Katieone: is it my time?

[Katieone]

Twenty years ago this fall, I started taking paxil.  I was also prescribed clonazapam, and used that for a while: years.  But paxil has been my darling.  There every day for me in its pink pantsuit, waiting with its special odor and taste "the pink pill" after 20years, is now "the red pill".  Much more awake, married (stable), two kids, I don't want to mess a good thing up (stable). And yet (stable), I would like to know of my dear brain's inherent capacity (stable) and its elasticity.  I wonder (stable) of who I am now.  I am no longer the 25 year old "kid" who was looking for a way to cope with the life she had created.  I've learned to more than cope.  I've learned to thrive.  Is paxil (stable) part of that?  If we part ways (stable), will I be me?  

[ChessieCat]

Hi Katieone and welcome to SA,

 

Have you started coming off your Paxil?

 

Are you still using clonazepam, even if only occasionally?  If yes, please post detailing your usage over the last 3 months.

 

As an encouragement, I would like to tell you that I have been taking an AD for 25 years.  Links are in my drug signature (below my post).  My most recent AD was Pristiq 100mg.  Following SA's suggested method of reduction I am now down to 4mg.  Even though I do experience some withdrawal symptoms, they are usually mild.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

When the drug is taken away too quickly we can get withdrawal symptoms:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

This topic explains how to get the dose you need:  Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

Tapering Calculator - Online

 

 

Please create your drug signature using the following format.  Please include clonazepam.   If you don't know exact dates please use early,mid, late.  Keep it simple.  NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 

This is your own introductions topic where your can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.

 

[Katieone]

Chessiecat,

 

No, I have not started and no, I am no longer taking clonopam.  I'll attempt a signaturr, though I have two questions: who is funding this forum, are you getting paid and what do you want drug history for?

 

Thank you,

Katieone

[ChessieCat]

On 4/6/2012 at 9:14 AM, Altostrata said:

This site was started in March 2011. Altostrata is the site administrator and owner. She runs the site with the help of amazingly dedicated assistant administrators and moderators who have become knowledgeable about tapering. We are all peer counselors -- none of us offer advice as medical professionals.

No one profits from this site. We are all volunteers. The site is funded by contributions from its members and guests.

Many of the charter members had been participants for years in other antidepressant withdrawal forums.

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

9 minutes ago, Katieone said:

what do you want drug history for?

 

We need to know your drug history so that we can offer suggestions based on your individual situation.

 

It’s very difficult to offer suggestions without knowing all the details.  The effect of going on and off psychiatric drugs has a cumulative effect.  For example, if a member chopped and changed drugs and/or doses several years ago, that may be the reason way they are experiencing issues now.

 

17 minutes ago, Katieone said:

I am no longer taking clonopam. 

 

Q:  When was the last time you took clonazepam?  We need to know this as explained above.

[Katieone]

Hi Chessie, I saved a drug signature.  Did you see it?

 

K1!

[ChessieCat]

Yes, your drug signature is visible.

 

Please make the following edits.  Thank you.

 

Paxil 20mg last two years.  Hi Mom!

Clonopam 1999-2003 .5/day as needed

Paxil 20mg 1999 to present day minus one year (2008-2009).  Tapered off and on 2005 to 2009.  MOVE THIS LINE TO BOTTOM

Lexapro 10 mg DATES/YEAR/HOW LONG, clonopam 1pill DATE/YEAR, ambien DATE/YEAR/HOW LONG,

Buspar 5mg 2009-2009

[Katieone]

Edits are made.  I think this forum may be of help.  Perhaps we help eachother.

[ChessieCat]

Thanks Katie, that gives a really good, simple overview of your drug history, which is what we need to be able to see.

 

When you start tapering please remember to update it with the date and the dose.  You could just add a new line with them one after this other like this example (I've put Paxil 20mg as the starting dose so we can see it clearly.

 

Example:

 

Paxil 20mg:  19 Mar 2019, 18mg; 20 Apr, 16.5mg; 25 May, 14mg; etc

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by ChessieCat

[Katieone]

Hello, All,

 

Three nights ago was my maiden voyage for going off of a long-term relationship with Paxil.  I am reflecting today, with mild symtpoms of headache and nausea, that I had been preparing for this moment for a long time:  even researching cancer survivor stories and protocols in preparation for change.  Is my condition lethal/fatal?  it has now become more of a question of quality of life.  Over the lifetime of taking Paxil, I used the illusion of chemical imbalance to get straight with myself.  It has been my initiation, and it has been about my relationship with myself.  Three nights ago there was no one to witness me, or cheer me.  This is not a topic I can share with my young children, my parents, or even my partner.  This is a topic I can share with myself and a forum full of strange friends who have been there.  The affection I feel for you "faceless" names in this moment is real.  I have no idea who will reply to this message, or why, but I know I will be heard and seen and even understood.  That makes this voyage possible and even friendly.  Thank you to all who have gone before, all who will come after, and to myself for all of the perseverance.  If there were any other words to describe how I feel now, it would be humble, confident, and ready.  

[Sassenach]

Hi Katie

 

I hope you have not done this cold turkey as I did.

 

It is not a shortcut to quitting as I found out.

 

However I am sure the staff on here who know far more than me will be in touch.

 

I would like to wish you well but am sorry you are feeling alone when you have family around.

 

Can you not at least speak to your partner because support is very important.

 

All the best

[Katieone]

Sassenach, it is all about choices.  It is all about significance.  I place no significance on the fact that I am relying on myself and this website.  I have not taken any shortcuts, nor do I perceive that I am alone.  

[Sassenach]

Wow

 

That is me told.

 

Good luck anyway

[Katieone]

😆

[Katieone]

Okay, so I just started tapering about a week and a half ago from paxil 20mg (on for almost 20 years, see signature) to 18mg, paxil.  It was preceeded by a glorious window, but my scared brain gloms on to the painful wave initiated in the middle of the night last night, and I feel my mojo is already weak.  I don't have "fight" in me, and I know that many of you may see that as a weakness, I don't know, but I find I am not willing to suffer, like, "at all".  I've suffered enough with this drug.  Sooooooo . . . I've thought I could go brass monkey style, but not sure I have the heart for it.  I have a good life, and my kids are pretty young.  I don't have major side effects from taking the paxil, except that I do not like reinforcing my dependence on a drug I do not need.  

 

Has anyone started to taper, and just figured it is not the time, for whatever reason, and yet likes to hang around these forums?  

 

Thank you,

 

Iskatie

[brassmonkey]

Hi Katie-- welcome to SA.  I've noticed that you have posted questions in several places around the forum, it's best to ask them all right here on your intro thread so you can keep all the information in one place and we have access to everything without having to hunt for it. Thank you for posting an excellent signature, that is so important and very helpful.

 

You're in a very good place to start on a taper and we can give you a lot of good information about how to do it.  Even though its been for a lot of years, the fact that you're only taking one medication is a great place to be.  Doing the first 10% reduction is a very scary step to take.  I was terrified when I started mine, but knew it had to be done.  You've been on the drug for a long time and it will take a shockingly long time to get off of it, but it can be done.  Paxil is considered one of the hardest drugs to taper, but I know a lot of people, myself included, who have been on very high doses (40 - 80 mg) and have tapered successfully.  I'll be drug free 2 years next week.

 

You indicated on the tapering thread that you might want to try a Brassmonkey Slide.  I highly recommend it, there are a large number of members using it or some variation of it and having great success.  The whole idea behind it is to reduce the affects of the WD symptoms so a person can live as normal a life as possible.  It doesn't remove the symptoms but does really help to minimize them.  If you're interested just say so and we can walk you through what needs to be done.

 

There is a huge amount of information on the site, if you have a question there is probably a topic about it, read everything you can, get very confused and ask a lot of questions.  At first it can be overwhelming, but eventually the pieces will start to fall into place. There are also a lot of very friendly people going through experiences similar to yours, feel free to check out their threads and say hi.

 

Brassmonkey

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, Katieone said:

Okay, so I just started tapering about a week and a half ago from paxil 20mg (on for almost 20 years, see signature) to 18mg, paxil.  It was preceeded by a glorious window, but my scared brain gloms on to the painful wave initiated in the middle of the night last night, and I feel my mojo is already weak.  I don't have "fight" in me, and I know that many of you may see that as a weakness, I don't know, but I find I am not willing to suffer, like, "at all".  I've suffered enough with this drug.  Sooooooo . . . I've thought I could go brass monkey style, but not sure I have the heart for it.  I have a good life, and my kids are pretty young.  I don't have major side effects from taking the paxil, except that I do not like reinforcing my dependence on a drug I do not need.  

 

Has anyone started to taper, and just figured it is not the time, for whatever reason, and yet likes to hang around these forums?  

 

Thank you,

 

Iskatie

 

katie, I merged your recent topics into this one because it seems within a very short amount of time you changed your mind about going off Paxil.

 

Of course you can stay on it if you want. Millions of people are doing the same. It's a valid argument that if it isn't causing any side effects and you have difficulty reducing it, leave well enough alone and stay on it.

 

Entirely up to you. Please let us know how you're doing.

[Katieone]

Thank you,  Brassmonkey and Altostrata,

 

I appreciate your responses.  I am feeling better today after reaching out online, reaching out to a potential psychiatrist from the list (HAVAN), talking to my husband and friend, and reinstating the 20mg - all which translated, for me into a better night and good sleep.  

[Sassenach]

Support from a partner is always good😲

[Katieone]

Exploring Really slow taper.  Perhaps 11-20 years.  no big deal.  no hurry.  I'll quote Alostrata here, as this information about excess corisol is pertinant to withdrawl for me.  "

 

"I did try phosphatidylserine and found it to be helpful.

 

A note from 2007: I took 100mg phosphatidylserine (Seriphos) yesterday at 8 am (with fish oil) and 3 pm, and got some sleep last night.I got drowsy in the afternoon. It does seem to be relaxing, maybe too much in the daytime when I have to work!

 

 

I also researched cortisol fighters. Here are some I found to be helpful:

 

- Vitamin C in controlled-release tablets or fresh fruit

 

- Baby aspirin (be sure to take with food)

 

- Vitamin B12 (good for some, not for others)

 

- DHEA (for older women only, see topic on DHEA)

 

- Magnesium -- I would put a little magnesium citrate powder in ice water and sip it when I had a surge of anxiety. Magnesium is "nature's calcium channel blocker." Some people find taking capsules or tablets of magnesium helps the anxiety and aids relaxation. If you take too much magnesium at one time, however, you will get stomach cramps and diarrhea, so start off with a very low amount. I found I could take only 50mg-75mg at a time. Mag citrate is one of the best absorbed and easier on the gut. See this magnesium factsheet.

 

According to the article below, magnesium reduces release of ACTH and the reaction of the adrenals to ACTH.

 

ACTH is the pituitary hormone that signals the adrenals to produce cortisol (see http://www.webmd.com/hw/health_guide_atoz/zm2408.asp). Cortisol is the "fight or flight" stress hormone that causes those discontinuation waves of anxiety/despair.

 

From my experience, I recommend small divided doses (or extended release) of magnesium citrate (absorbed well and does not have the diarrhea side effect) throughout the day to combat those cortisol-driven waves of anxiety/despair. I put magnesium citrate in water to sip. A largish dose of magnesium may aid sleep. From what I've read, a maximum of 600mg total magnesium citrate per day is okay.

 

Nutr Neurosci. 2002 Dec;5(6):375-89.

Magnesium and affective disorders.

Murck H.

 

Laxdale Ltd, Stirling, UK. haraldmurck@yahoo.de

 

There are several findings on the action of magnesium ions supporting their possible therapeutic potential in affective disorders. Examinations of the sleep-electroencephalogram (EEG) and of endocrine systems point to the involvement of the limbic-hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenocortical axis as magnesium affects all elements of this system. Magnesium has the property to suppress hippocampal kindling, to reduce the release of adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH) and to affect adrenocortical sensitivity to ACTH. The role of magnesium in the central nervous system could be mediated via the N-methyl-D-aspartate-antagonistic, gamma-aminobutyric acidA-agonistic or a angiotensin II-antagonistic property of this ion. A direct impact of magnesium on the function of the transport protein p-glycoprotein at the level of the blood-brain barrier has also been demonstrated, possibly influencing the access of corticosteroids to the brain. Furthermore, magnesium dampens the calciumion-proteinkinase C related neurotransmission and stimulates the Na-K-ATPase. All these systems have been reported to be involved in the pathophysiology of depression. Despite the antagonism of lithium to magnesium in some cell-based experimental systems, similarities exist on the functional level, i.e. with respect to kindling, sleep-EEG and endocrine effects. Controlled clinical trials examining the effect of Mg in affective disorder are warranted."

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[Katieone]

Update

 

HI folks, it has been a while since I have posted.  I am still raising my children, 11 and 9, and still mindful of tapering while maintaining my role as "Mom" for my beautiful family.  It is a balancing act, and I am not sure if I will be able to do what I want to do because of how much I want to feel good all the time for my family . . . yet, the call to taper still comes to me and won't let me go.  So, here I am, trying again, even though it seems I am no wiser at all.  Case in point:  I started doing Wim Hof cold showers and have got used to doing it daily.  Not sleeping well at night clued me in to the idea that maybe my 20mg paxil is now too high a dose since I am getting so many benefits from Wim Hof.  Years ago when I tried 30mg Paxil, found that I didn't sleep as well, so went back to 20mg.  It was the same feeling after Wim Hof help, so, me thinks "maybe I can taper and mother and wim hof all at the same time".  Good thought.  Then, I took 10mg.  Sharp taper?  Yes.  But I am so smart you see (ha) and read that the real work begins at 10mg down.  So, I figure I will try it and see if it is true . First two days okay.  The a painful wave and just feeling irritable and not myself.  So, yesterday (after two days and a half) took more medicine and today took fifteen mg.  Feeling okay, just irritable and not making a big effort on behalf of my children.  See the line?  Quite a line to walk.  Fine.  Not a bad exercise, just hard.  So, I am now going to take 15mg and see how that feels a couple of days.  Sleep, ironically, feels about the same, yet now I am able to do more cold exposure, which may not be here or there, or may be a lynch pin.  That's it for now.  Thank you for listening.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

@Katieone

 

Thank you for coming back to post an update.

 

I have merged the new Introduction topic with your original Introduction topic.  Each member has only ONE Introduction topic.  Your Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions about your own situation and where you can journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means that you do not have to repeat yourself.

 

Please do not create another new Introduction topic.  Thank you.