☼ Katy398: I’ve tapered too quickly, what should I do?

[manymoretodays]

On 1/3/2020 at 8:33 PM, Katy398 said:

Hi MMT,

Thank you so much for reaching out. Do a warrant a ‘here comes the sun’? I actually don’t know. I survived the first year, this is true. I’m still in the thick of waves and windows, still plagued with existential doom and dread. I am still very frightened. My sleep has been ok for the last few days, I managed to do two days in the garden tackling some of the many overwhelming tasks both of which are positives. Because I CTed from taking ADs for 20 years with the  last AD being a very high dose of a very strong AD I am very scared of how many years I have to endure this. I don’t know of anyone who CTed under in similar circumstances, who hasn’t had to endure many years of WD. 

Thank you for your kind thoughts MMT, encouragement like this keeps me going.

So pleased you survived your ordeal. Take care thanks again Kx

 

Yes.  You do.  I'll hide the Sun, for now, and honor your request.  Maybe I will surprise you, and put it on back when you get the next long lasting window Katy.

 

And woah, that's a lot.........gardening while feeling yuck.  Plants need sunshine to grow.  Humans need it to heal too and you will get better, it will get easier.  And sleep!!!  Woohoo.

 

Don't get too lost in trying to convince the doctors right now........it can be extremely frustrating and you don't need that.  Anymore frustration.  I left you a bit more in PM.  Itty bitty touch of citalopram might be helpful.......even if it just works as a placebo for you.  I know we've discussed that before and I see Alto mentioned the option again just prior to my sunning.  You could liquify and even just take .25 mg every day.  And what are you doing with your supplements right now?  The magnesium and/or omega's?

 

And let's get to work on more non-drug coping too.  Skills and all.  Do you have a bathtub?  Sounds odd but that became my refuge for a long time.  That and the Epsom salts.  And I still get hit, once in awhile, too.......with the tougher emo stuff.  I go to meditation groups and take walks.  Going to get back into yoga.  Oh, and swimming........so great for me........I get mellow after just a few laps.

 

I've got to run today, back soon.  ((((((((Katy398))))))  Waving my healing wand too.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited January 5, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Katy398]

Thank you MMT,

look I’m doing heaps of non drug coping. Fish oil and magnesium exercise most days and yoga weekly. Unfortunately I don’t have a bath tub. I suffer daily from doom and dread and terrible fear. I constantly have a nervous knot in my stomach that periodically throughout the day tightens up so much that,  I end up just bursting into tears. Reinstating after 1 year out scares me. There are so many stories  on here of poly- drug  rescues after late reinstating. Everything seems to be frightening. 

Tale care MMT and thank you, you’re doing so well. Kx

[Goosie]

Hi @Katy398    Have you tried swimming when you feel the fear?   Water can be relaxing.   Just getting in a pool/ocean was helpful for me.   

[Katy398]

I haven’t because I get so cold but I could try at the local swimming pool. Thank you Goosie so kind to reach out. 🙏

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Katy398 said:

yoga weekly.

Katy398, I don't know if you've tried this restorative yoga pose, but it's helped me with anxiety.

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

I can believe it when they say going off AD's is harder than heroin.  I think Kelly Brogan, the anti-drug psychiatrist, says the same thing.

 

I hope you're doing okay today.

 

 

[Katy398]

No one would believe it’s harder than heroine unless they’d lived it. 

I can imagine. The time scale for this is crazy. Thanks for yoga suggestion I do it but not enough maybe I should trying it during my meltdown moments. Thank @Gridley for reaching out to help. 

Take care hope this year is better than last for you Kx

[Lloyd]

@Katy398 I did a reinstatement of 37.5mg of Effexor back in 2017 after about 1.5 years off it and i was fine within 6-8 hours like everything was good again. Problem was a few months later i was given Sifrol (Pramipexole) for restless legs syndrome. Everything went to hell after taking that drug and i tapered off the Effexor again because i was having panic attacks. Have been waiting to see if i can get through it & see some improvement. Still not sure if i'm going to end up back on the Effexor.

[Katy398]

oh Lloyd,

I so sorry you are on the

reinstate/ sit it out dilemma. You’ve been off 18 months now. Have you seen any improvements. It’s so hard it really is.  I’m plagued with panics, doom and dread. Most of my friends are going through empty next Syndrome as their kids are getting older. I have Empty Nest Terror. Every challenge for me is off the scale. I just want to curl up and hide from this frightening world. 

Take care Lloyd 

little by little

Kx

[Katy398]

I read so many exact  symptoms as my own by so many,

 

2 hours ago, Elyssa143 said:

my brain automatically goes to suicide of course i dont want to die. Did yours last this far out too? And did your brain automatically go straight to that? This feeling scares me. I already have the awful intrusive si and thoughts about life not being worth it. I also get scared that im this far out and still feel like this, i get scared it means i wont make it or something.  My biggest fear is getting worse or not being able to handle it and giving up.

 

I have to say in a a brief moment of a window, I find it fascinating that our brains are behaving in exactly the same dysfunctional manner. I panic about something I said or did 40 years ago when I was a teenager. Every error of judgement in my life it seems, is flooding back into my consciousness. How does this happen? What is going on in our brain? I want a neurologist to explain the mechanics of what’s happening in our brain. Why the negative memories why not the positive? How can the withdrawal distinguish between what we perceive as +ve or -ve? It’s so individual. 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you to all those wonderful folk out there supporting each other.

Take care Kx 

[wantrelief]

Hi @Katy398 and @Elyssa143:  I share the same symptoms you are both mentioning.  Unfortunately I am still on drugs (citalopram is no longer "working" and I also am on Klonoin - ugh).  Katy, I too have intrusive memories, often about people or past situations from long ago that I am embarrassed or ashamed about (your question is such a good one....I don't know why the brain chooses only negative memories).  Elyssa, I am suffering from very frequent SI.  It will just come up randomly as thoughts/images or if something goes wrong (like if I have a disagreement with my husband), my brain will automatically go to suicide.  I am getting a lot of headaches and that seems to trigger it as well.  I am so sorry you are both suffering from these symptoms but it does help to know that I am not alone in this daily battle within my head (I feel so stuck in my head).  Others have healed from these same symptoms so we will too in time....it is just so hard in the meantime!  Stay strong, WR.

[Katy398]

Thank you @wantrelief It really helps to know others have the same symptoms which means it’s withdrawal symptoms not dysfunctional me symptoms. SI is the hardest for my husband to understand 

37 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

very frequent SI.  It will just come up randomly as thoughts/images or if something goes wrong (like if I have a disagreement with my husband), my brain will automatically go to suicide.

It seems to be my default setting. 

Because it’s such a taboo subject it is good to find somewhere where we can be open about our symptoms no matter how terrible.The symptom of  SI is the reason I so desperately want the outside world to know about what is happening to everyone. Naive I know but why is this situation so slow to be acknowledged by the medical profession. 

Thanks for your reply @wantrelief,

take care  We All Heal Eventually

Kx

[Ballardbeer]

29 minutes ago, Katy398 said:

The symptom of  SI is the reason I so desperately want the outside world to know about what is happening to everyone. Naive I know but why is this situation so slow to be acknowledged by the medical profession. 

ive actually thought about this a lot. I only experimented with sertraline for 8 months and it has been 6 months of withdrawal with SI coming and going. A lot of it I have traced back to early trauma, but the unnatural amount of SI that occurred in the last 6 months ... inhuman is the only way to describe it. Writing out my own safety plan with my counselor helped. And avoiding any situation where it seems more frequent (driving, for me). 

[Katy398]

It’s so tragic @BallardbeerMy heart goes out to you. I wish there was more action out there to promote change. Glad you have a cousellor to help you. I just want the powers that be to listen. We need research we really do. Thanks for dropping by. It really helps me thinking there are people out there who care. 

Take care 

Remember We All Heal Eventually.

Kx

[Katy398]

Is there anyone out there who remembers what the the fear, doom and dread, terror and intrusive thoughts were like AND  has recovered completely from them. 

 

I have a concern that this is the new me and I have to now work out a drug free strategy to overcome this, rather than just waiting it out. 

 

Pre meds I experienced a touch of most of my symptoms.  Now all the ‘little’ things I went on the meds for initially have come back in extreme proportions. 

SI

anxiety

depression

Fear

 

 I need more reassurance that this is withdrawal and not the new ‘med free’ me that I have to learn how to repair.

 

Is there anyone else with the same questions?

 

Sorry if I keep asking the same old same, old but as we all know, part of this whole thing is the need for constant reassurance.

I ask my partner throughout each and every day.

Are we going to be ok?

Are you ok?

Are the boys Ok?

 

I need reassurance on tap!!

 

Please share your thoughts. 

Kx

 

[Ballardbeer]

Hey Katy, I recently experienced a close death, and it sort of clicked to me that my feelings and emotions are new, real, and amplified. In time you’ll be comfortable with it I bet. It’s gonna be okay

[manymoretodays]

Katy398,

It's gotten so much better for me.  Occasionally, I do slip into the depths again.......briefly.......and know now, that a thought is just that.......that it isn't always the truth.  It took me awhile to, to learn to live in this new paradigm, that I now live in.

 

I mean look at my signature Katy!  30 years and 30 meds!  I round up a bit, just for convenience.  And I never subscribe to having permanent brain damage, or any of that.  I am some kind of miracle, me thinks. 

 

It's a process.  It is.  I would never go back now though.  I have great faith.  And it's been a great journey, still is.  It's not that I'm strong or any of that either.  This is way healthier than "that" ever was.  For me.  I think it can be and will be for you too. 

 

And I have great faith that you will heal further as well!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Life is good for me these days, all told, in all honesty.

Edited January 22, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Katy398]

Thank you @Ballardbeer and @manymoretodays, It’s so tough.I don’t need to tell you this I just need to say it. 

@Ballardbeer Are you ok, near death sounds shocking. 

Thanks folks thank you

Kx

[Ballardbeer]

13 hours ago, Katy398 said:

Thank you @Ballardbeer and @manymoretodays, It’s so tough.I don’t need to tell you this I just need to say it. 

@Ballardbeer Are you ok, near death sounds shocking. 

Thanks folks thank you

Kx

I had a colleague and mentor pass in his sleep (heart attack). It was a shock, and I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to handle the emotional rollercoaster. Then I realized I’ve never been more well equipped to handle all those emotions. Your post resonated with me because I have largely felt like I am “too much” and the emotions too intense. Well, I felt MORE recently, and it’s okay. I’m doing the best I can, just like the rest of em, but with my 3rd eye wide open and aware of how much my CNS is activated. 

[Katy398]

Oh my word @Ballardbeer that is truly shocking. I’m so pleased to are managing your emotions ok. Yes we are doing our best in this terrifying existence. You should pat yourself on the back  for being able to acknowledge your progress. 

Take care @Ballardbeer hang in there we will heal eventually. 

Kx

[Katy398]

Sorry folks I need some more encouragement. I have crying spells everyday. I get so overwhelmed by the fear. My kids, my partner, my life I’m so scared of everything.then when the fear gets too much I cry and cry and cry. I hate that my teenage kids can hear.I try to muffle the sound with a pillow, but they know. 

Any support would be greatly appreciated. 

Take care Kx

[Ballardbeer]

1 hour ago, Katy398 said:

Sorry folks I need some more encouragement. I have crying spells everyday. I get so overwhelmed by the fear. My kids, my partner, my life I’m so scared of everything.then when the fear gets too much I cry and cry and cry. I hate that my teenage kids can hear.I try to muffle the sound with a pillow, but they know. 

Any support would be greatly appreciated. 

Take care Kx

My outside perspective that’s a good thing. Crying opens up your breath, releases energy, and renews your spirit. I was only on Meds for 10 months total, and the entire time I was so void of depression and anxiety. You’d think that’s a good thing, but you need those releases to keep yourself safe and balanced. 

[Katy398]

Thank you @Ballardbeer, I guess you’re right. Whole day in bed is not good.

How are you doing?Thanks for getting back to me, it means so much.

Take care Kx

 

[Happy2Heal]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:47 PM, Katy398 said:

Has  anyone else been prescribed twice the licensed dose of  one of, if not the, strongest antidepressants in the market?

 

 

yes I was given 40mgs of lexapro as well. Started at 20, went to 30, I tried to get off because I couldn't sleep and felt like I was on speed.

I had terrible symptoms when I stopped the 30mgs (not having any idea about withdrawal or tapering, as all of my previous meds were stopped CT and switched with others) the dr saw this as evidence that my previous dose was too low, so I was put on 40mgs 

 

Not sure how long I was on that dose but at  some point my insurance complained and refused to pay for it because it clearly states somewhere that more than 30 mgs is not going to make any difference (I can't recall exactly how it's worded)

I was also given stupidly high doses of anti psychotics (seroquel esp) and high doses of lithium!

 

 

so yes, It happens and yes it's criminal!!!!

 

but for now, unless being angry is giving you energy to face your WD recovery symptoms, it's probably best not to dwell on this, ok?

 

but it does happen, you're not alone in this. I am so very sorry that it happened to you.

 

I hope this finds you well.

 

it is a very good thing that your sleep seems to be improving!  

I was where you are just a few years ago, it does get better but damn it's slow going, eh?

 

you're doing great. you're doing a lot of self care, that's wonderful!

 

you're going to be ok

((((gentle hugs))))

[Katy398]

Thank you so much Happy2 Heal,

It was a real boost to read your reply.  To be honest when I originally asked if anyone had been given 40 mg lexapro I was less angry but very scared. Now two months on I’ve  accepted  it is what it is.Still my dr refuses to believe me. I do see a prescription drug ‘misuse’ ! Counsellor which is very helpful. The anxiety doom, dread  and terror plagues me most of the days. I hope I see some improvements this year but I’m scared because of the tapering/ CT advice I followed. 

Thanks again do you have a success story? Did you suffer from the doom and terror, depression SI etc?

 

Thanks again, so kind of you 

Kx

[Katy398]

Hi @Happy2Heal Thanks again for your support. I can’t find your introduction on here, could you point me in the right direction. I love your success story thank you for giving me some encouragement. 

I don’t think I’ll reinstate but my symptoms are pretty bad at the moment. Thanks again for your kind words Kx

[manymoretodays]

Here you go Katy398 ^

Just click the arrow at the upper right and this will take you right there.

(((((Katy398))))))

Edited January 27, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Happy2Heal]

38 minutes ago, Katy398 said:

Hi @Happy2Heal Thanks again for your support. I can’t find your introduction on here, could you point me in the right direction. I love your success story thank you for giving me some encouragement. 

I don’t think I’ll reinstate but my symptoms are pretty bad at the moment. Thanks again for your kind words Kx

hi @Katy398 I see that MMT has found the link for you, thanks MMT

 

how long have you been off the lexapro? oh wait, I see it, you've been off since Dec 2018?

 

I wouldn't know but I'd guess reinstating at this point would not be wise, but I don't know. was that something you'd considered? I don't think it's something I recommended, is it? I can be a bit scattered later in the day, I chalk that up to age

 

1 hour ago, Katy398 said:

Did you suffer from the doom and terror, depression SI etc?

yes I did, my thread is very long (both of them are long, the intro thread AND the success story) I tend to be a bit chatty I guess 

 

 

my worst year was from Oct 2016 to Oct 2017, I had that doom and gloom and terror, and  anxiety and early morning cortisol spikes and insomnia....  Yeh it's brutal!

Edited to add: however, all my symptoms improved gradually over time and for the most part, it was almost always in a positive direction.  symptoms morphed in time but were always milder. I don't know if that's true for everyone but it def was for me.

 

 

I wasn't sure it was ever going to end but it did, thankfully! 
Now it's just a bad memory that is always fading, as more time goes by.

 

I remember reading thru the success stories all the time, to remind myself that it was going to end, and that I was going to recover.

 

but I did

 

I'm glad I stuck it out, there were times when I wondered if it was all going to be worth it.

 

You're going to get there too! I know there are several success stories of ppl who CT'ed, and some partial success stories as well  Look for the sun symbol on the threads in the Introductions (this forum) Those are ppl who are getting better and close to full recovery.

they are very encouraging.

[Katy398]

Cool thanks Folks. I will read your journey as much as I can H2H. Lexapro is a challenge and I need all the support I can get.  Take care I really appreciate all your supporting work. We really need folk like you to help us through the terrible dark times. Thanks again H

kind Regards Kx

[Dragon]

Hi Katy, I thought I'd call in on your introduction topic to see how you're getting on. I've been thinking of you since we made a link in the "Doom and Dread" thread. (poetry ?). As you haven't posted since Monday, I hope that means you're feeling better. The dark times are definitely better when you have someone to hold your hand, so I'm holding yours from across the Globe. Now I'm pushing myself to go for the dreaded daily walk that I must do, or cabin fever will get me (as well as all the other horrors)😉

 

Take care. xx

 

[Katy398]

Dearest @Dragon Thank you so much for your kind words and for holding my hand. I’m gradually getting through each day. I have to be honest it’s really tough but I’m getting through each day and each day is a tick on the calendar getting me closer to recovery. Ticking life away is not a great way to live but it’s the only way to cope with withdrawal at the moment.  When I’m stronger I’ll work on trying to find joy but for the moment it’s just getting through each day. 

Thanks again I don’t know what I’d do without the support I have here. My GP. Just does not believe in withdrawal which is a challenge. I feel so grateful having support from folk who  really understand  these  bizarre symptoms.

 

How are you? I find the daily walk are essential for my recovery too. 

Take care Dragon

Thanks again Kx 

[Dragon]

Hi Katy,  Getting through each day, and being able to tick it off on your calendar is progress towards your final wellness. I agree it's not a good way to live, but it's not forever, and it sounds as if you have a positive attitude even though life is bad at the moment. That's important, and will help to keep you from spiralling downwards. My progress towards recovery is also painfully slow. I'm full of guilt and dread of the future and everything fills me with horror. When I think of how I used to bumble through life in the past, I'm amazed at how I was, but that was normal and this isn't.....   I'm lucky with my GP. as he tends to believe what I tell him. I've even referred him to this website, and he's looked at it.   If yours is too thick to listen, just tell him what he needs to hear and ignore his stupidity !   or if you don't need him for anything else, stay away from him.

One of the other things I have is anger or rather rage, teeth grindingly heavy rage. Making me scream and shout and rant at things that really don't warrant it. I realise this when I've cooled down. In real life anger helps when you have fear and dread. In withdrawal it doesn't.....

 

Be kind to yourself love. D x.

[Happy2Heal]

13 hours ago, Dragon said:

Getting through each day, and being able to tick it off on your calendar is progress towards your final wellness. I agree it's not a good way to live, but it's not forever, and it sounds as if you have a positive attitude even though life is bad at the moment. 

very wise words @Dragon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Katy398]

Hi Folks. Thank you, I so appreciate  your support at the moment. . Sadly I’m now in full blown wave again, I thought I was turning a corner but no. A few triggers have sent me plummeting. I’m back to fear, loneliness with doom and dread. Feel stupid asking but I just need some encouragement and kind words. 1 year 1 month off all meds. 

Kx

[Happy2Heal]

10 minutes ago, Katy398 said:

Hi Folks. Thank you, I so appreciate  your support at the moment. . Sadly I’m now in full blown wave again, I thought I was turning a corner but no. A few triggers have sent me plummeting. I’m back to fear, loneliness with doom and dread. Feel stupid asking but I just need some encouragement and kind words. 1 year 1 month off all meds. 

Kx

 

 

hi Katy,

please don't feel stupid, we've been where you are and it sucks

 

ask for all the reassurance and encouragement you need, that's what we are here for

 

it is so very hard to believe that things will get better when you're in a wave, but you WILL get better.

you may very well be turning a corner, a lot of us found that after a wave we ended up a higher level of functioning and/or with fewer or less severe symptoms.

I would often have a symptom disappear after a wave, and only then would I realize that I'd been living with that symptom all along but had gotten, well, used to it.

 

Like when this tight feeling left my shoulders and neck- I hadn't even realized that it was there.

 

 remember that the fear and dread is just the product of your brain trying to get back to it's pre drugged state

 

there's not really anything to be afraid of, even though it feels so strongly that there must be

Your imagination will try to justify your feeling but the feeling is a neuro emotion, not a real one,

so ignore any scenarios your imagination comes up with

They are NOT based in reality.

 

you are safe, you ARE healing and you are going to be ok ❤️

 

 

hang in there, hon, better days are on their way

 

 

 

[Katy398]

Thank you so so much  @Happy2Heal

I really appreciate your quick response I just need constant reassurance when I’m like this. It seems pathetic but it’s all I want to hear,  just constant,  constant reassurance, Is that what others experience? 

I so appreciate your support.

Kx🧡

[Rozon1]

Katy, do you have any physical symptoms that linger? If you had them, have they gotten better since you quit the drug? Is it mostly just anxiety that is bringing you down?