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wisconsin: protracted WD lasting 4 years now

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wisconsin
Posted (edited)

 Wisconsin

 

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.  I am a mom who has been trying to help my son  recover from taking Effexor. He took it only for 3 months,  four years ago (18 years old). He is still not recovered so I guess this is protracted WD. When he took the drug he became a zombie and his handwriting was chicken scratches and he no longer could talk. The doctor said he would improve when he reached therapeutic levels ( why did we listen to such a dope).  I was so happy when we stopped the drug.  I didn't realize it would get worse.  

 

He got his penmanship back although the style changed and he can talk more, but he can't engage in intelligent conversation. His cognitive function is very poor. Can't seem to learn new concepts and his writing is probably a third grade level. He developed tics that came and went .  He couldn't make eye contact but that has improved a little.  One that has still remained is a laughing tic that we only hear once in a while at night when he is falling asleep  Did anyone ever hear of that?  He has made a lot of progress in the last two years but he still is not better.  He has an excellent diet now - no sugar, no white flour, organic vegetables , and grass fed meats. Just started yoga, tries meditation, , runs or walks, listens to classical music 432 Hz, does a lot of detoxification programs like saunas, liver flushes, dry brushing and supplements.  I am devastated and want my old boy back.

 

We never new much about the mental health industry before all this. I welcome any thoughts.

 

Please tell me he will get better. He was very bright, musical and athletic. He never did drugs or drank - just a good kid.

 

Thank you,

Wisconsin

 

Effexor started              11/12 /14     1/4 tablet

                                           1/02/15 .      87.5mg

           started taper         1/03/15      reduced 1/4  every week

           finished taper          2/03/15

              

Edited by ChessieCat
one date was wrong

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Gridley
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, wisconsin said:

does a lot of detoxification programs like saunas, liver flushes, dry brushing and supplements.  

 

 

We don't recommend detox programs for withdrawal.  Detox is very hard on the system at a time when the system should be treated very gently.  The drug itself is long since out of his system, but what remains are the changes to the architecture of the brain that antidepressants cause.  This link explains it well:

 

 
To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.
 
 

It sounds as if your son had an adverse reaction to Effexor.  

 

But I only took it for a Week

 

The effects of an adverse reaction are very similar to withdrawal symptoms from a too fast taper.

 
 
 
When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  
 
 
He will recover but unfortunately it is impossible to predict the amount of time it will take.
 
 
Be careful of supplements.  We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 
Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

 

 
I am sorry you and your son are going through this horrible experience.  This is your Introduction topic, the place for you to ask questions and post updates.

 

 

 

Edited by Gridley

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wisconsin

Thank you , I appreciate all your information.

 

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puthappinessfirst

Hi, Wisconsin! I am so glad you were able to research this topic and take care of your son as best as possible. I am so sorry to hear what has happened, I can't imagine. That sounds absolutely terrifying. He will get better, his improvements are proof, but I understand how scary and frustrating the length of the process is. I hope he continues to improve. 

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wisconsin

Thank you so much puthappinesfirst. I appreciate your kind words. It has been such a long road. I am praying for a miracle.

The best thing I did was to keep him away from doctors.

I was wondering if anyone out there knows if it looked like we got him off the drug too quickly?

 

 

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getofflex

Wisconsin I will pray for your son for a miracle, too. I'll also pray for you.  How heartbreaking to see the drugs do this to your child.  Please do keep us posted. 

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wisconsin

I will, thank you

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wisconsin

Can I ask a moderator a question.

Do you think tapering off Effexor 87.5 mg in one month was too fast?

Thank you.

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wisconsin
Posted (edited)

I am very new to this site and I am not even sure I have posted correctly. I left a message somewhere asking if tapering from 87.5 mg  of Effexor in one month was too fast, but no one answered. Can  you or any other moderator answer this question?  I have been helping my son who has very poor cognitive and executive function since starting and coming off of the drug and it has been 4 years now. Can someone please help me with this. I am devastated.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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Shep
On 3/12/2019 at 9:02 PM, wisconsin said:

Can I ask a moderator a question.

Do you think tapering off Effexor 87.5 mg in one month was too fast?

Thank you.

 

Yes, tapering off 87.5 MG in one month is way too fast. We recommend only going 10% per month, at the most. This thread explains why:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

From what you've posted, it sounds like your son suffered an adverse reaction to the drug, as well as coming off quickly.  Gridley posted some links in his post above that provide some great information on how long this can take.

 

On 3/12/2019 at 1:45 PM, wisconsin said:

He has made a lot of progress in the last two years but he still is not better.  He has an excellent diet now - no sugar, no white flour, organic vegetables , and grass fed meats. Just started yoga, tries meditation, , runs or walks, listens to classical music 432 Hz, does a lot of detoxification programs like saunas, liver flushes, dry brushing and supplements.

 

All of these non-drug coping skills sound really great.

 

What supplements is he taking? Please post a list, as some supplements can make withdrawal and recovery much worse, as some effect serotonin and other neurotransmitters that psychiatry drugs affect. Since he was sensitive to Effexor, he may be sensitive to these types of supplements. 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

  • Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

 

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wisconsin

Shep, Thank you so much. I have a list of all the supplements my son is on. It is a long list. He started it in May 2018. The doctor's approach to all this is, "we live in a toxic world now and some people are more sensitive than others, he got injured near the TMJ (baseball hit him) and reacted so badly to the medication (effexor). All 3 different issues contributed to a greater or lesser degree". She believes taking the nutrients will help him detoxify the body and provide the raw materials to help the body heal itself.  

I read people re instate their drugs but I would be very frightened to do that being he had an adverse reaction to it and also that he has been off it 4 years now.

I also want to say he was doing Neuro Bio feedback with Dr Mary Lee Esty in Bethesda MD last summer. He seemed to have improved a lot but then two days after his last session ( and he was going for a few months) , he regressed and the progress we made slipped back 6 months. Was that what people are calling a wave? I don't think it was the NBF - that was going so well, but who knows.

 

During Breakfast and dinner (twice a day):

1 Advanced Bio-curcumin wih ginger & turmerones

1 Alpha Lipoic acid with biotin

1 calsym

1 chlorophyll compex perles

1 evening primrose oil  just started taking a month ago

1 Hypothalamus

1 lithium (orate) 5mg

1 krill oil 500mg

1 Adrenal with breakfast only

 

During each meal (3times a day):

1 balanced digest-aid

2 balanced vegetarian multi min

1 balanced vegetarian multi vit

4 Brain

1cataplex f perles

1 Digestive enzyme

2 free aminos

1 liver

1magnesium carbonte 75 mg

1 n-acetl cysteine 

2 Pancreas

1 pure vit C

 

During lunch only ( once each day) :

1 Beta carotene

1 calcium carbonate copper gluconate

1 iodomere

1vitamin A 10,000

1vit D3 1000 IU

1 vit E 100 IU

 

At Bedtime take

5 RNA/DNA

 

I want to add that while he was on the effexor I spoke to this doctor in California who was prescribing vitamins . I don't remember the names of the vitamins but one was tryptophan. I was really nervous about that. I didn't feel comfortable with her , so I left. Her name was Dr Priscilla Slagle  , her web site is called This way up.  I don't think he took those vitamins very long ,but I can't remember for sure. 

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wisconsin

Also, I don't know what you mean by "create a signature"

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ChessieCat

The signature is your drug history which will show up below each post you make.  This allows mods and members to see your drug history at a glance and not have to read through your topic to get the information.

 

If you are accessing the site from a phone, then you may not be able to see the signatures.  However, I believe that it is possible to create them using a phone.

 

Please create your drug signature using the following format.   Keep it simple.  NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

  • details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
  • summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

 

Click on this link which will take you to the place where you enter the information.  Remember to click Save, which is below the text box.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

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wisconsin

 

 

 

Shep, Thank you so much. I have a list of all the supplements my son is on. It is a long list. He started it in May 2018. The doctor's approach to all this is, "we live in a toxic world now and some people are more sensitive than others, he got injured near the TMJ (baseball hit him) and reacted so badly to the medication (effexor). All 3 different issues contributed to a greater or lesser degree". She believes taking the nutrients will help him detoxify the body and provide the raw materials to help the body heal itself.  

I read people re instate their drugs but I would be very frightened to do that being he had an adverse reaction to it and also that he has been off it 4 years now.

I also want to say he was doing Neuro Bio feedback with Dr Mary Lee Esty in Bethesda MD last summer. He seemed to have improved a lot but then two days after his last session ( and he was going for a few months) , he regressed and the progress we made slipped back 6 months. Was that what people are calling a wave? I don't think it was the NBF - that was going so well, but who knows.

 

During Breakfast and dinner (twice a day):

1 Advanced Bio-curcumin wih ginger & turmerones

1 Alpha Lipoic acid with biotin

1 calsym

1 chlorophyll compex perles

1 evening primrose oil  just started taking a month ago

1 Hypothalamus

1 lithium (orate) 5mg

1 krill oil 500mg

1 Adrenal with breakfast only

 

During each meal (3times a day):

1 balanced digest-aid

2 balanced vegetarian multi min

1 balanced vegetarian multi vit

4 Brain

1cataplex f perles

1 Digestive enzyme

2 free aminos

1 liver

1magnesium carbonte 75 mg

1 n-acetl cysteine 

2 Pancreas

1 pure vit C

 

During lunch only ( once each day) :

1 Beta carotene

1 calcium carbonate copper gluconate

1 iodomere

1vitamin A 10,000

1vit D3 1000 IU

1 vit E 100 IU

 

At Bedtime take

5 RNA/DNA

 

I want to add that while he was on the effexor I spoke to this doctor in California who was prescribing vitamins . I don't remember the names of the vitamins but one was tryptophan. I was really nervous about that. I didn't feel comfortable with her , so I left. Her name was Dr Priscilla Slagle  , her web site is called This way up.  I don't think he took those vitamins very long ,but I can't remember for sure. 

 

 

Signature ????

I will type again the drug and dosages here because i don't know how to transfer the info i just put on the signature page.

 

Effexor started Nov. 12,2014   dosage 1/4 tab

                            Jan. 2, 2015 . dosage 87.5mg

                            Jan. 3, 2015 .  started taper

                            Feb. 3, 2015      finished taper

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DrugfreeProf

Wisconsin, I'm dreadfully sorry to hear what you are going through with your precious son. I just finished supporting my daughter, Lex1992, through a 2 and a half year long horrific withdrawal journey. She is now fully recovered and in fact, is even continuing to become more of her true self, which she seemed to have TOTALLY lost during much of the withdrawal period. You can read her entire thread under Lex1992, most of which I wrote, as she was way too debilitated to participate on this board. At the moment, she is back to painting her beautiful art pieces and becoming as physically fit as she was pre-withdrawal. If you read her thread you will see that she was in terrible shape not that long ago. I had times when I worried she would never be normal again.  Recovery happened very, very slowly for a long time--then quite quickly. Your son will recover, I promise you, as a few mods already have. Keep him safe, warm, comfortable, and watch out for too many supplements, because his brain may be VERY sensitive, especially since he had such a bad reaction to short term use of Effexor (one of the more terrible ones out there, from what I've gathered, but they are all terrible for so many people).  Keep the faith. Great job loving and caring for your son unconditionally. I know full well how hard it is.  

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wisconsin

DrugfreeProf,

Oh my goodness! Thank you so much for responding.  I had read your posts prior to introducing myself and wished I could talk to you.  You gave me so much inspiration. I am really scared because it is going on so long. It is 4 years since his last dose. Everyone I read about talks about withdrawal being about 2 years. How is this possible? I don't even know how we fell into this trap.   It has been a very long nightmare. About 3 months ago he actually seemed to be getting better and I was so excited. But then something must have triggered and then he regressed to where he was 8 months before.

 His life seems to be passing him by. I am going to go back and read all your post.  Did your daughter do Neuro bio feedback?  When I started the vitamin regimen above and the NBF  I saw positive changes , but two days after one of his sessions things changed for the worse.  We were at my other child's  college parent's weekend  with him and maybe something triggered there - who knows.

He can't seem to express himself so it is hard for me to know what works and doesn't work.  He doesn't do any psychotic stuff, he is definitely out of the acute withdrawal stage. He just has a poor affect around people and has poor cognitive function and executive function. 

 

I thought the vitamins he takes are pretty innocuous but I will talk to the doctor about that. 

 

I go to a support group, but it is filled with mothers discussing what drugs their child is on or what treatment centers they are sending them to. It breaks my heart to listen to this, but they don't want to hear anything else.

It is nice to talk to people with like minds.

Do you periodically check the site?  I would love to keep in touch.

 

Thank you so much 

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Shep
15 hours ago, wisconsin said:

Shep, Thank you so much. I have a list of all the supplements my son is on. It is a long list. He started it in May 2018.

 

How was your son doing between February  2015 when he came off Effexor and May 2018 when he started all of these supplements? 

 

Some of the supplements listed can cause problems for people going through withdrawal. Some people find B and D vitamins to be stimulating.  I'm not familiar with a lot of what you have listed, but please research them here on SA (using the Search box or googling "surviving antidepressants" + [name of supplement]. 

 

Please see:

 

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

 

Supplements - what helps, what doesn't?

 

If you wish to simplify your son's vitamins, please note that they should be tapered at a rate of 25% (or less) per month and some supplements, such as lithium, may need to be tapered even slower. 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

Magnesium and fish oil are the only two supplements we recommend for people going through withdrawal. 

 

5 hours ago, wisconsin said:

About 3 months ago he actually seemed to be getting better and I was so excited. But then something must have triggered and then he regressed to where he was 8 months before.

 

Where there any supplement changes at this time? Were you doing Neuro Bio feedback at this time? 

 

16 hours ago, wisconsin said:

I also want to say he was doing Neuro Bio feedback with Dr Mary Lee Esty in Bethesda MD last summer. He seemed to have improved a lot but then two days after his last session ( and he was going for a few months) , he regressed and the progress we made slipped back 6 months. Was that what people are calling a wave? I don't think it was the NBF - that was going so well, but who knows.

 

Here are members' experience which may be helpful: 

 

Neurofeedback

 

At this stage in the game, you are right that it is too late to reinstate, especially considering the fact that your son's experience involved an adverse reaction. We don't recommend reinstating after an adverse reaction. It's a matter of time to allow for healing. 

 

Usually, the less we interfere with this process (and that includes experimenting with supplements and alternative treatments), the more the brain / body is allowed to heal itself. And it can be a very lengthly process, as this thread explores:

 

Are we there yet? How long is withdrawal going to take?

 

 

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wisconsin

Shep, Thank you so much for your email.  While on the drug it was very scary. After coming off he was very quiet for 3 or 4 months and then had every symptom that everyone talks about. The biggest problem that remains is his cognitive and executive functions and flat affect (which seems a little better). He also picks his fingers and can't engage in conversation. 

I do think he was showing improvement when he started the supplements in March 2018 ( not May, I made a mistake). The only problem was in October 21,2018 he seemed to have  regressed a bit. It was two days  after  a neuro bio feedback sessions and while visiting his sister in college. I don't know if something stressed him out there, but he started acting weird in the library. Could he have been in a window?

The first two years he stayed home and didn't do much. We were scared and didn't get very good advice.  The last two  years we have been more proactive with exercise, NBF, supplements, meditation, diet and just started saunas and yoga. 

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wisconsin

I think I read somewhere  here that people with more life experiences tend to get through ADWD easier.  I can see that. My son was a very young 18 year old. He was a good student, very kind, never drank or did drugs.   I think that is why it has been so difficult for him. He identifies with doing well in school and now he can't go to school.

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Shep
13 hours ago, wisconsin said:

I do think he was showing improvement when he started the supplements in March 2018 ( not May, I made a mistake). The only problem was in October 21,2018 he seemed to have  regressed a bit. It was two days  after  a neuro bio feedback sessions and while visiting his sister in college. I don't know if something stressed him out there, but he started acting weird in the library. Could he have been in a window?

The first two years he stayed home and didn't do much. We were scared and didn't get very good advice.  The last two  years we have been more proactive with exercise, NBF, supplements, meditation, diet and just started saunas and yoga. 

 

Yes, it's possible he had been in a window.

 

However, I would caution against doing too much too soon. It's possible he's reacting to some of those supplements and may benefit from getting as many nutrients as possible from diet as opposed to supplements. 

 

This post by Alto may be helpful (from the thread One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome😞

 

On 5/24/2011 at 10:59 PM, Altostrata said:

The first phase of withdrawal, the acute phase, is the initial shock of withdrawal, with the most defined symptoms, such as brain zaps and nausea and possibly waves of unusually intense "depression" and "anxiety" -- actually, emotions generated by the neurological upset. Later, glutamatergic hyper-reactivity and autonomic instability take over. Often the autonomic instability causes wide hypersensitivity to drugs, supplements, and even foods.

Out of control, unrelated to environmental or psychological triggers, the alerting system sends intense, spontaneous signals to the adrenals, which produce the stress hormones cortisol and adrenaline.

This is not strictly brain damage. Brain damage means some physical part has been permanently removed and can never be recovered. Rather, this is iatrogenic neuropsychiatric damage.

According to established principles of neuroplasticity, the nervous system can repair itself and regain functioning that is close to normal. In cases where there is no apparent iatrogenic cause for autonomic dysfunction, it often spontaneously resolves. Low stress, good nutrition, and as much sleep and gentle exercise as possible are key.

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wisconsin

Thank you Shep,  do you think 4 years out is still too soon?

 

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Shep
13 hours ago, wisconsin said:

I think I read somewhere  here that people with more life experiences tend to get through ADWD easier.  I can see that. My son was a very young 18 year old. He was a good student, very kind, never drank or did drugs.   I think that is why it has been so difficult for him. He identifies with doing well in school and now he can't go to school.

 

Many adults well into their 40s and 50s are in colleges these days, especially with online education. He will do well in school again. It's not too late. 

 

Please reinforce that their are many paths in life and many of people don't go the regular path of traditional education and yet do very well in life. I didn't get my BA until I was 32 and then went back for more education in computers in my 40s. As technology changes, it's good to be adaptable and open to going back to school. 

 

What your son is learning now is that pharmaceutical drugs are VERY dangerous. This is an eduction that we all need.

 

In that respect, he is years ahead of his peers. Fact is, 50% of university students in the US are on psychiatric drugs. They may not start showing problems until they are in their 30s or 40s and at that point, they may lose everything they've worked so hard for. Your son is indeed getting an education that will serve him well. 

 

2 minutes ago, wisconsin said:

Thank you Shep,  do you think 4 years out is still too soon?

 

 

Too soon for what? 

 

Is your son able to post himself? It would help him develop agency and self-sufficiency if he could participate in his own recovery. 

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wisconsin

You said, you would caution doing too much too soon.  That is why I asked, is four years off of effexor too soon to take supplements and all the other stuff he started?

It sounds like it is.

 

I think it would be wise for him to get on this site. I am not sure if he is going to be able to post but we will give it a try.

I am going to read the threads you sent above.

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Shep
19 minutes ago, wisconsin said:

You said, you would caution doing too much too soon.  That is why I asked, is four years off of effexor too soon to take supplements and all the other stuff he started?

It sounds like it is.

 

I would not think in terms of time, but in terms of stability. He'll want to do things very gradually. Such as, start off with 15 - 30 minute walks in the sun for exercise. Or gentle yoga. If he does well with that, add in 5 minutes of cardio. Increase as he's able. But allow for rest during waves. 

 

Add in one supplement at a time and give it time to see if it helps. If not, reduce and remove it and try something else. Or try nothing at all, but simply allow time to heal. 

 

These are the kinds of things we advocate. We really can't give you a time line. Your son's symptoms will be his best teachers and guides. 

 

At his point, he may be dependent on some of the supplements, so please research all of them. If they affect GABA, serontonin, or dopamine, they may be problematic. But please don't make a lot of sudden changes. For supplements, we recommend reducing at a rate of 25% per month or much slower if he is sensitive to any changes. 

 

21 minutes ago, wisconsin said:

I think it would be wise for him to get on this site. I am not sure if he is going to be able to post but we will give it a try.

I am going to read the threads you sent above.

 

Yes, it would be great if he could create his own account and let us know what's going on. It may also help him feel less isolated. We have a number of young men going through this, so he may want to read over some of the Intros and learn what they are doing to heal from this. A lot of people on the forum are dealing with cog fog, but are still able to focus and post very well on the site. 

 

He also may enjoy reading the Success Stories.

 

Success Stories

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wisconsin

Okay, thats what we will do and meanwhile I will talk to his doctor about his supplements.

Thank you for all your help.

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Cnick91

Hey Wisconsin,

 

Just wanted to drop in to say I can somewhat relate to what your son is going through. I started anti-depressants around the age of 19 but was stuck in their clutches for the better part of 7 years.  Now at 27, I have been Effexor free for over a year. My mental faculties suffered over the years (screwed up college transcripts bad), penmanship suffered (never was great), eye contact seems to be more of a mental task than before (doesn’t occur naturally like it once did), and so on. I could list all my issues but that’s not the objective here. Your son is on the right path to recovery. Meditation, long distance running, weight lifting, volunteering, practicing penmanship, taking one college coarse at a time, cold water therapy, supplements, being out in nature, etc. are all great approaches on this road to recovery. As you know by now the healing process is an uphill battle that must to be approached from many angles. One thing that has helped me make progress is enforcing the idea of putting my heart into everything I do. I’m in competition with myself. If I run, I run like I’m training for a marathon. If I take a college coarse, only an A grade will suffice and so on. And I don’t always meet my goals, but that’s okay. We all fail, but what’s important is we don’t ever give up. Don’t lose hope, your son is going to make it out of this mess. This journey is building him up for greatness. As long as his support team is strong and he continues doing what he’s been doing, I believe he will do great in life. 

 

Edit: I wanted to clarify that I don’t aim to be a perfectionist as that can lead to be very unhealthy. What I have been learning though is that you have to have a growth mindset once you fall into the trenches as a result of the meds. I’m not a congnitive physiologist or brain scientist so I can’t give you an accurate scientific explanation as to why our cognition is impaired after dosing of these meds but for one reason or another these drugs seem to wipe out some essential neural pathways. So to rebuild those pathways we need to do things such as what I listed in the first paragraph. It’s not an easy feat by any means. Everything is 10x harder for us than the average human. By far this is the hardest thing we will endure in our life time, but once that growth mindset is locked in, great achievement will come. I still don’t have everything figured out, in fact I am far from “healed”, but it all starts with believing. 

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wisconsin

Cnick91, Thank you so much for your post. I am so sad when I read what everyone has gone through to get off these horrible drugs.  I am so sorry to hear you were on them for 7 years. However, you sound pretty good to me being only a year off Effexor. I am so scared for my son. He was a mess a year off Effexor. I pray for a miracle. The whole experience is so surreal. It is a nightmare that we can't wake up from.   I am not going to stop until he is better. I hope I am doing everything right. Thank you so much for your kind words.

Can I ask you a few questions? What kinds of supplements have you been taking?   I have been learning on this site that you shouldn't take too many, but I think the supplements were helping him. Although, the last 3 months he has regressed a bit, so that is  very confusing. When you run do you run slowly? Because I was reading on this site that too much strenuous exercise is no good either. My son was an athlete , but I don't know if I should push him to do more.

How often did  you practice penmanship? I heard it is suppose to help your brain heal. He does the palmer technique. 

He can't talk about his situation like you can. I hope that will change. Did you ever do neuro bio feedback?  Do you ever use a sauna? 

 

Thanks for your encouragement I will tell my son what you said.

 

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Altostrata

Hello, wisconsin.

 

Some people have immediate bad reactions to antidepressants, the drugs simply do not suit them. It sounds like this is what happened to your son. See Immediate adverse reactions to SSRIs? How long for recovery?

 

How does your son describe how he feels? How's his sleep? It would be helpful if he joined in here.

 

I am very dubious about detoxification programs for adverse drug reactions. What we want is to do is nurture the nervous system so it goes back to normal. It's not toxins that interfere with this, it's additional stress and strain.

 

As Shep pointed out, some supplements can be harmful. There's no reason, for example, to stimulate the adrenals in someone who's already experiencing waves of anxiety. If all of these supplements were introduced at once, you can't tell which are helping and which are hurting.

 

In addition, you may be wasting your money on an elaborate but useless supplement program.

 

Regular gentle exercise and physical activity is probably much more helpful to your son than anything he can take in a pill.

 

Please respond to my notes below:

 

During Breakfast and dinner (twice a day):

1 Advanced Bio-curcumin wih ginger & turmerones

1 Alpha Lipoic acid with biotin

1 calsym Please send link to ingredients.

1 chlorophyll compex perles

1 evening primrose oil  just started taking a month ago

1 Hypothalamus Please send link to ingredients.

1 lithium (orate) 5mg What is effect of this and why take it at breakfast and dinner?

1 krill oil 500mg

1 Adrenal with breakfast only Probably not a good idea. Please send link to ingredients.

 

During each meal (3times a day):

1 balanced digest-aid

2 balanced vegetarian multi min With a balanced diet with lots of fresh veggies, multivitamins are unnecessary.

1 balanced vegetarian multi vit With a balanced diet with lots of fresh veggies, multivitamins are unnecessary.

4 Brain Please send link to ingredients.

1cataplex f perles Please send link to ingredients.

1 Digestive enzyme

2 free aminos For what reason? In what form?

1 liver Please send link to ingredients.

1magnesium carbonte 75 mg Magnesium carbonate is not absorbable.

1 n-acetl cysteine Possible stomach upset.

2 Pancreas Why is he taking this? Probably not a good idea. Please send link to ingredients.

1 pure vit C Please send link to ingredients.

 

During lunch only ( once each day) :

1 Beta carotene Mixed carotenoids are better.

1 calcium carbonate copper gluconate What is this for?

1 iodomere Please send link to ingredients.

1vitamin A 10,000 Unnecessary with beta carotene.

1vit D3 1000 IU Vit D3 can be stimulating.

1 vit E 100 IU

 

At Bedtime take

5 RNA/DNA Please send link to ingredients.

 

We basically recommend fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Once your son minimizes the other supplements, he might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects him. (Krill oil is the same as fish oil; we suggest mag citrate or glycinate.)

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Cnick91

Wisconsin, indeed the suffering people go through is very real and a very terrifying period. As far as supplements, I take powdereded magnesium citrate (just mix with water) and liquid fish oil by Nordic Naturals. The fish oil is a bit pricey but I prefer it because it contains higher levels of dha and epa than anything I have found in capsule form. Sometimes I will take Acetyl-L-Carnitine and N-Aceytlecystein. I also take ashwaganda in the mornings (helps calm my nerves). Magnesium and fish oil are the go to supplements as Altostrata mentioned. The supplements do help but they are far from life changing. 

 

When I run, I usually pace myself so I’m able to run as long as possible. The idea is to set a distance goal, achieve it, then set a new distance goal. If I’m able to run 5 miles without stopping, I might set a goal to hit 6 miles 2 or 3 weeks later. The goals don’t have to be achieved overnight. What’s important is that you’re seeing progress, progress=growth. It is true that over exerting can make you worse off. That’s why it’s important to take small steps with physical excercise. 

 

As for handwriting, I just looked up some fonts I found interesting and tried to emulate them. I don’t think I’ve spent nearly enough time on penmanship I just kind of did the bare minimum to be acceptable with my college coarse work. I do plan on working on that some more though. I might just start a routine of 30 minutes a day practing beautiful flowing letters 😊. I will look into Palmer method.

 

You asked about neuro-feedback and to be honest I haven’t done much research on it. What I have been practicing is the Wim Hof method. It sounds a little crazy but it’s backed by science. The idea here is breath work and cold water therapy. It sounds a little odd but when western medicine failed I had to look into alternative methods. I start everyday with the breathwork and ice cold showers. I highly recommend you look into this as it may be something you want to incorporate into his healing. Youtube has many videos and interviews with Wim himself talking about it. Incorporating Wim Hof, meditation, excercise, and yoga are the modalities that have worked best for me. Get creative with it! I don’t use saunas, nothing against them but I haven’t used them as part of my healing package.

 

Does your son have buddies he regularly goes out with to do what 20 somethings do? Concerts, music festivals, comedy club, sporting events, hiking, camping, backpacking, fishing, etc? The reason I ask is because during my time on antidepressants as well as during withdrawal I let all that stuff slip by me. I pretty much resorted to isolation. It’s my belief that doing things with people like what listed help build new neural networks in the brain, life experience. I think any new experience builds new pathways. This is one of the biggest hurdles for me. I’m certainly no couch potato I live a very active lifestyle, but I don’t have many friends and I’m really not sure how to meet new interesting people. Most of what I do in my life is by myself without much social interaction. I don’t care for a lot of  the people I used to associate with so I eliminated them from my life.

 

Anyways, if you have any more questions feel free to ask and I will periodically check up on you and your son to see how things are going.

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wisconsin
On 3/15/2019 at 10:56 AM, wisconsin said:

 

24

Cnick91,thank you for your post.  You sound like you are doing really well in such a short time since being off the drug. You are very driven which I think is key.

 We know of the Wim Hof technique and have tried it.  But I didn't think he was breathing right so we stopped. Maybe we should look at it again.  I wish my son could be more in charge of his healing. Sometimes reading these post makes me very nervous.  I like what you said about growth mindset. That has always been the way I think. I showed my son some videos on it.  He thinks he has a growth mindset, but I am not sure if he is a fighter. He does everything I tell him to do such as yoga ( which I don't think he cares for), meditation, running etc., but he doesn't think to do them himself.   Last night we were playing a card game called Set (it is a good brain game) but he was getting a little frustrated because he was very slow at it and wanted to give up. That doesn't sound like a growth mindset.

 

I also looked up your intro and saw that you asked about detoxification stuff but no one responded. I don't think the moderators think it is a good idea but my son has been doing a lot of it.  You should look up Dr. Kelly Brogan .  She is a NYC psychiatrist who specializes in getting women off these medications and one of her components is detoxification.The testimonials all swear by it on her website. Also you should look up Dr Nick Gonzalez (final interview on nutrition) - all good stuff to learn.

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Winterflower

I’m so sorry about your son, he’s around my age so this topic has really got me reflecting.. with all these testimonials and credible experiences (including my own) how has the psychiatric industry not been sued, litigated or found to be culpable for extreme, egregious harm or negligence to the public’s health yet? Especially your situation Wisconsin would definitely be grounds for compensation 😔 

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wisconsin

Hi Winterflower, thank you for your concern. It is terrible isn't it. It's so important to take charge of your health and never give your power away. Have you ever read Confessions of an Rx Pusher?  In there the author explains that they do get sued and they keep a certain amount of money aside for these settlements. It is a real racket.

However I am not interested in going that route. All my energy is directed towards healing my son and I know he is going to heal. I won't stop until he does.

How are you doing? You sound pretty good. I hate to see the youth falling down this rabbit hole.

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bubble
On 3/18/2019 at 1:41 AM, Altostrata said:

Hello, wisconsin.

 

Some people have immediate bad reactions to antidepressants, the drugs simply do not suit them. It sounds like this is what happened to your son. See Immediate adverse reactions to SSRIs? How long for recovery?

 

How does your son describe how he feels? How's his sleep? It would be helpful if he joined in here.

 

I am very dubious about detoxification programs for adverse drug reactions. What we want is to do is nurture the nervous system so it goes back to normal. It's not toxins that interfere with this, it's additional stress and strain.

 

As Shep pointed out, some supplements can be harmful. There's no reason, for example, to stimulate the adrenals in someone who's already experiencing waves of anxiety. If all of these supplements were introduced at once, you can't tell which are helping and which are hurting.

 

In addition, you may be wasting your money on an elaborate but useless supplement program.

 

Regular gentle exercise and physical activity is probably much more helpful to your son than anything he can take in a pill.

 

Please respond to my notes below:

 

During Breakfast and dinner (twice a day):

1 Advanced Bio-curcumin wih ginger & turmerones

1 Alpha Lipoic acid with biotin

1 calsym Please send link to ingredients.

1 chlorophyll compex perles

1 evening primrose oil  just started taking a month ago

1 Hypothalamus Please send link to ingredients.

1 lithium (orate) 5mg What is effect of this and why take it at breakfast and dinner?

1 krill oil 500mg

1 Adrenal with breakfast only Probably not a good idea. Please send link to ingredients.

 

During each meal (3times a day):

1 balanced digest-aid

2 balanced vegetarian multi min With a balanced diet with lots of fresh veggies, multivitamins are unnecessary.

1 balanced vegetarian multi vit With a balanced diet with lots of fresh veggies, multivitamins are unnecessary.

4 Brain Please send link to ingredients.

1cataplex f perles Please send link to ingredients.

1 Digestive enzyme

2 free aminos For what reason? In what form?

1 liver Please send link to ingredients.

1magnesium carbonte 75 mg Magnesium carbonate is not absorbable.

1 n-acetl cysteine Possible stomach upset.

2 Pancreas Why is he taking this? Probably not a good idea. Please send link to ingredients.

1 pure vit C Please send link to ingredients.

 

During lunch only ( once each day) :

1 Beta carotene Mixed carotenoids are better.

1 calcium carbonate copper gluconate What is this for?

1 iodomere Please send link to ingredients.

1vitamin A 10,000 Unnecessary with beta carotene.

1vit D3 1000 IU Vit D3 can be stimulating.

1 vit E 100 IU

 

At Bedtime take

5 RNA/DNA Please send link to ingredients.

 

We basically recommend fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Once your son minimizes the other supplements, he might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects him. (Krill oil is the same as fish oil; we suggest mag citrate or glycinate.)

you have missed a very important post by Alto.

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Shep
10 minutes ago, bubble said:

you have missed a very important post by Alto.

 

I'm going to emphasize this, as well.

 

Wisconsin, please answer Alto's questions. Alto has been running this forum for many years and has a lot of experience on how these drugs and supplements affect the brain/body for someone in withdrawal. 

 

Her feedback will be invaluable. As we've posted several times on your thread, your son is likely being made worse by some of these supplements. 

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ChessieCat

Just to clarify, Alto has asked the questions beside the things in the list.

 

She used purple font.

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