Genesis: so lost and scared, I don't know who I am

[Genesis]

I have only been on buspirone 35 days.  Do I have to do a long taper for that?  I don't want to take it, it doesn't do anything.  The PA started me on 10mg 3x daily, she increased me 6 days ago to 15mg 3x daily.  Can any of this be changed now?  

 

I will read your message better now.  I'm having extreme trouble concentrating on little things like reading.  thank you for the message

[Shep]

You can become dependent in a month, so you may already have developed a dependency on buspirone. 

 

Please go ahead and start a daily drug and symptoms journal (see my last post for details). And then we can come up with a taper plan. 

[Genesis]

Supplements: none, only OTC are tylenol, naproxen, claritin

sept 18 2019

12:30am - crying, feel hopeless, frustrated
2:30am - ziprasidone 60mg, gabapentin 1200mg, buspirone 15mg, 450mg oxcarbazepine
4:00am - sleep
11:45am- wake up, 125mcg levothyroxine 
12:oopm - brush teeth, wash face, groggy
1:00pm - ate,  1200mg gabapentin, 15mg buspirone, 10mg claritin, 1000mg extra strength tylenol, 220mg naproxen, 0.5mg lorazepam 
3:00pm - cleaning
6:00pm - weird sensation all over of warm relaxation, was nice, not sure why
8:00pm  25mg metoprolol, 15mg buspirone, 1200mg gabapentin.  feeling well
8:30pm - anxious, 0.5mg lorazepam
9:30pm  1000mg tylenol, lower back and neck pain
10:30pm- frustrated, can't concentrate, sat outside
12:00am  dizzy when standing, unstable when walking
12:15am   snack, 60mg ziprasidone, 450mg oxcarbazepine
1:00am   1200mg gabapentin, 15mg buspar, 220mg naproxen, 25mg metoprolol.  anxiety starting, slight arrythmia, anxiety
1:15am  completely relaxed 
2:30am   fell asleep
 

 

I realized yesterday the buspirone finally started working, and it helps a lot, so I realize I can't stop it now.

[Altostrata]

On 4/23/2019 at 6:48 PM, Genesis said:

 

Psychiatrist prescribes Ativan, geodon, trileptal, and Effexor, and general dr for the rest.  I saw a new psych dr last month, and she is threatening to lower my ativan.  My doctors dont listen to me or care what I say.  So if I need to taper, I think that one is really important to think about, since she won't taper my way.

 

drug interactions ---> https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1147-0,2296-1523,1488-899,1615-0,1765-1129,1176-0,1548-0,1749-2517,1260-0,1463-3517,1082-13326,1486-898,1912-0,1790-1152,2330-1540

 

 

Genesis, you need to find a doctor who will take these drug-drug interactions seriously. Have you printed out the drug interactions report and shown it to all of your doctors?

 

On 9/18/2019 at 12:26 AM, Genesis said:

Eventually I went back to just my 3mg three times a day, but so afraid of what to tell the PA.  I told her what I went through.  She was so kind (sarcasm) to not cut back my Rx this month (September).  So out of fear, I cut myself from 3x daily, to 2.5. This was Sept 15 2019, today is Sept 18 2019.

 

 

What drug are you referring to? Lorazepam? Why and when was lorazepam added? Please update your signature, lorazepam doesn't even appear in it. Neither does gabapentin or metoprolol. Why and when was gabapentin added?

 

Of all your drugs, the ziprasidone is the most destructive. It has made you diabetic. Rather than reducing lorazepam, your new psychiatrist should be minimizing your ziprasidone dosage.

 

Why was Buspirone added in August?

 

11 hours ago, Genesis said:

1:00pm - ate,  1200mg gabapentin, 15mg buspirone, 10mg claritin, 1000mg extra strength tylenol, 220mg naproxen, 0.5mg lorazepam 

 

Why are you taking gabapentin, Buspirone, and lorazepam at the same time?

 

Why did you take Tylenol and naproxen with the rest of your cocktail?

 

11 hours ago, Genesis said:

1:00am   1200mg gabapentin, 15mg buspar, 220mg naproxen, 25mg metoprolol.  anxiety starting, slight arrythmia, anxiety
 

 

Do you see that symptom pattern? The anxiety and arrhythmia after you take this handful of drugs is a paradoxical reaction. That means this combination of drugs is pressing your nervous system down too much -- it's slowing it down too much -- and your nervous system is rebelling. This is an adverse reaction to the drug combination.

 

You are taking an excessive amount of "brakes" and treating paradoxical reactions with increased amounts of drugs. 

[Genesis]

I remember you asked me to take in the drug interaction list to a doctor, I did to my cardiologist... he wasn't the least bit concerned... said go talk to your psych dr.

 

yes, the lorazepam.  I had gotten down to 2mg daily fairly quickly and i had the manic/depressive episode, so I went back to my 3x daily.  then I went from 3mg to 2.5mg.  I realize I've made a mistake.  no one monitors what i'm doing, the psych PA just tells me she's cutting 10 pills every month and makes me figure it out on my own.

 

i've been on lorazepam most of 20 years.  i've tried valium, librium, xanax, and klonopin with bad results.

 

i don't know why i take what i do... it's never been my choice to take any of these medications.

 

i was able to get down to 75mg venlafaxine and 20mg ziprasidone.  then last month she upped them from 150mg venlafaxine and 60mg ziprasidone.  ziprasidone is very hard on my tachycardia and its worse.

 

why ?  i dont know.

i dont feel welcomed here, just scolded and attacked.  if im in the wrong place please let me know, i will go.

[ShiningLight]

Welcome! I am sorry for what you are going through with the ativan and the concerns about being tapered off despite your objections. I hope you do start posting more, there is a lot of great support and kind people here.

 

I know you aren't working on this one right now, but I just wanted to say hello because I am also on gabapentin. 🙄

 

 

[Shep]

8 hours ago, Genesis said:

i don't know why i take what i do... it's never been my choice to take any of these medications.

 

i was able to get down to 75mg venlafaxine and 20mg ziprasidone.  then last month she upped them from 150mg venlafaxine and 60mg ziprasidone.  ziprasidone is very hard on my tachycardia and its worse.

 

why ?  i dont know.

i dont feel welcomed here, just scolded and attacked.  if im in the wrong place please let me know, i will go.

 

You're more than welcome here, Genesis.

 

I think what Alto is going for is for you to understand that you do indeed have a choice over what you will and will not put into your body. You've been a member here for about 5 months and you're on even more drugs and some at a higher dose than when you first came to the forum. We need you to become an advocate for yourself. I know this is hard because we are culturally conditioned to simply do what a doctor says and to rebel against this seems very wrong. 

 

But it's necessary if you want to save your life. The cocktail of drugs you are on is very dangerous and we need you to become an advocate for your own healing. It's important that you don't let your symptoms make you so vulnerable that you lose your voice in these types of decisions and keep taking whatever drug your doctor gives you. 

 

All you need a doctor for is to continue to prescribe the drugs. And then you do the research, ask questions here, read the links, and make the decisions that you feel is best based on what you read and learn. As you become more informed, you'll find a stronger voice and be able to stand up for yourself in making medical decisions. 

 

It's a process that will evolve as you go through the tapering and recovery stages. You'll get there if this is something you truly want to do. 

 

 

20 hours ago, Genesis said:

Supplements: none, only OTC are tylenol, naproxen, claritin

 

I added tylenol and naptroxen to your drug interaction report (claritin was already added) and it popped up more interactions for the naproxen:

 

Drug Interaction Report

 

8 hours ago, Genesis said:

i was able to get down to 75mg venlafaxine and 20mg ziprasidone.  then last month she upped them from 150mg venlafaxine and 60mg ziprasidone.  ziprasidone is very hard on my tachycardia and its worse.

 

Ziprasidone is listed in several of the Major interactions and comes with a lot of dangerous side effects, so you may want to taper that one down first, but we really need a complete accounting of your drugs. As Alto mentioned, your signature has left some things out. 

 

Please see this thread which explains what is needed in a signature:

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

What other recent changes have you made in addition to doubling the venlafaxine and tripling the ziprasidone last month? 

[Altostrata]

12 hours ago, Genesis said:

I had gotten down to 2mg daily fairly quickly and i had the manic/depressive episode

 

Hi, Genesis. "Manic/depressive episode" doesn't mean anything to us here. What were your symptoms?

 

Please answer all the staff's questions, we need to know some things to help you.

 

12 hours ago, Genesis said:

i was able to get down to 75mg venlafaxine and 20mg ziprasidone.  then last month she upped them from 150mg venlafaxine and 60mg ziprasidone.  ziprasidone is very hard on my tachycardia and its worse.

 

For what symptoms were the increased dosages of venlafaxine and ziprasidone prescribed?

 

We can't write prescriptions for you or go to the doctor with you. You will need to learn to deal with your doctors yourself. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you taking charge is the only way you're going to get these drugs minimized.

 

If the dosage increase causes increased cardio symptoms, that should be cause for great concern by the PA. Did you tell her you had an adverse reaction to this? 

 

According to your daily notes, you're taking 120mg ziprasidone per day. How many tablets of ziprasidone do you take per day? What is the dosage of each of these tablets? 

 

Please put the dates of your most recent dosage increase in your signature.

 

Do you have a choice of doctors? Must you see a psychiatrist? This PA and psychiatrist don't appear to know what they're doing.

 

Any doctor can prescribe these drugs. Can you communicate with your GP?

 

12 hours ago, Genesis said:

I remember you asked me to take in the drug interaction list to a doctor, I did to my cardiologist... he wasn't the least bit concerned... said go talk to your psych dr.

 

 

This cardiologist is not going to argue with your psychiatrist. All in all, your doctors do not sound like good doctors.

[Genesis]

15 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

Welcome! I am sorry for what you are going through with the ativan and the concerns about being tapered off despite your objections. I hope you do start posting more, there is a lot of great support and kind people here.

 

I know you aren't working on this one right now, but I just wanted to say hello because I am also on gabapentin. 🙄

 

Hi thank you ShiningLight  I will try it's just very hard.  I understand the gabapentin  I'm sorry you have to deal with that one.  I can't imagine how difficult it is.  Thank you for your kindness  ❤️

 

Genesis

[Genesis]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What drug are you referring to? Lorazepam? Why and when was lorazepam added? Please update your signature, lorazepam doesn't even appear in it. Neither does gabapentin or metoprolol. Why and when was gabapentin added?

 

Of all your drugs, the ziprasidone is the most destructive. It has made you diabetic. Rather than reducing lorazepam, your new psychiatrist should be minimizing your ziprasidone dosage.

 

Why was Buspirone added in August?

 

Yes lorazepam.  Lorazepam was started 1999.  

 

Gabapentin was first added by a previous psychiatrist as another type of mood stabilizer 2014.  Then I started going to a pain clinic and was dx with fibromyalgia.  The Dr there took over the gabapentin and kept increasing it because I was building a tolerance.  eventually my primary dr took over.  

 

I will start reducing ziprasidone.

 

Buspirone was added august 13 because i told her while i was decreasing the lorazepam i was having anxiety and it was getting unbearable.  she put me on buspirone to help with anxiety.  i see now, a little late, she has no idea what she is doing.  i am already planning to see another clinic, with an actual Dr.  with my insurance i have many options with psych doctors, they all  just seem to throw pills at me.  when i tell them i dont want increases, or want to try new things, they get angry and tell me im non-compliant and that they won't work with me.  so i have to find new ones.

 

 

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Do you see that symptom pattern? The anxiety and arrhythmia after you take this handful of drugs is a paradoxical reaction. That means this combination of drugs is pressing your nervous system down too much -- it's slowing it down too much -- and your nervous system is rebelling. This is an adverse reaction to the drug combination.

 

You are taking an excessive amount of "brakes" and treating paradoxical reactions with increased amounts of drugs. 

 

Thank you for explaining.  I do see the symptom pattern now.

 

Other than the lorazepam and ziprasidone, should I begin a taper anywhere else?

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hi, Genesis. "Manic/depressive episode" doesn't mean anything to us here. What were your symptoms?

 

Please answer all the staff's questions, we need to know some things to help you.

 

Gotcha.  Will never use those words again.

I was "panicking" in public and froze my body with tears streaming down my face.  A few minutes later I was absolutely elated and happy.  It was my mother's birthday.  I was very loud, drove fast, talked fast, cleaned everywhere dripping in sweat, didn't sleep.  Did the same thing the next day, until evening.  Then I didn't want to live anymore and considered suicide.  I planned it.  Of course I chickened out like before.  I got a little better in a week.

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

For what symptoms were the increased dosages of venlafaxine and ziprasidone prescribed?

 

Depression.  Ziprasidone, I dont know.  She didnt really explain.  Yes, it's my fault.  I get it

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

We can't write prescriptions for you or go to the doctor with you. You will need to learn to deal with your doctors yourself. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you taking charge is the only way you're going to get these drugs minimized.

 

It does sound "harsh" and it is completely cruel and unnecessary when I am here asking for help.  I don't understand why you have to be that way to someone who is struggling.  I don't get it at all. 

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

If the dosage increase causes increased cardio symptoms, that should be cause for great concern by the PA. Did you tell her you had an adverse reaction to this? 

 

According to your daily notes, you're taking 120mg ziprasidone per day. How many tablets of ziprasidone do you take per day? What is the dosage of each of these tablets? 

 

I only started getting the bad reaction again since she increased it.  I see her monthly.  I am hesitant in contacting her before an appt.

 

If I messed up in my notes I didn't mean to, I only take a 60mg capsule of ziprasidone at night.

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please put the dates of your most recent dosage increase in your signature.

 

I am working on that

 

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Do you have a choice of doctors? Must you see a psychiatrist? This PA and psychiatrist don't appear to know what they're doing.

 

Any doctor can prescribe these drugs. Can you communicate with your GP?

 

 

My primary ARNP or Dr wont prescribe my psych meds, they are too uncomfortable doing so.  

[Genesis]

8 hours ago, Shep said:

You're more than welcome here, Genesis.

 

I think what Alto is going for is for you to understand that you do indeed have a choice over what you will and will not put into your body. You've been a member here for about 5 months and you're on even more drugs and some at a higher dose than when you first came to the forum. We need you to become an advocate for yourself. I know this is hard because we are culturally conditioned to simply do what a doctor says and to rebel against this seems very wrong. 

 

But it's necessary if you want to save your life. The cocktail of drugs you are on is very dangerous and we need you to become an advocate for your own healing. It's important that you don't let your symptoms make you so vulnerable that you lose your voice in these types of decisions and keep taking whatever drug your doctor gives you. 

 

All you need a doctor for is to continue to prescribe the drugs. And then you do the research, ask questions here, read the links, and make the decisions that you feel is best based on what you read and learn. As you become more informed, you'll find a stronger voice and be able to stand up for yourself in making medical decisions. 

 

It's a process that will evolve as you go through the tapering and recovery stages. You'll get there if this is something you truly want to do. 

 

Thank you Shep for being kind.  When all i've had is back steps, it's difficult to care what happens to me.  Most of the last 5 months is me finding reason to fight.  It's extremely hard for me to ask for help, so when I finally do and get treated terribly, it shuts me off.

 

Anytime I speak up to a doctor, the snap back at me asking where I went to school or how many degrees I have.  So it's very difficult when I'm in fear of even asking for what has been prescribed when I'm threatened to be dropped repeatedly.

 

8 hours ago, Shep said:

I added tylenol and naptroxen to your drug interaction report (claritin was already added) and it popped up more interactions for the naproxen:

 

it's extremely difficult for me to not take any of these, but I will do my best.

8 hours ago, Shep said:

Ziprasidone is listed in several of the Major interactions and comes with a lot of dangerous side effects, so you may want to taper that one down first, but we really need a complete accounting of your drugs. As Alto mentioned, your signature has left some things out. 

 

Please see this thread which explains what is needed in a signature:

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

What other recent changes have you made in addition to doubling the venlafaxine and tripling the ziprasidone last month? 

 

 

I updated my signature, if I have missed anything I apologize, I'm not trying to.

 

The buspirone I added, it was started Aug 13 2019 at 10mg 3x daily and was increased sept. 11 to 15mg 3x daily.

 

Thank you again,

Genesis

[ChessieCat]

You might find it helpful to write a script and rehearse what you are going to say.  Be calm, gentle but assertive.  You are the customer, it is your body.  Use words like I'd like to try this, or I'd prefer to do it this way.  If a suggestion is made that you don't want to follow, say I'd like to think about it before making a decision.

 

how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect

[Genesis]

4 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

You might find it helpful to write a script and rehearse what you are going to say.  Be calm, gentle but assertive.  You are the customer, it is your body.  Use words like I'd like to try this, or I'd prefer to do it this way.  If a suggestion is made that you don't want to follow, say I'd like to think about it before making a decision.

 

how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect

 

Thank you ChessieCat.  I started writing down a list of things to ask her or things i wanted to say yesterday,  and then the questions starting turning into more like accusations and anger, so I stopped and decided to come back to it later.  Thank you for the link!

 

❤️ Genesis

[Genesis]

sept 19 2019

8:30am   wake up, 6 hours sleep, 125mcg levothyroxine, feeling anxious, slight arrythmia
9:15am   brush teeth, wash face
10am   1200mg gabapentin, 15mg buspirone, 10mg claritin, 0.5mg lorazepam
10:30am   0.5mg lorazepam
11:00am   lovaza 2GM, 150mg venlafaxine, 450mg oxcarbazepine, 25mg metoprolol, 40mg pantoprazole, 100/25mg losartan/hctz
12:15pm   very anxious - 0.5mg lorazepam, 1000mg tylenol
2:00pm   nap
3:45pm    220mg naproxen, 0.5mg lorazepam, a little anxious
5:00pm   1200mg gabapentin, 15mg buspirone, 25mg metoprolol.. anxious
6:15pm   1000mg tylenol, very anxious, ate
8:30pm   0.5 mg lorazepam
10pm   paranoid, sad, anxious... 60mg ziprasidone, 15mg buspirone
11pm  1200mg gabapentin, 0.5mg lorazepam, sleep
 

[ShiningLight]

7 hours ago, Genesis said:

 

Thank you Shep for being kind.  When all i've had is back steps, it's difficult to care what happens to me.  Most of the last 5 months is me finding reason to fight.  It's extremely hard for me to ask for help, so when I finally do and get treated terribly, it shuts me off.

 

Anytime I speak up to a doctor, the snap back at me asking where I went to school or how many degrees I have.

 

In terms of the difficulty finding reasons to fight, I wonder if the ativan is contributing to some depression. But maybe you'd already be aware of that since you've been on it a long time, I don't know. Just a thought that something other than "you" might be causing you to feel so down. You sound like a real internalizer, like me. Sometimes I like to joke that I feel responsible for everything that happens within a 10 mile radius around me.

 

Never forget that you have lived experience, and that's infinitely more valuable than their degrees--especially where these drugs are concerned. Do you ever take a friend or family (aka "witness") to the doctor's with you? I have found that I often get treated better when I do that.

[Genesis]

18 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

In terms of the difficulty finding reasons to fight, I wonder if the ativan is contributing to some depression. But maybe you'd already be aware of that since you've been on it a long time, I don't know. Just a thought that something other than "you" might be causing you to feel so down. You sound like a real internalizer, like me. Sometimes I like to joke that I feel responsible for everything that happens within a 10 mile radius around me.

 

Definitely decreasing the dose has started the depression.  Taking it for so long was just maintaining it in my system, not relieving any symptoms.

 

Yes, just like you.. I'm definitely an internalizer.  I'm exactly like that, like it's all my fault and guilt for all of it  

 

22 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

Never forget that you have lived experience, and that's infinitely more valuable than their degrees--especially where these drugs are concerned. Do you ever take a friend or family (aka "witness") to the doctor's with you? I have found that I often get treated better when I do that.

 

Sometimes I do bring my mom, but never in the private room.  We both have terrible anxiety.  But, that is a good idea and I will try next time.  Something to prepare for

 

Thank you for your suggestions, I appreciate it.

 

Looks like you've been doing well on your gabapentin taper.  Nice job!

 

❤️ Genesis

[ShiningLight]

10 hours ago, Genesis said:

 

with my insurance i have many options with psych doctors, they all  just seem to throw pills at me.  when i tell them i dont want increases, or want to try new things, they get angry and tell me im non-compliant and that they won't work with me. 

 

It's rare to find a psychiatrist that doesn't do much rx'ing. There are a few in my area, but when I told them my reason for working with them was to titrate off the drugs, they weren't interested in helping me. I guess that was too much work for them; clearly they know it can be a bumpy ride.

 

In the service of wanting to get off medication, a lot of us have chosen to be very mindful about what we share about our symptoms. This is a sad way to have to go, but your observation is correct in that the response is more often than not to throw pills at people. It's kind of like going to a surgeon for a consult: they will almost always recommend surgery! If you don't want the pills and don't want to be accused of being "noncompliant," being mindful about what you share is something to consider. If you want to have someone to talk to about your symptoms, maybe a therapist could help. Although my therapist was not that far off of the doctors too. I fired her. 

 

Although initially scary and stressful to change paradigms, more recently I've found it empowering to not expect a doctor to bail me out with a drug change. I fired my psychiatrist; it's a sympathetic neurologist who is prescribing the gabapentin for me to taper. I am much happier not being in the mental health system. Mind you, this was after decades of therapy. Therapy can be useful in some circumstances for some people, and I would probably go back to it if I felt it would be helpful in the future. For now, I find it to be a waste of time so I am glad to have untangled myself.

[Genesis]

8 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

It's rare to find a psychiatrist that doesn't do much rx'ing. There are a few in my area, but when I told them my reason for working with them was to titrate off the drugs, they weren't interested in helping me. I guess that was too much work for them; clearly they know it can be a bumpy ride.

 

In the service of wanting to get off medication, a lot of us have chosen to be very mindful about what we share about our symptoms. This is a sad way to have to go, but your observation is correct in that the response is more often than not to throw pills at people. It's kind of like going to a surgeon for a consult: they will almost always recommend surgery! If you don't want the pills and don't want to be accused of being "noncompliant," being mindful about what you share is something to consider. If you want to have someone to talk to about your symptoms, maybe a therapist could help. Although my therapist was not that far off of the doctors too. I fired her. 

 

Although initially scary and stressful to change paradigms, more recently I've found it empowering to not expect a doctor to bail me out with a drug change. I fired my psychiatrist; it's a sympathetic neurologist who is prescribing the gabapentin for me to taper. I am much happier not being in the mental health system. Mind you, this was after decades of therapy. Therapy can be useful in some circumstances for some people, and I would probably go back to it if I felt it would be helpful in the future. For now, I find it to be a waste of time so I am glad to have untangled myself.

 

You are absolutely right.  

 

It's hard to take a mirror to yourself and realize you are the one exacerbating your own problems.  It's an unfortunate realization, but an extremely important one.  I can't even begin to realize what I could have avoided before this.

 

I could never thank you enough for helping me see this.  You really are a ShiningLight 

 

❤️❤️ Genesis

[ShiningLight]

1 hour ago, Genesis said:

It's hard to take a mirror to yourself and realize you are the one exacerbating your own problems.

 

Well, you are one, but you are not the only one exacerbating your own problems--not by far! We all got here from doctors, big pharma, some very effective ad campaigns, and the resulting societal brainwashing! I am learning to change my relationship with doctors through this site and I found it to be very helpful. [Most of that change has been to stay as far away as possible ]

 

You are so right that it's hard to wake up. I feel like I'm in a parallel universe sometimes. And it's lonely out there when so many are brainwashed. The Finding Meaning forum "Dealing with the lost years and moving forward" thread is one of my favorites. I signed right up after reading it!

 

I am happy to know that my words are helpful and of comfort to you. There are a lot of wonderful people here who are very inspiring. The more you participate, the more you will get to know them and they will get to know you. This is a special place. I'm so glad you're here.

[ShiningLight]

Whatever you do, don't cold turkey the medication and don't speed things up unless recommended here or there is a truly life threatening situation. I have found very sound advice to be offered on this site. My little adventure in trying to speed things up is resulting in a 2 month hold at least, instead of a one month hold.

[Genesis]

10 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

I am happy to know that my words are helpful and of comfort to you. There are a lot of wonderful people here who are very inspiring. The more you participate, the more you will get to know them and they will get to know you. This is a special place. I'm so glad you're here.

 

Very much so...

 

I will try my best.  It's always hard for me to speak, whether in person or online.

 

I'm very glad you're here as well ❤️ 

 

Genesis

[Genesis]

3 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

Whatever you do, don't cold turkey the medication and don't speed things up unless recommended here or there is a truly life threatening situation. I have found very sound advice to be offered on this site. My little adventure in trying to speed things up is resulting in a 2 month hold at least, instead of a one month hold.

 

I've fallen into that trap already, so even though I am impatient, I am trying my best to wait

[Shep]

On 9/20/2019 at 2:47 PM, Genesis said:

I will start reducing ziprasidone.

 

On 9/18/2019 at 12:26 AM, Genesis said:

She tells me she is going to cut my prescription every month, by 10 pills.

 

I'm concerned you're going to start reducing ziprasidone while your prescriber is threatening such inhumane action regarding your lorazepam.

 

You are getting stellar advice regarding working with doctors from ShiningLight and ChessieCat, so you know how to talk to a doc. But I'm wondering if you might want to look for a better doctor. i checked the Mad in America Provider Directory for Orlando and they don't have anyone listed there. There are three listed in the state of Florida, but it will take a drive to get there. 

 

Mad in America Provider Directory - Florida

 

You could call and see if they know anyone closer to you. Only one of them is an MD and can prescribe, but they all may be familiar with local docs known for people wise to withdrawal. 

 

This is the recommended doctors list off SA:

 

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

There's one listed in Florida:

 

On 7/18/2015 at 8:53 AM, KT38 said:

Kathleen Carroll, MD

Psychiatrist

336 E Bloomingdale Ave, Brandon, FL 33511
(813) 689-2466

 

This is about 1.5 hours from where you live. Might be worth a call. 
 

SA also has a "check in" thread so you can connect with other people in your area. Members there may be able to recommend someone near you. 

 

Tampa Bay/Orlando members, please check in here

 

 

 

[Genesis]

52 minutes ago, Shep said:

I'm concerned you're going to start reducing ziprasidone while your prescriber is threatening such inhumane action regarding your lorazepam.

 

Yes, I was starting to reduce the ziprasidone... but if I should just hold off until I'm done with the lorazepam I will wait.

 

53 minutes ago, Shep said:

You could call and see if they know anyone closer to you. Only one of them is an MD and can prescribe, but they all may be familiar with local docs known for people wise to withdrawal. 

 

This is the recommended doctors list off SA:

 

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

There's one listed in Florida:

 

I looked up Dr. Carroll and it isn't a far drive, but I'm concerned she doesn't take my insurance.  I will call Monday and make sure.  Thank you so much Shep for showing me her information, I appreciate it.

 

❤️ Genesis

[ShiningLight]

6 hours ago, Genesis said:

 

I've fallen into that trap already, so even though I am impatient, I am trying my best to wait

 

Don't do it.  It can blow up and cause severe withdrawal and akisthesia. You never know how close to the line you are in terms of stability until you're on the unstable side. Brain does a very good job of compensating until it can't. It doesn't always give a warning before a crash. Going slow IS the fast way. 

[Genesis]

37 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

Don't do it.  It can blow up and cause severe withdrawal and akisthesia. You never know how close to the line you are in terms of stability until you're on the unstable side. Brain does a very good job of compensating until it can't. It doesn't always give a warning before a crash. Going slow IS the fast way. 

 

Hey ShiningLight

 

That's the scary part.  You don't know when you've gone too far.  

 

Have you tapered 2 drugs at once?  I was starting to but I'm hoping that isn't too much at once.

[Genesis]

sept 20, 2019

 

11:30am      levothyroxine 125mcg
12:30pm     lorazepam 0.5mg, sad and weepy
1pm     1200mg gabapentin, 15mg buspirone
1:30pm    25mg metoprolol, 2GM lovaza, 450mg oxcarbazepine, 100/25mg losartan/HCTZ, 150mg venlafaxine 
4pm    0.5mg lorazepam. better since morning.  no heart arrythmia.  menstrual cramping, but avoiding OTC pain meds
7pm    1200mg gabapentin, 15mg buspirone, 25mg metoprolol
8pm     0.5mg lorazepam
9:45pm    0.5mg lorazepam, a little tense but nothing bad
11pm     54mg ziprasidone, first liquid taper.. feel strange after
11:30pm     started feeling sad
12am    1200mg gabapentin, 25mg metoprolol, 450mg oxcarbazepine, 15mg buspirone, 0.5mg lorazepam.  tired.
1am-   sleep
 

[ShiningLight]

8 hours ago, Genesis said:

 

Hey ShiningLight

Have you tapered 2 drugs at once?  I was starting to but I'm hoping that isn't too much at once.

 

I was on the gabapentin taper, was put on klonopin, then regretted that, so I held the gabapentin dose for awhile while I fast tapered the klonopin (thankfully this worked ok due to short use. It was a gamble.). Then I held the gaba taper for a few months after finishing tapering the klonopin. Usually they recommend starting one taper, finishing that one, and moving on to the next.

 

Keep posting your logs, the mods will help you develop a plan. Don't recommend tapering 2 drugs at once because then you don't know what causes what. But the mods can advise you about your particular situation.

 

Give yourself lots of credit for restraining yourself from jumping into a fast taper or cold turkey! It takes a lot of discipline to refrain from doing that. It's so much better if you do your best not to ever go over the edge into a horrific symptom level because once that happens, you've lost all control of the situation and all you can do is nondrug coping skills if you're able, and sit and wait.

 

When I feel impatient about having to slow taper, it helps to remind myself that for many years I thought it was totally acceptable to be on the drugs, so why the rush now? [I mean, I know why the rush now, but it still helps me to tell myself that.]

 

Just keep putting one foot in front of the other! You are doing a lot of emotional work in coming to terms with this, so give yourself credit for that too!

[Shep]

13 hours ago, Genesis said:

I looked up Dr. Carroll and it isn't a far drive, but I'm concerned she doesn't take my insurance.  I will call Monday and make sure.  Thank you so much Shep for showing me her information, I appreciate it.

 

Check to see if you can submit the paperwork to your insurance as an out-of-network provider. If not, you may want to see if Dr. Carroll works on a sliding scale. 

 

Let us know what you find out. 

 

12 hours ago, Genesis said:

Have you tapered 2 drugs at once?  I was starting to but I'm hoping that isn't too much at once.

 

Please don't taper anything further. You're still recovering from your recent benzo reduction from 3 mg to 2.5 mg just a week ago. That's around a 17% reduction, which by itself is way too fast. So tapering another drug taper right now is not a good idea. It's likely too much for your already traumatized nervous system to handle. 

 

Focus on finding a good provider who can keep you on the benzo as long as you need to do a slow taper. 

 

As ShiningLight mentions, we recommend one drug at a time in most cases. 

[Altostrata]

On 9/20/2019 at 7:47 PM, Genesis said:

I will start reducing ziprasidone.

 

Buspirone was added august 13 because i told her while i was decreasing the lorazepam i was having anxiety and it was getting unbearable.  she put me on buspirone to help with anxiety.  i see now, a little late, she has no idea what she is doing.  i am already planning to see another clinic, with an actual Dr.  with my insurance i have many options with psych doctors, they all  just seem to throw pills at me.  when i tell them i dont want increases, or want to try new things, they get angry and tell me im non-compliant and that they won't work with me.  so i have to find new ones.

 

Anxiety is a common withdrawal symptom when you are reducing a Benzo. Did you stop reducing the Benzo? How much are you taking now, at what times of day?

 

Quote

 

Aug 13 2019   buspirone  30mg t.i.d., increased to 45mg t.i.d. sept 11 2019

2019   oxcarbazepine   450mg b.i.d.

2001   venlafaxine XR  150mg increased  sept 11 2019  from 75mg 

2006   ziprasidone    60mg increased sept 11 2019  from 20mg --- taper sept 20 2019 54mg

2014   Gabapentin     1200mg t.i.d.

1999   lorazepam      start 3mg  taper sept 15 2019 - 2.5mg 

2017   metoprolol     25mg t.i.d.

1998   levothyroxine   125mcg

2018   losartan/hctz  100/25mg

2015   lovaza 2GM

2001-2019  trazodone | 2001-2019  divalproex sodium

 

 

Since you increased Buspirone, venlafaxine, and ziprasidone only 11 days ago, you can go back to the pre-September 11 dosages quickly. I believe that would be 30mg Buspirone, 75mg venlafaxine, 20mg ziprasidone. This will reduce your drug burden significantly.

 

However, we need to get the Benzo situation settled before you change other drugs. @Shep, what do you think?

 

From now on, I strongly advise you to tell your doctors you are taking unnecessary polypharmacy and in these situations, "non-compliance" doesn't mean anything. Your health is endangered by excessive drugs. You have the right to refuse prescriptions from them.

[Shep]

Sorry, Genesis, I had posted not to taper anything yet because I was focusing on the benzo, but please take a look at what Alto posted about your other drugs.

 

I copied the below posts to give a timeline for your recent changes below. Do you feel comfortable reducing back to where you were prior to Sept 11 for the buspirone and prior to last month for the venlafaxine and ziprasidone?  This sounds like a very good plan for overall reduction of your drug burden. 

 

I'm also concerned about the benzo but haven't recommended updosing yet because you haven't found a provider. Please do give an update on this because it will determine how you proceed going forward. 

 

For now, please go ahead and make the reductions in the other drugs. 

 

On 9/18/2019 at 12:26 AM, Genesis said:

So out of fear, I cut myself from 3x daily, to 2.5 [lorazepam]. This was Sept 15 2019, today is Sept 18 2019. 

 

On 9/20/2019 at 3:36 PM, Genesis said:

The buspirone I added, it was started Aug 13 2019 at 10mg 3x daily and was increased sept. 11 to 15mg 3x daily.

 

On 9/19/2019 at 10:32 PM, Genesis said:

i was able to get down to 75mg venlafaxine and 20mg ziprasidone.  then last month she upped them from 150mg venlafaxine and 60mg ziprasidone.

 

 

 

[Genesis]

11 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Anxiety is a common withdrawal symptom when you are reducing a Benzo. Did you stop reducing the Benzo? How much are you taking now, at what times of day?

 

I was at 3mg and recently had gotten it back down to 2.5mg, so instead of splitting the 1mg tablets, I started the liquid titration yesterday but just holding my daily dosage of 2.5mg, but splitting the liquid across 6-10 doses per day, depending on what I find works best for me.  I really have not had any issues other than anxiety, but I can manage that on my own.

 

16 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Since you increased Buspirone, venlafaxine, and ziprasidone only 11 days ago, you can go back to the pre-September 11 dosages quickly. I believe that would be 30mg Buspirone, 75mg venlafaxine, 20mg ziprasidone. This will reduce your drug burden significantly.

 

I also had this thought, but was unsure of changing so many at once.  I was fine at the previous dosages, I just needed time to level out.  

 

17 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

From now on, I strongly advise you to tell your doctors you are taking unnecessary polypharmacy and in these situations, "non-compliance" doesn't mean anything. Your health is endangered by excessive drugs. You have the right to refuse prescriptions from them.

 

I definitely agree with you.  I will do that from now on  

 

Thank you so much for your help Altostrata.

 

❤️ Genesis

 

[Genesis]

3 minutes ago, Shep said:

I copied the below posts to give a timeline for your recent changes below. Do you feel comfortable reducing back to where you were prior to Sept 11 for the buspirone and prior to last month for the venlafaxine and ziprasidone?  This sounds like a very good plan for overall reduction of your drug burden. 

 

I'm also concerned about the benzo but haven't recommended updosing yet because you haven't found a provider. Please do give an update on this because it will determine how you proceed going forward. 

 

Hi Shep, I read your post while responding to Alto.

 

Yes, I do agree and I'm fine with that.  I had been struggling whether I should do that so the confirmation is nice

 

I'm also concerned about the benzo, but I will hold until I can see a new pdoc.

 

Thank you for your help!

 

❤️ Genesis 

[Genesis]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

Check to see if you can submit the paperwork to your insurance as an out-of-network provider. If not, you may want to see if Dr. Carroll works on a sliding scale. 

 

Let us know what you find out. 

 

 

Sorry just saw this..

 

I can try that, and still call Monday and ask.  I will post when I find something out.

 

Thanks again,

 

Genesis

[Altostrata]

5 minutes ago, Genesis said:

I was at 3mg and recently had gotten it back down to 2.5mg, so instead of splitting the 1mg tablets, I started the liquid titration yesterday but just holding my daily dosage of 2.5mg, but splitting the liquid across 6-10 doses per day, depending on what I find works best for me.  I really have not had any issues other than anxiety, but I can manage that on my own.

 

 

Please do not take lorazepam on an inconsistent schedule, att @Shep

[Genesis]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please do not take lorazepam on an inconsistent schedule, att @Shep

 

I'm not, I had heard being on the liquid that some people on short-acting benzos can take up to that many, but i havent.  I'm still at the same dosing through the day