bunchesofoats: starting 2nd citalopram taper

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, bunchesofoats said:

Planning on spending 2 months @ 10mg, first month to get to the dosage of only 10mg, 2nd month to get used to liquid form of 10mg because likely metabolic differences between tablet and dissolved forms.

 

When switching forms of drug it is generally best to do a cross over which is gentler on the nervous system.  A suggested way of doing this is taking the following combinations for 3-7 days:

 

3/4 + 1/4, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4

 

Also do not make a reduction and it is best not to change anything else at the same time.

[bunchesofoats]

Sounds good @ChessieCat. Will add to plan.

 

Current supplements:

Vitamin D - prescribed 2000IU but too much interferes with sleep, so I alternate 2000IU and 1000IU. Have been taking 1000IU for the past 6mo and was surprised my levels were still low when tested.

Omega 3 - Trader Joe's brand. Have heard if it's not refrigerated it doesn't actually contain anything, don't know how true that is. 

ZMA - at bedtime (zinc aspartate, magnesium, b6), definitely feel my body relax after taking

[bunchesofoats]

Day 119 - citalopram 10% liquid taper

 

Just dropped another 10% a few days ago and have been feeling pretty good thankfully. Making slow and steady changes to my life, making effort whenever I can and being compassionate when I'm not feeling well, and paying attention have helped me tremendously. Have attached a graph of my dosage, the red being where I currently am, the area to the left being where I've been, to the right - where I plan to go. I've also included a chart with the dates, dosages, and percent decreases thus far. It will take me quite a long time to fully get off at this pace (~10%/mo), much longer than the time I was at my max dose, but better to lay the foundation for a more solid life than to keep trying to rush to ultimately get nowhere.

 

I've gone 42 days without lorazepam. The longest I believe since I started citalopram (I didn't always keep formal track but I noticed it was about 3x/mo).

 

My heart breaks for every other person whose story I read on this site and elsewhere. It also brings some connection to read these stories and realize that all the weird things I'm feeling I'm not actually completely alone in. 

 

[bunchesofoats]

Day 122 - citalopram 10% liquid taper, 12.6mg

 

After 5 days of feeling solid following my last drop, 3 of which were particularly smooth and productive despite dealing with a highly irritating situation, the 6th day brought me WD symptoms. I had a dash of insomnia the night before which always leads me to trouble during the day, but in the evening was when it really began to hit. I noticed myself feeling weird, painfully unmotivated and uninterested, somewhat detached and removed and empty. I remembered many other times I've felt that way and tried to make sense of it, what was me, what was the WD, what was the effect of other medications/supplements in the past. I felt helpless thinking about how much time I've spent in that kind of state, and thinking once again about the 11months I spent at 30mg citalopram when I was breaking 20mg tablet to get the dose and how those daily fluctuations in dosage probably wreaked havoc on me. How much unnecessary pain had I been through. How many others are going through the same right now, and what kind of impact does that have on our society. It all got to be a little too much and the tears started running, though the cry was definitely different from that of sadness. It was more fear and frustration. My boyfriend supported me the whole time. I don't know how he's so capable at connecting with me even in that state. I felt too out of it and decided that despite having made it 44 days without lorazepam, it was time to break the streak. It helped take the edge off I think, maybe, or maybe it was the cry. I woke up still feeling weird this morning. I think the lorazepam helped slow down the running thoughts but the body still feels weird. I'm doing my best to just sit with it and do what I can in my life. It's frustrating. I've also gained a bit of weight in the last few months which is unusual for me. It's not much, about 5lbs, but it's not great. I don't know if that's related to the taper or not.

 

Few more thoughts - why did I feel better for the first few days and WD came later this time? Citalopram has a 35hour half life and I can understand that it takes a few days for the level to stabilize, but it still perplexes me to see such a pronounced difference. Usually I have felt symptoms within the day. Also, the last two days were uncomfortably hot (>100F) and I do really poorly with heat to begin with. How much if at all did the heat influence my symptoms? How much did dealing with an irritating situation all week lead me to finally "succumbing" to WD? How much of what I'm feeling is WD and how much is part of my "normal" fluctuations?

[bunchesofoats]

Well I read a post that I've read before and found some answers to my recent questions: 

On 5/21/2018 at 12:06 PM, brassmonkey said:

Medical research has shown that this will take a minimum of four days and could take up to a week.  This takes into account metabolic rates, half-lives and a number of other variables.  So right off the bat, every time we make a change there is a waiting period of four to seven days.

 

Once the drug is steady state in the blood the body can start adapting to the change.  The bodies initial reaction is to get confused.  It was functioning fine the way things were and now things are all confused.  That confusion manifests itself as symptoms and is a sign that the system has been destabilize.  However, there frequently is a placebo effect period just after a dose change event during which the body either doesn’t notice the change or will feel better because of it.  This placebo effect period doesn’t last long with the symptoms manifesting themselves several days after the change.  Many people report their symptoms ramping up between two and five days after the change, but it’s not uncommon for it to take several weeks for them to appear.

 

This time lag is referred to as a “honeymoon period”.  As mentioned for a dose change event it can last a couple of days to several weeks.  In the case of a Cold Turkey or Fast Taper it can last distractingly long.  Frequently in the range of three to four months and sometimes up to a year or more.  After which there is a dramatic crash of destabilization. 

[bunchesofoats]

Day 124 - citalopram 10% liquid taper, 12.6mg

 

After reading more posts on this site and reflecting, I think I was likely in WD before I ever started the citalopram. A few months prior to starting I'd taken St. John's Wort along with some other supplements in the hopes of improving my focus, mood, etc. I stopped CT for a number of reasons (a little too impatient to write out fully at the moment), and basically I'm now realizing that what was probably going on was WD from that CT. Sheesh. I also had issues long before then with the on and off methylphenidate (ritalin and concerta) and bupriopion (wellbutrin). And other supplements. And traumatic experiences etc. At times it's overwhelming to see how many years it will take to (hopefully) "normalize" after taking citalopram, but at other times I see that the instability started so long before then and that perhaps even would've gone on longer if I hadn't become more aware of my experiences through WD. It's tough and frustrating. YTF are doctors not more knowledgeable about how medications affect our nervous systems? How have we developed into a culture that's so comfortable prescribing synthetic compounds that have effects we don't really understand? What the heck is going on??

[bunchesofoats]

I've definitely been having the spirals brass monkey wrote a great post about since I was on the concerta. Did I have them before? I'm trying to remember. I certainly struggled with sadness and anxiety and depression ever since I was probably 2 years old. I had "reasons" for it, meaning to say I didn't feel sad out of nowhere as some describe in their experiences. I just never processed those emotions, and my parents didn't know how to process their own so they couldn't/didn't teach me anything about mine. I told them I had "bad thoughts" that kept me up at night when I was a young child, but they just didn't know what to do with that. I hope if/when I have kids I'm able to guide them in these kinds of struggles since I assume they'll be somewhat passed down no matter what I try to do.

[bunchesofoats]

"It's not a bottle neck," pointed out my bf in reference to taking years to taper and stabilize my nervous system. It doesn't mean I can't live my life or move forward in any respect. I'm much better off than I was 5 years ago because I've now have begun having a better and very different understanding of what I experience and how to live my life. It'll probably be some time longer that I find myself wishing I were neuro-typical and trauma-free, but I'm started to see that's really not the point, if it even really is truly possible. Still, it's hard to really face it. All I have to do do is try every day. "It's enough to try and fail," read one of my favorite yoga teachers during her yin classes.

[bunchesofoats]

Just remembered I was also prescribed amitriptyline and nortriptyline after a car accident. The first one I tried made me feel too drowsy and I couldn't go to work so the dr. switched me to the other. He was a terrible dr. in a lot of respects, and I questioned his choice of TCA's for nerve pain in my back following the tearing of muscles due to a car slamming into my car at full speed on the freeway. Makes me so frickin angry!! And despondent. It seems near impossible to trust people to be competent.

[bunchesofoats]

Well today sucked. It wasn't all WD, since I've definitely felt some of these things before, but I'm assuming it was triggered by it. I had a powerful flashback of a sexual assault that happened several years ago. I've never repressed it and have spoken about it to others, yet I think I've never really let myself go there. I can't stand to admit vulnerability, even if I understand the importance of it. I heard Brene Brown's TED talk when it first came out and I knew it completely shifted my perspective right away. Yet those old habits are still there somewhere, and I guess that's where the WD comes in - it takes me back to the most destructive ways of thinking that I've tried so much to change. Or maybe that's not it at all. To be honest it's been really hard to get a grasp on what's going on. I've never had a flashback like this, and I don't want to go into too much detail, but it threw me around in a powerful way that I don't know if I've ever been aware of experiencing before. And it wasn't just the one, it was a culmination of all the times my boundaries have been crossed. The WD definitely sucks, but so do the conditions that existed before it. There are just so many factors. It's really hard to make sense of, and I really like having things organized. One thing's for sure, my head feels weird. That for sure is the medication. It's almost like I can't get to a relaxed state in my head, it's hard to explain. It's how I felt on wellbutrin and other stimulants.

 

I'm going to stop Vitamin D since I already know I have insomnia when I take too much, and I read here that people can be more sensitive during WD. I also read the same about B vitamins which I found interesting because I was taking just methylfolate (I have the MTHFR mutation, as well as COMT) and at some point felt like it was making me anxious, so I stopped that. I don't take a multivitamin because my b12 was high during my last blood test so the NP recommended I stop taking any b12 supplements.

[bunchesofoats]

Day 126

 

Looking at the years I have ahead of me to taper off is a hard pill to swallow. I read in another post an exact thought I've had:

On 3/4/2015 at 4:01 AM, ten0275 said:

i felt it. it's probably not dissimilar to a climber standing in front of everest wondering where to place their first foot, and seeing the peak way up above.

 

It's mind-boggling how often I read others' posts on this site that could've been written by my mind, especially when I feel like in my real life absolutely no one seems to relate or understand, not any friends, family, professionals, or other guiders. As a result they often give well-meaning but but advice. Learning to listen to myself over others has been a HUGE battle of mine, along with learning that I'm entitled to having and maintaining boundaries.

 

The last 5 days have been really rough. But the month before that has been one of the most solid I've had in years. I'm getting much better at telling the difference between symptoms and at learning to soothe and support myself. I'm sort of grateful for the horrible WD experiences because they've laid out clearly what WD is and woken me up to the impacts of medication which has helped me immensely in differentiating sources of feelings and symptoms. But I'd like to also live my life better. And I'm worried about being too wiped out having too many days in a row of such awfulness with no source of relief. I've given up before and I don't want to give up again (meaning not engaging with life or not trying, not suicidal).

 

I was going to take the next 2 months to get down to 10mg, but I'll slow it down over 3 months instead. I may even hold for an extra month at my current dose depending on how the rest of this month goes. And maybe it was always going to take this long, with or without medication, to learn to stabilize my nervous system. That's one of the more peaceful thoughts I have. Anger still often arises, and at times quite powerfully.

[bunchesofoats]

Day 128 - 12 days since my last drop, symptoms finally leveling out. From my extensive Glenmullen - adapted symptom tracker, I picked out my most common general symptoms, my most common WD-only symptoms, and my most common symptoms that were made worse by WD. Then I made a list off the top of my head of things that help me with my most common symptoms. Now I'm making a concerted effort to do those things every day. It was nothing new or surprising that came up, and they're all things I've often tried to check off every day, but framing it in this way gave me new motivation.

 

This is what helps me with my most common symptoms:

• yoga
• keeping a tidy space
• drinking enough water
• writing thoughts
• light exercise
• having a plan/vision
• getting good sleep

On good days do as much as possible of all to build that scaffolding, on bad days touch on each in some way. Ie yoga, at least swing my legs up the wall while in bed, tidy up the smallest bit, write one sentence or few words of my thoughts, consider for even a moment what I want for my life, aim for good sleep hygiene. 

[ChessieCat]

On 8/21/2019 at 5:55 AM, bunchesofoats said:

Looking at the years I have ahead of me to taper off is a hard pill to swallow.

 

I have found it better to look at how far I have come, instead of what is left to go.  Any reduction is heading you in the direction you want to go.  Think of it like being stuck in traffic and/or getting stuck at traffic lights.  You can't make it go any faster.

 

Or this one:  Use the image of waiting in a queue, the line gradually gets shorter. When you are in a queue you can't make it move any quicker than it does. You have no control over it. All you can do is wait in the line. How you wait is what is going to make a difference. You can either be impatient and start getting irritable and think bad things and complain to the other people who might start swearing at you which makes you feel worse or you can try to be patient and calm and try and think of nice things and look at the things around you. It's going to take the same amount of time for you to get to the head of the queue but you can either make the experience of waiting pleasant or unpleasant.

[bunchesofoats]

On 8/22/2019 at 9:42 PM, ChessieCat said:

How you wait is what is going to make a difference.

Love that. Words of wisdom. 

 

I've been reflecting a lot on my entire trajectory, and I realize that I had WD symptoms long before I started citalopram from all the other meds/supplements etc. Had I not had this experience with citalopram, I may have never found this site and realized that there are actually other people having experiences just like mine. They've been where I've been and have learned and grown and shared their wisdom.

 

I still find new things in this experience to be angry about, turning points where I was on to something that could've helped me and someone else for whatever reason shut it down, but I'm so used to that anger now I don't get caught up in it (at least not today hah!).

[bunchesofoats]

Day 140 - 10% liquid citalopram taper - 12.6mg - 24 days since last drop

 

The trajectory of my last drop went like this:

4 days feeling much better than usual

5 days hell

5 days heavy struggle

5 days manageable but still symptomatic

5 days decent.

 

I'm in the 'decent' phase today. I'm not asymptomatic, but I'm 'normal' symptomatic, that is, I'm experiencing things I've been dealing with for as long as I can remember, though I still hope to find myself eventually living more of my days in an even better state of being. I'm in my PMS part of my cycle so that's likely a big piece of the pie (my god I've been craving a whole pecan pie). I've also been fighting off a cold which always brings me a touch of insomnia and anxiety. Ok, it's more than just a touch, like anything is with me.

 

Overall though, despite not having sunshine and rainbows exploding from within these past few days, I've been able to make steady and conscious efforts to move my life in the direction I want to go. My plan is to hold at 12.6mg for an extra month, maybe longer depending on how I feel. The last drop was a whirlwind and if I can help it, I'd like to avoid being basically incapacitated and traumatized for several days. I've also got a lot going on this month, and September always brings a rush of nostalgic and melancholic emotions for me.

 

I am definitely starting to get a better understanding of my symptoms and nervous system. It's interesting trying to piece together the trajectory of my nervous system over the course of my life, but mostly I'm trying to pay very good attention to what it's telling me now. Tracking my symptoms with Glenmullen's chart has helped me greatly. I hope to get better at putting into material form some of what goes on in my head.

[quads]

Read this whole thread yesterday.

All things considered it sounds like things are going well. I'm glad to see you decided to slow down a bit, although I haven't started my taper I've done a lot of reading and I was worried at the start you were going quite fast.

When I start my taper I'm going to go with the brassmonkey slide method, if your last drop was a whirlwind maybe you could consider adopting it from here and the 2.5% weekly reductions will be a little smoother, while still reducing your dose at the same rate.

Any more details on the SAD light? It's something I thought about before but thought it sounded a little gimmicky and didn't bother with in the end. If you had positive experiences it might be something for me to consider now as summer ends, I'd love to hear more.

All the best with your taper, you got this

[bunchesofoats]

Day 307 - 10% liquid citalopram taper - 11.6mg - 76 days since last drop

 

Whoa! I cannot believe it's been 5 months since I last posted! And also I've barely dropped at all since then! Which is ok, and I'll describe my experience since then.

 

August was a ROUGH drop, as I mentioned before. September and October are also the months in which I am always saddest. I should just plan on that from now on instead of being baffled and trying to fight it.

 

I dropped from 12.6mg to 12.5mg 2019-10-28. It was a less intense yet similar trajectory to other drops, showing that symptom intensity is still somewhat unpredictable and does not seem at all linear.

 

I dropped from 12.5mg to 11.6mg 2019-12-04. This was actually less problematic than the drop before.

 

I only drop my dosage in the first week of my menstrual cycle, which means (with my pretty regular 4 week cycle) I have one opportunity per month to drop my dosage. The next opportunity would've been right at the start of the new year, and I didn't want to begin 2020 like that. The next opportunity would've been the end of January, but we had a major stressful life event going on, and I didn't think it wise to drop during that time. Things are still getting settled, and I will likely wait a couple more months until things are more stable to drop again. So, "progress" has halted for the time being.

 

However, I do notice a steady improvement in my overall well-being and symptom levels. I am getting better. Sex drive is still flaky, but sex is definitely starting to feel more like I remember it! It's so weird how this medication changed all the feelings and sensations associated with sex! I still don't understand how that works. I've heard many say the trade off is worth it for them on SSRIs (giving up sex drive for not being depressed). For me it was never worth it, but I also don't believe this medication ever actually helped me.

 

I'm trying to keep tapering at a pace that minimizes interference with my life. Yes, it will take me a couple more years, but it doesn't have to put my life on hold. Yes, I make sacrifices each day because of it, and it's annoying to have to make sure I measure out carefully every night and never ever slip up, but after this, that's it, no more garbage in my system. I've had some kind of garbage in there my whole life throwing me around, and pretty soon I'll be able to allow myself to just be thrown around by life itself.

 

I'm attaching a graph of my symptoms which I've been tracking diligently for months. I've been able to see the differences and similarities between WD symptoms and life symptoms, and that a drop in dosage equates in intensity to a stressful life event. Yeah, I've got a better handle on it. Doesn't mean it doesn't suck. But the things I have to do to handle this are things that help me in all other aspects of my life.

 

 

[bunchesofoats]

Hey @quads , hope this message doesn't come too late to be of relevance.

On 9/4/2019 at 10:22 AM, quads said:

Any more details on the SAD light?

There are studies that have been done, I believe usually coming from the Nordic countries, about the impacts of bright light exposure on neurotransmitters and mood, etc. Maybe when I have more time I'll dig some up. Here's a link to the light I have: https://www.circadianoptics.com/product/lumos. I've had it for a few years now and have loved it. It looks great and is really flexible. Great for reading and working on the computer as well.

 

It has 3 settings. On the brightest setting, about 1ft away from the light, I measured 10,000lux (with my phone app which is likely not super accurate but still a decent relative measure as I tested it on several light sources). 10,000 lux was the number said to be of significant impact. I know I definitely feel the difference when exposed to that bright light, sometimes even too much so (almost feeling like I drank green tea). Lately I've had the luxury of sitting outside in the morning, and that's been fantastic.

 

It may or may not help you, but I don't doubt that bright light has a physiological impact.

 

Best of luck with your journey!

[bunchesofoats]

On 7/23/2019 at 12:43 PM, Altostrata said:

If you get withdrawal symptoms AT ANY TIME, you're tapering too fast.

 

Hey @Altostrata, is it really possible to not feel ANY withdrawal symptoms? Is it possible for everyone?

[Altostrata]

Yes, it's possible to not feel any withdrawal symptoms. Nobody knows why some people have more difficulty than others.

[bunchesofoats]

@Altostrata I feel even the tiniest of drops. I can manage and mitigate, but I definitely feel symptoms. Anything else I can be doing? How much is "in my head"?

[bunchesofoats]

Any insight into why my October 0.8% drop felt the same or even worse than my December 7.2% drop? @Altostrata@ChessieCat@brassmonkey or anyone else? It seems to me like below a certain threshold, it doesn't make a difference how small of a drop in dosage it is - the intensity of the symptoms will be about the same, or sometimes the intensity of symptoms is paradoxically worse the smaller the change. I've tried a couple other times to change by a very small amount and felt it immediately. Is it possible that this isn't real? Or can there be a sort of binary effect regarding change vs no change?

 

Going forward, for the next couple of steps, my plan is that whenever I'm feeling "good," I'll drop by 6.9% to 10.8mg, then the next month that I'm feeling good (assuming that goes reasonably well), I'll drop by 7.4% to 10. Once at 10mg I'll have to transition from tablet to dissolved liquid which will take at least a month on its own.

 

How do I employ my experience of feeling symptoms from even 0.8% drops to inform my future plans? It seems to me like it's unrealistic to expect there to be zero symptoms. It seems like it might have to be acceptable to feel symptoms for a couple weeks while still managing my life, with maybe a day or two where I can do nothing but play skyrim.

[Altostrata]

How often are you making decreases?

 

Your nervous system is telling you it would like a vacation from drug changes, as it's done before. Perhaps you might hold at the same dosage for a few months and then resume your taper.

[bunchesofoats]

Thanks for the reply @Altostrata. I was thinking the same thing, so I held at the same dosage for about 3 months. But I still feel small changes. I'm wondering, is it truly possible for me to feel no withdrawal symptoms. I don't believe it is, and I am in general quite sensitive even to supplements. But I believe there is an acceptable, manageable level of withdrawal symptoms. However, if it really is possible even for me to not have any, I wonder what are other changes I can make to improve my process.

 

Here's a timeline of all my dosage changes, from start to current, skip to '2nd taper' for most recent changes:

 

2016-10-29, 10mg, first started taking, held for 8 weeks

2016-12-26, 20mg, 7 weeks

2017-02-15, 25mg, 2 weeks

2017-03-01, 30mg, 50 weeks

2018-02-12, ~27.5mg, 3 weeks, 8.3% drop

2018-03-06, ~25mg, 6 weeks, 9.1% drop

2018-04-16, ~22.5mg, 4 weeks, 10.0% drop

2018-05-11,   20mg, 9 weeks, 11.1% drop

2018-07-10, ~17.5mg, brain zaps, went back to 20mg after 2 days

2018-07-12,   20mg, 40 weeks

 

2nd taper

2019-04-17, 18.4mg, 4 weeks, 8.0% drop

2019-05-15, 17.0mg, 4 weeks, 7.6% drop

2019-06-12, 15.5mg, 4 weeks, 8.8% drop

2019-07-10, 14.0mg, 4.4 wks, 9.7% drop

2019-08-10, 12.6mg, 11.3 wks, 10.0% drop

2019-10-28, 12.5mg, 5.1 wks, 0.8% drop

2019-12-03, 11.6mg, 11.4 wks, 7.2% drop

2020-02-21, 11.0mg, current, 5.2% drop

[Altostrata]

Your nervous system is the expert here. It's telling you it wants a rest.

 

If you were feeling small decreases all along, you might have been going too fast then.

[bunchesofoats]

Day 320 - liquid citalopram taper - 11.0mg - 11 days since last drop of 5.2%

 

My nervous system still recognizes the drops, so it's possible it's still too fast. I think it's over sensitized from the 11months I was taking 30mg, breaking a 20mg pill in half and experiencing really rough symptoms that no one ever connected to the citalopram. I'm also in the middle of moving, so not a great time, but it'd been nearly 3 months since my last drop, and I didn't think it made sense anymore to wait for a more "perfect" time to drop.

 

The most recognizable symptoms this time are the particular headache I get, which is like an overall deep tension and feels distinct from other headaches, a feeling of general anxiety like I can't quite rest my system, difficulty focusing or feeling clear, and some disturbance sleeping. I also have dreams more vivid than usual, mild tingling all over my body (there is no tingling when withdrawal has truly worn off), and feelings of fogginess and stuffiness in my head.

 

I'm concerned that by staying on these liquid dosages for too long, even though they're much more consistent than breaking the pills, I'm still introducing daily variations that may be tough on the system. That's why I want to sometimes "plow ahead" so I can get to 10mg where I can take a longer rest knowing that my dosage will in fact be consistent from day to day.

 

Some people I've opened up to have been familiar with this process, some have been shocked and wonder why I can't just take two weeks at a spa to get it out of my system. It feels lonely sometimes. I also feel foolish for ever taking this medication. But I know I'm growing a lot as part a result of this experience. Certainly I've greatly increased my capacity for acceptance. I'm hoping this tearing open of my soul and rebuilding will all be worth it. Even if it isn't, I don't currently see another way.

[bunchesofoats]

Here's a graph of my citalopram dosages over time with the red line being my current level and everything to the right of the red line being my projection. My current estimate is that it will take me 5 years from now to completely get off. This seems ridiculous and gut-punchingly overwhelming, but it's how things look for now. Who knows, maybe at some point my nervous system chills and the changes becomes smoother. Just a reminder that my psychiatrist keeps insisting it should just be two weeks of rough symptoms and then I'd be over it.

 

[bunchesofoats]

Day 331 - liquid citalopram taper - 11.0mg - 22 days since last drop of 5.2%

 

I started having vertigo again two days ago. I initially began having bad bouts of it a month after starting citalopram. I had 8 bouts total in 1.5 years. I never connected it to the citalopram. I suspected some influence from my hormonal cycle and labrynthitis (inflammation following upper respiratory infection).

 

Immediately after my 8th episode, I happened to begin decreasing citalopram for my 1st taper. I had one mild episode one day about 1.5mo later, and then didn't have it at all for the next 1.5 years. It was only then that I connected it to the citalopram. I realized that since tapering down to 20mg from 30mg, I was at a much more consistent dose, since at 30mg I was breaking tablets in half. I concluded that the inconsistency in dosage was causing the vertigo.

 

Last October, I again began having mild dizzies for a couple weeks. I was concerned I wasn't keeping my dosage consistent enough. I got more consistent and eventually it subsided.

 

Two days ago I was again hit with a bad bout - full on spins, grabbing on to the wall, making sure I don't wobble (or worse, fall) in front of my yoga students. I thought it could be a combo of withdrawal and fighting off a mild cold (or maybe corona, who knows). It also once again is during the part of my hormonal cycle where I already feel my serotonin drop (day 21), it's been 22 days since I did a 5.2% dosage drop, and a loved one passed away last weekend. I thought may be some combination of those things.

 

My life circumstances have also changed the last couple months, and as a result of that, my taking citalopram schedule has been much less consistent than it was the previous months. It now varies from about 9pm-midnight, where as before it stayed 10-10:30pm. My current hypothesis is that it's actually this inconsistency that is leading to the vertigo. I've also had some other symptoms like particularly intense dreams and a general feeling of physical anxiety and dis-ease, as well as difficulty dissipating negative emotions. It's remarkable how much deeper the layers of awareness can go. I don't know if I'm right, but this is where my understanding currently lies.

 

I'm curious why I could have a certain set of symptoms with dosage inconsistency and a different set of symptoms with dropping dosage. I've never had the vertigo as a result of a dosage drop, just dosage inconsistency.

[bunchesofoats]

Day 342 - liquid citalopram taper - 11.0mg - 33 days since last drop of 5.2%

 

The vertigo has slowly gone away. I still felt a weird sense of what I'm describing as disequilibrium inside of my brain for several days, even if it didn't lead to full spinning or actual disequilibrium. I've also been taking 3x ZMA (Zing Magnesium Aspartate + B6) at bedtime since Dec 11 (3.5months). Last night I went back down to 2x which is what I'd been taking for years before. I felt like it was easier to wake up this morning.

 

I've been having a weird feeling - like super anxiety or being removed from everything - for the past couple of weeks that's hard to describe. It was worst just before my period, and I've had it before, but I was surprised it lingered this long. I've also been having more headaches than usual, so I thought maybe it was some kind of migraine. My mom gets terrible migraines, but I've never really had an obvious one, though I've been prone to headaches since I was a child. I've also been reading more about depersonalization/derealization. Some of the descriptions I relate to very strongly, others I don't at all. Ultimately, the name doesn't matter, I'm just trying to get a better handle on whatever it is I experience.

 

Some of this I'm sure is just the general anxiety of the pandemic and panic buying and economy collapsing and all of that. Just minor things. Had I known there would be a pandemic and the death of a loved one this past month (cancer not corona), I probably wouldn't have dropped my dosage. But overall, as uncomfortable and frustrating as it was for a couple of weeks, I'm doing relatively ok. I won't be dropping for a while though.

 

 

Also, @Altostrata, I've been reading your comments on ciasim's topic and they've been helpful guidance for me as well. Thank you for all the work that you do.

[Altostrata]

You're welcome!

 

Do you have a fever with the headaches?

 

There is a lot of anxiety floating around. If you're getting withdrawal dizziness and headaches, might be a good time to hold on tapering for a while, don't add to coronavirus anxiety, it's bad enough.

[bunchesofoats]

No I haven't had any fever and I've been checking with a thermometer to make sure. I haven't had the headaches as bad the past couple of days. The headaches I've had have been more like the tension headaches I used to get rather than the withdrawal-specific headaches I've come to know.

 

I definitely won't be tapering for a while! I also just moved so lots of changes to stabilize in my life before making medication changes.

 

It seems insane though to have become so dependent on a drug that doesn't even help me, and to think of what may happen to all the people in the same position if they get sick, if they have to take other interacting medications, if the supply chain is disrupted... Not a good system.

[bunchesofoats]

Day 432 - liquid citalopram taper - 11.0mg - 123 days since last drop of 5.2%

 

I just wanted to write an update. I'm doing ok. Not great, not terrible. I've had some good days in the last few months and felt like I was on my way up. I started getting ready to drop my dosage again. I really want to hit 10mg before the end of the summer. I have seasonal depression that hits hard in September and October, so I want to be stabilized before then. I'd like to get to 10mg so that I'm at a truly consistent dose (11.0mg requires some dissolving and pipetting that likely has some variances despite my meticulous attempts).

 

I began feeling very stressed again about 10 days ago. I thought it was hormonal, but it hasn't gone away. My boyfriend is working a lot these days so I've had to pick up all of the chores. I normally do most of them anyway, and I definitely have much higher requirements than him for cleanliness and organization and food quality, but in this time period it's been extreme. It's not the first time I've picked up his slack. This is our main ongoing issue. I know this period of work for him is temporary, but even when he has little work, it's very hard to get him to do his share. And I feel very stressed out when things are unclean and disorganized. I feel silly about it, and I'm still working on better ways to deal with it, but overall, I feel very stressed. I enjoy cooking and taking care of him, but I do get resentful when things are so one sided. I've discussed all of this with him, but the stress for the moment remains in my body and head.

 

It concerns me that I still have so much trouble taking care of myself. I decided to not drop my dosage, although I'm still tempted just so I can get to 10mg sooner as I said before. My plan was to do it in 2 steps over 2 months, then I changed to 3 steps over 3 months, but now I'm postponing to I don't know when.

 

I'm definitely don't feel like I'm reaching my potential, and I realize that right now most people aren't, but I'm still very frustrated with myself for how I feel and for not doing the things I could theoretically be doing.

 

I had a moment the other day when I looked at the spreadsheet where I track my symptoms and felt horrified. Days when symptoms were particularly bad marked in different colors, and there were so many of them; so many different symptoms appearing so often. Tracking my symptoms helped me realize I didn't always feel terrible, but at this particular moment it horrified me how much of my life I've already spent dealing with this, and then of course, how much more I have left in front of me.

 

I hate that I need things organized so that I can think straight and that I run out of energy so easily.

 

I feel like I'm descending into nothing but negativity so I'll pause for now until I can come back and update on some of the more positive things I've experienced and learned over the last few months.

[Altostrata]

Are you still taking lorazepam? How often do you take it?

[bunchesofoats]

@Altostrata The last time I took lorazepam was January (6 months ago), and I think only once that month during an anxiety attack in the midst of a stressful situation.

 

I have been drink some kava tea over the last month https://yogiproducts.com/teas/herbal-teas/kava-stress-relief/ . I don't drink it every day, and I never drink more than one in a day. I mention it only because kava has some gabanergic activity, and I did wonder if it could have a negative impact on me. My mom accidentally bought it, mistaking it for the lavender tea, and can't drink it because it gives her migraines. Maybe this is my weird version of a migraine?

[ChessieCat]

SA's topic:  kava-kava-piper-methysticum

 

[bunchesofoats]

Thanks for that @ChessieCat. I read through the entire thread this morning. I'd searched SA for kava before and read through other threads but hadn't seen that one. Definitely stopping for now.

 

I started very slowly about a month ago, with just one tea for several days. When I liked it, I tried again, and so on it went. I was concerned about my liver as well as possible interactions, but overall it seemed to help me focus on hard work (I drank it in the morning unlike many others who drink it at bedtime to help with sleep). It was only over a few weeks that I began to feel worse, and only now that I made the connection (once again) to the SSRI. I had a really weird headache yesterday, and that's one of my WD symptoms, along with weird feelings all through my body and not being able to concentrate or do anything. The last time I drank it was two days ago. So it seems like I had a mini WD yesterday.