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hayduke

hayduke: coming off olanzapine / Zyprexa

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hayduke
46 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Oooooo, getting low now. 

 

 

Have you tried freezing them and taking them that way?  It is a suggestion if you do a search:  freeze fish oil capsules to stop reflux

 

Aye, got 'odourless mini-caps' and keep them in the freezer.  The reflux wasn't an issue for a few weeks but 3 times this week is enough.  I've had to deal with reflux all my life though it's not usually a big problem.  I'm not conscious of the fish oil actually feeling any better than the hemp yogurt, so I'll try and fill the freezer with servings of those ready to go instead.  Cheers

 


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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BadMedicine

@haydukeGlad things are generally going well. You are so low now - it must feel great. I have also found when I have occassionally got a different brand that it disturbed things for a bit. I remember my sleep being really light for about a week after it changed so could well be contributing to your symptoms. Hopefully should settle down quickly but I do wish the pharmacies wouldn't keep chopping and changing which brands they supply! It is very disruptive.


 

Sept 2018 - Nov 2018 200mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine. 

Nov 2018 - Jan 2018 200mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jan 2019 - mid Feb 2019 reduced sertraline from 200 - 50mg, 7.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

Feb 2019- Jun 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jun 2019 - Oct 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine.

Oct 2019 - Nov 2019 37.gmg sertraline, 39mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine.

Nov 2019 -Dec 2019 25mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine. Jan 2020 18.75mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Feb 2020 0mg sertraline, 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. May 2020 1.8mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Aug 2020 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

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hayduke

Cheers @BadMedicine, I had a doctor's note to release a few month's worth to me at the start of quarantine.  Normally the script only releases a month's worth at a time here.  The chemist's had been busy so the other brand is what they had, and they did apologise.  As it turns out, I'm 2 weeks into a 3 week hold after swapping, and it's not a big disruption thankfully. 

 

Quite enjoying the hold and taking a breather from more cuts.  Mid winter is so good for sleep...seeing 8 hrs most nights.

 


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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hayduke

Hold's been going fine.  I was almost ready to start the next cut last night, but entering week 4 with no coffee has been kicking my arse a bit!  Lethargy, muscle and headaches.  Negative covid result so the caffeine is the likely cause.  I'll just wait till that evens out a bit before the next cut.

 

The hemp frogurt works out pretty well.  I'll add magnesium L-threonate powder to the next batch too.  One convenient tasty dessert 🙂


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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BadMedicine

Glad to hear the hold is going well. Sensible to wait till the side effects of the caffeine reduction even out. It is hard enough coping with the withdrawal symptoms of this drug without any added from other causes.


 

Sept 2018 - Nov 2018 200mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine. 

Nov 2018 - Jan 2018 200mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jan 2019 - mid Feb 2019 reduced sertraline from 200 - 50mg, 7.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

Feb 2019- Jun 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jun 2019 - Oct 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine.

Oct 2019 - Nov 2019 37.gmg sertraline, 39mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine.

Nov 2019 -Dec 2019 25mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine. Jan 2020 18.75mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Feb 2020 0mg sertraline, 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. May 2020 1.8mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Aug 2020 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

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hayduke

Becoming increasingly functional on zero coffee after a month or so.  Not that I have any great problem with lounging around when my body calls for it, it's well underrated, but gotta keep the lights on in the rat race and all that.

 

Felt ready to cut in the last week and went to 0.59mg last night.


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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hayduke

The cut's gone well but last week had some serious external stressors so sitting tight on 0.59mg for now.

 

Lots of time out in nature, always marvellous


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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hayduke

Various stresses in the air but I'm hardly alone in that this year.  More anger coming up at various things.  So I'm going to vent a bit 🙂

 

Years of ordeal, the seemingly endless dilemma of holding for comfort vs actively reducing the amount and knowing what it costs each week in what I won't get done, and the discomfort. 

Wanting to do more to help a biosphere entering crisis.  Anger at the greedy sociopaths cruelly gutting our civilisations. 

Having to work during this process, while making a reasonable facade of being professional or lose my independence. 

Not being able to find info on dosage related effects on my serotonin because the drug profiteers don't want people getting off these toxins. 

Still not being fully functional because of wd side effects, at work and home, and cursing the name of the quack who actively steered me away from the therapy I asked for long ago.  He told me to die early in suffering with my body disintegrating and my mind dulled.  I'm still aghast that he told me "Tardive dyskinesia is not that bad". 

There are things I still want to do in this life and he's stolen decades.  Lately I'm trying to set some things right that I was unable to manage while drugged.  But it's good to be getting back on track.

 

Finding it hard to go to yoga during covid, instead spending more time in nature to ground and relax, which is saving my bacon this month I think.

 

I'm coping though.  And I'm thankful for the many good things and people in my world, it blows my mind to look at everything I've had to go through and how that feels yet see many others do it so much tougher.  I dream of the world at large having more compassion and will to heal and I want to be here to see it.  "Indra's net".

 

Now at 0.546mg, felt pretty marginal yesterday 3-4 days into the cut, but juuust on the ok side and much better today.  Woke early and got a bunch of chores that had been piling up done, which feels really good.  Tired tonight but ok.  Two months since I had caffeine, still sluggish many mornings but mostly ok once I warm up.  Started taking CoQ10 again for a bit more energy.

 

My psychologist is pretty satisfied I can complete the taper safely.  I can't wait till I can just fall asleep in the evening and have a good night's sleep without having to get up and put the toxin in my body.

 

Hope everyone is doing ok, it's a bloody tough year.

 

Cheers,

Hayduke


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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BadMedicine
On 9/24/2020 at 1:28 PM, hayduke said:

Years of ordeal, the seemingly endless dilemma of holding for comfort vs actively reducing the amount and knowing what it costs each week in what I won't get done, and the discomfort. 

Sorry you’re feeling so bad at the moment. It really is a brutal and relentless process which is made all the worse by how frustratingly long it takes to do it safely. And olanzapine is I think a particularly difficult drug to get off. But you have come a very long way and have done so by being patient and resilient. I consider you an inspiration for successfully getting as far as you have and I have no doubt you will be able to complete the taper successfully and get off the drug completely. I think the fear that being drug free won’t be possible also adds to the stress of the taper and this is made especially difficult when the data to be able to work out what is going on neurologically in terms of receptor binding profiles is not available. Knowing 

you’re past a certain receptor threshold can give you encouragement that maybe the worst is over.

 

On 9/24/2020 at 1:28 PM, hayduke said:

Still not being fully functional because of wd side effects, at work and home, and cursing the name of the quack who actively steered me away from the therapy I asked for long ago.  He told me to die early in suffering with my body disintegrating and my mind dulled.  I'm still aghast that he told me "Tardive dyskinesia is not that bad". 

There are things I still want to do in this life and he's stolen decades.  Lately I'm trying to set some things right that I was unable to manage while drugged.  But it's good to be getting back on track.

I agree with you about psychiatrists. They are all too keen to get you on drugs but not willing to help you resolve the issues that necessitated the drugs in the first place and certainly not willing to help you get off them. My psychiatrist helpfully said when I told him I wanted to get off the olanzapine that they come in 5mg tablets - you can probably split them in half! No mention of a taper schedule or even seemingly any knowledge that they come in 2.5mg sizes. This is despite evidence that actually people seem to do better functionally long term without drugs. I think their goal is to subdue you enough that you don’t complain and these drugs are certainly effective at subduing you.

I’m sorry you feel you have lost decades of your life to these drugs. You have to try to channel the anger in a positive way. It sounds like you are doing that and I’m sure you’ll have a great future once you are free from the drug and because of all you’ve been through I’m sure you will appreciate it all the more. 
Good luck with your continued tapering. I have faith you can do it and hopefully the worst is behind you now. 


 

Sept 2018 - Nov 2018 200mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine. 

Nov 2018 - Jan 2018 200mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jan 2019 - mid Feb 2019 reduced sertraline from 200 - 50mg, 7.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

Feb 2019- Jun 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jun 2019 - Oct 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine.

Oct 2019 - Nov 2019 37.gmg sertraline, 39mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine.

Nov 2019 -Dec 2019 25mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine. Jan 2020 18.75mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Feb 2020 0mg sertraline, 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. May 2020 1.8mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Aug 2020 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

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hayduke

Thanks @BadMedicine

 

I was always told to suppress my anger in my family, which is obviously very unhealthy.  I can see how it emerged in the form that it did back then with my unaddressed trauma.  And yes the family and the quack going yes well he's shut up now, can he hold down a job despite sleeping 11-13 hrs/day, ok take these pills till you quietly die young, distrusting your perceptions more than anyone ought, believing you were born broken, stigmatised, obese and in distress, just over there in the corner will do fine thanks, and try not to mess up the carpet.

 

Thanks to working with the psychologists in recent years I'm ok expressing my anger now in ways that won't cause more harm, and I'm comfortable that it's not misdirected.  Once I was able to make sense of boundaries it became obvious to me when something is my problem and when it's someone else's.  I wish I'd had that clarity long ago.  It's so liberating - if it's my issue I can do something about it, and if not, well, it's not my issue 🙂

 

It's not that the past couple of decades have been a complete write off, I've learnt things I can use better now my frontal lobe is not so subdued, but really, I feel like I should've been where I am now in headspace 15-20 years ago.  But as always better late than never!

 

I especially resent the cog fog, fatigue, irritability and low mood that wds can bring while having to 'sing for my supper' in the rat race, especially when the big bosses have the knives out for shedding "workers".  Playing life on hard mode I suppose.

 

You're right though, I'm getting to the tail end of the taper and "are we there yet" is starting to come up more for me.  The log function of the curve is frustrating because it still looks like at least 2-3 years from here to find true baseline.  Even though 0.5mg of olanzapine is a small dose I still feel it's contributing to excess weight, and my metabolism has a lot of adapting to do.  I mean look at this, https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/10/zyprexa_and_fat.html - at what dosages do these hellish processes start reverting to normal human function?  I can intuit I'm part way through that, but intuition is all the info I have.  Note that even the blogger there is inferring things from reports that are not exactly made explicit in the studies themselves.

 

I'd also really like some data on what my serotonin receptors can expect in these dosage ranges.  Information on those two things would give me a bit of theory to bounce my experience of how fast I can sensibly taper off.

 

But yeah if I've learnt one thing from these excellent forums here, it's that it takes as long as it bloody takes!  And I'm not stopping here.

 

Cheers BM, hope you are keeping well.

 

Hayduke


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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hayduke

Found my way down to 0.5mg, was a bit of a cheeky extra cut but I'd just started holidays and a 5 day fast.  I felt a bit flat from the cut from 0.525 for a day or two in the following week, but without the stress and bother of work no biggie.  Then I checked my maths and realised I'd cut 18% in a month!  I had a simple weighting in my spreadsheet to defeat the asymptote so I would hit zero at some stage.  Too simple though, it was using a fixed %age of the base dose.  Heh.  This is why I don't share my spreadsheet!  I might have a play with some other weighting techniques.

 

Feeling pretty good after another week off, pity the chain gang resumes tomorrow.

 

Watching Another Country, where David Gulpilil explains simply and clearly how First Nations Australians' lives have been changed by white colonisation.  I can't help feeling theirs is the wiser culture, I'd recommend this film to anyone.


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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BadMedicine

0.5mg is another great milestone on the way to being off this poison! I have read a lot of historical threads of people coming off olanzapine and the majority say the most difficult part was between 2.5 and 1mg. It may be that you have done the hardest bit and you can get away with bigger cuts now you’re down so low. But wise to be careful as you don’t want to derail all your hard work and patience.


 

Sept 2018 - Nov 2018 200mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine. 

Nov 2018 - Jan 2018 200mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jan 2019 - mid Feb 2019 reduced sertraline from 200 - 50mg, 7.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

Feb 2019- Jun 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jun 2019 - Oct 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine.

Oct 2019 - Nov 2019 37.gmg sertraline, 39mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine.

Nov 2019 -Dec 2019 25mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine. Jan 2020 18.75mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Feb 2020 0mg sertraline, 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. May 2020 1.8mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Aug 2020 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

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hayduke

Cheers @BadMedicine

 

The 3rd & 4th cuts in this last set felt like the steeper taper I was doing from 5 to 2.5, and I could only tolerate that because I didn't have the pressures of work.  It was just too hard last time and I've gone slower.

 

I think that receptor crossover hump around 1.4 - 1.25 was probably the last big one.  I think it's mainly about serotonin now, the receptor occupancy curves are still quite steep here.  One grumpy day a couple of weeks ago I took 50mg 5-HTP and it didn't mess me up like it had on larger doses of olanzapine.  It seemed to buffer the cut without the usual edginess the next day.  I won't make it a habit though.

 

Going to hold an extra week or two at 0.5mg I think.  More crazy stress going on (some year eh!) and I'll just let it all settle for a bit. 

Hope you're going well with your hold there.


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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senseless
1 minute ago, hayduke said:

I think that receptor crossover hump around 1.4 - 1.25 was probably the last big one.  I think it's mainly about serotonin now, the receptor occupancy curves are still quite steep here.  One grumpy day a couple of weeks ago I took 50mg 5-HTP and it didn't mess me up like it had on larger doses of olanzapine.  It seemed to buffer the cut without the usual edginess the next day.  I won't make it a habit though.

 

What do you mean by receptor crossover hump? Are you saying olanzapine no longer effects dopamine receptors at these doses?


6.01.20 - 6.02.20: Seroquel/Quetiapine 25mg

7.02.20 - 13.02.20: Attempted CT ran into extreme rebound insomnia

13.02.20 - 04.07.20Reinstated and holding Seroquel/Quetiapine 13.5mg, 1mg Circadin 

Began Tapering of Seroquel

04.07.20 - Seroquel/Quetiapine 13mg, 2mg Circadin 12.07.20 - Seroquel/Quetiapine 12.5mg, 2mg Circadin 20.07.20 - Seroquel/Quetiapine 12mg, 2mg Circadin 28.07.20 - Seroquel/Quetiapine 11.5mg, 2mg Circadin 

02.08.20 - Seroquel/Quetiapine 11.mg, 2mg Circadin 06.08.20 - Seroquel/Quetiapine 10.5mg, 2mg Circadin 10.08.20 - Seroquel/Quetiapine 10mg, 2mg Circadin 15.08.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 9.5mg, 2mg Circadin

18.08.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 9mg, 2mg Circadin 23.08.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 8.5, 2mg Circadin 27.08.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 8mg, 2mg Circadin  31.08.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 7.75mg, 2mg Circadin 02.09.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 7.5mg, 2mg Circadin 06.09.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 7.25mg, 2mg Circadin 08.09.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 7mg, 2mg Circadin 12.09.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 6.75mg, 2mg Circadin 14.09.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 6.5mg, 2mg Circadin  19.09.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 6.25mg, 2mg Circadin 21.09.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 6mg, 2mg Circadin 24.09.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 5.75mg, 2mg Circadin

01.10.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 5.5mg, 2mg Circadin 03.10.20 Seroquel/Quetiapine 5.25mg, 2mg Circadin 05.10.2020 Seroquel/Quetiapine 5mg, 2mg Circadin 09.10.2020 Seroquel/Quetiapine 4.75mg, 2mg Circadin 12.10.2020 Seroquel/Quetiapine 4.5mg, 2mg Circadin 14.10.2020 Seroquel/Quetiapine 4.25mg, 2mg Circadin 17.10.2020 Seroquel/Quetiapine 4mg, 2mg Circadin 21.10.2020 Seroquel/Quetiapine 3.75mg, 2mg Circadin 24.10.2020 Seroquel/Quetiapine 3.5mg, 2mg Circadin

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hayduke
15 minutes ago, senseless said:

 

What do you mean by receptor crossover hump? Are you saying olanzapine no longer effects dopamine receptors at these doses?

 

Hi Senseless.  It affects them less.  It's a question of its affinity for certain receptors, and how when its fave type is "full" (for the purposes of the analogy), it will then prefer filling its second fave and so on.  Much better explanation here

 

My scribblings from the best data I could find (which was s**thouse, frankly) suggests D2RO at 0.5mg is going to be around 10%.  Serotonin curves are quite a lot steeper here (data so poor I can't even sensibly generate a crude interpolation) and I think that's where most of the taper 'action' is taking place for me at this stage, till 0.


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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hayduke
On 10/20/2020 at 4:54 AM, BadMedicine said:

0.5mg is another great milestone on the way to being off this poison! I have read a lot of historical threads of people coming off olanzapine and the majority say the most difficult part was between 2.5 and 1mg. It may be that you have done the hardest bit and you can get away with bigger cuts now you’re down so low. But wise to be careful as you don’t want to derail all your hard work and patience.

 

Timely words @BadMedicine

 

I missed my 0.5mg dose tonight, just fell asleep.  (I can't wait till I can just do that again).

 

0115:  wake and look at the clock

0140:  turn on the lights and decide to read.  wide awake

0150:  realise I'd missed my dose.  i'm preparing it now.

 

I normally average 6-8 hrs sleep a night during my taper.  Usually the lower end after a cut and the higher end when holding.

 

Histamine component, maybe?  Doesn't matter which too much, but a useful peek suggesting this is still rather too high a dosage to 'jump off'.

 

Night all 🙂


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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BadMedicine

@hayduke. Hope you got some sleep after taking the olanzapine. Reckon most likely histamine component leading to insomnia. It is a very potent histamine receptor antagonist as I’m sure you know. These drugs are so powerful aren’t they. I still remember taking my first dose of Mirtazapine also a potent histamine receptor antagonist. Knocked me right out!  Even though I take mirtazapine and olanzapine together I barely notice the sedating effect except if I try to lower the dose!

 

Unfortunately, seems there are no short cuts when it comes to getting off these drugs and dosages that are deemed inconsequential by the doctors are still having profound effects on our neurology. 
 

BM.


 

Sept 2018 - Nov 2018 200mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine. 

Nov 2018 - Jan 2018 200mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jan 2019 - mid Feb 2019 reduced sertraline from 200 - 50mg, 7.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

Feb 2019- Jun 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 7.5mg olanzapine.

Jun 2019 - Oct 2019 30mg mirtazapine, 50mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine.

Oct 2019 - Nov 2019 37.gmg sertraline, 39mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine.

Nov 2019 -Dec 2019 25mg sertraline, 30mg mirtazapine, 5mg olanzapine. Jan 2020 18.75mg sertraline, 5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Feb 2020 0mg sertraline, 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. May 2020 1.8mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine. Aug 2020 2.5mg olanzapine, 30mg mirtazapine.

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