hayduke: coming off olanzapine / Zyprexa

[NNhope]

I can't just cut the Trileptal. It will need to be taper as well. I want to get off the olanzapine first though.

[NNhope]

Hi hayduke, I saw that you use an adjustable pipette, I just bought one. Was wondering is it a lot easier to use then a manual pipette. I haven't started cutting yet but from just measuring out 50 ml with my 10ml pipette, it feels tedious and slow. I don't know if I'll be able to draw a dose quick enough.

[morgana]

hi @NNhope, i am not at that stage of tapering with a pipette and will also be asking the questions when the time comes next year, but at the moment i am using a measuring teaspoon they are 5mls so i just fill one of them up x5 with water and pour into my little jar...that is very quick, probably not as accurate at a pipette thou...i still need to buy one..and i do not know which one to get either...i know they come in glass and they can be pump style and another style i dont not know what to get...but let me know what you find works good for you..cheers morgana

[hayduke]

7 hours ago, NNhope said:

Hi hayduke, I saw that you use an adjustable pipette, I just bought one. Was wondering is it a lot easier to use then a manual pipette. I haven't started cutting yet but from just measuring out 50 ml with my 10ml pipette, it feels tedious and slow. I don't know if I'll be able to draw a dose quick enough.

 

Heaps easier, that's the whole idea.

 

For daily dosing I would always be wanting to use a pipette that can hold more than my current dosage.

 

If the volume of your solution/suspended compound is 25 ml, and you need to be taking 8.2 ml of that, don't mess around with a 5ml pipette.  (10-25 would work?)

 

Right now once a week I use a 25 ml pipette to measure out the filtered water base.  Then its the adjustable one to dose with.

 

From a 2.5 mg (mgai) pill when I pull out "0.240" on the dial I am (ought to be) getting 0.24mg (mgai) of the rotten molecule some marketing dimwit gave the ugly name of zyprexa.

You can always adjust the base amount of water to titrate from, too.  I never found changing this bothered my sleep for more than a night or two but others may find it like going from solid pill to suspension (i.e difficult).  I find 25ml convenient for a 2.5mg (mgai) pill.  Some use less.  You can adjust and work out the maths by say halves or quarters etc if you are comfortable doing that.  I did for a long while, and measured out by hand each night but these are way more convenient at bed time.

 

Cheers

[NNhope]

I bought a 25ml pipette as well but the pump on that wouldn't let me draw more than 15ml. I probably bought a bad one.

[NNhope]

@morgana I was wondering, when you switch over to liquid how long before symptom started to ramp up? I am at full liquid now for nearly a week. My sleep is broken but I still feel restore. Also yesterday night I woke up sweating through my clothes, did you have this and did it resolve.

[morgana]

hi @NNhope, i bought a pipette from the Chemist it was hopeless too, it kept just getting bubbles in it, so i gave up on it...it had a pump on it... it was a think a hard plastic one...no good! so i really don't know what to buy off the internet...i don't even know what you guys are talking about when yous say adjustable pipette and manual...lol

 

every time i have changed over to liquid i have had nothing but symptoms and bad ones...and they start the same night that i change it too, and doesnt let up for about a month.

and yes i wake up in a hot sweat and needing to urinate during the night..i go to bed at 9.30pm, wake up at 1am needing to urinate and have a hot sweat, again at 4am hot sweat n urinate and again about 7am, the times are like spot on now....and of course insomnia

 

give it time, sounds like you are taking the change pretty well, the hot sweats will eventually stop...

 

let me know how you go on getting a pipette as i will eventually have to look at buying one soon...

[hayduke]

On 8/6/2021 at 3:09 PM, NNhope said:

I bought a 25ml pipette as well but the pump on that wouldn't let me draw more than 15ml. I probably bought a bad one.

 

Might need a bigger pump, or consider a 10ml pipette.  I need to load my 25ml one in two goes, there's a release button on it that lets me move the plunger back down for the second draw.

@morgana this is the cheap and cheerful kind that I've been using https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/143635492949

[hayduke]

Quick update - had a bumpy week.  Quarantine this time is hard, because the only legally allowable company is going for a walk with one other person at a time.  You can nominate one person who can stay over and stuff, but can't change who it is (sounds a bit too churchy for public policy for my liking) and practically they'd need to live quite close and that's tricky right now.

Found myself drinking again over the weekend, and have decided to hit the brakes on it again today.  Have been doing well with the weight loss, energy levels and better health lately, and this is not a good time to upset the wd applecart.  Not beating myself up for it though.

Cheers

[Nomad]

2 hours ago, hayduke said:

Quick update - had a bumpy week.  Quarantine this time is hard, because the only legally allowable company is going for a walk with one other person at a time.  You can nominate one person who can stay over and stuff, but can't change who it is (sounds a bit too churchy for public policy for my liking) and practically they'd need to live quite close and that's tricky right now.

Found myself drinking again over the weekend, and have decided to hit the brakes on it again today.  Have been doing well with the weight loss, energy levels and better health lately, and this is not a good time to upset the wd applecart.  Not beating myself up for it though.

Cheers

I’m not even tapering yet because I’m still dealing with WD from my last taper over one year ago. I recently started drinking alcohol again after abstaining for nearly a year. Now my insomnia has come back with a vengeance. Even though I’m not tapering because my brain has kindled I believe the alcohol has brought back the insomnia. So just a warning to all that the effects of alcohol on a kindled nervous system can potentially be really dangerous. 

[Nomad]

1 minute ago, Nomad said:

I’m not even tapering yet because I’m still dealing with WD from my last taper over one year ago. I recently started drinking alcohol again after abstaining for nearly a year. Now my insomnia has come back with a vengeance. Even though I’m not tapering because my brain has kindled I believe the alcohol has brought back the insomnia. So just a warning to all that the effects of alcohol on a kindled nervous system can potentially be really dangerous. 

 

2 hours ago, hayduke said:

Quick update - had a bumpy week.  Quarantine this time is hard, because the only legally allowable company is going for a walk with one other person at a time.  You can nominate one person who can stay over and stuff, but can't change who it is (sounds a bit too churchy for public policy for my liking) and practically they'd need to live quite close and that's tricky right now.

Found myself drinking again over the weekend, and have decided to hit the brakes on it again today.  Have been doing well with the weight loss, energy levels and better health lately, and this is not a good time to upset the wd applecart.  Not beating myself up for it though.

Cheers

I’m glad your drinking hasn’t seemed to cause you too many problems.

[hayduke]

1 hour ago, Nomad said:

 

I’m glad your drinking hasn’t seemed to cause you too many problems.

 

Thanks.  I was brought up with it, I was passed beer and I'm sure whisky maybe around age 5 6 or 7.

I've been able to moderate my usage through most of my taper, especially after therapy and not needing to 'self medicate' with it. 

 

Now though, getting into the 'end game' of the taper is a really good time to be resetting that, as you're alluding to with the sensitised nervous system, and just letting my body enjoy as close to zero drug input for a while as it can.

The key thing at the moment is recognising this as drinking to cope, and not wanting to let that pattern back in the door.  Not like social drinking will be much of a temptation for a while ;-)

I hope you can settle into a steady taper before long @nomad.

[morgana]

thankyou @hayduke, there quite high tech and snazzy!..lol do i need to buy a whole pkt or can i just buy one?...do you go through them quite quickly like a syringe do you? 

cheers morgana

[hayduke]

5 minutes ago, morgana said:

thankyou @hayduke, there quite high tech and snazzy!..lol do i need to buy a whole pkt or can i just buy one?...do you go through them quite quickly like a syringe do you? 

cheers morgana

 

Just the one.  Calibrate it when it arrives and you're off to the races.  You pop the actual tube off after dosing rinse it out let it dry and you're done for the night.

 

I got the 5ml one since I was already under 0.5mg (so <5ml from 25) when I discovered these.  I think 10ml is as large as they go. 

You'll be wanting to dissolve a 2.5mg tablet IIRC...you could try dissolving that in 10ml then drawing out your dosage with a 10ml pipette.  That way the display on it would look like something like the percentage of the 2.5mg you were dosing with, which would be nice and easy to work with.

Edited August 9, 2021 by hayduke

[morgana]

thankyou @hayduke i will look into getting one as i get nearer to wanting to start tapering, at present i am no where near tapering yet...but the advice you gave me will be most appreciated for down the track.. thankyou....cheers

[hayduke]

Feeling better today, did a 30 km push bike ride yesterday and stayed up late house cleaning.  Good to get my energy back after a soggy weekend.

Looking at studying during quarantine cos there's not much else going on.

[morgana]

what are you thinking of studying @hayduke, how is your memory and learning skills? are they back to normal now.?...i cannot learn anything or remember anything still so i have given up all hope at the moment of studying and learning something...i tried learning bridge the card game but i couldnt remember anything so i gave up, hopefully in the future i will, i am just concentrating on doing my garden, as the for house cleaning well i will do all the walls and give it a full clean once i have finished putting mulch on my garden beds...cleaning is never ending but it is nice to have a nice clean house...

[hayduke]

Hey @morgana I do remember that difficulty you're talking about.  There are complex things I've learnt ok in the past that I wouldn't even bother trying to wrap my head around for the first time right now.

My cognition, emotional balance and memory are all much improved post EMDR. 

Though not perfect (whose is?), and will hopefully improve post taper, but the work I want to bridge to is something I'm already partly familiar with so that helps. 

 

Though I'm actually wondering if the practical component of the course will be running very soon, since unfortunately it looks like the Delta horse is pretty much jumping the fence about now.  Ugh

[hayduke]

Taper update.  I made a larger cut from three weeks at 0.24mg to 0.21mg as a look into an approach to the 'end game'.

 

It was tolerable, just, but I felt a bit on edge in some tougher social interactions after two days and thought I might take the edge back off.  Last night I nudged back up to 0.22mg and I think I'll keep coming down in the small increments for the moment. 

[Venkat]

Happy to hear you are doing so well @hayduke . Hope all the adverse effects of olanzapine are gone for good now. 

[hayduke]

Thanks @Venkat.  I think that will take years yet, honestly.  I'm not even at zero yet. 

 

But all the way down the taper, despite all the discomforts and frustrations of the wds, the baseline just keeps noticeably getting better and better.  Always worth remembering when you're having a tough day!

[hayduke]

Quick update:  I realised after I'd taken my 0.22mg on Saturday that it was the eighth dose from that bottle.

 

As good as my fridge is, it doesn't make a difference.  The seventh dose tastes the same as usual and seems effective.  Push it beyond that week though and there's an off taste, and probably not a good dose from it either.  I'm now marking it in my calendar so I don't forget again.

 

I also went for a covid test last week, pretty much a formality this time.  We have to self isolate at home until we get a result.  Previous ones have taken 12-24 hrs, no big deal.  This time I spent 3 1/2 days cooped up alone in my house unable to get to the shops, exercise, or see anyone at all!

 

I felt really crap afterwards and realised I'd had a lot of adrenaline and cortisol, my brain felt fried when I finally got my result and could go for a walk.  After a few days indoors it felt like psychological abuse.  It was longer than the maximum period of 72 hrs they'd advised, and they didn't contact me then either.  I had no indication of when it might end, which was the most stressful aspect of the whole thing.

 

The test facility had been swamped as the Delta variety has now got out of hand on the eastern seabord here.

 

I would absolutely still recommend getting tested - but before you get locked in, make sure you have a good idea from your community and the facility how long it might be - bunking down for 24 hrs is so different to running out of bread etc on day 3 - and it's worth asking around who in your local test operators has quick results, too.

 

[hayduke]

Feeling a lot better over the last week.  Down to 0.20mg now and that's ok.

 

Noticing I am comfortable missing supplements some days lately whereas before it was a must, daily.  Good to check in with that every 2 or 3 days though, hemp and magnesium are still proving vital.

 

Also discovered non alcoholic beer.  Surprisingly acceptable, and even satisfying in a way.  No more "I want chilli tonight but I won't because I can't resist a beer with it"

 

Cheers

[hayduke]

I've been rereading Toxic Parents by Susan Forward, which is super validating.  Later in the book I realised more  upheaval of horrible things is underway.  So I'm having some waves of derealisation and anxiety, and of course revulsion and anger.  And fatigue.

 

The good thing is I've got the hang of this process now, so it's loads of self care as I work through another big batch of trauma.  I think there will be EMDR next week.

 

It's uncomfortable and unpleasant now, but once again I'd rather have a good big vomit and get it out then feel better on the other side than have this crap gurgling around in my psyche/stomach dragging me down like a low grade infection.

 

Time in nature, rest, good company (if virtual) and food are good and grounding.

 

I did a great one hour guided meditation this afternoon which really turned the DR around and quelled the anxiety.  I felt super tender afterwards but attuned and much more relaxed.

 

[morgana]

sorry to hear you are going through this @hayduke, but its good to know you have a session with your Therapist next week in order to deal with it..as for me i do not think about much of the bad stuff that has happened to me, like i said i find it hard to remember....i am just wondering now that your getting so low on the taper do you think reading the book and having more of the past, not just remembered,  but also relived..emotionally .that is causing the DP/DR  which is affecting you now so late in your taper....if it is i will one day have alot to deal with emotionally when the time comes....i know being on large doses of drugs, therapy just doesnt help  but do you think as you are nearly off the drug, things are triggering you that in the past did not...

[hayduke]

2 minutes ago, morgana said:

sorry to hear you are going through this @hayduke, but its good to know you have a session with your Therapist next week in order to deal with it..as for me i do not think about much of the bad stuff that has happened to me, like i said i find it hard to remember....i am just wondering now that your getting so low on the taper do you think reading the book and having more of the past, not just remembered,  but also relived..emotionally .that is causing the DP/DR  which is affecting you now so late in your taper....if it is i will one day have alot to deal with emotionally when the time comes....i know being on large doses of drugs, therapy just doesnt help  but do you think as you are nearly off the drug, things are triggering you that in the past did not...

 

Thanks Morgana.  I've moved this convo back to my thread and just left the relevant stub of info over in the DP/DR topic.

 

Yeah, definitely.  It's the nature of (C/)PTSD for that stuff to be hanging around and hitting the limbic system. 

 

It's actually better to become conscious of it, because as unbearable as it is for the instant, once it's conscious again and you have a good therapist, you only have to relive it that one last time and your brain can successfully pass it on to your memory.

 

You might find Bessel van der Kolk's book worth a read, I think it's essential.

 

Because your brain couldn't handle the traumatic experiences (especially as kids), parts of it literally go offline.  When you get triggered again (the Forward book kind of does this on purpose in a later chapter, like an archeology dig, or a dentist going into an abscess) those parts of the brain can shut down again.

 

I've been more than confident for a while now that what was attributed as 'psychosis' for me was actually trauma coming up, this happening, and my family not dealing with it (see the bind here) and in particular my mother just injecting more anxiety into the situation (Forward again, Ch 3)

 

I'm still in awe (the bad kind) that the shrink my mother took me to didn't peg this as PTSD straight away, especially since I had been raped recently.  His misdiagnosis, refusal to direct me to appropriate counselling/therapy, and drugging came close enough to doing me in, frankly, and not by my own hand.

 

Now that I have the right support, and experience, when these things come up I know not only can I get through them ok with a bit of TLC, but I will be much better off after processing it.  It's actually the path to healing...sometimes ya just gotta "bite the bullet".

 

I've been very conscious all the way through the taper that these snarls would have to be faced down, and this is why I keep suggesting to traumatised people to find themselves a good trauma specialist clinical psychologist.  Not only has it opened the road up safely, you would be amazed whose faces you will see on those demons before you kick them down the drain.

 

It's less a process of being accidentally triggered - that used to happen way more, and more blindly - but the lower the dosage, the more access you have to your emotions and the more of this sort of work becomes practical.  I picked up the book again because I wanted to pull on those threads and have the spew :-)

[morgana]

i will look into the book you mentioned @hayduke and wish you all the best with dealing with it....in a constructive way....warm regards morgana

[hayduke]

3 hours ago, hayduke said:

It's uncomfortable and unpleasant now, but once again I'd rather have a good big vomit and get it out then feel better on the other side than have this crap gurgling around in my psyche/stomach dragging me down like a low grade infection.

 

And just came down with food poisoning to boot.  Go Go Mind-Body connection :-)

[Rrsfc]

I am sorry you suffered so much @hayduke, I am glad you were able to find a path to recovery. You still have many things to enjoy in life, I hope you can overcome the last obstacles on your taper and that everything goes smoothly for you now, you deserve it so much! Thank you for posting your story and keeping it updated, I don't always comment but I always read your posts and I am sure they help many people to have hope.

[Venkat]

Hi @hayduke now that you don't have to worry much about tapering, you should be able to sort out those traumatic things once and for all. You have it in you. Good luck. 

[hayduke]

Thank you @morgana@Rrsfcand @Venkat

 

It seems like a good time to be doing this sort of excavation work - there just aren't the usual social demands.  It would be nicer if I could hang out with friends more easily, that's the flip side.  But it will be good to have it out of the way.

 

@morgana I did my first round of EMDR around 2.1mg, roughly when I joined here.  I think it's worked out well over the subsequent tapering.  I am holding again now while I process this, which I would suggest to anyone doing this kind of therapy.

 

@Rrsfc how's your taper going?  Are you still thinking to just stay at 2.5mg?

 

@Venkat it's still the full tapering experience all the way down to zero I think, then bearing a lot of it in mind until the body finds homeostasis again.  It will be bloody nice to get there, but as at all stages, it teaches us patience!  How are you getting on, looking after yourself ok?

 

[Venkat]

Thanks @hayduke doing just ok.

[Rrsfc]

@hayduke I am doing well, planning on starting my taper in October when I feel stable. At the moment I am having so much change in my life, things have to calm down a bit before I start, but I plan on giving it a try. I feel more prepared now than I was last time, I have more chances of success. I have to take it really slow though. 

[hayduke]

Make sure everyone brings you nice food and keeps you comfy @Venkat :-)

 

@Rrsfc great, sounds like you're setting up a sound base to start a taper.

[Venkat]

Sure hayduke, thanks. 

[Josef]

Hey Hayduke, how are you?

I wanted to ask if you've had night sweats? Brain tension? heart palpitations?