☼ Katy398: I’ve tapered too quickly, what should I do?

[EmergingFromTheVoid]

Yay! @Katy398 Progress is good. So is sleep! 🙂

 

Those dang cortisol rushes though. Are they any less frequent or less intense than they were, say a month ago?

 

Fish oil and taken at night? I may have to try that.

 

You're a strong woman and you'll get there, hun. Thank you for letting us follow your journey. big hugs 🙂

[Katy398]

To be honest E,

The cortisol rushes have to be a little less intense, I’m crying less often through the day. They are still bad enough for me to class myself as still ‘thick in withdrawal. ‘

I’m feeling very optimistic about the fish oil She’s got me to build up to 10.92 grams of combined DHA+EPA which is a very high dose she says for 6 weeks Then on a maintenance of 2..73g It’s not cheap but I may try and stay on the high dose until I get better. 

Not sure yet I’ll see how I go

thanks for all the encouragement 

take care 

We all heal eventually

Kx

 

[RuuRee]

Hi Katy,

 

I’m also on the fence about reinstating Lexapro, and coming off the Prozac which doesn’t seem to be working! I did just up my dose to 40 so I’m thinking maybe my symptoms will get worse before they get better. Anyways, are you taking Magnesium at all? Maybe talk to your doctor about adding it as a supplement, it could help (especially with sleep). I hope you start feeling better soon! 😊

 

[Katy398]

Thank you RuuRee

The reinstate dilemma is tough.

If there are any moderators out there I’d like some advice.  Ive just had 2 weeks of pure hell. My symptoms have intensified particularly terror, dread and insomnia.  Stopped fish oil and Magnesium  for a few days/ nights to see if that was the cause  but it didn’t seem to be. 

I’m almost 1 year drug free. I’m not sure whether to reinstate at such a late stage or whether to ride out what could be the typical year wave. I was feeling optimistic at the beginning of the month but now very scared that I could be like this for years to come.

I was on ADs for 20 years, my last 4 or so years LEXAPRO built up to 40mgs a day!!!!

My jump off dose was 20 mgs of LEXAPRO!!! 

Very strong drug, very high dose to jump. My fast track Cold Turkey

was to drop 20mg a week for 14 weeks. 

Because I have now learnt that this Fast Track Cold Turkey was so extreme , I’m very worried that I could stay in this heightened state of a fear/ anxiety wave for years. 

If reinstating doesn’t stabilise me what will I then do. I can’t imagine coping with an increase in symptoms and intensity.

Any advice would be welcomed.

Thank you to all who are supporting me through this nightmare. 

K

[Altostrata]

Hello, Katy. How have your symptoms changed over the last 6 months?

[Katy398]

Hi Alto

Thanks for getting back to quickly.

my symptoms have not changed over the last 6 months but the intensity has changed. One week the insomnia may ease then comes back with  vengeance. The anxiety, terror and dread has not changed in 12 months. Suicidal thoughts vary in intensity week by week sometimes nothing sometimes severe. I am safe because I know I could do anything to harm my family. Depression varies week by week. 

This last two weeks have been incredibly intense tears, panic and meltdowns daily at some point. Then I can calm myself and get through another hour or so. I’m still managing part time work I gather myself then fall apart at the end. 

Scared because of the strength of AD that I CTed and the length of time on ADs

what do you think.

What would I do if I reinstated and got worse? what happens? Would I just stop or would I have to endure stabilising?

As you can imagine I’m very scared. 

Thanks again K

[Katy398]

Can I ask a question which I know will  have been asked many, many times before but I just can’t find a link to it.

How do I know if these symptoms are not my original symptoms, coming back with increased intensity?

I previously did suffer from

Anxiety and Depression with suicidal thoughts.

Admittedly I didn’t suffered from insomnia, but then I’m menopausal. 

I also didn’t experienced body jerking before, however a friend of mine, experienced this during extreme stress and she has never taken ADs in her life.

How do I know if this is not the old me here to stay?

It’s impossible to convince a GP or Psych.

Please could someone direct me to the most appropriate information.

 

 

[Alice1]

You can absolutely count on the original problem being a major portion of this whole mess . Its my opinion that severely protracted cases are the original problem fueling the vicious cycle of stress that keeps the cns hyperstimulated ..

[Altostrata]

Hi, Alice. I think Katy might misinterpret your post. Your own history demonstrates a withdrawal syndrome rather than relapse. I think you mean you need to learn new coping skills to deal with PAWS, or your own tendency to anxiety or catastrophizing might take over?

 

Katy, if your symptom pattern started during or after a dosage change or addition of a drug, it's probably caused by the drug changes. The severity and pattern of your symptoms -- coming in waves -- indicates they are from withdrawal. The content of your distress might be familiar to you because you will fill the drug-induced symptoms with your own habitual thoughts.

 

If the intensity of the symptoms has decreased, that's a good sign. But if your symptoms are intolerable, you might consider trying a reinstatement of 0.5mg citalopram. I suggest citalopram because it is escilatopram's gentler sibling, you've taken it before. A very low dose is less likely to set off kindling, making your symptoms worse. Prozac (fluoxetine) is also possible, but it's  not as closely related to your escilatopram, from which you have withdrawal syndrome. Both citalopram and fluoxetine come in prescription liquids so you can take a very small dose.

 

Unfortunately, it's unlikely you'll be able to find a doctor who will either confirm you have prolonged antidepressant withdrawal syndrome or be able to treat it. Like everyone else here, you'll have to make difficult decisions yourself.

[Goosie]

Hi I am not a mod, but in my own case The horrible symptoms were not “ old symptoms” coming back because I didn’t have them before the meds.  I had insomnia before the meds and after the meds I had insomnia plus a lot of other horrible symptoms.    

[EmergingFromTheVoid]

24 minutes ago, Goosie said:

Hi I am not a mod, but in my own case The horrible symptoms were not “ old symptoms” coming back because I didn’t have them before the meds.  I had insomnia before the meds and after the meds I had insomnia plus a lot of other horrible symptoms.    

 

But what about those who did have issues before? This is a valid concern. Some people actually need to take meds. When, how and who decides? 

[Altostrata]

52 minutes ago, EmergingFromTheVoid said:

 

But what about those who did have issues before? This is a valid concern. Some people actually need to take meds. When, how and who decides? 

 

We don't decide if people "need" to take psychiatric drugs. That decision is left to the person. All we do is provide tapering advice, if requested, and support for withdrawal syndrome. We don't urge anyone to taper if they don't want to.

 

If symptoms occur during or after a drug reduction, they are more likely to be withdrawal symptoms than "relapse." After taking the drugs for a while, your brain and nervous system and everything attached to them are altered by accommodation to the drug. This doesn't simply bounce back after the drug is removed, "relapsed" to the original state. You have a different nervous system etc. than you did before the drugs; at the very least, you're older.

 

If someone has "depression" or "anxiety" with other withdrawal symptoms after coming off a psychiatric drug, they are in withdrawal, not "relapse."  What's confusing is the overlap between "depression" and "anxiety" prior to drugs and "depression" and "anxiety" as withdrawal symptoms. While withdrawal "depression" and "anxiety" often have the same CONTENT as prior to taking the drug, they usually occur in the waves and windows pattern and progressively lessen in intensity. That is not the pattern of "relapse."

[sunnysideup69]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

If someone has "depression" or "anxiety" with other withdrawal symptoms after coming off a psychiatric drug, they are in withdrawal, not "relapse."  What's confusing is the overlap between "depression" and "anxiety" prior to drugs and "depression" and "anxiety" as withdrawal symptoms. While withdrawal "depression" and "anxiety" often have the same CONTENT as prior to taking the drug, they usually occur in the waves and windows pattern and progressively lessen in intensity. That is not the pattern of "relapse."

 

Morning @Altostrata and @EmergingFromTheVoid, just chipping in here. The above comment describes EXACTLY the mistake I have made before, thank you. I've mistaken WD for relapse a couple of times. I need to write this out and stick it somewhere, to remember.

[Katy398]

Thank you to all of you who have commented on the ‘Withdrawal / Relapse discussion. I definitely have a nervous melancholic disposition which has been with me since my teenage years. Now having looked into this further I  think that what I am going through is definitely WD because of the nature of it. I can be calm and collected one minute then an intense wave of terror can overwhelm me the next. Recently this has been happening up to 6/ 7 times a day.  Today for the first time in several weeks I have been able to contain the anxiety within without letting it take over. I did lots of 4/4/4/4 breathing.

I will see how the next few weeks go and maybe I’ll reinstate on a tiny dose in the new year.

I could have the next couple of years symptom free tapering off. It could get much worse or I could be in CT induced withdrawal for years to come. I’ll never know for sure. Thank you again for all your support  It is helping, every tiny step of the way. 

Take care everyone. Be kind to yourself Kx

[Katy398]

Hi Folks 

Are there any longterm users out there who have recovered. 20 years with a Fast Track /Cold Turkey from a very strong, very high dose of AD scares me.

I know same old, same old.

I just need some hope. 

Thank you 

Kx

 

[Tom37]

I’m sure there are plenty Katy. If you look at succes stories there are all sorts of people who have come off and recovered plus there will be plenty who don’t post their story for various reasons. When your out of wd and living life it’s not easy to come back and relive it all.

 

Sorry if your doubting recovery as I know what’s it like.

 

 

[Katy398]

Thank you Tom,

I have to develop my positivity. It’s low at the moment and that makes matters worse.

I need to put all my energy into picking myself up for my family over the next few days. 

Hard to avoid stress at this time of year!

Take care of you

you see to be in the thick of it as well.

Thinking of you 

Kx

 

[Katy398]

I am so overwhelmed with everything,  Housework/ garden / renovations etc. then lethargy kicks in. This happens daily.

I’m getting conflicting views some say don’t push yourself, rest and try not to fight the emotions. Accept and acknowledge.

Others say pick yourself up and push through with the chores. 

Which will help me heal  quicker.

Kx

 

[mdwstrx]

Hi Katy.  

22 minutes ago, Katy398 said:

Which will help me heal  quicker.

I find that the answer for me is usually whatever the moment calls for.  Time will pass and you will heal either way.  Your challenge is how to maximize the moment so you can best tolerate passing time.  Sometimes it means AAF and other times it means pushing through and feeling accomplished.  If you're overwhelmed, the AAF is the best approach.  Otherwise challenge yourself and you will grow in confidence over time.  At least that is what I do.  

md

 

[Katy398]

Thank you Md,

I see you’re on a Lexapro taper.

Good on you, unfortunately I CTed under doctors advice. Tuesday will be my 1 year anniversary drug free. It’s been the worst year of my life and life has not been easy for me at the best of times. I just hope 2020 will see  improvements for all of us who are suffering from this scandal. 

Take care Enjoy the rest of your holiday.Kx

[Goosie]

Hi @Katy398

I can share with you my experience.    For a very long time my symptoms were so severe that doing anything at all was out of the question.   However, as I started to improve I was able to do some limited chores and then I had the same question as you:  do I try to do more? Or just rest after my chore was done?    I would usually try to keep doing things until I just couldn’t anymore, but then I noticed a correlation between doing more during the day and worse insomnia.    At that point I decided to rest at the beach every day all afternoon even if I felt more energetic and I noticeably improved.    So in my case- the rest was very helpful.    I am obviously fortunate in that I have help to keep the house in order during my illness.   I have no idea how I would have survived without help.  
though much improved, I am still only able to do a few chores a day- far less than needed to keep a house in order.  

[RuuRee]

Hi @Katy398,

 

I agree with both Goosie and mdwstrx. I find that pushing myself when I’m having a good day/wave helps me get things done. Sometimes I prioritize by making a list of stuff that needs to be done and crossing stuff off once they are complete. But there are other times when I just can’t do anything and that is okay. I also CTed from Lexapro in August and started taking Prozac, but I’m still experiencing WD symptoms and it’s truly disheartening. I’m also considering tapering from the Prozac but WD scares the living **** out of me...

Best wishes for 2020 - I hope the new year brings you the healing you’re looking for. 

 

❤️

[Katy398]

Thank you for your support @RuuRee @Goosie And @mdwstrx, I so appreciate your support. It's amazing the lift I get having some contact with those who understand. I've resigned myself to another day in bed it seems such a shame on such a hot day.

My poor family, I feel so sorry for them. Thanks again folks you're such a support. Take care remember we all heal. Xxx

[Katy398]

Hi Folks

Here’s to a healing 2020,

New Years Day is my anniversary.
I am 1 year drug free.

I wish everyone a better year than last.

In addition to climate change reform my New Years wish is that this is the year 

that this horrific condition goes public, really public, headline news, world wide. I want 2020 to be the year that the medical profession are forced to acknowledge there is an urgent need for support, research and reform. I want more professionals to make it their mission to inform everyone who works in this field. This task cannot be left to the severely sick. We are not well, through medical negligence, we need support fast,  people are dying daily because of this terrible scandal.
What we need is  a ‘Greta Thunberg!’

Best wishes to all,

much love Kx

[wantrelief]

Congratulations on your one year anniversary, Katy - that is quite an accomplishment!   Wishing you lots of further healing in the year ahead.  

[Erell]

You're so right ! Yes we need a Greta Thunberg ! 

 

Congratulations for holding on one year without meds : may 2020 be a good year of healing!

 

You Will Feel better ❤

[Kernol]

18 hours ago, Katy398 said:

Hi Folks

Here’s to a healing 2020,

New Years Day is my anniversary.
I am 1 year drug free.

I wish everyone a better year than last.

In addition to climate change reform my New Years wish is that this is the year 

that this horrific condition goes public, really public, headline news, world wide. I want 2020 to be the year that the medical profession are forced to acknowledge there is an urgent need for support, research and reform. I want more professionals to make it their mission to inform everyone who works in this field. This task cannot be left to the severely sick. We are not well, through medical negligence, we need support fast,  people are dying daily because of this terrible scandal.
What we need is  a ‘Greta Thunberg!’

Best wishes to all,

much love Kx

couldn’t agree more Katy. Here in the UK it has had some coverage this year but not nearly enough. I wish you lots of healing for 2020 and hope that our similar terror experiences become a distant memory 

[JC1957]

Katy398, thanks for your input and congratulations!  Stay safe and keep us posted on your journey!  I am in full agreement: this whole system of misinformation, lack of informed consent, and just plain old greed has got to go.  Hoping to learn the means to do that in 2020, other than just personal struggle.

 

Happy New Year, everyone!

[Katy398]

Hi MMT,

Thank you so much for reaching out. Do a warrant a ‘here comes the sun’? I actually don’t know. I survived the first year, this is true. I’m still in the thick of waves and windows, still plagued with existential doom and dread. I am still very frightened. My sleep has been ok for the last few days, I managed to do two days in the garden tackling some of the many overwhelming tasks both of which are positives. Because I CTed from taking ADs for 20 years with the  last AD being a very high dose of a very strong AD I am very scared of how many years I have to endure this. I don’t know of anyone who CTed under in similar circumstances, who hasn’t had to endure many years of WD. 

Thank you for your kind thoughts MMT, encouragement like this keeps me going.

So pleased you survived your ordeal. Take care thanks again Kx

[Katy398]

Hi @wantrelief, @Erell, @Kernol  @JC1957,

Thank you so much for all your well wishes. It’s good to have the first year out of the way. Who knows what the future holds let’s hope 2020 will be better for all of us. 

Take care Kx

 

[Katy398]

Why is this scandal not headline news? There has to be something we can do. If a member of the royal family wears  the same dress  in public twice most of the newspapers in the world make this a headline. Thousands are suffering/ dying from a multimillion dollar pharmaceutical malpractice and the majority of the population are unaware. No matter how hard educated folk try to instigate reform. No matter how many years they fight to bring this to the attention of the general public, their relentless perseverance seems to be in vain. 

Come on all you investigative journalists,  this story is big. What can we do to get this scandal out?

 

[RuuRee]

@Katy398 I agree this epidemic we are going through needs more attention. It is crazy to me how easy it is to get prescribed an AD with no knowledge or enough research about the horrible withdrawal. Doctors are more weary when it comes to prescribing benzos and such, it should be the same for ADs should it not? They are mind altering drugs. I hope one day there is a shift in treating mental illness, a more holistic approach. I live in the U.S. and healthcare here is a joke...I’m just sick of the pharmaceutical industry, despite the good things it DOES do. 

[Katy398]

RuuRee,

That’s so true. It would make it so much easier for all of us if the general public knew about this. My closest friends just think I’m the one at fault for not going back on them. They think it’s some clean living crusade. They don’t believe the risk I would be taking reinstating after a year off them. They certainly don’t believe the Drs can’t help. Drs are Gods and Goddesses who who know EVERYTHING there is to know about health. Well that’s  my closest friends, my work colleagues barely speak to me anymore.  My natural withdrawal reaction to this, is that they just want me to leave fortunately my line manager has followed policy and has supported me.  If only they all knew. Even with Benzo and opioid dependency there is a stigma, the everyday folk in the street blame the patient for the addiction, not the Drs or the drug company who administered it. 

When I was given opioids after an operation I was told ‘I’ have to be careful because they are addictive not ‘we’ the prescribers have to be careful. 

I hate the judgement that’s attached to all this. It’s hard enough to go through withdrawal without adding blame on top of it all. I believe this is purely because this is related to mental illness. If a diabetes drugs made folk this ill there would be a public outcry. Before this happened to me I thought the stigma attached to mental illness was changing but now I don’t believe it has. We’re the second class citizens that nobody cares about,  unless that is they are making money out of us. 

Hang on in there RuuRee at least we have each other and today I need you all more than anything. 

take care Kx

[Lloyd]

Hi Katy congrats on your 1 year milestone! I hope this year brings improvements for you & you are able to start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. It's very frustrating talking to doctors about this. I've only had one doctor agree that this is possible as he had seen similar cases with long term narcotic use. I also get tired of people telling me to trust medical professionals. It's like they are brain washed into thinking that doctors always know best. The reality is they have no clue about the damage these drugs do. I've often heard people say anti-depressants are harder to stop than heroin & its so true. I gave up smoking years ago and i'd do it ten times over instead of having to stop Effexor again.

[Katy398]

@Lloyd, This is crazy, ‘harder than heroine,’ why is this not public knowledge. It’s ‘madness’ not only what we’re going through but also that no one seems to know about it. 

I hope 2020 is a better year for you Lloyd take care Kx

[mstimc]

1 hour ago, Lloyd said:

Hi Katy congrats on your 1 year milestone! I hope this year brings improvements for you & you are able to start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. It's very frustrating talking to doctors about this. I've only had one doctor agree that this is possible as he had seen similar cases with long term narcotic use. I also get tired of people telling me to trust medical professionals. It's like they are brain washed into thinking that doctors always know best. The reality is they have no clue about the damage these drugs do. I've often heard people say anti-depressants are harder to stop than heroin & its so true. I gave up smoking years ago and i'd do it ten times over instead of having to stop Effexor again.

 

20 minutes ago, Katy398 said:

@Lloyd, This is crazy, ‘harder than heroine,’ why is this not public knowledge. It’s ‘madness’ not only what we’re going through but also that no one seems to know about it. 

I hope 2020 is a better year for you Lloyd take care Kx

 

I'm not a conspiracy freak, but I do think most doctors, especially GP's and family doctors,  are in the thrall of pharmaceutical companies, at least to the degree that if the companies are telling them there are no serious WD side effects, then that must be true.  Trusting pharmaceutical companies to be honest about SSRI and benzo addiction is like asking the NRA to fund a gun control campaign.