hayduke: coming off olanzapine / Zyprexa

[hayduke]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:14 PM, Felix said:

hay, did you feel anxiety or depression after you jump to zero? At 0.205 mg, how many d2 occupancy do you think olanzapine had?

Not really, no.  I would say any anxiety was related to actual circumstances and not impeding me from dealing with them.

General anxiety stopped being a problem for me after EMDR in 2019.

Hopela had a discussion on receptor occupancy in his thread where he, Dataguy and I thrashed some sketches out with the poor info available, but it was helpful I think.  

 

[Felix]

withdrawal anxiety and depression should be a challenge for me during the withdraw. I was trying to calculate the d2 occupancy for geodon at 20mg but didn't know what number to put into the equation I search from the internet. I forget that the serotonin occupancy I also need to care about. I try to figure out what dose I can jump to zero

[hayduke]

Knowing when to "jump off" won't come down to crunching numbers @Felix.  Like the rest of the taper, you have to listen to what your body is telling you.

In your shoes I would be making plans to manage your anxiety and depression, ideally before you had started the taper, but there's no time like the present.  You could raise your draft plans in your thread after researching if you wanted feedback.

[Felix]

23 hours ago, hayduke said:

Not really, no.  I would say any anxiety was related to actual circumstances and not impeding me from dealing with them.

General anxiety stopped being a problem for me after EMDR in 2019.

Hopela had a discussion on receptor occupancy in his thread where he, Dataguy and I thrashed some sketches out with the poor info available, but it was helpful I think.  

 

hay, thanks for the link! I got the number.

[Bego82]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:40 PM, hayduke said:

Hope you are feeling a whole lot better soon, Brass.

 

Cheers

Hayduke

I love your KMFDM quote on your signature.
How are you doing on your process?
Bests x

[hayduke]

A quick update

Six months to the day since reaching zero.

 

Hasn't been an easy or idle time, but a sense of satisfaction safely here in bed before I get up that I'm still here and kicking.  I think I will soak my feet in some MgCl then meet some friends for brekky 🙂

[Rrsfc]

Congratulations on your successone more time, I hope you continue to do as well 😊.

[Carmie]

On 4/3/2022 at 6:13 AM, hayduke said:

A quick update

Six months to the day since reaching zero.

 

Hasn't been an easy or idle time, but a sense of satisfaction safely here in bed before I get up that I'm still here and kicking.  I think I will soak my feet in some MgCl then meet some friends for brekky 🙂

 

So happy for you Hayduke🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[hayduke]

Have either come down with flu, which people say is going around, or possibly finally covid.  Isolated while I wait for a PCR result.  Not terribly uncomfortable, but any man flu is too much, right?  🙂

[Ariel]

@hayduke

So impressive to read through your thread and follow your heroic tapering journey. Well done!

Thank you for sharing your many experiences and insights along the way. It's interesting to read about the trauma work you've done, very brave. 

I hope you are feeling better from the flu or flu-like symptoms you were having last week. 

Get well soon, and thanks again for your contributions here on SA,

A. 

[hayduke]

Thanks Ariel, I appreciate that.  See you got to zero a couple of months before I did.  How are you getting on?

 

Ariel is a nice name too makes me think of nature 🌲

[hayduke]

PCR test said I did get a coronavirus infection.  Isolated for a bit over a week, starting to get out and about a bit more now.  Earaches are probably the biggest thing I'm worried about.  Fatigue hopefully improving a bit as well, was already grappling with that.  

3/3 rapid antigen tests came out -ve, I think they're garbage.  No wonder it is spreading so much if people think they don't have it when they do.

Spent most of my school holidays in bed

Gradually feeling better as I go, would be rapt if that continues.

Edited April 24, 2022 by hayduke

[Rrsfc]

I'm so glad you're feeling better now. COVID can be hard... Hope you get well soon 😊

[Kostas]

 Ηi ,

Just have in mind ,that pcr can show positive ,even if at the moment your rapid is negative!

Pcr detects minute DNA of the virus  which could be lingering around long after you are not able to pass covid to others ...

[hayduke]

Thank you guys. @Kostas that's right, I would expect PCR to show positive for a while yet, but that's ok. My complaint is that people are assuming that they do not have Covid as the governments tell them to use rapid antigen tests which often come up negative, even when they are actually symptomatic and infectious. No wonder it's spreading like the plague 😛

[Felix]

hay, hope you get better and get back to your amazing self soon.

[BadMedicine]

Hi @hayduke. Hope you’re feeling better post COVID. Take it easy for the next couple of weeks. A few people I know who have had it weren’t very ill with it but struggled with energy and getting back to exercise for a good couple of weeks afterwards.

[Venkat]

Hi @hayduke

I am sure you are doing pretty good. 

Most of the times I find it difficult to comprehend your posts. Your English is few notches higher with some slang added and I won't know what and how to respond. That apart what matters most to me is that you are doing well,which I can understand from your posts . Hope your past trauma too is leaving you with the sessions you are doing. My best wishes with you always.

Wishing you a drug free peaceful life.

 

Also wanted to say I am tolerating magnesium well now , it is taking care of muscle pain and fatigue to some extent. 

 

Regards venkat 

[hayduke]

Thanks all.  Having to watch it as I start feeling better then need to rest again.
 

@Venkat cheers, don't hesitate to ask if you want anything clearer.  I've been speaking various dialects of this complicated mutant language all my life.

[Ariel]

@hayduke

 

On 5/4/2022 at 1:25 PM, hayduke said:

Having to watch it as I start feeling better then need to rest again.

 

I guess you have had plenty of practice listening to your body with respect for healing process! I'm sorry you're an expert, and also congrats for being an expert. 

Anytime I've been sick during withdrawal it has been non-negotiable to take things slooow afterwards. Same as what you and BadMedicine say.

 

On 4/20/2022 at 12:47 PM, hayduke said:

Thanks Ariel, I appreciate that.  See you got to zero a couple of months before I did.  How are you getting on?

Missed this the first time around. Thanks for asking. 

I'm seeing improvements compared to years back. I didn't taper properly (hadn't found SA yet), so it's all kind of a CT mess. Lexapro was/is the big bad meanie, I'm convinced. That, and probably kindling aplenty given a long illustrious drug history prior. Currently in my fifth year post-lex and things are getting better... Honestly I try not to think about it too much. Try to just get through the day as best I can. 

I don't really get waves and windows anymore, do you? I mostly kinda plod along in WD-normal, with some symptom fluctuation along the way. How about you? 

 

Hope you are feeling steadily better post-virus. May a wide-open window await <3 

 

 

[Felix]

hay, do you mind if I ask you, how old are you? And do you go to school now?

[Carmie]

On 4/25/2022 at 12:10 AM, hayduke said:

Thank you guys. @Kostas that's right, I would expect PCR to show positive for a while yet, but that's ok. My complaint is that people are assuming that they do not have Covid as the governments tell them to use rapid antigen tests which often come up negative, even when they are actually symptomatic and infectious. No wonder it's spreading like the plague 😛

Hi Hayduke, 

 

Hope you’re feeling a bit better every day since Covid. 
 

Yes, those RAT tests are pretty hopeless. A friend of mine had symptoms and took four RAT tests. They were all negative, but she had Covid, she had a proper PCR test done. 
 

Sending hugs your way🤗

[hayduke]

Thanks @Carmie.  Still some sniffles and mild cold symptoms 6-7 weeks out, hopefully easing, and the PCR tests are coming back -ve.  Just trying not to push myself too hard, because the world already does enough of that!  Taking zinc, vit D etc.

 

College is good, and I've started taking some work again which I'm enjoying.  My body and brain are still trying to catch up though.

8.5 months since zero and I'm feeling more capacity to do stuff (like clean the house) emerge, again it's a balancing act not to overdo it too.

I will head over to your thread and say hi 🙂

[hayduke]

On 5/8/2022 at 4:27 AM, Ariel said:

@hayduke

I guess you have had plenty of practice listening to your body with respect for healing process! I'm sorry you're an expert, and also congrats for being an expert. 

Anytime I've been sick during withdrawal it has been non-negotiable to take things slooow afterwards. Same as what you and BadMedicine say.

 

Missed this the first time around. Thanks for asking. 

I'm seeing improvements compared to years back. I didn't taper properly (hadn't found SA yet), so it's all kind of a CT mess. Lexapro was/is the big bad meanie, I'm convinced. That, and probably kindling aplenty given a long illustrious drug history prior. Currently in my fifth year post-lex and things are getting better... Honestly I try not to think about it too much. Try to just get through the day as best I can. 

I don't really get waves and windows anymore, do you? I mostly kinda plod along in WD-normal, with some symptom fluctuation along the way. How about you? 

 

Hope you are feeling steadily better post-virus. May a wide-open window await ❤️

 

 

 

I think my hippy friends and some positive psychedelic experiences as a teenager helped me learn to respect my body in a way that my family would never foster, or tolerate.  Narcissistic directives from my mother like "don't introspect too much", "you shouldn't trust your instincts" etc etc don't really stick in quite the same way after that.  That was also the basis for my learning self care, being kind to myself, feeling blissful (now and again) without shame or fear etc...very healing.

Thanks for your well wishes.  I keep feeling angry at how hostile and stressful the world has been made under late stage capitalism, compared to earlier decades growing up where it would have been  far easier to heal in comfort...and also having been set back in life that I am back on the ground floor, except again the ground floor is much meaner.

But also learning gratitude for everyone who helps, takes kindly in a pinch, fights back against a bully, and my own little corner in nature here.

Brain fog is real, sometimes my PTSD is set off again (had a good therapy sesh last month for that, a 'recent events' protocol or similar), which in turn isn't the best for my immune system right now, but my capacity and energy levels are definitely improving.  Still can't drink anything like what I used to, pretty clear my nervous system has a fair way to go yet, but I wouldn't turn back for quids.

It is nice to be off the hook of the drug.  Can relate to your descriptions - this phase is one long hold, really 🙂

Thanks for your well wishes, and I hope you keep feeling better too ❤️

 

 

[Ariel]

@hayduke

Thinking of you with appreciation and sending healing vibes <3

[hayduke]

2 hours ago, Ariel said:

@hayduke

Thinking of you with appreciation and sending healing vibes ❤️

 

Thank you Ariel.  I hope you are having a great weekend 🙂

[hayduke]

An update is probably due.

 

About 10 1/2 months since zero now.  Healing is underway.  There is a long way for my body to go yet, but it is nice to notice now and again that the CFS style symptoms seem to gradually lessen, and so on.  It's still really nice having my wits back, I don't think that will ever get old

 

Life continues to be very challenging.  The standard of living in Australia has been plunging for years, and is probably something like Argentina or Romania now.  Actually Romania is probably better.  Let's hope the change of govt brings some ease and restores our quality of life.  One tactic I think the previous govt used a lot was to make a mess of so many things in our society at once that it would be very difficult to focus on one problem at a time and fix it.  Instead everyone is mired in their own problems and there is very little assistance to be had.  Government services were never that good here and have really become disgraceful.  Likewise, corporations like the major supermarkets are just using it as a smoke screen to rip us off even more.

I still get angry at how much it falls to us abuse victims to try and get any kind of justice, while the abusers just swan around like they own the place.  The wronged parties have to do paperwork, deal with all the horrible events, at a substantial further cost in time and energy (and therefore money) instead of just getting on with our lives.

 

So it's important to pick your battles.

 

However, study is good.  
 

Sleep is ok but not great.  I went on the wagon a few weeks ago and am enjoying the lucidity but it does make me a bit cranky 🙂  I think my body really wants the break.

[Venkat]

@haydukeHappy for you that you are doing so well which you strongly deserve after all the hard work . Just wanted to know if you have fully recovered with regards to your cognitive functions, memory, emotions, creativity,personality etc . Do you feel if you are yet to recover from anything. Hope you don't mind me asking this. For I feel I am recovering well but suffering from deep inferiority complex so much that I cannot be in a group of people, I cannot speak confidently in a group because I am worried that my opinion has no value. My original personality is yet to be recovered. Will I be my original self after reaching zero.

[hayduke]

5 hours ago, Venkat said:

@haydukeHappy for you that you are doing so well which you strongly deserve after all the hard work . Just wanted to know if you have fully recovered with regards to your cognitive functions, memory, emotions, creativity,personality etc . Do you feel if you are yet to recover from anything. Hope you don't mind me asking this. For I feel I am recovering well but suffering from deep inferiority complex so much that I cannot be in a group of people, I cannot speak confidently in a group because I am worried that my opinion has no value. My original personality is yet to be recovered. Will I be my original self after reaching zero.

 

Thanks Venkat. 

 

Unfortunately I've also not had much time to be on the site here lately while I sort out livelihood changes and so on.

 

I don't feel 100% yet, no.  But things do continue to improve.  Energy levels are slowly rising which is very welcome, because being able to do better with the housework and other things brings its own benefits.  It's good for peace of mind to keep things less cluttered than I could before.  

I also can't blame myself about feeling bitter what the cost over the years has been.

It sounds like the problems you're talking about might be things you can work through with a therapist.  They may well not be inherent to the drug.  There are plenty of helpful books on this stuff.  I had a lot of shame to work through, which while gradually leading me to some disturbing premises and their own challenges, has been very liberating to make conscious, process and discard.

I've said it before, but I couldn't have completed my taper without trauma therapy.  And the taper has enabled fuller healing to date.  At 11 months I am confident that not only do I not require this class of drug, but that it has done me grave harms.  Recovery is hard but it's the only game in town, if you know what I mean.  Nothing should be this hard-won, but you can take satisfaction in it.

[Venkat]

Thanks hayduke, wish I had a therapist close by, it would have made things easier. Nearest place where I can find one is about 120kms from my place. I am living in a place filled with ignorant psychiatrists.

 

I too wonder where has my energy levels gone. Feel very tired often.

 

Right now I am doing ok. Managing to work without much anxiety, sleep is not bad either. 

 

Thanks hayduke for being there.

 

[hayduke]

On 9/30/2022 at 4:15 PM, Venkat said:

Thanks hayduke, wish I had a therapist close by, it would have made things easier. Nearest place where I can find one is about 120kms from my place. I am living in a place filled with ignorant psychiatrists.

 

I too wonder where has my energy levels gone. Feel very tired often.

 

Right now I am doing ok. Managing to work without much anxiety, sleep is not bad either. 

 

Thanks hayduke for being there.

 

 

You sound like you are doing pretty well there Venkat.  That is really good to see.  Energy levels are always a problem with this drug.  Beyond its massive sedating properties, it may be implicated in mitochondrial damage, chronic fatigue and so on.  I still find CoQ10 a useful supplement with that although lately not feeling a need for it half as much.

 

[hayduke]

Well then.  It would be bang on one year since my last small dose of prescribed poison.

 

It has been one of the hardest years of my life, but I think that is the way of the world for many right now.  I have been able to rely on myself to get through it in ways I simply couldn't have before.  I am happy to say there has not been a single moment where I considered reinstating.

Lately I am able to even burn a few kg off, and looking to keep them off.  It is interesting shedding these drug induced pounds.  Intermittent fasting is working well for me right now, not as gruelling as extended fasts.

I have to wonder what garbage is being processed from the fat cells as they clear out, and even just the somatic release of that fat being gone seems to bring up feelings from the time before the drugs to process.  Healing is messy and of course welcome.

I am sad to hear @Carmie is having such a tough time at the moment.  Ride it out, sister...we wanna see you heal!

@India I hope you are having a better time with things too.
 

@BadMedicine @Rrsfc @morgana @Lilabella @Shane88L@Emily02 @Venkat and all the other brave souls who somehow also trod in this pharmaceutical dogshit... thank you for your company and support on the way... keep holding your nose and hosing your boots down 🙂 

And of course the marvellous SA crew ... @Altostrata @Shep @ChessieCat for being around and awesome... @brassmonkey for coming up with the protocol that saw me home to zero.. @JanCarol for your cheer and insights, @Ariel @Onmyway @manymoretodays @DataGuy for warmth guidance and conversation.  I am sorry I cannot attend to the site much at the moment, and would like to pick up this important work again later when I might be freer to.

My poor brain can only conjure up so many names at once so if I have not spelt it out here have a hug and a cold beer from me 🙂

A whole trip around the sun now eh.  Whew!

[Altostrata]

Good to hear from you, @hayduke Onward!

[hayduke]

Sometimes I wonder if this whole drugging racket was dreamt up by a gang of sadists to deny us the awesome pleasure of eating grapefruit.

 

Doing ok...hope you all are too.

[hayduke]

Got some busy summer work on, feels like boot camp putting my body through this, but so far so good.  Nice not to have to worry about the rent so much for now.

Body is feeling better overall, and keeping that 10kg off feels really good.  Feeling better in warmer temperatures than before too, I don't notice it's hot till around 27 degrees now where before it was 25.

Still some arthritic bother, I don't know if that will abate.  And my alcohol tolerance is not what it was, either.

Overall at around 15 months out, glad to be this far along the path.

[Venkat]

Good to seeing you doing well hayduke. You rightly deserve a good life after all the trauma you went through and the hard work you have put in getting off the meds. Very happy for you.