DJim: CT mirtazapine

[DJim]

Topic title: The basic symptom i had during all the attempts to CT from mirtazapin was dyspnoea. I am very disappointed i found only one case in the search

 

What is there to do? Noone can help me. The drs and med stuff dont 'give a crap'...

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

Hi DJim and welcome to SA,

 

So that we can assist you we need to know more about your drug history.  Please post telling us more about your situation.

 

Please create your drug signature using the following format.   Keep it simple.  NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 

This is your own introductions topic where your can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.

[DJim]

For the last 2 years (except  1 month july 2017 ct):

130mg remeron (per week) -mon to thurs 15mg friday 30mg- that is about 4-5 pills

Sth johns wort 1200μg in hyperikin once /twice a month (lamberts)

Rhodiola rosea once a week

Aswgardhia once a week

Prozak once a month 1/2 dose.

 

 

Before this from april 2011 to december 2012 Amitriptyline, 1 pil per day

From jan 2013 to dec 2014  Doxepin1 pill per day

Jan 2015 to september 2015 no AD, only some zanax 0,5mg and valerian root.

Sep 2015 to dec 2015 remeron 85mg per week (mon to thurs 7,5 mg, fr. 30mg sat 15mg

Jan 2016 to july 2916 130mg remeron per week (so as abobe)

July 2016 CT

Aug 2016 to july 2017 remeron 130 per week

Jul 2017 ct

Aug 2017 to today 130 mg  remeron

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Are you currently only taking Remeron?  If no, what else are you taking, dose and when (daily?)

 

Q:  Are you taking Remeron every day?

[DJim]

 

130mg remeron (per week) -mon to thurs 15mg friday 30mg- that is about 4-5 pills

Sth johns wort 1200μg in hyperikin once /twice a month (lamberts)

Rhodiola rosea once a week

Aswgardhia once a week

[eymen23]

DJim,

 

Sorry to hear that you have struggled when stopping Remeron. 

 

You are taking a very interesting cocktail of supplements, and your drug dosages and timings are unusual as well.

 

Are you taking Remeron on Saturday and Sunday? Are you taking 30mg on Friday to ‘hold you over’ until Monday? It is much easier on the nervous system to take a consistent dose each day at the same time. 

 

Why are you taking supplements once a week or month? St John’s Wort isn’t advised when taking antidepressant type medications, so I would consider stopping that immediately. 

 

Rhodiola Rosea may inhibit monoamine oxidase and effect neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine. It’s also a well known adaptogen and can be stimulating in some users. What effect does it have on you? Why do you take it only once a week?

 

Ashwagandha is another adaptogen. Why do you take two adaptogens? Do you take them on the same day?

 

Apologies for all the questions, but I think there is plenty more information we need to understand about the supplements you’re taking and what effect they’re having on you. I suspect the best thing will be for you to start taking a consistent dosage of Remeron at the same time every single day such as 15mg, and to drop the supplements one by one. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by eymen23

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, DJim said:

Prozak once a month 1/2 dose. 

 

Q:  Are you still taking Prozac?

[ChessieCat]

As eymen has mentioned it is better to take the same dose every day.  The brain likes consistency and skipping days is not recommended.

 

I, too, suggest that you stop taking the other supplements, and the occasional Prozac, if you are still taking that.

 

After being on a daily dose of Remeron for 1 or 2 months you could then start to taper.

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

This topic explains how to get the dose you need:  Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

When tapering a psychiatric drug you will need to listen to your body and symptoms.  When we taper using SA's protocol we may experience mild withdrawal symptoms.  However when the drug is taken away too quickly or cold turkeyed we can get withdrawal symptoms which are more than mild:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

This topic has some helpful information:  are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

[ChessieCat]

Here's some additional information:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

[DJim]

I thank you for the answrs ChessieCat and eymen23,

 

I m not sure how to start the tapering program.

I have trouble sleeping, thats why i use 30mg mirtazapin in the day i have more time to spend sleeping. I also feel very dizzy during work, because of mirtazapin and lack of sleep ( it doesnt help me sllep during the working week).

That s why i use the adaptogens, (i agree that rhodiola has some effect on sepotonin , it makes me more dizzy.But it really helps with anheiety also.

I dont take prozak instead i use snt jonns wort every now and then to releife me from dizzsines and to help me concentrate (i think is very good at it).

It is a RMAOI and i havnt had any side effects from it.

But i use it very rare.

I think i'll start with a 10% cut on the mirtazapin and keep it there for as long as it takes.Thank you again.

 

[eymen23]

DJim,

 

We wouldn’t recommend making any cuts to your Remeron dosage until you get into a consistent pattern of taking the same dose at the same time every day.

 

It could well be that the varying dosages/timings of the different drugs is contributing towards your sleeping issues and anxiety.