BeWell: AD taper

[BeWell]

Yes. Of course. My w/d’s are really bad right now. The dropper for the liquid Valium is a mess. I went straight over the liquid Valium - no choice. I wasn’t able to fill the tip - from the first dose. Sometimes it will fill..sometimes not. It’s not an ordinary syringe. It just came with the bottle and the box said to use that one. So, needless to say..my dose has been decreased and I have no idea by how much. I got sober 9 years ago because alcohol made me suicidal. I have guarded my sobriety with my life for 9 years. And due to severe w/d’s..did not put it together..there is alcohol in Valium! I do not respond to alcohol like a normal person or psych meds for that matter. No wonder I am getting sicker mentally and physically by the day. My body is screaming for more Valium. I feel so irresponsible. My life is on the line. I threw myself into active addiction. An alcoholic’s disease progresses whether they have drank or not. I am screwed. That would be like an alcoholic saying..I will just have 1/2 a beer and then ween myself off once my nervous system settles down. How do I figure out this dosage thing now? I don’t know what the decrease was/is in the tip of that syringe. How do I proceed from here? I went straight to a liquid on 5/11. And you can see in my signature the entire Valium mess which has just made everything a million times worse in all categories. How do so correct any of this??? I need off the Valium but am in nasty w/d’s from the SSRI’s. God, please help me.

[Shep]

18 hours ago, BeWell said:

It said the liquid had to be stirred  in. I wasnt doing that. Starting from my first  dose..a week ago? The tip wouldn’t fill..so now I eyeball it and make sure the tip is never filled. Because that’s the way I started it.  Sometimes it will fill..other times not.

 

I don't know if there's something wrong with your dropper that came with the liquid Valium, but you may want to use a syringe instead of the dropper. 

 

You can get a syringe from most pharmacies and sometimes they don't even charge for them. For more, please see:

 

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

Since you're interested in a liquid taper, you'll need to learn to use a syringe anyways and it sounds like it could be helpful to use now instead of the dropper. 

 

[BeWell]

@Shep I have a syringe. I have used it in the past tapers. However,  If I start using the syringe now..I don’t know what dose to take..because the dropper has not been accurate since using...and would I rinse the syringe each time or just throw in the box? The dropper sits directiy in the med. Sorry to be such a handful. Doing terrible here. Feel higher than a kite for three hours now..mentally..

 

If I rinse the syringes..it will not dry properly before the next dose..  

 

This is a non refrigerated med. Do I need to shake the liquid Valium?

[BeWell]

@Shep Sorry. I do not know what dose to take now..because it has been off since 5/11 with start of liquid. The dropper was supposed to be all the way full. But, it was impossible to accomplish this. So..I have been taking under .4ml (2mg). The bottle is very small. Do I dump some out to use my syringe or just put in there and hope not to spill? The syringe? There is not a hole in the cap to insert the syringe into. Or wait until tonight’s dose to try and figure it out. What a nightmare. Sorry for the panic. Wish I never started taking this poison again. I have never had these mental isssues in my entire life..

[BeWell]

@Shep @Altostrata@SongbirdI do not want to updose for any reason. I am a mess. I know I will need the syringe sooner vs later. Please advise? The dropper is diff than syringe..how do I correct from here? I am having severe cognitive issues right now.

[Altostrata]

Please confer with your pharmacist about how to convert to using the syringe to measure liquid Valium rather than the dropper.

[BeWell]

Ty. What do most people mix their liquid diazepam with to swallow. The box says juice, pudding, or applesauce. I just read somewhere that it should not be juice? 

[BeWell]

Thank you

[BeWell]

Am I missing something here? Why is my pain level so high in legs and foot with the TD? My pain is a 10. It seems to be joint, muscle, tissue, cramping, tightness. 

[ChessieCat]

25 minutes ago, BeWell said:

Ty. What do most people mix their liquid diazepam with to swallow. The box says juice, pudding, or applesauce. I just read somewhere that it should not be juice? 

 

From https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11116/valium-oral/details/list-interaction-details/dmid-55/dmtitle-avoid-grapefruit-unless-md-instructs-otherwise/intrtype-food

 

Quote

 

While you are taking this medicine, you should avoid eating grapefruit or drink grapefruit juice. You may choose an alternative citrus beverage (such as orange juice).

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by ChessieCat

[BeWell]

@Shep BTW, Thank you for helping me. I thank you and the other mods with all my heart. I am scared. I am alone. And my pain level is very high in my limbs right now. Thank you all. 

[BeWell]

Thank you @ChessieCat I was using cranberry juice. I had read about the grapefruit. I heard it does in fact need to be mixed with something. Stirred. 

[ChessieCat]

From https://www.rxlist.com/cranberry/supplements.htm:

 

Quote

 

 

Medications changed by the liver (Cytochrome P450 2C9 (CYP2C9) substrates)
Interaction Rating: Minor Be cautious with this combination.
Talk with your health provider.

Some medications are changed and broken down by the liver. Some research suggests that cranberry might decrease how quickly the liver breaks down some medications. Taking cranberry along with some medications that are broken down by the liver can increase the effects and side effects of some medications. But, research in this area is not consistent. Before taking cranberry, talk to your healthcare provider if you take any medications that are changed by the liver.

Some medications that are changed by the liver include amitriptyline (Elavil), diazepam (Valium), zileuton (Zyflo), celecoxib (Celebrex), diclofenac (Voltaren), fluvastatin (Lescol), glipizide (Glucotrol), ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin), irbesartan (Avapro), losartan (Cozaar), phenytoin (Dilantin), piroxicam (Feldene), tamoxifen (Nolvadex), tolbutamide (Tolinase), torsemide (Demadex), warfarin (Coumadin), and others.

 

 

[BeWell]

@ChessieCat Thank you. Should I take with almond milk? Or alone silk? I am so confused. I have no pudding or apple sauce. I feel like I re/act to all food and drink. I have lost a ton of weight. Wasn’t big to begin with. I am not well enough to cook and my dad is 80 and can eat anythng and everything. My diet is so poor. I eat sandwhiches pretty much. Banana and grape nuts. 

[ChessieCat]

I think taking it with almond milk would be fine.  I've done a search for almond milk and diazepam and didn't find anything.

[BeWell]

@ChessieCat I see Advil is on that list too. Yikes.

[BeWell]

Thank you

[BeWell]

Excruciating leg pain and foot pain. And body pain. TD in right foot. Something feels very wrong. Why does mum body interpret this as the highest possible pain ever? Is this damage? Is this normal? Why can’t my brain just recognize this as a symptom and deal with it. The pain started before the Valium was introduced. Not this high....Is the Valium messing with the terrible AD withdrawals? Years of improper taper, switches, etc.? 25 years or so of meds. How am I going to make it? 

[BeWell]

I wish I would have found you years ago...😔😔😔 ~ hurting so bad 

[BeWell]

I am severely depressed and anxious and withdrawing. I start to tell my life story on here..and then I hit the delete button. I am at the bottom. It is not safe for me to be alone. It is not safe for me to go to the hospital. I am stuck. It is not safe for me to withdraw the benzo that is adding to the  problem and it is not safe for me to stay on them. It is getting harder and harder to keep fighting...

[BeWell]

Does anyone know of anyone re-instating at 5 months? Not sure what that would be? My doctor would only go off what I suggest? I am severely depressed, severely anxious, severe insomnia, extreme body pain, moving cramping toes - TD - some dystonia, strong SI, intrusive thoughts, severe agitation. Family and friend put me in ER yesterday..the ER would not admit me this time. I am unable to eat, drink, bathe, leave bedroom. Valium maybe be an issue as well. Sooner or later something different needs to be tried if one needs to save their life. 

[BeWell]

And those are just a few of the symptoms. I can barely breathe, chest pressure, heart palps, clenched fists, shoulders. Before any self ~ help can happen there needs to be some stabilization. Not sure what kind of complications this Valium has caused.... 

[BeWell]

I continue to get worse every day....

[BeWell]

Extreme OCD. Paranoia with chemicals in food. Just some depression prior to meds..age 18 or so..

[BeWell]

None of this. I am out of my mind and body 24/7.

[ChessieCat]

The mods will need at least 3 consecutive days of symptoms notes in order to assess your situation and whether reinstating is an option:

 

On 5/16/2019 at 2:46 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Daily symptom notes are the only way we can tell what the drug may be doing. If you don't want to keep notes to answer questions about your symptom pattern, you don't need to, but without that information, we can't do much.

 

[Altostrata]

BeWell, this is my best guess for you.

 

On 5/17/2019 at 8:04 PM, Altostrata said:

Without going into a great deal of detail about your prior experience with lamotrigine which, if you were on a drug cocktail, sounds ambiguous, you might read the link I gave you and consider a tiny, tiny amount to calm your nervous system.

 

I'm not a neurologist and I don't have any definite answers for you. Please work with your doctor to figure out your treatment.

 

You might also start seeing neurologists, you might have to see several before you find one who will deal with iatrogenic conditions.

 

I would not try Prozac, I'm concerned about the risk of kindling.

[BeWell]

@Altostrata & all mods. I appreciate your response very much. Even though I didn’t get the new notes in yet. My physical pain started at 1pm today. It’s been a very long day. It is wide spread. Bones, joints, muscles, tendons, tissues, nerves. I have no idea anymore what’s worse. My arms were burning today and heart palps and dizzy and nauseated and almost vomited trying to get my cat to the driveway in his cage for my daughter to take him to the vet for a bad toenail bleed. On top of the physical pain in arms and limbs.  And of course I couldn’t handle the stress of any of it - the anxiety prove that. On top of intense body pain..in limbs and then a second or two later it turns to jelly and weakness and unsteady for a second or two. It feels like my right foot is being crushed and squeezed to death at this exact moment. My regular doctor has suggested Amitriptyline for the second time today. The last time was a couple weeks ago. He thinks if we could get the depression under control maybe I could handle the withdrawals better. He does believe in that..atleast..withdrawals. And he does UNDERSTAND my hesitancy with adding a TCA or any drug for that matter. I am his first extreme case like this I believe. He also has not seen me when my pain level is through the roof. He did suggest having nerve testing done if I wanted to. Which I had about 4 years ago when it was just my feet that burned. Maybe during a med change or a post w/d..from and old med. Its very sad..but I had a friend over to try to help me and understand this stuff tonight. It was heart wrenching..but we counted atleast 15 meds that I could remember being on. So..this started with my current doctor 20 + years ago..4-5 years ago took my business to a 

Psychiatrist..and was taken from Wellbutrin and and SSRI to 4-5 meds. What was I thinking? My regular dr..has been trying to clean up the mess ever since. I will see if I can find a neurologist maybe with the help of friends and maybe a family member who believes in my illness. I am by know means stable. Mentally or physically. However, my doctor thought..the Valium is not doing much and may be adding to the withdrawals and believes we should start to taper off. I don’t feel like Valium is going to let me off w/out a fight and I am already fighting like hell. The plan was to try it for a week maybe two and then just stop if no relief. And of course, that plan fell through as well. And now I am almost 2 months on that. Due to severe AD w/d’s..most likely very fast dependence on that. History of alcohol abuse, benzo abuse 10 years ago. I am unable to hold my own meds- Because my body and brain are screaming at me for relief.  I am so sorry to ramble..thanks for reading...the only way I can explain it is..my brain is high as a kite w/out the good feelings. It is the most uncomfortable feeling in the world. I feel absolutely poisened. Around the clock. All of it is hell to me honest. I flop around like a fish all night. And maybe get an hour or two of sleep..then it’s a 1/2 asleep..wicked ride every 20 mins or so..until the cortisol or adrenaline or whatever those spikes are called. I’ve got blackout curtains. Ear plugs. The itty bitty lights on cable box or little stereo are like strobe Lights. And my body knows as can feel the light and hear te birds despite all my efforts. And then I am flopping around again...waiting until med time. Last night was 1:00AM to 3:30PM then back to it. There are NO words. There has been no stabilization from the beginning. And increasing Valium is most likely not the answer with depression. I did not discuss the lomotrigine with him. That’s the same  lamictal correct? Which shows as an allergy on my chart. I haven’t ruled it out yet..just terrified of making things worse. Although..most family is not sure thats possible. I’ve got some new family members..trying to find a hospital for me for long term care for mental illness who believe in none of this. Or am crazy? Was this pain there all along? As the meds convered it up? That would leave me with too many medical dx’s to count....

Not stabilizing on Valium..In 0 areas..mental or physical or emotional. My doctor says it is obviously not helping and time to taper off. .3ml am .4ml pm..these are 12 hours apart..8:30am & 8:30pm. He thinks it is adding to w/d’s possibly..if my TD and dystonia are possibly w/d induced...@Shep @Altostrata Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Moving toes, restless legs day and night, aka - physical and mental..some tongue stuff..just to name a few. SI still present. Extreme agitation and rage too..just right there..wanting to burst....

[BeWell]

Sincere apologies re/the length of the above post. I hear you on the no Prozac. I will re-read the lamictal thread as well. Just terrified all the way around. Is this anxiety burning through my body??? Or nerve pain? Or both??? What kind of w/d symptoms would the lamictal possible help with? Or what have you seen it help others with? If it is going to work??? 

[BeWell]

@Shep@Altostrata 

Extreme body pain last night.

flopped around 

Slept 12:15-4am - Been having severe AKA in bed since then. Some involuntary movements I will notice when I close my eyes for a second - not just in my foot. I am unable to keep my body still for even a second. Felt the cortisol rushes several times. I am so exhausted. But, the body and mind just want to move, move, move. Having extreme back pain at the moment x 2 hours.  Is this dystonia or restless body, anxiety, or Akathisia - physical and mental. My Dr. wants me to start to decrease the Valium. Not sure, if this a good idea yet or not..pls review previous two posts. I did not decrease Valium yet..if this is w/d..there is no way I will survive a cut. W/out a plan to manage pain/ aka/ etc....

[Altostrata]

Your symptoms are from autonomic destabilization due to drug adverse effects and withdrawal.I don't know if lamotrigine will work. It is a seizure drug that calms nerves so they don't over-react. Neurologists have experience with lamotrigine

 

I would not play around with the diazepam dosage.

 

We're only a peer support forum, we cannot diagnose, prescribe, or guarantee anything for you. Strongly recommend you work with a neurologist or your own doctor.

[BeWell]

Thank you

[BeWell]

I can not afford to stay on the benzo much longer. I am not stabilizing on the dose anyways. Why would I not taper off???

[BeWell]

I developed tolerance w/in 5 minutes. It didn’t do anything. Except make me want more. 

[BeWell]

Severe Depression. I don’t leave my bed. I don’t change my clothes. I barely eat. I barely sleep. I battle w/d’s 24/7. The Valium and my non-functioning are depressing me even further. I do not leave the house. And the bed rarely. Why wouldn’t you think I should taper off the Valium? As my doctor suggested. It is a depressant. I have every W/D symptom imaginable. I have 0 hope.

[Shep]

Whether your severe symptoms are a side effect of Valium or a withdrawal effect of Valium and / or the AD is unknown. You no doubt are suffering from withdrawal from the previous drugs. 

 

However, you also are suffering from battle fatigue from being acutely ill for so long.

 

You'll have to decide if it's best to slowly taper off the Valium now with the goal of getting off the drug and doing as much self-care as possible. It's possible that even a slow taper will cause withdrawal symptoms that may be worse than the side effects. 

 

But the battle fatigue is real and holding while this ill may cause you to go into a completely exhausted state. 

 

Some people are caught between a rock and a hard place and have to make this very difficult decision - is it better to hold in the hopes of attaining stability or is it better to begin a slow taper? 

 

You'll have to make that call and there really is no right or wrong call, but if you do decide to taper, you may want to start out with a very small 3% reduction to test how you do. 

 

Please post your thoughts.