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BreathofAir

BreathofAir: dual taper mistake

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BreathofAir

Hi Ruth, 

 

Thank you for your message. Yes, I am faking it until I make it. I am just a robot right now.  I watched a video of myself three days before I crashed and I was laughing and being silly.  Who am I now?  I feel like someone removed half my brain or mangled all the connections.  It’s so hard to get your head around a crash and how the bottom just drops out completely.  

 

You don’t sound crazy. My friends are praying for me, but it seems so selfish when there are so many suffering so much worse.  I am just so full of guilt. 

 

The weather has been mixed here, a bit of everything with some wind thrown in. Think it’s going to be pretty rubbish this week. Hopefully they’ve got it wrong as usual. 

 

Sending you blessings, hugs and warmth too.  Sleep well and heal well. 

R xxxxxxx

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Sassenach

Rachel

 

Please please please run this increase by the mods. Brassmonkey is online now and remember his reply to Planiflora.

I think you are making a big mistake but it needs a mod who knows.

 

Sassenach

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sunnysideup69
1 minute ago, Sassenach said:

Rachel

 

Please please please run this increase by the mods. Brassmonkey is online now and remember his reply to Planiflora.

I think you are making a big mistake but it needs a mod who knows.

 

Sassenach

 

I agree, and hello Sassenach :)

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Dejavu

I agree with @Sassenach as well. It might not be too late to go back down to 5. Not only would I hate to see you essentially double the length of your taper, but the increased dose also might be causing your heightened symptoms. This is definitely a job for the mods. @brassmonkey is extremely knowledgable. Brass, could you weigh in here? 

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eymen23
32 minutes ago, BreathofAir said:

I am going to stay at 10mg. I will see how I go over the next few days.  I just can’t get anything right at the moment!  I don’t plan on tapering any time soon anyway.  My low mood and need for the Lorazepam has really been frightening me. 

 

Ultimately it is your choice as to whether you stay on the larger 10mg tablets, but this is not something we would recommend. Any updose should be small so as to carefully monitor for adverse reactions and to not leave oneself stuck on a high dose which is causing side effects, but that has also caused dependence and will need tapering slowly. 

 

As it’s only been 5 days, I think it would be acceptable to move straight back down to 5mg, although I will ask the other and more experienced moderators to weigh in as well.

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Gridley

@BreathofAir

 

Since you've only been on the 10mg for 5 days, I would recommend that you drop back to 5mg.  I'm concerned that 10mg is going to be too much for your system to handle on top of all the other changes.

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BreathofAir

Thank you Gridley, 

 

I feel stuck, because I am still suicidal, my mood is very low and I cannot cope with the level of anxiety I have without taking Lorazepam.  My doctor was thinking that I would need to increase at some point, but not beyond 10mg.  

 

I am frightened to go back down to 5mg in case I need more Lorazepam. Might it not cause more chaos to go down again? 

 

Thank you for your help. 

Xxxxxx

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Gridley
8 minutes ago, BreathofAir said:

Might it not cause more chaos to go down again? 

 

It is a hard call.  Yes, it could cause chaos either way.  I'm sorry you're in this predicament.  It is your decision.  Do what you are most comfortable doing.

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BreathofAir

Thank you Gridley, 

 

I appreciate your care and concern. 

 

Just to clarify, I was thinking I would need to completely re-start the medication anyway, rather than a low reinstatement and taper off.  I’ve made such a mess trying to taper the AD and the benzo, so I guess I will try to start again, but hopefully not at the higher doses I was on before. 

 

Thank you so much for your help. Bless you and hope you are well. 

 

Rachel xxxxx

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BreathofAir

Please give me some strength.  I promise I will pay it back. 

 

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

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brassmonkey

You can't just start and stop these drugs on a whim.  Going back up to your full dose of 20mg Escitalopram  would probably be a disaster. Just look what going to 10mg has done. Lowering your dose to 5mg is probably a good idea and won't do too much damage as it's only been a few days. Right now you need a very long time with no changes to anything so your body can sort things out and stabilize.  It will probably be pretty uncomfortable for quite some time but stability will happen and then you can think about tapering one of the drugs at a time.  Making changes now or adding other drugs will just be adding fuel to the fire and cause a lot of trouble. 

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Sassenach

Hi Rachel try and get some sleep tonight but please think very carefully before you take 10mg tomorrow the decision has to be yours

Strength to you goodnight

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Dejavu
51 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Lowering your dose to 5mg is probably a good idea and won't do too much damage as it's only been a few days. Right now you need a very long time with no changes to anything so your body can sort things out and stabilize.  

Rachel, I believe to my very core that you should follow Brassmonkey's advice. There are many people here, myself included, who are living proof that he is right.

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intothewoods
48 minutes ago, Dejavu said:

Rachel, I believe to my very core that you should follow Brassmonkey's advice. There are many people here, myself included, who are living proof that he is right.

 

Rachel, I've not posted on your thread but began following your story a couple of weeks ago. I wholely concur with @Dejavu, the mods and all the others who want the best for you. I too am living proof that brassmonkey's advice is right.

 

Wish I could help more. Been pulling for you for weeks. 💙

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ChessieCat

There is another option of going to 7.5mg.

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sunnysideup69

@BreathofAirmorning Rachel,

I know it seems really overwhelming, but honestly, keeping it stable at 5 does sound the best way forward. 

If you look at my signature, you can see what I did last summer....my regret is that I didn't stay put at 5, I didn't realise the effect it would have on me to move around.

Here I am 9 months later, still stabilising...

Whatever dose you are on, it takes time to heal. More doesn't mean 'better.'

Hope you have had some good sleep. Thinking of you x

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Sassenach

Good morning Rachel

 

Hope you slept ok.

You have only been on the increased dose for 5 days so the effect are only just getting to your brain.

If you stick at 5 you may have some extra waves but as you can see on here many have done so and not regretted it.

If you do not want to stay on 5 then Chessie's suggestion of 7.5mg  is a less bad choice than 10 mgs.

Please do not take offence Chessie short of time to pick my words

Whatever you decide be sure to inform your GP because if he has not pushed you to updose maybe he is one of the few who do understand but of course cannot tell you so.

You asked for strength last night, you have it behind you in spades on here.

Make your decision, inform your care team, and stick with it.

You were doing so well, you still can.

Who discovered the mistake in the med dose?

Time to take control again

Wishing you wisdom

 

Sassenach

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BreathofAir

Thank you everyone for all your help.  I didn’t sleep.

 

I am too upset at the moment and frightened by what Brass has said that things will take a long time.  It’s made me feel so hopeless. 

 

I hope everyone is ok. Bless you all. 

 

R xxxxxxxx

 

 

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Sassenach

Hi Rachel

 

Don't be frightened it was always going to take a long time.

You are young and can lead a normal life when you stabilise.

This can be just a blip when you were doing so well as long as you make a decision and stick to it.

What dose have you taken today?

 

Sassenach

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Songbird
12 minutes ago, BreathofAir said:

Thank you everyone for all your help.  I didn’t sleep.

 

I am too upset at the moment and frightened by what Brass has said that things will take a long time.  It’s made me feel so hopeless. 

 

 

I think what Brass meant was that the nervous system likes stability - making changes is like shifting the goal posts for your nervous system. Keep in mind that the "quite some time" refers to stabilising, it doesn't mean a long time without any improvement.  People generally do improve gradually over time as their nervous systems work towards stability.  I quite liked ChessieCat's idea of the 7.5mg middle ground.

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Sassenach

Rachel

 

The lst three days have been pretty awful for me but I have seen through the windows that I will be well again.

I am not giving up and I will get there.

I still think you can do it, but you have to believe.

I hope it works out for you.

 

Sassenach

 

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BreathofAir

Hi Songbird and Sassenach, 

 

I have taken 7.5mg today after speaking with my doctor.  

 

I am just very frightened by my low mood.  I am doing what I can to exercise and function and eat.  I have never had such a feeling of black despair like this.  I only ever had anxiety and some moderate down days, nothing like this.  I just don’t know how to cope with it.  

 

Sassenach, I am so sorry the last few days have been bad.  Would you tell me your symptoms? If you’d rather not, I understand.  Sending you big hugs and a big shove as well to get rid of your wave.  

 

I have no clue what is happening to me. I have side effects from the Escitalopram, but I still feel the Lorazepam is doing the work, and that together with the insomnia is crushing my mood.  

 

You are much braver and more positive than me.  I was really upset after I read the post from Brass, it really scared me because I’m still having SI and I don’t feel a low dose of Escitalopram is going to do anything.  It was me who spotted the tablets. My husband is very upset about it. 

 

Have you been sleeping and eating ok?  I know you will miss your ff very much.  I really understand that. You seem very focused and determined so I know this will keep you motoring along. 

 

Sending you my blessings and hugs and thank you so much for your care and concern. 

I hope you sleep well and wake up to a fabulous window. 

 

R xxxxxxx

 

 

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RichT

Hi Rachel,

 

Don’t be frightened by your moods. You will feel better. Keep struggling! It will make a difference.

 

I can testify that a low dose of medication can make a difference. I reinstated 0.5mg / day of Abilify and I did feel better - the minimum prescribed dose is 2mg, and I had been on 5mg. 

 

Warmest wishes,

 

Rich

 

 

 

 

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Sassenach

Rachel my symptoms are feeling cold, no energy, head fog and all the usual ones.The difference is they are worse ie. a wave.

When they ease I will have a window, some will ease others disappear alltogether.

It is all part of the process. It cannot be rushed and once you see a window you know what is possible.

I am glad you contacted your GP and even more happy that he did not push you to 10mgs. Maybe he does understand.

 

I hope you have control of your meds now.

What would your husband have done if one of his nurses administered a double dose to one of his patients?

Thanks to ChessieCat for a level head.

If you are not sleeping you have the Zopiclone. You cannot fight when you are totally exhausted, use the tools you have and sit tight.

It is so unfair you have been knocked back like this but you can still do it.

 

All the best

 

Sassenach

 

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BreathofAir

Thank you @Sassenach and @RichT

 

Thank you once again for your kind messages.  I am very very sorry to be so draining.  

 

I know you both get very tired. If you nap try to make sure your blood sugars are up before you do nap. Nuts or a long release carb.  Also it lowers your blood pressure so that won’t help the horrid feelings when you wake.  Make sure you eat lots of warm food and warm liquid to try help your internal temperature. 

 

Keep the chi moving by stretching and bending indoors.  Acupuncture infrared heat lamps are good for deep heat, better than hot water bottles, if you get cramps or aches.  You can get them online, but I appreciate they are expensive. 

 

I hope you both feel a lot better and am sending my prayers and blessings to you. 

Sleep tight.  Heal well. 

 

R xxxxxxxxx

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Sassenach

Hi Rachel I am not cross with you but I am concerned for your safety that does not mean but I believe your husband means you any harm I want to believe it was a genuine error but he is too emotionally invested to be in charge of your car e

However it is you who are left wondering what is happening.

Sleep well

Sassenach

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Songbird
5 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

I don’t feel a low dose of Escitalopram is going to do anything. 

 

Escitalopram is a very powerful drug - 5mg isn't really a low dose.  If you've decided on 7.5mg, that's a decent size dose.  The key is to stay on the same dose and give your system plenty of time to adjust and work towards stability.

 

5 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

I have no clue what is happening to me. I have side effects from the Escitalopram, but I still feel the Lorazepam is doing the work, and that together with the insomnia is crushing my mood.  

 

What do you mean by side effects from the escitalopram?  Are you talking about withdrawal symptoms, or are you having side effects from reinstatement?

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BreathofAir

Hi @Songbird

 

I hope you are well.  Thank you for your reply. 

 

It’s more the nausea feelings and a sense of head pressure/ache that I remember from before.  I don’t know whether the severe anxiety is from the withdrawal or whether it’s just back with a vengeance from before.  

 

I fell asleep, but had about an hour’s sleep. The cortisol burning and terror this morning made me sick and seemed to go on for hours from after midnight.  I struggle to cope with it very much. 

 

Thank you for your help and support. 

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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BreathofAir

I hope everyone has had a good day and things are looking up. 

 

I tried going out today to meet some friends.  I just cannot talk to or be around people. The anhedonia, flatness and disconnection are awful.  I cannot look at people and I just burn with panic when normal conversation is going on around me.  It just doesn’t mean anything to me.   I never had this before, just more pure anxiety.  The crying is still constant.  I can only essentially function with my mother or husband nearby if I am out of the house. 

 

I hope everyone else is doing much better and feeling hopeful and positive.  Bless you all. Keep healing. 

 

R xxxxxxx

 

 

 

 

 

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Sassenach

Hi Rachel

 

Everything you are feeling is totally normal for this completely abnormal condition of WD

I have not spoken to my neighbours for six months because they are both doctors, husband A & E, his wife leading psych doc in Scotland, apparently.

I do not want to socialise and know that with my current attitude to doctors I would not be able to hold back.

You were talking to your neighbour the other day, but this condition changes by the day. So it is fine and normal to be unsociable.

The easiest way is not to care what people think.

The past is just that, deal with it bit by bit until you can put it where it belongs. It does not mean you have to forget but it will not be ever present.

How are you doing with the new counsellor you liked? I hope you feel at ease and able to confide in her to help you come to terms with your life.

I apologise for being short with you, it was wrong.

So can we start again?

That means you stop referring to yourself as weak and continue helping and posting on here.

Remember we can all find posts on here to relate to and that includes your experiences for others.

You are still strong so dig in, take what comes, and get through it.

 

While I remember do not forget to update your history with updose to 7.5mgs so the mods can see it.

 

Hope you get some sleep.

 

Sassenach

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intothewoods
2 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

I tried going out today to meet some friends.  I just cannot talk to or be around people. The anhedonia, flatness and disconnection are awful.  I cannot look at people and I just burn with panic when normal conversation is going on around me.  It just doesn’t mean anything to me.   I never had this before, just more pure anxiety.  The crying is still constant.  I can only essentially function with my mother or husband nearby if I am out of the house. 

 

Like @Sassenach said: this is normal for WD but it is not permanent. I was a social creature my entire life, traveled happily by myself to almost 40 countries, and now am in this space you describe so well. It seems impossible that we can't just snap out of it but we can't so we can't worry. 

 

1 hour ago, Sassenach said:

The easiest way is not to care what people think

 

@Sassenach, could you bottle this and give me a price? I need more of this vital reality in my WD brain. 😅

 

My closest neighbors are a family of seven and the wife, she is an esteemed psychologist with the police department. Daily she teams with a psychiatrist to "treat" victims of rape and domestic abuse with every manner of psychotic drug. Her own daughter of age 14 is on Lamictal for teenage mood swings. I honestly thought when I presented solid evidence to her last year she might think twice. Yet I have learned that she has diagnosed me as having "serious mental issues." My neighbors avoid me like the plague. Sigh. 

 

Hang in there, @BreathofAir. Remember, the higher dose of meds we take, the longer these symptoms will drag out as we withdraw. Once we destabilize, we can never "go back" -- no matter what the professionals say.

 

 

Edited by intothewoods
uneven prose

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BreathofAir

You are very sweet Sassenach, 

 

It is I who should apologise to you for causing so much drama. I put the tablets in the wrong box, but my husband put them in the dispenser.  He is very upset with himself, but i have shredded his nerves and it was an honest mistake.  

 

Thank you once again for your sage advice.  It is just for my daughter that I grieve and struggle so much. We were very close and now grandma and other mothers are doing my job whilst I just watch in agony.  I know I am soft, I just have no control over the tears right now.  I also know I have to dig down and acclimatise to the fear and pain. 

 

I hope you are feeling better today or having signs you are on the up.  I at least managed to play with a fun little sheep dog called Buster today, who was quite happy to play fetch with me for half an hour.  Thank goodness for animals. 

 

I see the counsellor again on Friday.  I can talk to her and she seems knowledgeable and encouraging.  I am just pleased there is a service available. 

 

Have you managed to feel any warmer today? I daren’t nap at all. It’s hard to find things to tire myself out when nothing holds my attention and everything feels uncomfortable.  I know Rich said to keep struggling. 

 

Do you mind me asking if your history is more related to depression or anxiety? I know you don’t like dwelling on yourself much, and I respect that.  My sister has been left with tinnitus after her withdrawal from Sert years ago. She said it took her  long time to get used to it. 

 

I hope you are ok. Thank you for being my friend, I feel very lucky. 

 

Hope you sleep longer tonight. Bless you very much and keep healing. 

 

R xxxxxx

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Dejavu

Rachel, when I first reinstated I was in 24x7 hell mode. Like you, I could not be around people without feeling exposed and vulnerable. I could not be left alone. I could not drive. I could not work. I could not watch stimulating TV. I could not look at social media because I got so jealous of other people living their normal happy lives. Random, crazy things caused me panic for absolutely no reason. I am a musician, but I couldn't play or even go to rehearsal. I had to quit my beloved band. My mom had just died. All I wanted was to be with her. I spent every day lying on my bed, watching silly romcoms and children's shows because they weren't too stimulating. Except for therapy appointments, I never left the house. Anxiety was off the charts and the depression was shockingly soul-crushing. I couldn't sleep more than 2-3 hours at a time. Cortisol spikes and morning anxiety were daily. I panicked anytime something was expected of me, even something small like answering a text. I was a mess.

 

That was last December. By February, I was slowly improving. The first to go were the cortisol awakenings. I started sleeping more solidly. Then the morning anxiety calmed down. I started to be able to nap during the day without waking up in a panic (this was huge!). I found I could be alone for short periods of time (only 1-2 hours at first, but it gradually became a non-issue). Then I started driving with my husband in the car, and soon I got back to driving alone during the day for short trips. I'm back to work part time. I am looking at social media again, commenting but not yet posting. Last month I finally got back to band rehearsal. I have to drive 45 minutes to get there - almost all highway driving at night, and it no longer phases me. I've gone from someone who used to jump out of my skin at the sound of a car horn to someone who stands in front of a 12 piece drum kit and 3 guitars and plays loud music for 4 hours. Last week I actually negotiated a new car purchase. All proof positive that my CNS is slowly finding its way back to normalcy.

 

I still have plenty of issues, and in fact, I'm in a bit of a wave right now, but its nowhere near as bad as the early days. You're in the thick of it now. You won't stay there, as long as you sit still on one dose and give your nervous system the stability it's craving. You "restarted the clock" with this latest dose change, but don't worry, you will still heal. I reset my own clock four times with dose changes, which no doubt delayed my progress.

 

I'd be willing to bet that if you sit totally still on a dose - be it 5 or 7.5 - for 2 months, you will be able to look back and see the same kind of improvement and will be well on your way to stabilization.

 

I can tell by the way you express yourself that you are a very strong and intelligent woman. I know you don't feel it right now, but you will get through this - we all will. Many others have, and there's no reason to believe we are any different.

 

Keep your chin up, listen to your body, and above all - keep your dose stable. Strong, intelligent people like you tend to want to be proactive and "do something" to fix problems. I had to learn the hard way that being patient, holding your dose and waiting for stability actually is "doing sonething." Patience, holding and waiting are not things we would normally associate with proactivity. But in this case, "normal" just doesn't apply. As Chessie Cat says, keep it simple, slow and steady. You're going to be okay.

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BreathofAir

Bless you again so much @Dejavu

 

I am just getting ready for bed and my mind was already on the morning that awaits.  My husband is out and my daughter had stomach ache.  It sent my anxiety through the roof.  You have helped me calm down and I can’t express how much I appreciate your message.  Right now there is no respite and I know you will understand this. I know you are in a wave right now, but I am sure it will be gone in no time since you’re getting stronger and stronger. 

 

Bless you for everything you have said before I try to go to sleep! 

 

Sleep well and heal well.  Sending you hugs. 

R xxxxxxxxxx

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intothewoods
3 hours ago, intothewoods said:

Remember, the higher dose of meds we take, the longer these symptoms will drag out as we withdraw. Once we destabilize, we can never "go back" -- no matter what the professionals say.

 

Hi again Rachel,

 

Just want to clarify what I said earlier. I meant that once we destabilize, we can never go back to the exact place we were before we lowered or stopped the drug. I know you know this but in our fragile states, it's best to clarify because there is no question you can and will stabilize in the way that @Dejavu did. Her recovery is amazing and I hope to hear her play music one day. 

 

You do sound better and that makes my heart happy. As I said a couple of days ago, I've been pulling for you and concerned. We are a big family on SA. @Sassenachand @Dejavu are true friends to you. 

 

Take Care,

 

Catherine 💙

 

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RichT
6 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

I hope everyone has had a good day and things are looking up. 

 

I tried going out today to meet some friends.  I just cannot talk to or be around people. The anhedonia, flatness and disconnection are awful.  I cannot look at people and I just burn with panic when normal conversation is going on around me.  It just doesn’t mean anything to me.   I never had this before, just more pure anxiety.  The crying is still constant.  I can only essentially function with my mother or husband nearby if I am out of the house. 

 

I hope everyone else is doing much better and feeling hopeful and positive.  Bless you all. Keep healing. 

 

R xxxxxxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Rachel,

 

I hope you had a good night.

 

Sorry you had a difficult time being out with friends. Don’t give yourself a hard time for being as you are, it’s quite normal to feel like that during wd. 

 

I hope everything goes well today.

 

R

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