Maca44: mirtazapine withdraw not going well

[Maca44]

Hello everyone,

Just found your website after searching the net due to problems I'm having coming off Mirtazapine. I have been on 30mg daiy for over 3 years but due to weight gain I wanted to come off so DR said to go 30mg one night 15mg the next for a few weeks and review, it hasn't worked out well for me as I felt OK after the first week so dropped to 15mg per night but had big anxiety issues returning so panicked and tried to go back upto 30mg but found that that made me feel worse, it was like starting on the meds again so it was agreed to try 22 1/2 mg everyday for a month then see how I feel after that. I guess I am panicking at the moment so just want to take time to read up here and try to relax abit and hope things settle down. Looking at the reduction rate here I am way off and taking big hits so I find it reasuring that I gone way too fast reducing and this explains why I feel so rubbish at the moment. One positive is I am not eating well so can shed a few lb's but understand that i need to eat so im sure this will be a short term thing, I don't miss the raging apertite 30mg gave me that's for sure.

 

Any way thanks for listening

[Maca44]

I found that Mirtazapine took about 12 weeks to kick in for me, I was at 15mg for a month then upto 30mg and did find it helpful. It was increased to 45mg but that made my anxiety worse so went back to 30mg and I have been fairly stable for 3yrs. I am now coming off as im sick of the weight gain and hangover first thing. Its not easy to take the decision to come off but it all depends on why you want to, I wouldn't want to rush it as I have because I am struggling and wish I had found this site before I rushed into a big reduction.

[Carmie]

Hi Maca, 

 

Welcome to SA. Yes, going up and down in doses will put you into withdrawals. Our brains like stability, we need to take the same doses at the same time every day. 

 

What date did you start alternating doses? 

 

When did you go back up to 30mg? Did you go straight from 30mg to 22.5mg?

 

How long have you been on 22.5mg now? You said you were going to try that for a month. Have you been doing that for a month now? The only way our brains eventually stabilise again is by staying at one dose for quite some time.

 

When we eventually stabilise, it is recommended to taper by no more than 10% a month. 

 

Could you please fill in a drug signature. Just go to the Read This First section and to the thread entitled “Please Put Your Withdrawal History In Your Signature.” Include the dates too. Thanks a lot. 

 

Please let us know how you’re doing.

 

Take care, sending hugs🤗

[Maca44]

Ok have done the signature but not sure I've done it right as I can't see it.

[Maca44]

A couple of week into dropping from 30mg to 15mg. Its been up and down with bad anxiety and abit of OCD coming back but, being positive, I am pushing through when at times I thought I couldn't make it through the day. Headaches have been on and off but directly related to getting stressed and I have found  local Thai massage place just up the road from me and found that, although painful, I feel amazing after so it relieves my symptoms for a few days and sleep better. I'm not thinking about a further reduction yet until I'm symptom free or near free of them. Replacing med reduction with meditation keeping busy at work and massages. One thing I have noticed reducing is I can taste things better and dont have a hangover first thing just heightened anxiety.  I have underestimated just how powerful this drug is.

[Maca44]

Lots of views but not much support here, is it normally like this ?.

[Maca44]

So looks like I'm talking to myself but will plug away so I look back at my progress.

 

Still not great I have very bad morning anxiety again but its better than feeling the Mirt hangover. I am on 15mg per night but last night I took half so 7.5mg and will take 15mg for rest of week then take 7.5mg two days out of next week so keeping reduction slow. No looking back now I want off of this drug it much more powerful than I thought.

 

Feel free to reply its abit lonely for me here.

[Maca44]

Not sure about all this now, had rotten day at work, only work p/t delivery driving, meds of all things. Got so bad today I almost cried in van, used to pressure but am hyper sensitive to it since reduction, got home in a rage felt like having a tantrum felt very aggressive, which is not me. Thinking of going back to 30mg and wish I never started this reduction, life was a breeze compared to this but at the time I thought I wasn't doing so well.    

[Mewmewkitty]

What symptoms do you have right now, at this very minute?

[Mewmewkitty]

I know this hangover feeling your're describing. I recall it was during my acute phase but it will settle with time.  I have no experience with tapering protocols but my suggestion is to taper correctly. I  did the exact mistake you're describing above as in, well why not just get over with! I urge you to stick to a taper protocol. Going up and down in doses may bring on uncomfortable symptoms so stay on a dose and wait for your body to catch up and stabilize. 

 

Edit; have a read here 

To burst out and cry or feel very aggressive for no reason just over a little thing are very common symptoms

[laydefish]

Hi Maca44, Welcome to the group, I was on different meds from you, but I can say that I encourage you to keep going, since I've quit I've only had improvement-Hang in There!

 

[Maca44]

Thanks

Just being impatient and panicking I'm very hyper sensitive  to anything at the moment so am getting stressed especially at work. Was fine am then got to work they laid aload of stuff on me and that was it, got headache felt stressed so afternoon was crap almost turned around and walked away. Thanks for reply just what I needed. I guess my fear is that I will be back to where I was 3 yrs ago, that was a very dark place but maybe it would have healed on its own if I had not started the medication but at the time I just wanted relief. So maybe I will need to feel that again but without the meds to mask the feelings. Kind of slept ok so head is clear this morning and I hope I can get through the day without stressing too much. The only place I feel safe at the moment is in bed with curtains closed, sure many of you know that feeling.  

[Hopefull]

2 hours ago, Maca44 said:

Thanks

Just being impatient and panicking I'm very hyper sensitive  to anything at the moment so am getting stressed especially at work. Was fine am then got to work they laid aload of stuff on me and that was it, got headache felt stressed so afternoon was crap almost turned around and walked away. Thanks for reply just what I needed. I guess my fear is that I will be back to where I was 3 yrs ago, that was a very dark place but maybe it would have healed on its own if I had not started the medication but at the time I just wanted relief. So maybe I will need to feel that again but without the meds to mask the feelings. Kind of slept ok so head is clear this morning and I hope I can get through the day without stressing too much. The only place I feel safe at the moment is in this ed with curtains closed, sure many of you know that feeling. 

 

Hi Maca 44,

You are not alone in this.  Don't feel discouraged if members of this group don't reply straight away. 

A lot of people are in bad way and get triggered easily. 

I got off Mitrazapine in February.  It took me 4 and a bit years to get off.

What I have learned along the way is that it takes a while to stabilize,  once you make a big drop or increase a dose.

It might take you a while to stabilize. The important thing is that hold your current dose for a while and see how you feel. 

Remember that you will heal but it will take a while. 

Take care,  Hopefull. 

[Maca44]

5 minutes ago, Hopefull said:

 

Hi Maca 44,

You are not alone in this.  Don't feel discouraged if members of this group don't reply straight away. 

A lot of people are in bad way and get triggered easily. 

I got off Mitrazapine in February.  It took me 4 and a bit years to get off.

What I have learned along the way is that it takes a while to stabilize,  once you make a big drop or increase a dose.

It might take you a while to stabilize. The important thing is that hold your current dose for a while and see how you feel. 

Remember that you will heal but it will take a while. 

Take care,  Hopefull. 

Thanks

Yes I understand that people can't always reply but I guess its the very selfish side of anxiety/fear, you just want it to go NOW so don't think about others. I have got to stop thinking about either dropping dose or increasing for now and be patient, if I can get it into my head that this is going to take months not days to heal then perhaps I can move forward. 

[Maca44]

Had a nice window yesterday so enjoyed it, I was working under pressure but got a buzz out of it so a good afternoon into evening. I tend to see any window as alien and constantly ask myself when I am going to feel bad again, kind of like waiting for it to start then of course if I think this way for long I will start feeling crap again. Its almost as if I feel I don't deserve to feel well ?  Odd thinking isn't it.

[Maca44]

Just keeping up with my story so I can look back and hopefully see improvement.

Still in a window but its partially open so I'm coping with the anxiety/fear well on 15mg of Mirt and able to face people at work, I find the more I engage with people the more I forget feeling bad. Sleep is up and down, I was up at 3am sitting downstairs then sleep was poor after that. Still getting headaches but these are definitely related to muscle tension in forehead and directly connected to how anxious I am also I have bad tension in my neck due to driving at work and poor posture when sleeping, I like to have 2 pillows so neck is not straight in bed. Miss my Thai massage today as she can't fit me in so will have to wait until next week, I find massage, although aggressive, really sorts me out for a couple of days.

Anyways look after yourselves.

[Maca44]

Was actually glad of the stress of work it took my mind off things would rather be at work than at home at the moment which is sad really.

[Maca44]

More windows than waves for now but still getting lots of tension so off for another aggressive Thai massage this week, not sure the pain of the massage takes my mind off the pains of withdraw, whatever happens I feel amazing after.  Keep thinking about dropping dose again I find it so hard to think about a long reduction. I really want this drug out of my system so I keep changing my mind with regards to how much to drop, I just want to goto 7.5mg of Mirt from the 15mg I'm on now. I see some come off over years and I just don't want to drag it out that long for me that is too much time focussing on the drug and not getting on with life drug free. I understand some need to do it over years but I just couldn't do it. Not sure what to do now. 

[AlanC]

On 5/7/2019 at 8:10 PM, Maca44 said:

Not sure about all this now, had rotten day at work, only work p/t delivery driving, meds of all things. Got so bad today I almost cried in van, used to pressure but am hyper sensitive to it since reduction, got home in a rage felt like having a tantrum felt very aggressive, which is not me. Thinking of going back to 30mg and wish I never started this reduction, life was a breeze compared to this but at the time I thought I wasn't doing so well.    

 

The out of character rage is probably the single most frightening symptom I've experienced, and I'm really sorry to hear you've suffered the same. It's probably coincidence, but it was Mirtazapine that caused it in me as well.

 

Please, follow the advice of the moderators and taper the doses slowly. I'm an example of what can happen if you go too fast - and I'm not the worst by a long way. It really isn't worth the risk.

[Maca44]

Yes the rage thing is something I'm trying to get to grips with by not escalating things that stress me out, like being on the road alot for work. Kind of working at the moment but I'm expecting it to get worse over the next couple of weeks as I have just dropped dose again. Will see how it pans out, wish me luck.

[Maca44]

Hi

Just updating my reduction. So went from 15mg of Mirt down to 7.5mg, this is day 3 of this reduction. Now getting restless leg at night where my leg keeps jerking when falling asleep, not had this before and surprised that I'm getting new symptoms the lower I go. No big deal just annoying I suppose. Hope your all doing well.  

[ChessieCat]

You've made a 50% reduction (15mg to 7.5mg), after making a 50% reduction back in March this year (30mg to 15mg).  Withdrawal symptoms are a sign that you are reducing too quickly.

 

SA's recommended taper rate is no more than 10% of current dose followed by a 4 week hold.  You might want to consider updosing.  My suggestion would be to  go up to 13.5mg, which is what you would have been taking if you had reduced 15mg by 10% (15mg x 0.9)

[Maca44]

49 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

You've made a 50% reduction (15mg to 7.5mg), after making a 50% reduction back in March this year (30mg to 15mg).  Withdrawal symptoms are a sign that you are reducing too quickly.

 

SA's recommended taper rate is no more than 10% of current dose followed by a 4 week hold.  You might want to consider updosing.  My suggestion would be to  go up to 13.5mg, which is what you would have been taking if you had reduced 15mg by 10% (15mg x 0.9)

I do really value the advice but the problem for me is when I tried to updose before it made me feel worse and the updose side affects were worse than down dose SA. I have 15mg tablets so can cut in half ok but cutting again makes the tablet just crumble so I end up with a powdery mess. For me, I feel alot of the withdraw SA are partly anxiety related not actual physical withdraw symptoms, not saying for a moment that I am dismissing the withdraw problems people are getting but looking at the amount of time some have been off the medication I would suggest that alot of it is anxiety rather than physical withdraw. I have no option but to cut by this amount as my body just does not like the lower doses. I was ok on 30mg but as soon as I dropped and got used to it going back up just isn't going to work for me.

[Maca44]

So, now feel stable on 15mg and headaches almost gone so the plan is to cut to 7.5mg in two weeks and see how that goes. Anxiety is up but I expected that to happen and just need to deal with it drug free at some point. Onwards and upwards.

 

Hope your all doing OK.   

Edited May 23, 2019 by Gridley

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Maca44 said:

So, now feel stable on 15mg and headaches almost gone so the plan is to cut to 7.5mg in two weeks and see how that goes.

 

The rate of your taper is, of course, your own decision, and you know your body better than anyone.  But I'm concerned about your next 50% drop to 7.5mg.  Withdrawal symptoms can be delayed and they can also catch up with you.  We have found that it's especially important to taper slowly at the lower doses.

 

 I understand about the difficulty of cutting the pills, but have you considered ordering an AWS Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon in the UK?  That would enable you to weigh your doses and taper more slowly.  Or you could switch to a liquid.  Information about both methods is in this link:

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

[manymoretodays]

Hi Maca,

I concur with Gridley.  Slow down.  Unfortunately, ones nervous system doesn't re-calibrate all too quickly, if one gives it a jolt.  It's so much easier on one, to just go slow, and bask in some stability.  Truly!

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple, slow, and stable

 

Your signature looks good:

Been on Mirtazapine 30mg for 3yrs and want to come off due to weight gain & morning hangover.

Mid March 2019 went to 15mg one night 30mg the next for a week

Was feeling ok so dropped to 15mg per night but anxiety came back so tried to get back to 30mg but body didnt like it so I panicked and found this site. Dr told me to get stable at 22 1/2mg for a month but have stuck at 15mg and plan to get stable on this, its day 3 on 15mg.

 

I bolded some of the information you have there that was still a bit unclear to me.

 

You might consider going to Accounts Settings and then adding some date(s) to  the left of the dosage changes.  

I don't know how long you stuck with 22.5 mg in Mid March, or if that is when you dropped to 15 mg.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

[Maca44]

Never stayed on 22.5mg for long because I found going back up a dose after I panicked when I dropped to 15mg made me feel worse so that is why I went back to 15mg and stayed there. Thanks for the advice I know deep down I should ease up but I'm just sick of this drug and want it out of my system. I read that some do this drop over years not months and I just don't think I could handle that amount of time. Perhaps I am setting myself up for failure but I think the drop to 7.5mg is the only option for me, but I will keep updating and can only hope its not too harsh. 

[ChessieCat]

Please be aware than when updosing it is better to increase by a small amount and see how that affects the withdrawal symptoms.  It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  If after 1 or 2 weeks you find that the withdrawal symptoms are still unbearable you could then increase by another small amount.

 

It is better to increase gradually than to risk taking too much.  Please see Post #1 of this topic, much of which is also relevant to updosing:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

[Maca44]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Please be aware than when updosing it is better to increase by a small amount and see how that affects the withdrawal symptoms.  It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  If after 1 or 2 weeks you find that the withdrawal symptoms are still unbearable you could then increase by another small amount.

 

It is better to increase gradually than to risk taking too much.  Please see Post #1 of this topic, much of which is also relevant to updosing:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

Yes I panicked and went from 15mg back to 30mg and paid the price, that's when I found this site, thank god. No intention of upping my dose now as I feel as stable as I can be at 15mg. I'm expecting to feel bad and have raised anxiety because it was there when I started this med, that's why I took it, but I will just have to deal with it head on I guess. I have totally underestimated the power of these drugs and would be very reluctant to go on them again unless things got so dark that I couldn't see any light as I did before. 

[Maca44]

Just found out that I have been taking 7.5mg of Mirt not 15mg. I have been prescribed 30mg for over 3 years and when I reduced I cut them in half so 15mg. My last prescription from my GP  was for 15mg so I've been thinking I have taken 15mg as I cut the 30's in half but in fact its 7.5mg so I have reduced without knowing it. I had such a fuzzy head when at gps I must have missed her saying I was getting 15mg not 30mg. I know the tablets are a different colour but as brands change I didn't give that any thought. So I guess I'm doing better than I thought given the big reduction , no wonder I was getting headaches from hell almost every day. So I feel getting 7.5mg next time I can cut to 3.5mg by cutting those in half then off for good.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Maca,

Have you found your way around the site okay?

Some important withdrawal basics here:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage

And more, regarding your the mirtazapine:  Tips for tapering off mirtazapine

 

5 hours ago, Maca44 said:

Just found out that I have been taking 7.5mg of Mirt not 15mg. I have been prescribed 30mg for over 3 years and when I reduced I cut them in half so 15mg. My last prescription from my GP  was for 15mg so I've been thinking I have taken 15mg as I cut the 30's in half but in fact its 7.5mg so I have reduced without knowing it. I had such a fuzzy head when at gps I must have missed her saying I was getting 15mg not 30mg. I know the tablets are a different colour but as brands change I didn't give that any thought. So I guess I'm doing better than I thought given the big reduction , no wonder I was getting headaches from hell almost every day. So I feel getting 7.5mg next time I can cut to 3.5mg by cutting those in half then off for good.

 

I don't think that this is a very sound plan Maca44.  Please review some of the previous posts and the new links provided.

And ask any questions regarding any of this right here on your introduction.

 

Thank you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Maca44]

Thanks for reply.

 

I have looked at all the info/links posted and its all good advice. I am kind of weighing up if I can put up with perhaps more discomfort and do a faster taper rather than a very slow reduction rate. I was surprised to find that I was in fact going down more than first thought due mistaking the 15mg for 30's so if going to 3.5mg I am wondering if that rate is the rate I am ok with, I know its not 10% but maybe, because we are all different, its the rate I should stick to ?. I read some horrendous withdraw story's here which make mine look like a walk in the park but the one thing that puts me off very slow withdraw is the time it can take. The drug is nasty and I want it out of my body although it did help me when I was very ill a few years ago. 

[AlanC]

If you taper too fast the risk isn’t so much that the symptoms will become unbearable on the way down, it’s what could happen afterwards.

 

I’ve seen both sides of this.

 

Back in 2001 I came off paroxetine by successively halving the doses every 2 weeks: 20mg / 10mg / 5mg / 2.5mg. A day or so after each dose reduction I’d get horrible symptoms that would last 7 to 10 days, then I’d be OK again. At the end, the symptoms tailed away to nothing and I was OK. No long lasting effects.

 

So when I wanted off the Citalopram I did the same thing, but the fact I had the liquid let me go down to a much lower dose before jumping off. The process was much the same until I got down to 0.5mg where the symptoms went on for about 2 weeks, but after that I continued down to 0.1mg and then stopped. Again, the symptoms tailed away to virtually nothing.

 

The real withdrawal kicked in afterwards. The only initial sign was dizziness that slowly got worse. Then, at just over three months from stopping I got hit by my first real wave: literally a case of going to bed feeling pretty much normal and waking up in hell. From that point on it was downhill all the way and, believe me, it’s far worse than what happened while I was tapering too fast.

 

Brassmonkey wrote about the 3 month delay here:

 

So that’s the risk. You may be able to do a quick taper and get away with it. But if you’re unlucky then you could be looking at something that’s far worse and that would probably go on for much longer than a gradual taper. On the plus side you’re forewarned so you might be able to reinstate if a fast taper did go wrong, although it seems there are no guarantees that reinstatement would work.

[Maca44]

42 minutes ago, AlanC said:

If you taper too fast the risk isn’t so much that the symptoms will become unbearable on the way down, it’s what could happen afterwards.

 

I’ve seen both sides of this.

 

Back in 2001 I came off paroxetine by successively halving the doses every 2 weeks: 20mg / 10mg / 5mg / 2.5mg. A day or so after each dose reduction I’d get horrible symptoms that would last 7 to 10 days, then I’d be OK again. At the end, the symptoms tailed away to nothing and I was OK. No long lasting effects.

 

So when I wanted off the Citalopram I did the same thing, but the fact I had the liquid let me go down to a much lower dose before jumping off. The process was much the same until I got down to 0.5mg where the symptoms went on for about 2 weeks, but after that I continued down to 0.1mg and then stopped. Again, the symptoms tailed away to virtually nothing.

 

The real withdrawal kicked in afterwards. The only initial sign was dizziness that slowly got worse. Then, at just over three months from stopping I got hit by my first real wave: literally a case of going to bed feeling pretty much normal and waking up in hell. From that point on it was downhill all the way and, believe me, it’s far worse than what happened while I was tapering too fast.

 

Brassmonkey wrote about the 3 month delay here:

 

So that’s the risk. You may be able to do a quick taper and get away with it. But if you’re unlucky then you could be looking at something that’s far worse and that would probably go on for much longer than a gradual taper. On the plus side you’re forewarned so you might be able to reinstate if a fast taper did go wrong, although it seems there are no guarantees that reinstatement would work.

Thanks for sharing your experience its very helpful. 3 months is a long time to pass and then get hit with withdraws, surely it can't be a physical withdraw after that amount of time can it ?.   I guess if my mirt took 3 months to start to work then it could be the same in reverse.

[Gridley]

25 minutes ago, Maca44 said:

surely it can't be a physical withdraw after that amount of time can it ?. 

 

Yes, it is quite common with a fast taper.

 

Delayed onset of withdrawal symptoms

 

  

[AlanC]

The way my experiences have matched what Brassmonkey describes is absolutely uncanny. I was a bit late with the 3 month crash, there was a really severe wave at something over 8 months (within the range to be the 10 month wave) that left me so dizzy that I couldn't walk without a stick (I'm 57; I shouldn't need a stick to walk!), and another really bad one at close enough to a year that lasted months and which I've only just started to come out of.

 

It's definitely antidepressant withdrawal. Each time I get a wave it starts with the unmistakeable electric shock / brain zap symptoms that I always got each time I reduced the dose. The other symptoms are very similar to those I experienced during the taper but with additions such as the dizziness, out of control grief or anger and headaches that are more painful than anything I've experienced before. The whole thing feels like a worse version of the taper but with the symptoms going on for months, rather than weeks.

 

I reckon the theories on this site regarding the causes are highly plausible. The Citalopram is long gone, but years of having it block the serotonin receptors in my brain caused changes to cope with its presence, and the process of undoing those changes is what's causing all the symptoms. And because I tapered too quickly that process has degenerated into chaos.

 

Nobody can tell you what to do - or predict the results - when it comes to how you taper the Mirtazapine. Going fast might work - like it did for me when I came off Paroxetine - or it might drop you into a hell that could last for an unknown number of years - as seems to be the case for me now.