Oliver1974: sertraline / Zoloft tapering

[Songbird]

1 hour ago, Oliver1974 said:

This is gonna sound kind of silly, but do I have an intro topic already?  I’ve just been posting and responding to posts but I’m not quite sure I understand whether I have an intro topic or not.  

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/20119-oliver1974-sertraline-zoloft-tapering/

 

You might want to bookmark it.

[RachelSusan]

Hi Stefan,

 

I have been on Zoloft since Feb. 2016.  I was on 100 to 150 mg all that spring and then went cold turkey July of 2016.  I reinstated and started a too fast taper.  I am now down to 3.0 mg and am doing it slowly and safely.  Even the recommended 10% a month turned out to be to fast for me. My method is liquid Zoloft so that I can taper smaller increments, and about 4% every six weeks.

 

I think it might have been you who was asking on another member's page what is your introduction or intro topic, and how do you start one?  Well this entire thread is your introduction. I appears to me that maybe this thread was started by a moderator for you as a courtesy after you posted introduction like comments elsewhere.  I'm not sure but that is what it looks like to me. Maybe the fact that you didn't start it yourself if where the confusion comes in??????

[Oliver1974]

Great! Thank you

[Songbird]

@Oliver1974  I've moved our conversation to your intro topic so we don't hijack the other member's topic.

[Oliver1974]

Rachel

 

Cold turkey, YIKES! 

 

I’m not surprised that the 10% taper did not work the second time. From what I understand your body probably suffered so much stress from the cold turkey withdrawals that it became sensitized.

 

I also made the mistake of trying to reduce my Zoloft by 30% in one go.  After day five I was an absolute hell and had to take my original dose.  Then five days later I try to reduce my days by 1 mg a day, and by day eight I was literally going out of my mind.  Yet again I had to resume my original 75 mg dose . 

 

In total I’ve been on Zoloft for 10 months.  In that time I’ve had a chance to speak to a lot of different people and read many books on the topic of antidepressants and withdrawal.  I’ve found a compounding pharmacy that’s making me the 10% dose reductions.  I will start tapering this September.  I also have liquid Zoloft in case I need to taper slower. Or I can reengage the compounding pharmacy to make me smaller doses. I’m feeling quite confident in my ability  he to taper off this drug as long as I am slow and pay tension to my body/mind.  I also have liquid diazepam to get me through any extra rough patches. 

 

By now I’m quite familiar with benzo diazepam’s. I have titrated off of them three times.  And bridged from Xanax to lorazepam, diazepam and to liquid diazepam. 

 

 Good for you for getting down to 3 mg  !!!!!!!!!!!

 

regards

Stefan

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oliver1974]

I want to start titrating off Setraline (Zoloft) this September. I have contacted a compounding pharmacy that is willing to make me pills using the 10% reducción method.

 

My question is:

 

Should I ask the pharmacy to crush my existing pills into powder  (because my body is used to them) and ask them to make my taper with that, or let them use pure sertraline and whatever binding agent they choose. What do you think is a better idea? I want to be as accurate as possible and remove as many of variables as possible.

 

Needless to say I’m terrified of throwing myself off. I’m currently stable and I know what SSRI withdrawal feels like. It’s the worst feeling I’ve ever had in my life, BY FAR!

 

Stefan

[ChessieCat]

It would probably be best to get them to use the same pills you are currently using and get them to create capsules.

 

However, it is very easy to make a liquid from Zoloft tablets.  Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

Only make one change at a time, so do not make a reduction at the same time as changing form of the drug.

 

It is generally recommended to do a cross over, 3-7 days at each of these combos:  3/4 old + 1/4 new, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4.  This is gentler on your system.

 

Even changing from powdered tablets to the same powdered tablets in capsule is classed as a change of form.  The delivery of the drug into your system is going to be different.

[Oliver1974]

Hi Chessie

 

The farmacy said they cannot crush my tablets because they can’t garante the accuracy of Setraline content per dose.

 

Taking the following guidance into account, which of the scenarios do you think would be the gentlest on my system?  I’m trying to avoid severe withdrawal at all costs. 

 

“ It’s generally recommended to do a bridge over, 3-7 days at each of these combos:  3/4 old + 1/4 new, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4. This is gentler on your system.”

 

Scenarios

 

1.)  let the compounding pharmacy make me the doses and then bridge over from my tablets to their capsules.

 

2.)  Bridge over from my tablets to liquid Setraline.

 

3.) Turn my tablets into liquid and bridge over to the liquid.

 

 Regards

Stefan

[Shep]

Sorry, Stefan, looks like your last post got overlooked. 

 

Did you already choose an option? 

 

Any of those options are good as long as the change is done in a gradual manner, as you mentioned. 

 

[Oliver1974]

Shep,

 

I’m going with bridging over to the compounded capsules and then tapering off of them .

 

I currently take 75mg = one tablet and a half = three 25mg pieces.

 

The farmacy  is going to make me:

 

30 x 25mg capsules 

30 x 50mg capsules 

30 x 75mg capsules 

 

Then I will take:

 

50mg tablet & 25mg capsule for a month.

25mg tablet & 50mg capsule for a month.

75mg capsule only = bridge complete.

 

Once I’m completely stable on the capsules, I will have the farmacy reduce the setraline content of the capsules by 10% every month according to the 10% rule. I will also have the farmacy prepare batches for me to level out on every week for a month if necessary. 

 

I also have liquid diazepam to help soften any withdrawals that might come up.

 

From all the options I’ve looked at, this titration plan seems the gentlest, lest complicated and most accurate.

 

regards

Stefan

 

 

 

[Shep]

Looks like a well thought out plan, Stefan. If 10% turns out to be too rapid, you can always work with your compounder for a gentler taper if needed. 

 

Let us know how you do.

[Oliver1974]

Hello friends

 

I’d like to sprinkle some positive vibes into the pot for all of you going through a Benzo taper.

 

As of five days ago I am officially done with my Diazepam taper.  I’m very thankful for liquid Diazepam. Part of me wants to hate these chemicals, but if it wasn’t for diazepam I would’ve been in some really really hot water with two failed (fast) SSRI tapers. Diazepam took me out of a whirlwind of acute anxiety on a number of occasions.

 

I am currently feeling some diazepam withdrawals,  accelerated heartbeat, diarrhea, tinnitus, muscle pains/spasms, disrupted sleep, the usual. However, because I tapered so gradually, the side effects are not crippling.

 

 

Eating though I’m no very hungry, drinking liquids, resting, being kind to myself, staying away from chaotic situations,  binging on Netflix, this is my MO.  I’ll take 150 mg of paracetamol if my body pains (back) are very annoying. Someone of my weight and height would take 600 mg or so but I am a fast metabolizer, thus I need less.  I also don’t want to give my liver more work to do while it’s detoxing from diazepam.

 

I expecct to feel rough for the next week or so, but I will keep posting. 

 

                              Be the turtle 

  “SLOW, SLOW, SLOW, SLOW, SLOW, SLOW”

 

chin up pip pip.

[Shep]

Oliver, I received your PM and would like to see if we can go over your taper history here in your thread to see if there may be some ways of helping tone down some of your symptoms. 

 

Please update your signature to reflect when you came off the diazepam. 

 

Account - Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

 

Since it's only been a few days ago, it's safe to reinstate a small amount of the diazepam. The more you can post about the rate at which you tapered since you were last active on the forum, the more information we'll have to offer a safe reinstatement amount. What amount did you stop at? 

 

Also, you may want to stay on the reinstatement amount until after you are off Zoloft. Was there a reason you decided to come off the benzo first? From the posts you made back in May when you were last active on the forum, you were going to taper the Zoloft first. Were you having side effects from the diazepam? 

 

Please note that the half life of diazepam is 200 hours (8 days), so you still have the drug in your system. If you are having severe withdrawal symptoms at 5 days out, these symptoms may get worse, so a reinstatement could help resolve them. 

 

[Oliver1974]

Hello Shep,

 

I came totally off liquid diazepam six days ago. I had been titrating down from 1 mL (2mg = 1ml) for 67 days.  I would consider this a rather slow and appropriate taper.  I must admit though that I did rush the last 0.2 mL.  I don’t know why I keep on underestimating these chemicals. Even in their tiniest doses they pack a punch.  I would say I show many of the withdrawal symptoms but none of them are what I would deem acute or severe.  God help me had I have gone cold turkey!

 

I decided to come off diazepam before the Zoloft because I wanted to chisel off some of these chemicals from my system.  I was not having any adverse side effects from diazepam that I am aware of.  I simply wanted to get rid of something that I felt capable of.

 

My plan is to hold fast through winter and start titrating off Zoloft with good weather next April. I figured that being on one drug is better than being on two. Plus I wanted to see what my body felt like on Zoloft and nothing but Zoloft. I’ve only felt the Zoloft under the influence of trazodone and diazepam. I no longer take trazodone, and when I get past this miserable bumpy diazepam hump, I’ll only be on Zoloft.

 

how is this rationale?

 

regards

Stefan

 

 

[Shep]

If you're sleeping okay, you may do well without a reinstatement. However, if you're struggling with sleep, you may want to consider reinstating a tiny amount. 

 

I'm glad your symptoms aren't acute and you're able to cope. 

 

22 hours ago, Oliver1974 said:

My plan is to hold fast through winter and start titrating off Zoloft with good weather next April.

 

This sounds like a wise plan. Please let us know how you're doing prior to your Zoloft taper. I hope everything continues to improve over the next few months. 

[Oliver1974]

Shep,

 

I wouldn’t say that my sleep is good, but I do think it’s passable considering the circumstances.  I do feel a bit rough in the mornings  but I expect the withdrawl is a bit stronger that time a day.

 

I will definitely keep you in the loop regarding my progress and before any tampering with Zoloft.

 

You probably already know this but I just wanna let you know how very grateful I am for your guidance.  

 

Regards

Stefan

[Shep]

You're welcome, Stefan. I'm glad you're managing through this phase of withdrawal and wish you more healing. 

[Oliver1974]

Shep,

 

I’ve had pretty intense back aches for quite a while now, like months.  It’s a bit difficult to describe. It’s like they wander throughout my back.  It’s either my lower back or between my shoulders or the middle of my back etc.  It seems like it’s caused by muscle tension. I’m  reticent to get massages because I’ve heard that can actually make matters worse. I have a feeling this has something to do with the Zoloft. Can you recommend any remedies for this?  Have you heard of people suffering the same way ?

 

 I’ve been taking small amounts of paracetamol (150mg) but I don’t want to rely on this.  I’m also considering acupuncture.

 

regards

Stefan

[Shep]

Please update your signature to reflect when you came off the diazepam. 

 

Account - Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

 

Since you've had this muscle tension / back pain for months, it may be the result of your benzo taper. Please note that benzos are powerful muscle relaxers, so it's important to stretch while coming off them.

 

Here are some ideas from the Beyond Meds site:

 

Beyond Meds - Yoga articles and videos

 

You may want to go onto YouTube and search for "yoga after back surgery". The kind of videos that come up are going to ultra easy for people in recovery from back injuries or surgery, so they may be a very gentle way to stretch your back until you've recovered enough to get a massage and / or move to more advanced stretching. 

 

I had some issues with low back pain prior to withdrawal and I found this video to be very helpful:

 

Fast Lower Back Pain & Sciatica Pain Relief – Beginners Yoga Stretches and Poses video (19 minutes)

 

Another idea is an epsom salt bath. Epsom salts contain magnesium, so make sure you're not sensitive to magnesium (you could try using only 1/2 cup of epsom salts to test your sensitivity and then work your way up). 

 

Epsom salts baths - another way to relax with magnesium

 

For more non-drug ways of dealing with pain:

 

Non-drug techniques for dealing with body pain

 

As listed in that link, the "legs up the wall" yoga pose is a great pose that's very easy to do and very restorative. Here's a video of how it goes:

 

Legs Up The Wall - Foundations of Yoga video (7 minutes)

 

 

On 8/17/2019 at 4:45 AM, Oliver1974 said:

 I’m also considering acupuncture.

 

Please see:

 

Acupuncture 

[Oliver1974]

 Thank you Shep,

 

This is been very informative.  I think stretching is a very good idea and I will proceed with legs up the wall and a few other easy-going moves.

 

warnest

Stefab

[Shep]

How are you feeling now, Oliver? Did the stretching relieve any of the pain? 

[Oliver1974]

Hello Shep 

 

I’ve been doing the stretching and the legs up the wall  exercise. It brings me some relief. Can you explain why one would get this muscle tension/pain to begin with while detoxing from Diazepam. It really takes a phycological tole. One begins to wonder if it’s permanent, you know, that whole health anxiety crap.  I’ve been off Diazepam for 16 days now. 

 

Here’s another question:  This is the first time I’ve been off diazepam while being on Zoloft. I also feel a bit shaky. Am I feeling the unadulterated Zoloft for the first time or is this all the Diazepam withdrawal? Any time frame?

 

I appreciate any insight you might have.

 

regards

Stefan

[Shep]

1 hour ago, Oliver1974 said:

Can you explain why one would get this muscle tension/pain to begin with while detoxing from Diazepam. It really takes a phycological tole. One begins to wonder if it’s permanent, you know, that whole health anxiety crap.  I’ve been off Diazepam for 16 days now. 

 

Benzo have muscle relaxing properties and anytime you come off a drug that has that, it can cause your muscles to get really tight. The same is true for other psychiatric drugs, such as the tricyclic antidepressants, which are used off-label as muscle relaxers. So stretching is very important when coming off these kinds of drugs.

 

 

1 hour ago, Oliver1974 said:

Here’s another question:  This is the first time I’ve been off diazepam while being on Zoloft. I also feel a bit shaky. Am I feeling the unadulterated Zoloft for the first time or is this all the Diazepam withdrawal? Any time frame?

 

Did you go on Zoloft before going on a benzo? If you went on both drugs at the same time, it may be hard to tell.

 

Here are a few links that can shed some light on the timeframe. Unfortunately, we can't make any guarantees, but you'll feel better as time passes and you get off all psychiatric drugs. It can be painfully slow, so treat yourself kindly. 

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain (specific to antidepressants)

 

What is happening in your brain? (specific to benzos)

 

[Oliver1974]

Hello Shep,

 

Affirmative, I  was put on Trazodone, Zoloft and Xanax all at the same time. I’m not gonna go into what a nightmare this has been, but at this point I am only on Zoloft, having titrated slowly off trazodone and eventually bridging too and tapering off Diazepam.

 

The muscle tension seems to have a life of its own. It moves over my back/neck/head like a constrictor. Usually hits me when I wake up. Then will disappear only to re-emerge randomly.  The same is true for the tinnitus. My stool is also out of sorts. Sleep is rather restless.  If I’m not mistaken this all seems to point towards withdrawal.

 

 I’m going for acupuncture today but I’ve made it expressly clear that I’m not looking for a detox and that the practitioner is not to stimulate my nervios system.

 

Your thoughts?

 

regards

Stefan

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Oliver1974 said:

I’m going for acupuncture today but I’ve made it expressly clear that I’m not looking for a detox and that the practitioner is not to stimulate my nervios system.

 

 

I'm not familiar with acupuncture, but we do have a thread for those sharing their experiences.

 

Acupuncture

 

You are wise to let him or her know that it should not be stimulating. That's the advice that others say is most helpful. 

 

Please let us know how you do. 

[Altostrata]

Correct, Stefan, you will want relaxing treatments from an acupuncturist. Sometimes they misguidedly try to treat what they think is "depression" with stimulating treatments.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Oliver1974]

Shep,

 

Good day.  If I’ve been taking 1 ml of liquid Diazepam (2 mg) every day for eight months, how long do you think it would take for all of this to leave my system including the metabolites? From what I understand, even the metabolites affect the body in different ways. 

 

Regards

Stefan

[Oliver1974]

 Shep I really enjoyed that information regarding what benzodiazepines do to the body. It was quite encouraging so thank you and please pass on my thanks to the anonymous author .

 

Stefan

[Shep]

1 hour ago, Oliver1974 said:

If I’ve been taking 1 ml of liquid Diazepam (2 mg) every day for eight months, how long do you think it would take for all of this to leave my system including the metabolites? From what I understand, even the metabolites affect the body in different ways. 

 

I'm not sure exactly how long it takes, and I'm sure it's very individual depending on your speed of metabolizing. I've read that Valium can be detected with a hair follicle drug test at 90 days, so it's a drug that sticks around for awhile. 

 

When dealing with dependency issues, that's actually a good thing. It's the drugs with the shortest half-lives that tend to be more problematic for people trying to come off. Not always, of course, but for some. 

[Oliver1974]

Shep,

 

I hear you on the drugs with the short half lives.  I had a horrific run-in with Xanax and intermittent withdrawal!!!!!!!!!  I was having full on withdrawl every day until I figured out what the hell was going on.  Fortunately I’m a fairly smart chap so I did a blood test and found out that I’m a fast metabolizer. Needless to say I quickly bridged over to lorazepam then diazepam and then tapered off diazepam liquid.  The torture on Xanax was inhumane.  It felt like someone had stuffed electrical wires into my abdomen and was electrocuting me for hours on end.  If that drug was alive I would put it through a meatgrinder SLOWLY.  I’ve never hated something  inanimate so much in my life.

[Oliver1974]

Shep,

 

First of all thank you very much for helping me down this  bewildering path. 

 

Ever since titrating off benzos I’ve noticed that my speech has been impaired. I occasionally  slur and make mistakes using F instead of TH. I’ve never done this before in my life!  Also, Ill say something and a second later when somebody responds, I’m clueless as to what they’re talking about. I don’t remember saying it, or perhaps I thought I said to myself.

I’m not talking about a full conversation but rather a statement that I said for example. Anyway it’s pretty disturbing. Today is my 20th day without diazepam and I’m still peeing positive on the test strips. The only junk I’m currently taking is 75 mg of Zoloft in the morning. 

 

Have you heard of this issue before? 

 

Regards

Stefan

[Shep]

Impaired speech is common for many of us during withdrawal.

 

Problems with Speech or Communicating

 

These drugs affect so many parts of the brain, many of us struggle with finding words and being able to articulate them well during withdrawal. Part of the problem concerns memory and recall. 

 

Many of us find that using email and text instead of phone calls can be helpful. 

[Oliver1974]

Hello Friends

 

It’s been 32 days since I titrated fully from liquid Diazepam.  I have felt some muscle twitching, anxiety, nausea, tinnitus, stress, but the main issue has been really tight back and neck muscles.  

 

The sore back and neck takes a toll on one’s psychological state as well as physical state.  I find that now anything uncomfortable in my body gets translated into fear in my head.  I’m just so sick of feeling uncomfortable.

 

I went to see a specialist and she mentioned that I need to stretch and not sit around so much. All said and done I’m in pretty good shape due to the fact that I titrated very slowly.

 

Come spring I will start titrating off Sertraline.  I decided not to rock the boat over the winter in case the dreary weather exacerbates anything. 

 

 Slowly but surely my friends.

 

 

[Shep]

3 hours ago, Oliver1974 said:

The sore back and neck takes a toll on one’s psychological state as well as physical state.  I find that now anything uncomfortable in my body gets translated into fear in my head.  I’m just so sick of feeling uncomfortable.

 

I went to see a specialist and she mentioned that I need to stretch and not sit around so much.

 

Are you able to take a yoga class? There's a type of yoga called "restorative yoga" that might be a good fit. This is a very gentle form of yoga that's not only physically healing, but emotionally healing. Trauma-sensitive yoga is another type that you might benefit from.

 

3 hours ago, Oliver1974 said:

All said and done I’m in pretty good shape due to the fact that I titrated very slowly.

 

Very glad to read this. Excellent update.

[Oliver1974]

Hello friends,

 

So I’ve been off Diazepam for 40 days but I’m still on Sertraline. I have really tight neck, back and shoulders. My body in general feels skittish.

 Could I be feeling the full affect of the sertraline now that I don’t take the benzodiazepines, or am I feeling the withdrawal from the Benzo‘s? Or is there really no way of telling?

[Shep]

40 days is 960 hours. This is a half-life calculator, which is helpful for figuring out how much of the drug is still in your system. 

 

Drug Half Life Calculator

 

The active metabolite of Valium is up to 200 hours. If you put in the dose and 200 hours, you'll see it takes 1,400 hours before you're down to 0%. So you're still slowly withdrawing from Valium. 

 

How much sleep are you getting each night?