BreathofAir: dual taper mistake

[Longroadhome]

1 hour ago, Sassenach said:

LRH won't talk to me, you won't talk to me.

Maybe this mod thing makes you an alien

I am pleased you want to cope on your own.

You know where I am.

 

Hugsssssssssssss

 

Sassenach

Cheeky!  

of course I’m talking to you but I know there’s a lot of people out there requiring your help ! 

Oh..,. Im making you sound like the caped crusader !! 

“Holy moly” that’ll never do!! 

 

Seriously Howz things going is it keeping you busy I’m reading your replies to people and you are very reassuring and calming. Just what’s needed when we “land” and are in distress . 

 

Big hugs Sas   

[BreathofAir]

Hi Sassenach, 

 

Thank you my friend. My mother has been very good with me today. It’s very tough for her.  She is trying her best. We’ve all been ill and not sleeping. She’s not easy, but then it’s worrying her sick being around me.  I feel terrible about it. 

 

I know Alto and Shep are very busy, so I’m going to see how I am tomorrow with a view to looking at my benzo schedule, as Shep suggested before.  I will split my doses throughout the day and see if it helps level things a little.  I am trying very hard with non-drug, self-calming techniques. 

 

Thank you as ever for your care and support.  It makes a huge difference. Sending you hugs and hope you sleep well. Bless you my friend. 

🕷🐸🐸🕷🐸🕷🐸🕷🐸🕷🐸🐸🐸🕷🐸🐸🐸🕷🐸🐸🕷🕷🕷🕷🐸🕷🐸xxxxxxxxxx

[Sassenach]

Rachel & @Longroadhome

 

Both of you are the reason I am doing this but we helped each other and I prefer us to continue to do that.

If we don't stick together and all get through this, what was the point.

We all have a way to go yet, but can we do it together?🥺

 

Hugs to you both

 

 

Sass

[Longroadhome]

9 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Rachel & @Longroadhome

 

Both of you are the reason I am doing this but we helped each other and I prefer us to continue to do that.

If we don't stick together and all get through this, what was the point.

We all have a way to go yet, but can we do it together?🥺

 

Hugs to you both

 

 

Sass

I’m with you all the way we started together and we’ll finish together come what may xx 

[Sassenach]

All for one & one for all⚔️

[Dejavu]

@Sassenach @BreathofAir and @Longroadhome, you can throw me in there with all of you as well. You are some of the best people I've never met...lol!!!

3 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

All for one & one for all⚔️

These were the last lucid words my mother spoke to me. It really touches me heart to see you say it in this context. Thank you!

[BreathofAir]

@Sassenach @Dejavu @Longroadhome

 

Thank you so very much 💛 I can’t say too much this morning, I’m in the trenches. 

But hope you all have a positive, healing day.  Sending you all hugs and blessings. 

 

R xxxxx

🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷

 

 

[RichT]

Hi Rachel,

 

sorry to hear you’re having a rough day. I hope you are all recovering from your illnesses! Stick with it, you will feel better soon, it’s the nature of withdrawal to have good times and bad times. Don’t worry about your meds, stability is the most important thing.

 

warmest wishes

 

Rich

 

 

[Sassenach]

Trenches.

Up and over the top.

Let me know how your day goes.

I will look over your diaries and see if there is enough to take to Alto.

 

Hugs

 

Sassenach

[BreathofAir]

Thank you @Sassenach

 

I am not in a good way this morning at all. Bad night. Cortisol 3am. Cortisol 7am.  

 

I would really appreciate some help with a benzo plan, as the interdose withdrawal is worsening the anxiety levels each day.

 

I understand I need to ultimately replace the Lorazepam with the Diazepam, but I don’t know how best to do it as gently as possible.  I know I need to stay at the same equivalent doses for now, unless otherwise advised. 

 

I need to divide 1mg Lorazepam and 2mg Diazepam up throughout the day, but take into consideration their different half lives.  Ideally I would start by replacing half the Lorazepam out with equivalent Diazepam.

 

My brain is so addled, I would just appreciate some maths help very very much. 

 

R xxxx

 

Copy: @Altostrata @Shep @brassmonkey

[Shep]

1 hour ago, BreathofAir said:

I would really appreciate some help with a benzo plan, as the interdose withdrawal is worsening the anxiety levels each day.

 

Please see my previous post on spacing out the lorazepam: 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/20446-breathofair-dual-taper-mistake/?do=findComment&comment=434187

 

1 hour ago, BreathofAir said:

I understand I need to ultimately replace the Lorazepam with the Diazepam, but I don’t know how best to do it as gently as possible.  I know I need to stay at the same equivalent doses for now, unless otherwise advised. 

 

I don't understand - why do you need to replace the lorazepam with diazepam? If you do this, you will go into lorazepam withdrawal. The diazepam may cover it, but it might not. It's always a risk. 

 

You may want to try spacing out the lorazepam first to see if that helps. 

[BreathofAir]

Hi @Shep

 

Thank you for your reply. 

 

I thought with the Diazepam being longer acting I would achieve a steady level in my system rather than peaks and troughs?  I am already in Lorazepam withdrawal now aren’t I ? 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Rachel xx

 

 

[Longroadhome]

5 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Trenches.

Up and over the top.

Let me know how your day goes.

I will look over your diaries and see if there is enough to take to Alto.

 

Hugs

 

Sassenach

Sas are you receiving my messages one last night one this morning ?? 

[Longroadhome]

8 hours ago, RichT said:

Hi Rachel,

 

sorry to hear you’re having a rough day. I hope you are all recovering from your illnesses! Stick with it, you will feel better soon, it’s the nature of withdrawal to have good times and bad times. Don’t worry about your meds, stability is the most important thing.

 

warmest wishes

 

Rich

 

 

Rich T

i don’t message you often but I do see you  lovely messages of encouragement to people on this site .  You are a great support and I’m not surprised you’ve become a moderator . Well done ! 

[Sassenach]

@Longroadhome

 

and now you're flirting with Rich, you are incorridgeable ( spelt that wrong ), I love it.

[BreathofAir]

Dear Everyone, 

 

Hope you are all ok.  

 

Unfortunately things aren’t going too well. I’ve been struggling with benzo interdose withdrawal and a virus, as well as everyone being ill at home.  Things are piling up a bit.  I’m not in a good spot right now and need to find a way out of it. 

 

Sending you all hugs and best wishes. Bless you and sleep well. 

R 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 7/1/2019 at 1:52 AM, BreathofAir said:

Hi @Altostrata

 

Slight cortisol means not anywhere near as severe as some mornings when it seems to burn all over internally and makes me nauseous and shaky.  Also, it dissipates more quickly and does not bother me so much. 

 

Best wishes, 

Rachel xx

 

 

 

Hi, Rachel. In your notes, please describe the symptoms rather than using the term "cortisol."

 

23 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

Had awful day. So much crying and battling severe anxiety and agitation all day coming out of nowhere with no apparent triggers. 

Hateful hateful hateful anxiety.  So tired and scared.  

 

Really need more strength and to work out what the medication is doing. 

 

Sending hugs and blessings to everyone. 🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁

 

Xxxxcc🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷

 

I think you need to be mindful of your mother's effect on you. You might add that to your daily notes. We need to distinguish your emotional reactions to your mother from possible adverse effects of the drugs.

 

22 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

Hi Sassenach, 

 

Thank you my friend. My mother has been very good with me today. It’s very tough for her.  She is trying her best. We’ve all been ill and not sleeping. She’s not easy, but then it’s worrying her sick being around me.  I feel terrible about it. 

 

I know Alto and Shep are very busy, so I’m going to see how I am tomorrow with a view to looking at my benzo schedule, as Shep suggested before.  I will split my doses throughout the day and see if it helps level things a little.  I am trying very hard with non-drug, self-calming techniques. 

 

Thank you as ever for your care and support.  It makes a huge difference. Sending you hugs and hope you sleep well. Bless you my friend. 

🕷🐸🐸🕷🐸🕷🐸🕷🐸🕷🐸🐸🐸🕷🐸🐸🐸🕷🐸🐸🕷🕷🕷🕷🐸🕷🐸xxxxxxxxxx

 

Spacing the lorazepam out over the day may reduce what appears to be a paradoxical reaction to too much benzo -- but it may also cause paradoxical reactions with the diazepam you're taking throughout the day.

 

@Shep -- what do you think about initiating a direct taper of lorazepam right now, without moving it around? Even a 10% reduction of lorazepam may decrease a possible paradoxical reaction.

 

It is looking to me like 1) anxiety due to interactions with mother are confounding symptom pattern; 2) some "depression" might be a side effect of the benzos; 3) the morning lorazepam isn't doing anything good; 4) twice-daily diazepam provides plenty of benzo coverage.

 

The 7.5mg Lexapro is a non-issue.

[Sassenach]

Hi Rachel

 

You have so much support on here you will get through it.

Forget fortitude for the moment and invest in a little Rachel coddling and daugher cuddling, even if she is a virus machine.

There is a lot going on behind the scenes so keep the faith.

Hope you manage to sleep well.

 

Hugs and strength from the border country.

🤗🤗🤗🙇‍♂️

 

Sassenach

 

 

[Mewr]

Hi Rachel,

i am sorry that so many stressful situations are in your life right now.  You have many of people on this site that support you and know that we all care about you a great deal.  I appreciate all the messages you send me and feel better after I read them. Hope you get a good night sleep and all start to recover from the virus.  Talk to you soon.  XxxMaria

 

[RichT]

3 hours ago, Longroadhome said:

Rich T

i don’t message you often but I do see you  lovely messages of encouragement to people on this site .  You are a great support and I’m not surprised you’ve become a moderator . Well done ! 

 

Thanks LRH!

[Sassenach]

Good morning Rachel.

 

I want my Rachel back starting today.

Are you seeing a Psychiatrist weekly?

Where are you with your counsellor?

Question I have askes 3 times, when does your mother go away?

Lets have the confident you back.

In a rush but speak later.

Gogogo girl

 

Sass

[Carmie]

14 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

Dear Everyone, 

 

Hope you are all ok.  

 

Unfortunately things aren’t going too well. I’ve been struggling with benzo interdose withdrawal and a virus, as well as everyone being ill at home.  Things are piling up a bit.  I’m not in a good spot right now and need to find a way out of it. 

 

Sending you all hugs and best wishes. Bless you and sleep well. 

R 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷🦁🕷

 

 

 

Hi Rachel, 

 

I’m sorry you’re struggling so much, the journey with these meds really is hard. I’m going through lots of waves myself at the moment, and I’ve had a severe chronic illness for about 25 years. That being said, I think it’s really important to still try and find the positives in each day. It can be hard at times and we can’t always be positive, but please know that our brains have a marvellous way of healing themselves. 

 

Every time I taper I go through lots of waves, but I always stabilise. Someone on here didn’t have a window for four years, but in the last two months they’ve had three. It just goes to show that are brains have an amazing capacity to heal. 

 

I find distracting myself in waves is the best way to go, it doesn’t get rid of the waves but it helps you to put the focus on something else. I wasn’t able to get out of bed today, but I kept finding things to do to help me to distract myself. I have a million and one distractions: arts and crafts, DVD and Netflix marathons, watching YouTube videos, playing word games, music etc etc etc. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Carmie
Removed white space

[Shep]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@Shep -- what do you think about initiating a direct taper of lorazepam right now, without moving it around? Even a 10% reduction of lorazepam may decrease a possible paradoxical reaction.

 

@BreathofAir you may want to start out using the Brassmonkey Slide. 

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

 

It's still a 10% monthly reduction, but done in 4 incremental reductions of 2.5% each as follows: 

 

            Week 1 reduce 2.5%

            Week 2 reduce an additional 2.5% (for a total of 5%)

            Week 3 reduce an additional 2.5% (for a total of 7.5%)

            Week 4 reduce an additional 2.5% (for a total of 10%)

            Weeks 5,6 Hold at the last reduction level

 

If you find this is too fast, you can hold before you reach the 10% mark. 

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Rachel.

 

Talk to me please.

I know you have just visited

 

Sassenach

[BreathofAir]

Hi Sassenach, 

 

Just trying to get through the day.  The benzo withdrawals (severe anxiety, agitation and internal burning) are happening during the night and from around 11am onwards now throughout the afternoon.  The SI is back.  Had a terrible night with the virus causing a temperature and awful headache. 

 

Feel trapped and terrified, as I don’t feel stable enough to taper.  I am confused by this suggestion.  I’ve reached tolerance and know I can’t take any more.  The severity of the symptoms has shown that I’m getting very little input from the Escitalopram, if anything at all. 

 

I forced myself to go to my daughter’s sports day at school this afternoon and just sat there burning and wringing my hands trying not to scream.  I just wanted to be there for her. 

 

I don’t know what else to say. Just have to find the strength and courage and coping skills from somewhere.  I may go quiet for a bit to try and cope.  I’m so sorry.   I thought I was getting somewhere.

 

How are you? Sending you hugs.

 

R xxxxxxxx

🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Rachel

 

You are ill, good old fashioned ill.

You would feel awful just with the infection and you are certaily not fit to be making decisions.

Before all this started you were doing well, the meds were working and still are, you have just chucked a spanner in the works.

The old cliche, don't make a change when feel rotten.

It will feel like forever but a couple of days and you will be on the mend.

If you are getting support at home, great, but if not or you need to say something you can't then stay in touch.

You need support for a couple of days so don't desert us.

 

Hugs

 

Sassenach

[RichT]

Hi Rachel,

 

sending you strength! You are getting somewhere, you’ve had some great windows. Also remember that the stress from your bad days with your mother will affect you for a while. And you still have a virus - so it’s not surprising you’re having a bad patch. It will pass, it’s inevitable..

 

Please don’t cut yourself off from your support here!

 

Warmest wishes

 

Rich

[Dejavu]

Stay with us, Rachel. This is just a wave. You've improved before and you will again. 

[BreathofAir]

Thank you @Sassenach and @RichT

 

To be fair my mother has been so good with me.  She was up with me in the night and she’s still ill herself. She is working like a Trojan in the house.  She leaves next Wednesday and I am dreading her going really, but it just means I have to really step up and maybe that is best.  My husband and daughter are away for a long weekend this weekend. 

 

I watched the other parents at school all laughing and planning social activities and felt so out of it. I was also supposed to ring at my friend’s wedding this weekend and have had to cancel.  I know it’s all part of things that happen in life and learning to let things go is very hard.  Withdrawal is the gift that keeps on taking!

 

You are both so lovely and have once again lifted me this evening.  At least I can say that despite feeling utterly wiped out and in despair there is still fire in my belly and I can get up and do things when I really want to. 

 

“And I grew strong. And I learned how to get along”.  

I Will Survive

 

Bless you both so much. I really hope you are well. Sending more hugs. 

Rxxxxxx

🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷

[Sassenach]

This is about being ill and alone.

We cannot make you better but can keep you company.

Let things return to normal, do everything you can to relax, maybe spend some mum/daughter time and really talk to each other.

Regard it as an opportunity.

When the dust settles it's one last push. Oh and some extra housework😈

7 minutes ago, BreathofAir said:

when I really want to.

Yes not only when you have to.

Sleep well, tomorrow is another adventure.

Don't walk away now you have come so far.

 

Hugsssssssssssss

 

Sass

 

[BreathofAir]

Dear @Dejavu

 

Thank you. I was about to reply to your thread after reading you’d hit a bump.  I am guilty of reading triggering things and have a mind that is very susceptible to suggestion.  Because we want to stabilise so very much anything negative is bound to upset the apple cart.  But be under no illusion, you are doing so very well and have come so far.  I go over your thread and it’s like a different person. Keep your goal in sight and let nothing get in your way 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

 

Yes, I am speaking from the swamp at the moment.  Blasted benzos. I was hoping to be more stable before they caused trouble, but no such luck there.  Guess the powers that be are trying to tell me something. Am scared, but have no option but to keep moving forward.  

 

Sending you a big Yorkshire hug and blessings for calm and stability.  Sleep well and heal well. 

R xxxxxxxxxxx

🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋

 

 

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

The benzo withdrawals (severe anxiety, agitation and internal burning) are happening during the night and from around 11am onwards now throughout the afternoon.  The SI is back.  Had a terrible night with the virus causing a temperature and awful headache. 

 

Need to see this in context of daily symptom notes.

[Carmie]

Hi Rachel, 

 

Sorry you feel like you’re in a swamp at the moment. Just wanted to pop over and send you hugs🤗

[BreathofAir]

I am in a really bad way.  Doctor appointment this afternoon.  Can barely get out of bed.  Up all night. Exhausted.  Frightened. Burning. Sweating. Sickness.  Mother crying. Daughter crying for me.  No one sleeping.  

 

How can I get out of this horrible mess?  

 

My daughter said - You’re always tired and poorly. I need you.  I’m glad I’m going away to get away from grandma and this house.

 

I feel like death.  Exhausted but burning with anxiety.  Depression.  This is not a wave. It feels like a tsunami.  AD Withdrawal, reinstatement, benzo tolerance withdrawal, virus, period, acid reflux. 

 

I must keep fighting for my daughter, my family.  Please let me keep finding the strength 💛🤗🦁🦁🦁🦁🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷

[Longroadhome]

3 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

I am in a really bad way.  Doctor appointment this afternoon.  Can barely get out of bed.  Up all night. Exhausted.  Frightened. Burning. Sweating. Sickness.  Mother crying. Daughter crying for me.  No one sleeping.  

 

How can I get out of this horrible mess?  

 

My daughter said - You’re always tired and poorly. I need you.  I’m glad I’m going away to get away from grandma and this house.

 

I feel like death.  Exhausted but burning with anxiety.  Depression.  This is not a wave. It feels like a tsunami.  AD Withdrawal, reinstatement, benzo tolerance withdrawal, virus, period, acid reflux. 

 

I must keep fighting for my daughter, my family.  Please let me keep finding the strength 💛🤗🦁🦁🦁🦁🕷🕷🕷🕷🕷

Hello Rachel 

kerp moving forward it’s the only way some days it’s one foot in front of the other . You are strong please give yourself credit . I’ve read your posts and I am proud of you the way you go about your daily tasks in the middle of coping with wd. 

I know how desperately hard it is. Inbetween sorting  your meds you should not try and shy away from your symptoms . Stand still slow deep breaths and analyse each one . Anxiety will  reach a certain level and die down as you have found many times . It’s the secondary fear that keeps it going longer. We have to learn to ignore and be un afraid . I know this is hard but you have shown some days you can do this and you cope better.

read back on your posts and reflect on the better days . I bet it was when you weren’t focused so much on yr symptoms and kept yourself occupied . 

Thinking of you

LTH x 

 

[BreathofAir]

Thank you @Longroadhome

 

For your lovely kind message. I have been following and thinking of you too.  

 

Bless you. 

 

R xxxx