Wesofthewest: I’m in the thick of it, could use advice

[Cocopuffz17]

7 hours ago, Wesofthewest said:

This kind of stuff makes me think... it’s a conspiracy theory but what if SSRIs damage the stomach? That would explain why people have crazy mental issues after going off; no longer able to create dopamine and serotonin, and no more recycling. My case is a terrible example, because I’m absolutely sure my problems began before I went on Prozac. I just wanted to throw my theory out there lol! At the very least they need to be studied much much more. 

 

They absolutely do. I had to take an iron/b vitamin supplement for 8 years on Paxil, if I didn't take it I slept 14 hrs a day or more...I literally would pass out after work. After I came off of the medication I no longer had to take it and was able to have energy with none of the symptoms like before. 

 

These medications act like PPI's on the stomach. The proton pump is what pumps stomach acid into your stomach. I came off paxil at a rapid pace and when I hit 0 I puked for a day straight. This was caused by a pH difference in my stomach after over 11 years of it being downregulated by the medication. I also talked to a vet who prescribes the exact same SSRI's to dogs and they have the exact same problem if they come off the medication too fast. Odd that I got this info from a vet and my psych doc downright denies it.

 

I also had a stomach biopsy with was positive for H.pylori(bad bacteria in your stomach). I did not get the results for over a year and the GI specialist(he said there is no way the body will get rid of it , you need antibiotics to get rid of it) who took it insisted that I take 2 rounds of antibiotics for over 3 weeks. I wanted a second opinion and got a test done to confirm it and I no longer had it. So what changed? In that year I came off paxil and my stomach acid returned to normal(enabling my body to properly defend and not allow this unwanted bacteria to grow in my stomach) and did not let this bacterial overgrowth continue. It all makes sense why I was nutrient deficient on the medication as you said the body is not properly breaking down foods to absorb them. Thus why supplementation helped while on paxil. 

 

Stomach pH testing should be standard issue on these medications. It is not because it would prove one of the many horrible effects these medications have on the body. Proper stomach acid pH is critical to breaking down foods into the AA you need to build your body. 

 

Stay strong! Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed :)! 

[Wesofthewest]

8 hours ago, Cocopuffz17 said:

 

They absolutely do. I had to take an iron/b vitamin supplement for 8 years on Paxil, if I didn't take it I slept 14 hrs a day or more...I literally would pass out after work. After I came off of the medication I no longer had to take it and was able to have energy with none of the symptoms like before. 

 

These medications act like PPI's on the stomach. The proton pump is what pumps stomach acid into your stomach. I came off paxil at a rapid pace and when I hit 0 I puked for a day straight. This was caused by a pH difference in my stomach after over 11 years of it being downregulated by the medication. I also talked to a vet who prescribes the exact same SSRI's to dogs and they have the exact same problem if they come off the medication too fast. Odd that I got this info from a vet and my psych doc downright denies it.

 

I also had a stomach biopsy with was positive for H.pylori(bad bacteria in your stomach). I did not get the results for over a year and the GI specialist(he said there is no way the body will get rid of it , you need antibiotics to get rid of it) who took it insisted that I take 2 rounds of antibiotics for over 3 weeks. I wanted a second opinion and got a test done to confirm it and I no longer had it. So what changed? In that year I came off paxil and my stomach acid returned to normal(enabling my body to properly defend and not allow this unwanted bacteria to grow in my stomach) and did not let this bacterial overgrowth continue. It all makes sense why I was nutrient deficient on the medication as you said the body is not properly breaking down foods to absorb them. Thus why supplementation helped while on paxil. 

 

Stomach pH testing should be standard issue on these medications. It is not because it would prove one of the many horrible effects these medications have on the body. Proper stomach acid pH is critical to breaking down foods into the AA you need to build your body. 

 

Stay strong! Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed :)! 

No ****. It took me this long to figure out something was wrong with my stomach, they really should be testing people. I gained 100+ pounds on meds, and felt worse than I ever have. My doctors solution: let’s go ahead and take you off! 2 weeks! It’s like we’re the guinea pigs in a twisted experiment. All because I was depressed. 
 

I actually suspected some kind of bacterial infection, as I was taking probiotics to try to combat that. I’m sure the hcl tablets will help take care of that. Very cool that I’m not the only one who’s come to that conclusion. I do think I am going to be doing much better, and I hope the same for you as well! 

[Cocopuffz17]

35 minutes ago, Wesofthewest said:

No ****. It took me this long to figure out something was wrong with my stomach, they really should be testing people. I gained 100+ pounds on meds, and felt worse than I ever have. My doctors solution: let’s go ahead and take you off! 2 weeks! It’s like we’re the guinea pigs in a twisted experiment. All because I was depressed. 
 

I actually suspected some kind of bacterial infection, as I was taking probiotics to try to combat that. I’m sure the hcl tablets will help take care of that. Very cool that I’m not the only one who’s come to that conclusion. I do think I am going to be doing much better, and I hope the same for you as well! 

 Yea, that’s tough. I did not gain weight but boy did my immune system go crazy and cause numerous autoimmune diseases. The doctors don’t admit it so no treatment in the proper direction is happening. Although the UK has admitted long term effects of these drugs which will start to shift the mindset as the evidence is overwhelming. 
 

That is awesome! I had to make nutritional changes to support a good microbiome and that is the main variable in this attempt at getting off of the medication this time. As you can see I tried 3 times before and failed. I thought I was on the drug for life. 

[Wesofthewest]

7 hours ago, Cocopuffz17 said:

 Yea, that’s tough. I did not gain weight but boy did my immune system go crazy and cause numerous autoimmune diseases. The doctors don’t admit it so no treatment in the proper direction is happening. Although the UK has admitted long term effects of these drugs which will start to shift the mindset as the evidence is overwhelming. 
 

That is awesome! I had to make nutritional changes to support a good microbiome and that is the main variable in this attempt at getting off of the medication this time. As you can see I tried 3 times before and failed. I thought I was on the drug for life. 

Who knows if the US will ever admit these drugs have bad side effects. Judging by the general rate of progress In this country, I’m guessing 30 years. Lol. 

[Cocopuffz17]

19 minutes ago, Wesofthewest said:

Who knows if the US will ever admit these drugs have bad side effects. Judging by the general rate of progress In this country, I’m guessing 30 years. Lol. 

There is always resistance when change happens. But the evidence is overwhelming. People will keep coming forward and it will have to change. 

[Wesofthewest]

Continuing to improve. It’s become clear the majority of my issues are iron-related, and getting my iron/Ferratin status to improve is difficult and very gradual. Continuing all the other things I am doing, but now taking iron at two times during the night with a little hcl to aid absorption. If I take iron without hcl, I don’t seem to absorb it well and it causes me to break out with pimples on my face and hives on hands and feet. With hcl, no such problems occur. Day by day I am feeling better, which is something I’ve said many times before but this time it’s less hopeful and more real. Hoping I don’t get coronavirus, so I’m trying to stay home as much as possible so I can continue to recover!

[Wesofthewest]

90% sure I’ve found out I have autoimmune gastritis. It explains everything for me, and I am doing better with oral treatment. One would think I would go to the doctor and get checked out but it’s not that simple for me. I lost my job recently and am low on money, so can’t really afford a co pay even to go see them. Plus, I have a history of “mental illness”, which makes it hard for doctors to believe me when I say “I think this was caused by my stomach problems”. So that is on the back burner for now, but I will eventually get a biopsy done. Oral treatment with iron and b12 is hard because they need to be taken on an empty stomach, and my stomach takes about 12 hours to empty after I eat a regular meal. Regular people it’s more like 4 Hours. I’ve decided that route is too inefficient and tedious, and I don’t like fasting all day, so I am going to use intramuscular injections instead. Luckily, I was a pre med student and I’ve grown up with two nurse parents, so I know how to safely do this, no problem. Intramuscular is pretty easy. I’ve obtained iron dextran and liquid b12 both suitable for this purpose, and will start doing that soon, daily for a week and then weekly. I know it sounds extreme, but It is completely safe, same as they’d do at the doctor. I am desperate to get my mental/physical health back on track, but confident that bypassing the stomach will solve my problems with replenishing iron and b12. If only I lived in Canada, I would probably already be receiving professional treatment. The US only wants to classify, prescribe meds, and send a bill. On to better days!

 

note: I do not recommend anyone tries what I am doing here. The odds that you have autoimmune gastritis are extremely low. I am a rare case, and I also have some training, so just don’t try giving yourself injections of random things if you’re looking for answers. I spent a long time diagnosing myself before I ever thought about doing that. 

[Cocopuffz17]

I developed something similar. It was never diagnosed I had to supplement for 8 years or I could not function. These drugs mess with your GI tract and reduce your stomach acid. This obviously is very detrimental to being able to absorb nutrients from the food you eat. I am finally having regular bowel movements in my body. Literally the first time in over 12 years. 11 years on medications and 1 year since coming off of it.  I know the Dr.Gundry lifestyle is the main reason why I was able to heal my gut after destroying it with this medication . These low lectin foods that reduce inflammation in the body and promote healing are the foods I have been eating for over 14 months. https://drgundry.com/dr-gundrys-print-friendly-yes-no-lists/

[Wesofthewest]

On 4/10/2020 at 1:09 PM, Cocopuffz17 said:

I developed something similar. It was never diagnosed I had to supplement for 8 years or I could not function. These drugs mess with your GI tract and reduce your stomach acid. This obviously is very detrimental to being able to absorb nutrients from the food you eat. I am finally having regular bowel movements in my body. Literally the first time in over 12 years. 11 years on medications and 1 year since coming off of it.  I know the Dr.Gundry lifestyle is the main reason why I was able to heal my gut after destroying it with this medication . These low lectin foods that reduce inflammation in the body and promote healing are the foods I have been eating for over 14 months. https://drgundry.com/dr-gundrys-print-friendly-yes-no-lists/

That’s good you’re having regular digestive function. Something I always noticed as a teenager but never thought much of is I wouldn’t have a bowel movement for 3, 4 days at a time. I told my friends about it and they were like wtf. But yeah as I figure out things everything kinda makes sense now. Food sits in my stomach for the entire day if I eat a large meal so no wonder I’d have slow digestion. I will have to check that out, unfortunately my diet is really sh*tty and I don’t put a lot of effort into it. Always room to improve a little though.

[Cocopuffz17]

On 4/15/2020 at 4:19 PM, Wesofthewest said:

That’s good you’re having regular digestive function. Something I always noticed as a teenager but never thought much of is I wouldn’t have a bowel movement for 3, 4 days at a time. I told my friends about it and they were like wtf. But yeah as I figure out things everything kinda makes sense now. Food sits in my stomach for the entire day if I eat a large meal so no wonder I’d have slow digestion. I will have to check that out, unfortunately my diet is really sh*tty and I don’t put a lot of effort into it. Always room to improve a little though.

 

That sounds so familiar to me as well when I was a teenager. Definitely check it out!!! That is the right attitude.... little by little and the changes will be amazing

 

Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed

[Wesofthewest]

I was a bit cavalier in assuming I needed iron so badly. Got a lot of tests done recently, iron and hemoglobin and all that is fine. B12 is low, more tests are being done to determine the cause. Most likely autoimmune gastritis causing b12 deficiency. My symptoms have subsided greatly upon regular b12 shots. Don’t go giving yourself shots unless you need it, I gave myself iron and it was pointless and stupid of me. It’s always smart to get tests done to help you determine whether you need this or that. If I would have been more adamant about getting tested for b12 I wouldn’t have had to go through any of what I did, but it’s been a character building experience if there ever was one. This will probably be my last post on here because I am on the road to recovery, I wish everyone well in attaining optimal health!

[Armorall]

Best of luck to you! Please please don't let this be your last post! Come back and write a success story in the success story section when you feel up to it! 

[Altostrata]

Because you're feeling better, I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol ☼ to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

[Wesofthewest]

B12 level was fine, but still I was struggling, basically I think I am dealing with depression once again. I am taking Prozac 40mg again and so far so good. Due to my stomach problems, it was tricky to find a way to get good absorption when I took this stuff, which is what I’ve been working on recently. Fluoxetine is Lipophilic, and needs to be dissolved in fat to be absorbed through the gut. However, it is also water soluble. So in my case (gastritis) my stomach has a hard time breaking down fats, and naturally I would take my pills with water, and with a lack of available lipids the drug was not getting absorbed. I figured out I can bypass this problem by opening my capsules and mixing the powder in a few tablespoons of peanut butter. Upon mixing, it quickly dissolves in the oil. So I eat it like that (tastes normal) and the effect is much more pronounced and I feel like I’m actually getting a full dose. I’m thinking I may even start taking my drug in sandwich form because that would be funny to me. Once the medicine is dissolved in the oil, since it’s lipophilic it will not get dissolved in any water in the stomach or gut and will be absorbed efficiently. 
 

im not sure at this point how long I will take it this time, but maybe for a couple of years and then I may try to taper. It depends on whether my depression gets a lot better. 
 

by the way, I recommend the peanut butter method if your drug is lipophilic and you feel like it’s not working too well for you. It could be an absorption problem. I think almost all ssris are lipophilic but it’s worth a Google if you’re not sure. I know this is a website for going off drugs but I didn’t feel like I had a choice, and want to keep this updated regardless. 

[Wesofthewest]

Doing better first week of Prozac. It is working better for me than it ever did before because I am maximizing the absorption. I can only assume from my experience that it was poor before. Plan to keep going with it and hopefully fully pull myself out of depression. Then I have to decide if I want to take it long term or try without again. 

[Altostrata]

Good luck with your new regimen.

[Wesofthewest]

I really have thought a lot about why so many people have bad experiences on antidepressants. I think quite a lot of people don’t get real relief from depression and are left looking for answers after they give up on drugs. For me, it didn’t work very well at first bc I have an autoimmune stomach condition, and thus had trouble absorbing the drugs in powder form. This can be easily fixed by using a oil to dissolve the medicine in before taking. But this got me thinking, what if absorption could have something to do with the fact that many people start out feeling a bit better on ADs but after a certain amount of time “poop out”. Do ADs have some kind of self limiting effect on absorption? I think it’s possible. It could be because of increased gut serotonin activity, which speeds up gastric emptying time and transit time. This could lead to a paradoxical effect where higher serum AD would lead to lower absorption potential. Since ADs need to be dissolved in fats to be absorbed, the stomach needs enough time to break down dietary fats (which takes the longest out of any food component) and if the stomach empties too fast there may not be enough free lipids to pick up the drug. Its also possible that these medications could somehow effect gastric acid secretion. If they lowered this, this could also cause limited absorption, because acidity is needed to break down fats. I think this kind of thing needs to be studied more, because I’m not sure this information is available. 

[Cocopuffz17]

2 minutes ago, Wesofthewest said:

I really have thought a lot about why so many people have bad experiences on antidepressants. I think quite a lot of people don’t get real relief from depression and are left looking for answers after they give up on drugs. For me, it didn’t work very well at first bc I have an autoimmune stomach condition, and thus had trouble absorbing the drugs in powder form. This can be easily fixed by using a oil to dissolve the medicine in before taking. But this got me thinking, what if absorption could have something to do with the fact that many people start out feeling a bit better on ADs but after a certain amount of time “poop out”. Do ADs have some kind of self limiting effect on absorption? I think it’s possible. It could be because of increased gut serotonin activity, which speeds up gastric emptying time and transit time. This could lead to a paradoxical effect where higher serum AD would lead to lower absorption potential. Since ADs need to be dissolved in fats to be absorbed, the stomach needs enough time to break down dietary fats (which takes the longest out of any food component) and if the stomach empties too fast there may not be enough free lipids to pick up the drug. Its also possible that these medications could somehow effect gastric acid secretion. If they lowered this, this could also cause limited absorption, because acidity is needed to break down fats. I think this kind of thing needs to be studied more, because I’m not sure this information is available. 

 

 

You hit the nail on the head in my  opinion. I struggled getting nutrients from my foods that I was eating. It was directly related to these drugs acting like PPI's and effecting the stomach acid. So my food was not being broken down properly and like you said the drug does not get broken down properly either and I believe that is why people hit "poop out". This is also critical for your body's defense as well. I had H.Pylori growing in my stomach and was told by the GI specialist the only way to get rid of it is by medication. I did not listen to him and after I came off my medication my stomach acid went back to its normal level and I got tested for that bacteria and I did not have it. Also not having the proper stomach acid levels make you more susceptible to getting leaky gut and that leads to a whole plethora of issues.  

[Wesofthewest]

13 minutes ago, Cocopuffz17 said:

 

 

You hit the nail on the head in my  opinion. I struggled getting nutrients from my foods that I was eating. It was directly related to these drugs acting like PPI's and effecting the stomach acid. So my food was not being broken down properly and like you said the drug does not get broken down properly either and I believe that is why people hit "poop out". This is also critical for your body's defense as well. I had H.Pylori growing in my stomach and was told by the GI specialist the only way to get rid of it is by medication. I did not listen to him and after I came off my medication my stomach acid went back to its normal level and I got tested for that bacteria and I did not have it. Also not having the proper stomach acid levels make you more susceptible to getting leaky gut and that leads to a whole plethora of issues.  

The idea that ADs could inhibit gastric acid makes a lot of sense to me. That would easily explain the poop out effect. If so it wouldn’t be a matter of deug resistance, it would be caused by lower/inconsistent absorption. As we know, you need consistent dosing of ADs for many weeks/months to see real benefits (if it works). But I know firsthand the detriment of having low gastric acid, as I’ve dealt with it for years. It’s harmful in more ways than just decreased AD absorption. Like you mentioned, nutrient uptake is effected by this, especially vitamin b12. Vitamin b12 deficiency is very bad for neurological health, and I think it is what primarily caused me to become depressed in the first place. Vitamin b12 is necessary for the body to make Sam-E, which is needed to maintain proper neurotransmitter levels in the brain. B12 is also needed for proper red blood cell formation. If AD’s do in fact cause low gastric acid, they could not only be limited their own absorption, but they could be causing b12 deficiency or other nutrient deficiencies as well. Perhaps this is a possible explanation for why people feel so much worse than before when they fail on ADs. 

[Cocopuffz17]

3 minutes ago, Wesofthewest said:

The idea that ADs could inhibit gastric acid makes a lot of sense to me. That would easily explain the poop out effect. If so it wouldn’t be a matter of deug resistance, it would be caused by lower/inconsistent absorption. As we know, you need consistent dosing of ADs for many weeks/months to see real benefits (if it works). But I know firsthand the detriment of having low gastric acid, as I’ve dealt with it for years. It’s harmful in more ways than just decreased AD absorption. Like you mentioned, nutrient uptake is effected by this, especially vitamin b12. Vitamin b12 deficiency is very bad for neurological health, and I think it is what primarily caused me to become depressed in the first place. Vitamin b12 is necessary for the body to make Sam-E, which is needed to maintain proper neurotransmitter levels in the brain. B12 is also needed for proper red blood cell formation. If AD’s do in fact cause low gastric acid, they could not only be limited their own absorption, but they could be causing b12 deficiency or other nutrient deficiencies as well. Perhaps this is a possible explanation for why people feel so much worse than before when they fail on ADs. 

Yes, I totally agree. There was a span of 8 years while I was on my medication that I would just come home from work and crash. I had so many blood tests and doctor appts and nothing came back of concern. I ended up taking an iron supplement with b vitamins in it. This solved my chronic fatigue issue and now that I know more it makes so much sense why that worked. 

[Wesofthewest]

after not doing especially well with fluoxetine, i am now taking citalopram 40mg. fluoxetine seemed to not be absorbed consistently for me and i think this is due to first pass effect. it would seem to not absorb at all if i had a lot of caffeine, and absorb less if i had a lot of sugar. no idea why, but like i said i think it has to do with the liver and first pass. 

 

then i found out citalopram is an ssri that doesnt have the first pass effect. it is more bioavailable than fluoxetine and isnt affected by anything else i ingest. i started it about two days ago and it has been a roller coaster. i almost had a panic attack the first time i took it (got paranoid for no reason) but felt better soon after. this is the strongest experience i have ever had on an ssri. on the third dose now i am definitely improving. i still am using peanut butter as a substrate to take my meds, because it works well for me and may protect against lack of absorption due to low stomach acid. i will keep updated how the celexa does for me.