in concentration? Or is workplace pressure too much??

 

entcian, are you tensing up at work? That could be causing the muscle pain. You may want to bring in stretching or gentle yoga to help with the muscle pain. It won't solve your job problems, but it likely will make you more comfortable. 

 

Non-drug techniques for dealing with body pain

 

Are you able to tolerate magnesium? That can also help with muscle pain.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi entician,

I think if you stick with the same concentration now, and from here on out, you should be okay.  And hopefully the bumps should level out.

Are you still doing the same amount of solid form?

 

Can you look again at the Lexapro tapering topic?  And then see if you might want to get the pharmacy liquid, or begin weighing the solid portion of your dose? 

Just please don't shift to all liquid, without any crossing over.

And HOLD with your current dose, for now.

 

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[entcian24]

It's been 2 complete months since I switched back to 3.2mg. Also started to take Magnesium Glycine Complex and Vit d3 tablet (250mg Mg glycine & 1000IU vit d3), half tablet every alternate day.

Meanwhile, external factors were extremely difficult, It has been very back breaking(body, leg inflammation) & mentally pressurizing at work, causing me to have very low mood after I return back home after work(brooding/complaining in my head about my work conditions, my boss,my pain). Often wanting to leave the Job, start trading stocks from home (I hate to stay at home with Parents). But I often motivate myself to get back to work the next day. I also believe that I could afford(I have savings) to take break, leave the job. But often get anxious If i become lazy, useless, & not ever have meaningful life ever, If I give up on work. I also get anxious If I would ever be able to settle on a vocation, If due to my leg inflammation, and corresponding mood disorder, cannot devote to work?

I have confusion now:
A. I feel I WOULD want to increase the dosage. Scarily, the Dr might prescribe me even more newer meds. I may never competely, go off meds! But, will the increase in dosage of escitalopram, ever improve my irritable mood, pain caused by INCREASED work pressure?

B. Or should I look for alternate treatments. Is there any other alternate treatment, my fellow SAers?? Take frequent breaks from work, to manage pain?(I would feel extremely guilty by doing that!)

The mg glycinate has been an important crutch, often lead me to increased apetite, thirst & vigour at times to continue to work! But i feel it's effects are plateuing. 

 

I'm a vegetable with negative thoughts , after I get back from work. So no question of mtivating myself to do Yoga, exercise. ITS PAINFULLLL.
I Am confused.

Should i increase to 3.4mg and see for 3-4 weeks? instead of asking Dr to start newer meds?(Dr will probably prescribe me zapiz 0.5)
 

[Shep]

19 hours ago, entcian24 said:

It's been 2 complete months since I switched back to 3.2mg. Also started to take Magnesium Glycine Complex and Vit d3 tablet (250mg Mg glycine & 1000IU vit d3), half tablet every alternate day.

 

Alternating days with your supplements may be confusing your nervous system and could make you feel worse. Also, vitamin D3 can be stimulating for many people going through withdrawal. Please see:

 

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

 

 

19 hours ago, entcian24 said:

A. I feel I WOULD want to increase the dosage. Scarily, the Dr might prescribe me even more newer meds. I may never competely, go off meds! But, will the increase in dosage of escitalopram, ever improve my irritable mood, pain caused by INCREASED work pressure?

 

In some cases, an updose can help people feel better so they can cope better with increased work pressure. 

 

However, you've been at this same dose for 2 months, so your nervous system may have already acclimated to that dose. You could try a very, very small increase and see if it helps. 

 

19 hours ago, entcian24 said:

Take frequent breaks from work, to manage pain?(I would feel extremely guilty by doing that!)

 

Why would you feel guilty for taking care of yourself? In the long run, you're more help to others if you're healthy. 

 

If you have some vacation or sick time, definitely take some. That's better than quitting your job. See if a few days off helps. 

 

19 hours ago, entcian24 said:

So no question of mtivating myself to do Yoga, exercise. ITS PAINFULLLL.

 

Start with this yoga video. It's not painful and you can literally do it lying down. If your bed is against a wall, you don't even need to get out of bed for this. 

 

Legs Up The Wall - Foundations of Yoga video (7 minutes)

 

Simply lie down and put your feet up the wall. It's a restorative pose. 

 

19 hours ago, entcian24 said:

I also get anxious If I would ever be able to settle on a vocation, If due to my leg inflammation, and corresponding mood disorder, cannot devote to work?

 

I wouldn't try to game-plan your life when you're going through withdrawal. Also if you think you have a "disease" or a "disorder" of the mood, that may be hindering you from getting off these drugs. Please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

19 hours ago, entcian24 said:

Should i increase to 3.4mg and see for 3-4 weeks? instead of asking Dr to start newer meds?(Dr will probably prescribe me zapiz 0.5)
 

 

I would definitely try an updose before adding in zapiz. Also, keep in mind, just because a doctor prescribes something, doesn't mean you have to take it. 

 

How many hours are you sleeping at night? 

 

[entcian24]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Alternating days with your supplements may be confusing your nervous system and could make you feel worse. Also, vitamin D3 can be stimulating for many people going through withdrawal. Please see:

 

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

 

 

 

In some cases, an updose can help people feel better so they can cope better with increased work pressure. 

 

However, you've been at this same dose for 2 months, so your nervous system may have already acclimated to that dose. You could try a very, very small increase and see if it helps. 

 

 

Why would you feel guilty for taking care of yourself? In the long run, you're more help to others if you're healthy. 

 

If you have some vacation or sick time, definitely take some. That's better than quitting your job. See if a few days off helps. 

 

 

Start with this yoga video. It's not painful and you can literally do it lying down. If your bed is against a wall, you don't even need to get out of bed for this. 

 

Legs Up The Wall - Foundations of Yoga video (7 minutes)

 

Simply lie down and put your feet up the wall. It's a restorative pose. 

 

 

I wouldn't try to game-plan your life when you're going through withdrawal. Also if you think you have a "disease" or a "disorder" of the mood, that may be hindering you from getting off these drugs. Please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

 

I would definitely try an updose before adding in zapiz. Also, keep in mind, just because a doctor prescribes something, doesn't mean you have to take it. 

 

How many hours are you sleeping at night? 

 

Thanks @Shep.

 

Never knew if d3 could possibly cause flare ups.

 

I would want to stop mg,d3 for now.

 

Legs up the wall looks doable, will try that for sure.

 

My 'mood' is surely hindering my decision-making, ability to function well.

 

Will surely look to settle on 3.2 mg for now, without mgd3 supplement.

 

I Am sleeping okayish for 7-8 hours good rest. But leg inflammation, means I desire not to get up in the morning. Sometimes, unable to sleep rightaway(despite tiredness), maybe bcoz of mgd3!?!?

Cannot thank you enough Shep, for your reply 🙂

[Shep]

On 2/2/2021 at 10:44 AM, entcian24 said:

I would want to stop mg,d3 for now.

 

You could reduce it by 25% and see if that helps. 

 

On 2/2/2021 at 10:44 AM, entcian24 said:

Will surely look to settle on 3.2 mg for now, without mgd3 supplement.

 

I Am sleeping okayish for 7-8 hours good rest.

 

This sounds like a good plan, entcian. And your sleep is excellent. 

 

Let us know how you do with the reduce / elimination of vitamin D. 

 

[entcian24]

Relapsed back to 5mg on 1 March. Doc asked me to increase the dosage(had a panic attack, nervous fatigue), also wrote me this supplement to sooth nervous fatigue:

 

https://www.medplusmart.com/mCart/productComposition/null/24270/Alpha-lipoic-acid-100-MG-and-Folic-acid-1-5-MG

 

Had an rage attack on a co-worker, said some mean things. Feeling guilty for two days now.

 

Two panic attacks, a rage attack since Jan '21: Things are horrible.

 

Don't know whether to blame meds or own up responsibility of my own behaviour.

 

Changes since 1 March: increased water retention, sleepiness, laziness, 1-2 kgs weight gain.

 

Feel irritated all the time, just want to run away from people.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, decided to see a nutritionist to help with digestion issues.

[entcian24]

Currently taking escitalopram 3.5mg.

Want to taper further 5%.

I wonder taking 2.5mg(regular time at 9.30pm at night) and 1mg in the morning would help with the increased half-life time?

[Shep]

@entcian24This is the half-life for escitalopram (from the Tips for Tapering Off thread).

 

  

On 5/26/2011 at 10:16 PM, Altostrata said:

Its half-life is 27–32 hours http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17375980

 

With a half-life of 27-32 hours, you should be okay with once a day dosing. What symptoms are you having that makes you think you're having interdose withdrawal (going into withdrawal in between doses)? What time of day do the symptoms start? Are you taking any other drugs or supplements?

[entcian24]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:46 PM, Shep said:

@entcian24This is the half-life for escitalopram (from the Tips for Tapering Off thread).

 

  

 

With a half-life of 27-32 hours, you should be okay with once a day dosing. What symptoms are you having that makes you think you're having interdose withdrawal (going into withdrawal in between doses)? What time of day do the symptoms start? Are you taking any other drugs or supplements?

Thanks @Shep,

The symptoms I face are, increased agitation, neuro emotion in the evening, moodiness also.

 

By delaying a part of the drug, can I prolong the med presence in my body?

I think Fish oil does help me great deal. Besides, I also have been taking vit d(once a fortnight) & B tablets (twice a week).

[Shep]

8 hours ago, entcian24 said:

I think Fish oil does help me great deal. Besides, I also have been taking vit d(once a fortnight) & B tablets (twice a week).

 

I would be consistent with your supplements. Both vitamin D and B vitamins can be stimulating for some people. How much of each are you taking? Why are you taking them once a fortnight and twice a week?

[entcian24]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:09 AM, Shep said:

 

I would be consistent with your supplements. Both vitamin D and B vitamins can be stimulating for some people. How much of each are you taking? Why are you taking them once a fortnight and twice a week?

Vit D is 60k IU, vit B is B complex forte. Just as directed by a nutritionist.

Even fish oil helps, but it spoils my stomach in hot and humid summer here in India.

 

So I've even reduced the fish oil tabs to 2-3 days a week. Diarrhea is a big problem for me in summer.

 

Reduction in Medication now, is also causing lot of inflammation in legs, joints. I wonder how only a small reduction causes to much flare ups, aches in body?

[Shep]

6 hours ago, entcian24 said:

Vit D is 60k IU, vit B is B complex forte. Just as directed by a nutritionist.

 

You may want to keep a journal of your symptoms to see if you feel worse on the days when you take these types of mega doses. 60K IU is a lot of vitamin D. Do you sleep better or worse on the days that you take these?

 

Please see:

 

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

 

Vitamin B12 aka cobalamin: Essential for mood, nervous system

 

Hypersensitive to B vitamin or B vitamin complex?