BeWell: AD taper

[BeWell]

@Altostrata and the trouble swallowing thing. And extreme anxiety. Peripheral neuropathy started 4 years ago in my feet..with no know cause..that’s why we started to try and taper....

[BeWell]

@Altostrata my body hurts so bad. I am terrified to try and re-instate and terrified not to. That’s why I feel I have no options. My dad is getting pooped. He is 80. Stretching hurts with 100ms of muscle spasms, burning, pain, etc. trouble breathing. Tension.

[BeWell]

@Altostrata couldn’t walk yesterday with joint pain in knee.

[BeWell]

@Altostrata Thank you for trying to help me. I am unable to calm down right now. Something needs to happen. 

[BeWell]

@Shep wasn’t stirring my dropper of liquid Valium into juice. Just splashing it on top. Not able to fill the tip of the dropper? Does this mean I decreased? What a nightmare. My w/d’s continue to worsen. Why was I given a benzo? My dr. Knows I am in recovery and abused them10 years ago. What w/d am I fighting now???? When will I stop crawling out of skin? Pain decrease? SI decrease? Hospital dropped me 25%. We updosed 25%. Switched straight over to liquid. And screwed that up appaently too. This Valium is messing with my head and my body. I am fighting for my life 24/7..and it is getting harder and harder................read about the stirring on line...box said just drop it in juice or pudding or something. I need to stabilize. I need help. 

[BeWell]

Seriously so agitated. What the heck is making my so insane???????? 

[ChessieCat]

Providing daily symptom notes can help the mods try to work out what might be happening.  They need at least 3 consecutive days to see if there is any pattern.

 

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Nobody else can do these for you.  You need to try different things to find what works for you.  It's a good idea to set a reminder so that you can practice things throughout the day.  You may not notice any difference straight away, but it is important to try to calm your system down even just for a short periods of time throughout the day.  Once you have started doing something regularly it becomes more automatic.

 

I understand that it might not be easy to do, but it can help.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

 

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

[Shep]

6 hours ago, BeWell said:

@Shep wasn’t stirring my dropper of liquid Valium into juice. Just splashing it on top. Not able to fill the tip of the dropper? Does this mean I decreased? What a nightmare. My w/d’s continue to worsen. Why was I given a benzo? My dr. Knows I am in recovery and abused them10 years ago. What w/d am I fighting now????

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "not able to fill the tip of the dropper". Is something wrong with your medicine dropper? As long as you are adding the correct amount of liquid Valium into the juice and you are drinking all of the juice, then you are getting the correct dose.

 

To answer your question - "What w/d am I fighting now????":

 

Right now, you are fighting yourself. Yes, you do have a great deal of pain and intense emotions from the chemical assault of the drugs, but you are also fighting yourself by insisting that there's nothing you can do to help yourself. 

 

Please read what Alto posted here and do the video. It's only 1 minute long. Here is a direct link to that video and I'm going to add a second one called Legs Up the Wall:

 

Yoga Minute" Downward Facing Dog Top of Chair video (1 minute)

 

Legs Up The Wall - Foundations of Yoga video (7 minutes)

 

Also, listen to these two short podcasts that ChessieCat posted: 

 

6 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

If you continue to fight yourself, to stay hunched over a cell phone for 11 hours a day (as you posted earlier), your pain is only going to get worse. 

 

Do the two gentle yoga videos and listen to two podcasts today. That's only a total of 16 minutes. That's all that's requested of you to do. 

 

Your drug history is much longer than what you have in your signature. You've spent many years using drugs and alcohol to self soothe. If you do want off these drugs, you're going to have to learn how to self soothe without any form of chemicals. 

 

What Alto, Chessie, and I have posted will help you get started. This is a process, but half the battle is simply to get started. 

[BeWell]

@Shep It said the liquid had to be stirred  in. I wasnt doing that. Starting from my first  dose..a week ago? The tip wouldn’t fill..so now I eyeball it and make sure the tip is never filled. Because that’s the way I started it.  Sometimes it will fill..other times not. So..I have most likely decreased. I am scared. I don’t know what to do now. It’s very hard to do..pull the med. I use the dropper that came with the med. Thanks for the homework. We will see. I don’t care about anything at the moment. And am too weak and in pain and hopeless to get out of bed. Please advise on the dropper. I think I have made a big error. And please remember, it’s just me here..fighting for my life. So..I am not in W/D? This is all in my head and my body? My mood is obviously very low. And SI stronger than ever. Sorry to vent. No one else wants to hear about my suffering. I need help.

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, BeWell said:

So..I am not in W/D? This is all in my head and my body?

 

Please be sure to carefully read what the mods post.  Shep has already explained this in her last post:

 

10 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Yes, you do have a great deal of pain and intense emotions from the chemical assault of the drugs

 

 

 

3 hours ago, BeWell said:

Thanks for the homework. We will see.

 

As I've already stated, only you can do this.

 

Here's a place to start, and please post telling us about it, because calming yourself and self soothing are an important part of the recovery process:

 

Listening to an audio can be done whilst you are in bed.  No physical activity required.  I suggest that you choose one of the First Aid for Panic audios and listen to it at least 3 times during the day.  Set a reminder on your phone.  The 2 audios are the same, except that one is by a female and the other male.  Listen to both of them and decide which one you prefer.   I also suggest that you listen to the Claire Weekes audios, and again no physical activity required.

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

OR

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

AND

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

And there are many YouTube videos as well, some of them very short.  Go to YouTube and search Claire Weekes to find them.

 

I also strongly suggest that you check out the diagram on Page 1.  You do not have to read the who document at this time, just read the labels attached to the diagram of the body:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

[BeWell]

I will try. I have major tinnitus and listening to any sound is very upsetting. I do not have a computer or printer. I have 0 concentration. I listened to a couple mins of the female panic voice. The depression I have is so severe and the SI. And the physical deformities that started in Jan. I am very angry about my cold turkeys.,basically and many switches. And fear that the benzo is making my depression worse. I’ve got this site..with no friends yet..pretty obvious why..and one phone a friend all telling me to buck up..like that is how you help someone with severe depression????  C’mon people. I found this site too late...and we all know it...

[BeWell]

I thank you for the effort. Everyone tried. But, my mental illness and w/d’s are not responding to self help.

[BeWell]

I read it. I have all this in my bed - the anxiety and depression and w/d’s. I was fine before the drugs were ripped away. I am very confused. I was 100%..participating in ADL’s. Now..I will not even leave my bedroom..due to AKA, agitation, depression, nothingness, go outside. Drive. Be alone - well I stay in my bed. I haven’t washed my hair in 2 weeks. And washing my body is maybe weekly..with someone on speaker. I can not handle the stimulation or something. I am not sure. 

[Altostrata]

On 5/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, Altostrata said:

Did you ever discuss reinstating a bit of SSRI, such as Prozac, with your doctor? Why did you switch from Prozac to Zoloft?

 

Why did the hospital switch you from Prozac to Zoloft? Were you having an adverse reaction to Prozac?

 

It sounds like you may have Prozac withdrawal even though you were taking Zoloft, then other drug changes on top of that, which scrambled your nervous system.

 

I don't know what an increase in diazepam will do, we don't treat people with benzos, we help them taper.

[BeWell]

@Altostrata - I was having w/d’s from the liquid Prozac. I had been tapering very gradually. But, because I was making tiny cuts..I didn’t think it could be the Prozac. Or they caught up with me. Complicated by TMS..which I stopped abruptly as well. Several life changes as well. Huge stress. My sister and brother-in-law convinced me it was only anxiety. I started having insomnia, hallucinations - of sensations and feelings on the skin. Nightmares. Ear pain, flushing, body pain. My regular prescriber offered me no re-assurance or thoughts on updosing. Had physiatrist upside me a tiny bit. Starts getting really tight muscles, hyper - alerting. Lost appetite. Nausea. Dry-heaving. Now, what I know as AKA. And fear and anxiety like no other. The mental hospital told me I was no on enough Prozac and that “this was me”..and ditch Prozac. And that Zoloft would help with female hormones as well. I was not suicidal at this point. Hallucinations. D/P. D/R. But, I knew all of it wasn’t real. Definition of crazy vs not crazy. Mood stabilized a little after Zoloft but not the burning in my feet. Extreme muscle tightness. Like, I couldn’t shake it out. Plugged into a socket, etc. Felt a little “high”. I had the flushing start with the Prozac and the am cortisol rushes etc. I was on a very low dose of Prozac. Under 4mg at one point. Went up a bit..but, wasn’t stabilizing and I didn’t understand. Shep has me updose 3mg to 4mg of Valium out of the hospital? The hospital took away 1mg. 4mg to 3mg. I had no choice. I was there a week due to being suicidal. I still am. Back in Sept - Prozac updosed a tiny. Hospital gave me 10mg. Then dropped it. Put me on 25mg Zoloft..4-5 date later 50mg. Tried this for 4-5 weeks. My body hurt. My feet were burning in the night. I think I was the only sane one in that hospital. Although, the only one not sleeping. Sorry to ramble. My dr who does believe in withdrawals more so from Benzos. Took me off in 4-5 weeks with 50% drops and then 100 % drop. So..we could let my body heal....saw him weekly after that and he had no clue to offer me a re-instatement. Other than Valium 3 plus months later. Which just makes me sick now..sick that I am on benzo. The Prozac ended the end of sept. The Zoloft 12/23/18. The TD in foot. And dystonia. And everything else started getting worse and worse. I was still doing a little driving about 2 months ago. I am so far away from my last dose of SSRI. I currently feel like my right foot is being crushed and squeezed to death. Gosh, I would give anything to know what to do..to trust a decision. 

[BeWell]

I was crossed straight over from Cymbalta to Prozac to finish that taper. We had thought it was causing some mania. But, the neuropathy in my feet - burning, tingling..4 plus years ago is why we started tapering off all the meds.

[Altostrata]

22 minutes ago, BeWell said:

Had physiatrist upside me a tiny bit. Starts getting really tight muscles, hyper - alerting. Lost appetite. Nausea. Dry-heaving.

...

Back in Sept - Prozac updosed a tiny. Hospital gave me 10mg.

 

Is this the same incident? Hospital physiatrist updosed Prozac to 10mg, that's when the bad symptoms started?

[BeWell]

@Altostrata bottom line..both mental hospitals did not believe in w/d’s. I did not discuss re-instatement of SSRI with him. He wanted to put me on Amitriptyline. I already have toes that move on their own and hands that are cramping and spasming as well. And I feel severely arthritic. I am so scared to move in any direction. But, I am going to have to..to attempt to save my life.

[BeWell]

@altostrata..the bad symtoms started in August. Late August. I had done about 2@ seasons of TMS..started deceasing Prozac liquid ever so slightly. Started going to ER..two trips..then went to sisters..then came home to go to hospital. They convinced me that it was my anxiety and not the meds.

[BeWell]

@Altostrata see above post - 20 sessions of TMS..something happened then..with the Prozac taper..never went back..something happened in that machine..the hyperalerting/ freaking out..August..destabilized..

[Altostrata]

I am trying to ascertain your experience with Prozac. Did your more severe symptoms start with the updose to 10mg?

[BeWell]

@Altostrata I apologize to be unclear. Updosed a .4 ml or so three weeks before mental hospital. Hospital took me up to 10mg for a day..then the Zoloft. It’s all a blur..because I have been ill since August in all reality. However, the last few months have been the worst...I will not leave the bed. Or go anywhere. Toilet and fridge.

[BeWell]

Not completely sure. I was dry heaving and very ill in the mental hospital end of sept/aug.

[BeWell]

@Altostrata I was there 9 days..couldn’t eat or sleep..none of the days were good. It’s all a blur. Physical/mental/emotional has gotten worse and worse. I am in a fetal position around the clock. Trying to figure this out.

[Altostrata]

Was August when you were in the hospital? You haven't put dates on these statements, I don't know when it was you took 10mg Prozac.

 

This is from your signature:

Quote

Fluoxetine 10mg (?) maybe (5mg) August 2017-October 2018

 

Were you taking fluoxetine from August 2017-October 2018? In what August did your worse symptoms start? August 2017 or August 2018? When did your dose go up to 10mg?

[BeWell]

@Altostrata There was a tiny updose of Prozac before mental hospital. There was the big jump - one day at the mental hospital. Before they threw me on the zoloft. CT’d the Prozac.

[Altostrata]

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Were you taking fluoxetine from August 2017-October 2018? In what August did your worse symptoms start? August 2017 or August 2018? When did your dose go up to 10mg?

 

[BeWell]

@Altostrata 10 mg was given to me at the hospital 

end of Sept/Oct. I know it was befkre Halloween. 

[BeWell]

August 2018 symtoms worsened. All heck broke loose. 10mg given to me end of Sept/ beg Oct 2018

[BeWell]

Yes 8/17-10-18 Prozac generic liquid. It was to stabilize me from Cymbajta taper.

[Altostrata]

You may wish to discuss this with your doctor

 

[BeWell]

@Altostrata Thank you for that note. I suffered a reaction to that drug. My Doctor was the only one that figured it out. I was poly drugged at the time from the Psychiatrist’s office. I saw bad things in my head, bad faces on people. Sensations of things on my skis. “Hallucinations” he called them. D/R. They started one night out of the blue. Intrusive thoughts. It was unreal.They went away some time after the drug was stopped. That was about 4 years ago. 

[Altostrata]

Without going into a great deal of detail about your prior experience with lamotrigine which, if you were on a drug cocktail, sounds ambiguous, you might read the link I gave you and consider a tiny, tiny amount to calm your nervous system.

 

I'm not a neurologist and I don't have any definite answers for you. Please work with your doctor to figure out your treatment.

[BeWell]

@Altostrata Thank you for your effort. He is a just a regular doctor. But, the only one that believes in this stuff just a tiny bit. I thank you for the little bit of hope you gave me tonight. It is gone now again..as I have this nervous system and strong SI and feelings around the clock. Thank you for your time. I appreciate all who tried to help me.

[BeWell]

He just got throws ideas out seeing if they will stick. He wanted to flood my system with Valium. Give me a break from w/d’s and then start the taper. What an idiot.

[Altostrata]

Nobody knows what to do. You might start seeing neurologists, but it may be difficult to find one who will address this.

 

At least your doctor is concerned.

 

A microdose of lamotrigine is my best idea. It's unlikely you ever had a low dose before. The reaction you described is not an allergic reaction, it may have been a drug interaction or too much lamotrigine. Please read links we give you before dismissing the suggestions.