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EternalEmbrace

EternalEmbrace: no psychiatrist cooperation - I need to wean off my medications by myself

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EternalEmbrace

Hi.

I will give information about my past and present to contextualize my situation and my plea for help.

I have been using heavy doses of antipsychotics since a rage outbreak in 2014 (too many, including Clozapine, but the latest were 160mg Ziprasidone and 20mg Aripiprazole). Also immense doses of anticonvulsants - in this case, I've been taking Topiramate and Lamotrigine since back then. They have gone as high as 600mg both. The diagnosis was of bipolar disorder, but I had other diagnoses throughout my life: I don't think it matters so much now.

My psychiatrist (the same from 2014 to until 1 month ago) tapered me down (since May 2018) to 150mg Topiramate and 300mg Lamotrigine. Then he refused to go on. I went to another (2 weeks ago) who agreed to taper Topiramate down to 100mg, but then refused to go on again.  Since the last 2 doctors didn't cooperate anymore, I am doing the work alone now. I need your help for this.

When I took off 100mg of Lamotrigine (down to 200mg), which was around 7 days ago, I didn't imagine my mother was putting 300mg some days (she arranges my medication for me). That is because we disagree on this matter (me leaving psychiatry and traditional medicine). So I took irregular doses ranging from 200mg, 250mg to 300mg these last 7 days. I believe this has left me confused and disturbed.

So now I decided to take control of all medication boxes, and went back to 300mg Lamotrigine to become more stable. I am also on 100mg topiramate for 1 week (was on 125 the week prior, and on 150mg for more than 6 months.). The 300mg Lamotrigine is also crystallized in this dose for more than 6 months. My original psychiatrist has been weaning me off antipsychotics these last times.
 

Now, I again ask for your help for this. 300mg Lamotrigine, 100mg Topiramate, no doctor to help, psychiatrists are expensive where I live and I don't want to try and spend more time and money looking for one who will cooperate.

I would like to wean off quickly but if it's meant to be slower to preserve my sanity, then it's OK.

 

Thanks

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Shep

Hi, EternalEmbrace.

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

Are you still taking an antipsychotic or are you only taking the Topiramate and Lamotrigine?

 

Here is some information to get you started:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

On 4/28/2019 at 5:35 PM, EternalEmbrace said:

When I took off 100mg of Lamotrigine (down to 200mg), which was around 7 days ago, I didn't imagine my mother was putting 300mg some days (she arranges my medication for me).

 

Are you over 18 and able to have complete control your own taper? 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

  • Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
  •  Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

As you provide more information about your symptoms, we can help you set up a slow and careful taper. 

 

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EternalEmbrace

Hi, Shep. Thank you for approving my thread and for welcoming me.

I'm not taking anything today besides Topiramate and Lamotrigine (only Metropolol for arrhythmia and Dexanloprasole for acid reflux).

 

Yes, I am over 18 and able to control my tapering.


As for other drugs history, it was too long to post in the signature so I will post here:

Other psychiatric drugs

Lorazepam 2 - 10 mg (occasionally, until April 30 2019 [when I feel heavily anxious, but don't plan on taking it anymore])
Other benzodiazepines - occasionally until late April 2019)
Morphine - 30-240mg (occasionally since childhood, regularly from Mar 2019 to Apr 4 2019)

Methadone - 10-30 mg (May 2017 - May 2018)

- [note: methadone was a failed treatment by the psychiatrist himself for a long depressive crisis after failed ECT]
Other opiates ([Tramadol, Codeine, Oxycodone] - various dosages (2010 - Mar 2019)

- [note: I have allergies to NSAIDs since childhood, getting gradually addicted to opiates since 2010 and free from May 2018 to around November 2018, and now free since April 4 2019)

Other
Psilocybe Cubensis - 2g (3x - April 4 2018, April 11 2019, late April 2019)
Argireya Nervosa - 6 seeds, (1x - late April 2019)
Marijuana - unknown dosages (occasionally 2012, 1x 2017, 5x in late April 2019)

Alcohol - occasionally (until late April 2019)

My symptoms have been anger, rage and depression these years (since 2012 to be more exact). - The very high dosages of psychiatric drugs couldn't prevent these symptoms.

Since I got free from Methadone in May 2018 by myself, I decided to ask the psychiatrist to wean off my medications. Since then I've been practicing meditation.

As you can see from the dates, in the same day April 4 2019 I abandoned Morphine and used Psilocybe Cubensis. I will rather not go into detail further, but it was when I decided to abandon the rest of medications also.

 

Late April 2019 was a peace/disturbance/peace period due to the use of many psychoactive substances together (psychedelics, alcohol and marijuana - I used them with the intent to heal my mind except alcohol and marijuana which were self indulgences). Alcohol and Marijuana disturbed me (Marijuana erased parts of my memory from this period, which is why I can't remember the exact dates). Psychedelics didn't disturb me.


I want a free time from every psychoactive substances in the next months (at least) to help with the tapering and not to disturb the content of the unconscious flowing with clarity, and the meditation practice.

I feel very peaceful and anger-free now.

Thanks for the help.

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Shep
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the additional information, EE. 

 

I've added a link to the "check thread" in your signature that links to your post above with all of your drugs explained, but at some point, please add these other drugs into your signature. Please note that any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years, so that will simplify it. 

 

43 minutes ago, EternalEmbrace said:

Lorazepam 2 - 10 mg (occasionally, until April 30 2019 [when I feel heavily anxious, but don't plan on taking it anymore])
Other benzodiazepines - occasionally until late April 2019)
Morphine - 30-240mg (occasionally since childhood, regularly from Mar 2019 to Apr 4 2019)

 

 

Please define what "occasionally" means. How many times and at what doses were you taking each week?

 

Are you having any withdrawal symptoms from lorazepam and morphine? Since you've only been off them a short time, it's safe to reinstate. Please give us more information about your use and we can help you figure out any level of dependency that had formed. It is possible to become dependent on these drugs even with occasional use. 

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal. Over the coming days, we can walk through this with you and help you set up a safe and comfortable taper. 

 

Please also include:

 

  • supplements
  • any other drug you are taking besides psych drugs
  • the number of hours you are sleeping

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 
6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

Edited by Shep
fixed typo

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EternalEmbrace

OK, thanks for the additional information, Shep.

By occasionally I mean random (about benzodiazepines). I don't take them for anxiety everyday or every other day, so I feel no withdrawals when I spend long periods without them. I am feeling no withdrawals now.

 

About morphine I took it intravenously in the hospital some times (5 or 6) over the years (from age 9 until today). I always had health problems and always went to the hospital because of them. Infections, very strong headaches, a herniated disk which has caused me very strong pain twice and other incidents.

Once I spent 10 days vomiting in the hospital until they found out it was because I quit methadone cold turkey etc (I myself didn't realize it until the nurse asked me if I used any drugs). Then the psychiatrist gave me instructions to wean off  at home during 4 or 5 weeks and I was fine.

 

Back to morphine, I used it for 1 month so I had little problem quitting it cold turkey now. Dosages increased day by day from 30mg until 240mg (this time I had a prescription from the psychiatrist again, but for unexplained muscular pain). Withdrawals lasted until April 11-12 and didn't include vomiting.

I am already making a journal of today's events and will post it tonight or tomorrow.

Apart from what I've already listed, I'm only taking a multivitamin supplement because my body felt somewhat ill (coughing a lot) and tired after those days using so many substances and eating little. I am also a pipe tobacco smoker and ex-cigarette smoker (from 2013 to 2018). I went back to cigarettes last month but am quitting them now and switching to a pipe again (cigarettes make me cough and have caused me 2 bronchopneumonia infections, pipe tobacco haven't so far). I had some nicotine-free periods which I can't remember exactly right now, and had no bad symptoms / withdrawals.

I forgot to mention that I became a vegetarian after the late April 2019 psychedelic use. I am eating very little now because I was used to eat basically meat. But I feel almost no hunger throughout the day.

I guess that's it. Thanks!

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Shep
22 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

Apart from what I've already listed, I'm only taking a multivitamin supplement because my body felt somewhat ill (coughing a lot) and tired after those days using so many substances and eating little.

 

Thanks for the additional information, EE. As you provide your drug and symptoms journal, we'll be able to give you more advice. 

 

I just want to touch base regarding supplements. If you've been used to a multivitamin, you may do fine staying on it, but I did want to give you some information to read over, as some members report upticks in symptoms from multivitamins, particularly the B vitamins.

 

Multivitamin tips

 

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

22 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

I forgot to mention that I became a vegetarian after the late April 2019 psychedelic use. I am eating very little now because I was used to eat basically meat. But I feel almost no hunger throughout the day.

 

So you're very new to the vegetarian diet? 

 

I would be very careful about making extreme changes in your diet so close to your taper. Getting B12 can be more difficult for vegetarians, which is an extremely important vitamin for cognitive functioning, as is omega 3 (fish oil). Vegetarians can also have lower iron levels, so please make sure you're eating plenty of dark greens and other vegetarian foods that are high in iron. 

 

 

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EternalEmbrace

Hi, Shep

Thank you for the information an tips.

I lost my Thursday journal because the computer restarted by itself in the afternoon/evening, losing the file which I hadn't saved.

So I will post yesterday's journal and so on.

21:00 Slept
23:00 Was woken up by mistake, soon fell asleep again

May 03 2019
01:40 Woke up, thought, slept again
3:30 Woke up
8:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine and 60mg Dexanloprazole
9:00 Smoked cigarettes
12:00 Took a multivitamin
(smoked 4-6 cigarettes and 1 pipe bowl through the morning)
15:30 Lunch
16:30 Tachycardia in the shopping mall (lasted 1:30h)
23:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate

May 04 2019
0:00 Slept
05:00 Woke up

Thank you

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Altostrata
On 5/2/2019 at 5:07 AM, EternalEmbrace said:

Lorazepam 2 - 10 mg (occasionally, until April 30 2019 [when I feel heavily anxious, but don't plan on taking it anymore])
Other benzodiazepines - occasionally until late April 2019)
Morphine - 30-240mg (occasionally since childhood, regularly from Mar 2019 to Apr 4 2019)

Methadone - 10-30 mg (May 2017 - May 2018)

- [note: methadone was a failed treatment by the psychiatrist himself for a long depressive crisis after failed ECT]
Other opiates ([Tramadol, Codeine, Oxycodone] - various dosages (2010 - Mar 2019)

 

It appears you went off a batch of drugs March 2109 -- April 2019. Please stop changing your drugs now.

 

When did you start getting tachycardia? Do you get it at the same time each day?

 

How long have you been taking dexanloprazole and why? Please put ALL your current drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 

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EternalEmbrace

Hi, Altostrata

I started having random tachycardia a few years ago, can't remember exactly when. I guess it can be related to smoking too much, but it's just a guess. When I went back to cigarettes 15-20 days ago, it seemed to come back (couldn't remember feeling it for some time before, except for 1 isolated episode). It's not the same time each day, but it's normally whenever I try to sleep and can't.

I take dexanloprazole for acid reflux for some months (6 months or so), was taking esomeprazole before for a few years, can't remember how many (forgot to list that one).

May 04 2019
05:00 Woke up
08:00 Ate something
10:10 Tried to rest for 20 minutes but got slightly tachycardic
12:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, a multivitamin
(smoked 5-7 cigarettes through the morning)
12:30 Lunch
18:30 Ate something
21:00 Ate something
23:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine, 100mg Topiramate and slept
(pain in the toe due to a recurring ingrown toenail problem throughout the day)
(smoked 4-5 cigarettes through the afternoon/evening and decided to try and quit since it seems to make the pain worse - I don't know why)
05:45 Woke up


Drug Interactions

Interactions between your drugs

No results found in our database - however, this does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. Always consult with your doctor or pharmacist.

Drug and food interactions

Moderate

lamoTRIgine food

Applies to: lamotrigine

Alcohol can increase the nervous system side effects of lamoTRIgine such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with lamoTRIgine. Do not use more than the recommended dose of lamoTRIgine, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions or concerns.

That's it. Thanks!
 

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EternalEmbrace

I forgot to add that I have an arrhythmia diagnoses of some 2-3 years ago. Since then I started taking Metoprolol 25mg but some time ago I stopped it, can't remember why.

I started taking it again today.

I added it to the interactions list and no interactions were found, only this one:

metoprolol food

Applies to: metoprolol

Food can enhance the levels of metoprolol in your body. You should take metoprolol at the same time each day, preferably with or immediately following meals. This will make it easier for your body to absorb the medication. Avoid drinking alcohol, which could increase drowsiness and dizziness while you are taking metoprolol. Metoprolol is only part of a complete program of treatment that also includes diet, exercise, and weight control. Follow your diet, medication, and exercise routines very closely.

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EternalEmbrace

Yesterday's

May 05 2019
05:45 Woke up
6:00 Noticed that the pain in the toe had spread to the leg
10:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol and a multivitamin
11:00 Went to the doctor who told me to come back for surgery in the toe 6 days from now
(2 cigarettes in the morning)
14:00 Lunch
16:30 Took 7.5g Kratom (in pills) for the persistent pain as an alternative to opiates
17:30 Noticed that pain disappeared
18:30 Snack
23:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
 

02:40 Went to sleep (took around 1:30h)
8:10 Woke up (stayed in bed for 30 min with overactive mind trying to solve a problem)

(note: Kratom is one more drug I've taken in the past and forgotten to add)
Kratom 4 - 12g depending on the strength (2015-2016 4 or 5 times, March 2019 - today: first to ease opiate withdrawal, now for occasional pain only)

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Shep
On 5/5/2019 at 7:57 AM, EternalEmbrace said:

I forgot to add that I have an arrhythmia diagnoses of some 2-3 years ago. Since then I started taking Metoprolol 25mg but some time ago I stopped it, can't remember why.

I started taking it again today.

 

Please add Metoprolol to your signature. A direct link is here:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

18 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

(note: Kratom is one more drug I've taken in the past and forgotten to add)
Kratom 4 - 12g depending on the strength (2015-2016 4 or 5 times, March 2019 - today: first to ease opiate withdrawal, now for occasional pain only)

 

Please also add Kratom to your signature, along with your opiate history (name of drug and dates of use). I know you mentioned the opiates earlier in your thread, but it needs to be in your signature, too. 

 

Taking Kratom (or any drug) periodically can be confusing to your nervous system and actually make you worse. Also, we've had some members report problems with Kratum (there are some posts about Kratum being illegal in some areas, but since it's legal where you live, please disregard those comments).

 

Beware of kratom

 

How many times a week are you using Kratom? 

 

18 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

11:00 Went to the doctor who told me to come back for surgery in the toe 6 days from now

 

Please hold all of your drugs until your surgery is over. Also, be careful of any other drugs that are recommended for your procedure. Do you know if you'll need antibiotics? If so, please read this thread, as there are some antibiotics that can cause problems for members going through withdrawal.

 

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin (Z-Pack), and other antibiotics

 

The fluoroquinolone antibiotics can be dangerous, especially for people currently taking or with past histories of benzodiazepine use. There are much safer antibiotics.

 

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EternalEmbrace
1 hour ago, Shep said:

I know you mentioned the opiates earlier in your thread, but it needs to be in your signature, too.  

I tried, but it spans too many lines (more than 12). I had some work fitting those, the immense opiate history didn't fit at all.The others (metoprolol, dexanloprazole, kratom) I managed to put there.
 

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Taking Kratom (or any drug) periodically can be confusing to your nervous system and actually make you worse. Also, we've had some members report problems with Kratum (there are some posts about Kratum being illegal in some areas, but since it's legal where you live, please disregard those comments).

 

Beware of kratom

 

How many times a week are you using Kratom?  



Yes, it's legal here. I only take it when I have moderate or stronger pain (which is happening this week every day, but is not common so I almost don't take it). Due to my allergies, I have to choose between real opiates or kratom. Since I never got addicted to kratom it's less of a problem to me.
 

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Please hold all of your drugs until your surgery is over. Also, be careful of any other drugs that are recommended for your procedure. Do you know if you'll need antibiotics? If so, please read this thread, as there are some antibiotics that can cause problems for members going through withdrawal. 


OK! I don't know, I guess it will depend on the situation. I have needed similar surgeries in the past, one time I needed it, the other time I didn't.

Here's yesterday's journal
 

May 06 2019

02:40 Went to sleep (took around 1:30h)
8:10 Woke up (stayed in bed for 30 min with overactive mind trying to solve a problem)
10:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol and a multivitamin
12:00 Lunch
16:30 Snack
16:50 Meditation during 20 minutes
18:00 Noticed that the light toe pain I felt during the day spread through the legs again, took 6.75g Kratom
21:30 Dinner
23:30 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
02:00 Slept


Thanks!


 

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Shep

Thanks for the additional information, EE.

 

How are you feeling throughout the day? Please include your symptoms, if you are having any, especially before and after you take your drugs. 

 

How is your sleep quality? 

 

22 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

8:10 Woke up (stayed in bed for 30 min with overactive mind trying to solve a problem)

 

The overactive mind sounds like it could be some early morning cortisol. Please see:

 

Waking with panic or anxiety - managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Do you eat breakfast? Eating breakfast can also help with the early morning cortisol spikes because some of the anxiety may be coming from low blood sugar from not eating since the day before. 

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EternalEmbrace

Hi, Shep
 

13 hours ago, Shep said:

How are you feeling throughout the day? Please include your symptoms, if you are having any, especially before and after you take your drugs.  

 

How is your sleep quality? 


I haven't had symptoms, I'm feeling OK overall, only somewhat hyper-sexual (through the whole day) but I thought that was not worth including. I have some unconscious content coming to mind every time when I wake up and think about it a lot. I analyze my dreams, search for answers and end up with insights. That process can be somewhat disturbing sometimes. But I also think it's not a symptom, it's just something that changed in me after the psychedelics experience and it's been very rewarding at the end. I think I will bring this to a new therapist (a Jungian psychologist as it seems I've found their services in an institution for an affordable price).

The sleep quality is very good too.
 

 

13 hours ago, Shep said:

The overactive mind sounds like it could be some early morning cortisol. Please see:

 

Waking with panic or anxiety - managing the morning cortisol spike

  

Do you eat breakfast? Eating breakfast can also help with the early morning cortisol spikes because some of the anxiety may be coming from low blood sugar from not eating since the day before.  


I drink juice (of many kinds) only. If I eat in the morning I can't eat later. I think it's not anxiety, it's just the big amount of thoughts I mentioned above. Which are becoming quieter in the last few days.

Here's yesterday's journal:
 

May 07 2019

02:00 Slept
07:30 Woke up
07:45 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, a multivitamin
08:00 Noticed a headache
11:00 The headache became strong and persistent so took 8.25g Kratom
12:00 Mild nausea (due to Kratom?)
13:00 Lunch
18:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
18:30 Dinner
20:30 Slept
05:30 Woke up


Thanks!

 

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11 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

I have some unconscious content coming to mind every time when I wake up and think about it a lot. I analyze my dreams, search for answers and end up with insights. That process can be somewhat disturbing sometimes. But I also think it's not a symptom, it's just something that changed in me after the psychedelics experience and it's been very rewarding at the end. I think I will bring this to a new therapist (a Jungian psychologist as it seems I've found their services in an institution for an affordable price).

 

 

There are other members who also like to explore these kinds of concepts. In fact, Jung is explored quite a bit in this thread in the Finding Meaning section:

 

Spirituality, Philosophy etc

 

 

11 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

07:45 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, a multivitamin
08:00 Noticed a headache
11:00 The headache became strong and persistent so took 8.25g Kratom

 

Two thoughts. I know you're not a fan of breakfast, but I'm wondering if your headache could have been from low blood sugar? You may want to try a high-protein, low sugar snack before taking a Kratom just to see if that will help. 

 

Another thought is the multivitamin may be ramping things up. Please see the link about this in my earlier post. 

 

11 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

I haven't had symptoms, I'm feeling OK overall,

 

From your drug and symptoms journal, you are getting symptoms, but you're controlling them with Kratom. 

 

A headache could be from low blood sugar or it could happen from stress or a number of things, but it can also be a symptom of withdrawal. 

 

 

 

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EternalEmbrace
1 hour ago, Shep said:

There are other members who also like to explore these kinds of concepts. In fact, Jung is explored quite a bit in this thread in the Finding Meaning section:

 

Spirituality, Philosophy etc


Thanks, I'm already reading through that session!
 

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Two thoughts. I know you're not a fan of breakfast, but I'm wondering if your headache could have been from low blood sugar? You may want to try a high-protein, low sugar snack before taking a Kratom just to see if that will help. 

 

Another thought is the multivitamin may be ramping things up. Please see the link about this in my earlier post. 


I will look into protein bars (I include cheese and milk in my diet)... I have ate them in the past and think they're not so bad.
 

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

From your drug and symptoms journal, you are getting symptoms, but you're controlling them with Kratom. 

 

A headache could be from low blood sugar or it could happen from stress or a number of things, but it can also be a symptom of withdrawal. 


I don't know if the pain is related to the Topiramate as I always had trouble with headaches and other kinds of "unexplained" pain since my childhood. That was many years before the psychiatric drugs. I also ate in a more organized way when I was little, and that didn't seem to help, actually it was worse that time. I once went to the ER and had to take morphine twice in a row for the worst pain in my life (a headache/migraine which came out of nothing) when I was a child and ended up fainting. I have been to a neurologist some 3 years ago and the brain scans were normal, so it's still "unexplained" by the doctors, they have no idea of the causes. So they kept giving me opiates and I continued getting more and more addicted as the years passed.

Here's my yesterday's journal

May 08 2019

05:30 Woke up
08:00 Juice
09:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol and a multivitamin
13:00 Lunch
20:00 Dinner
20:30 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
22:00 Slept
03:30 Woke up

I also forgot to mention that I take Vitamin D (can't remember the dosage because the box was finished) once a week for a couple of years now because my endocrinologist recommended it. I have low Vitamin D levels in my blood and he said that it causes many health problems.

Thanks!




 

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Shep
22 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

I will look into protein bars

 

Please be careful with protein bars, as many contain a lot of added vitamins that can ramp up symptoms (especially vitamin B), and some contain a lot of sugar and high-glycemic carbohydrates and additives. 

 

22 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

I also forgot to mention that I take Vitamin D (can't remember the dosage because the box was finished) once a week for a couple of years now because my endocrinologist recommended it. I have low Vitamin D levels in my blood and he said that it causes many health problems.

 

Some information on vitamin D

 

Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

 

Are you able to get outside every day for 30 minutes in the sunlight? That can also help with vitamin D levels. 

 

Please include the vitamin D in your journal when you take it. 

 

Was yesterday a better day? Noticed you didn't need the Kratom, which is a good sign. 

 

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On 5/10/2019 at 9:11 AM, Shep said:

Please be careful with protein bars, as many contain a lot of added vitamins that can ramp up symptoms (especially vitamin B), and some contain a lot of sugar and high-glycemic carbohydrates and additives. 


OK, I will keep attention on that!
 

 

On 5/10/2019 at 9:11 AM, Shep said:

Are you able to get outside every day for 30 minutes in the sunlight? That can also help with vitamin D levels. 


Not quite often, I don't walk around too much. But when I recover from surgery I will start to take a walk every other day near the beach.
 

 

On 5/10/2019 at 9:11 AM, Shep said:

 

Was yesterday a better day? Noticed you didn't need the Kratom, which is a good sign. 


Yes, these days have been OK overall. But I'm going through a lot of pain today because of the surgery (which was 5-6 hours ago). I din't need antibiotics but took Tramadol and Kratom so far.

Here are my previous days' journals
 

22:00 Slept
May 09 2019

03:30 Woke up
08:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol and a multivitamin
12:00 Lunch
19:00 Snack
19:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
19:30 Felt very tired and went to sleep, but took some time due to pain in the leg (the same of the toe)
(smoked 1 pipe bowl)
 

May 10 2019
04:00 Woke up
06:00 Slept again
07:30 Woke up
09:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol, multivitamin and vitamin D
13:30 Lunch
13:40 Rest - during 20-30 minutes
21:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
23:30 Slept
(smoked 4 cigarettes and 1 pipe bowl through the day)

May 11 2019
5:30 Woke up


Thanks!

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2 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

Tramadol and Kratom so far.

 

Please add the Tramadol to your signature, along with the date you started it and the dose. 

 

Account - Settings - Signature

 

This thread explains what Tramadol is. Please note it is a  a synthetic opioid and anti depressant (SNRI) combination. If you take this for more than a month, you will need to taper it. Hopefully you will not be on it long. 

 

Tips for Tapering Tramadol

 

I hope you recover from your surgery quickly and get some much needed relief from pain. 

 

Please let us know how you're doing. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 6:16 PM, Shep said:

Please add the Tramadol to your signature, along with the date you started it and the dose. 


Hi. It says " Your chosen signature does not meet the guidelines.", because it was already 12 lines long.

 

On 5/11/2019 at 6:16 PM, Shep said:

This thread explains what Tramadol is. Please note it is a  a synthetic opioid and anti depressant (SNRI) combination. If you take this for more than a month, you will need to taper it. Hopefully you will not be on it long. 


Definitely won't... I only have a few pills and only take it when I'm in moderate-strong pain.
 

 

On 5/11/2019 at 6:16 PM, Shep said:

I hope you recover from your surgery quickly and get some much needed relief from pain.  

 

Please let us know how you're doing. 


Thanks a lot!

Here's yesterday's journal

May 12 2019

5:30 Woke up
6:00 The pain was lighter than the day before, but I had to take 6.75g Kratom still
8:10 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol, multivitamin
14:00 Lunch
15:00 Rest for 1h
19:30 Snack
19:40 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
20:00 Rest for 2h
2:00 Sleep


 

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:45 AM, EternalEmbrace said:

Hi. It says " Your chosen signature does not meet the guidelines.", because it was already 12 lines long.

 

Very odd. Must be a software quirk because you don't even have 12 lines. I was able to add it to the end of your signature list. 

 

Please add the dose and dates of use for the Tramadol on the same line in your signature. If you have any trouble, please post this information in a regular post and I'll add it for you.

 

You state your pain was lighter yesterday, which is excellent. How are you feeling overall? 

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9 hours ago, Shep said:

Very odd. Must be a software quirk because you don't even have 12 lines. I was able to add it to the end of your signature list. 

 

Please add the dose and dates of use for the Tramadol on the same line in your signature. If you have any trouble, please post this information in a regular post and I'll add it for you. 


I managed to do it. Thank you!
 

 

9 hours ago, Shep said:

You state your pain was lighter yesterday, which is excellent. How are you feeling overall? 


Yes, it's becoming more and more bearable. I am not taking painkillers anymore. I'm having disturbing thoughts but I'm managing to deal with them in my own way. I will start Lacanian psychoanalisys, or Jungian therapy, soon.

Here's my yesterday's journal

May 13 2019
07:30 Woke up
08:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol, multivitamin
12:30 Lunch
13:00 Rest for 30 min
17:00 Snack
20:00 Rest for 3h
23:30 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
0:00 Sleep
(smoked 10 cigarettes throughout the day)

P.S: Forgot to include in previous journals that I started to smoke again in May 10, averaging 10 cigarettes per day.

 

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14 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

Yes, it's becoming more and more bearable. I am not taking painkillers anymore. I'm having disturbing thoughts but I'm managing to deal with them in my own way. I will start Lacanian psychoanalisys, or Jungian therapy, soon.

 

I'm glad you're doing so well now. 

 

Another resource you might like is Madness Radio. Will Hall is the host and he's also a psychiatric survivor and likes to interview really interesting guests. 

 

This is one on Process Oriented psychology, which is based in part on Carl Jung's work. 

 

Madness Radio - Process Oriented Counseling with Joe Goodbread

 

There are tons of other great interviews on that website you may enjoy. 

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14 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

P.S: Forgot to include in previous journals that I started to smoke again in May 10, averaging 10 cigarettes per day.

 

How long had you been off cigarettes before going back on? 

 

At some point, you may want to come off again, but perhaps taper them in a similar fashion as tapering a psych drug. Perhaps remove 1/4 a cigarette a week until you're completely off.

 

I had a friend on a benzo forum who did that after she came off her other drugs and she was very successful with only few withdrawal symptoms. 

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16 hours ago, Shep said:

I'm glad you're doing so well now. 

 

Another resource you might like is Madness Radio. Will Hall is the host and he's also a psychiatric survivor and likes to interview really interesting guests. 

 

This is one on Process Oriented psychology, which is based in part on Carl Jung's work. 

 

Madness Radio - Process Oriented Counseling with Joe Goodbread

 

There are tons of other great interviews on that website you may enjoy.  


Thank you, Shep!

 

16 hours ago, Shep said:

How long had you been off cigarettes before going back on? 


I can't remember exactly, but only a few days. No more than 3-5.

 

16 hours ago, Shep said:

At some point, you may want to come off again, but perhaps taper them in a similar fashion as tapering a psych drug. Perhaps remove 1/4 a cigarette a week until you're completely off.

 

I had a friend on a benzo forum who did that after she came off her other drugs and she was very successful with only few withdrawal symptoms. 


When I had quit cigarettes before, I didn't feel withdrawals from them. If/when I quit them in the future, I guess it will be cold turkey again (as it was in the past), because tapering makes me want to come back and keep smoking.

Here are the latest journals:

 

May 14 2019
0:00 Sleep

08:00 Woke up
10:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol, multivitamin
14:00 Lunch
16:00 Snack
19:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
20:30 Dinner
21:00 Sleep
 

May 15 2019
06:00 Woke up
08:00 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol, multivitamin
09:30 Ate something
13:30 Lunch
15:30 Rest for 3 hours
19:30 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
01:30 Slept
(around 10 cigarettes through the day)

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How are you feeling, EE? You don't have any symptoms listed in your journal, but you also didn't list Kratom, so I'm hoping you're not having pain and are doing well. 

 

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On 5/16/2019 at 9:10 AM, Shep said:

How are you feeling, EE? You don't have any symptoms listed in your journal, but you also didn't list Kratom, so I'm hoping you're not having pain and are doing well. 

 


Hi, Shep. I'm doing OK overall. I haven't felt any significant pain. Thanks for asking!

I've been wanting to ask this... Is there any prediction about the tapering plan?

Here's the latest journal
 

May 16 2019
04:00 Woke up
09:30 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol, multivitamin
10:00 Rest for 1:30h
13:30 Lunch
16:00 Rest for 2:30h
19:00 Dinner
19:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
21:00 Went to sleep
(around 10 cigarettes through the day)

May 17 2019
05:30 Woke up

Thank you


 

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EternalEmbrace

Yesterday's journal:

May 17 2019
05:30 Woke up
08:00 Rest for 1:30h
09:30 Took 200mg Lamotrigine, 60mg Dexanloprazole, 25mg Metoprolol, multivitamin, vitamin D
13:30 Lunch
14:00 Rest for 2h
00:00 Took 100mg Lamotrigine and 100mg Topiramate
(smoked around 12 cigarettes)


04:00 Slept
08:45 Woke up

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23 hours ago, EternalEmbrace said:

I've been wanting to ask this... Is there any prediction about the tapering plan?

 

You'll want to get to what's called Withdrawal Normal before you taper. Here is a good description of this:

 

WDNormal

 

Do you feel you're at the Withdrawal Normal level now? 

 

When someone comes into the forum on a cocktail of drugs, we usually suggest reducing the most stimulating drug first and the most sedating drug last in order to preserve sleep. But your particular drug cocktail doesn't have any drugs such as an antidepressant or stimulant that would be activating. You'll be the best person to judge which drug you wish to taper first, but let's keep sleep as the number one issue and try to preserve both the quantity and quality throughout your tapers. 

 

If you are still not sleeping well and would like to keep the 100 mg Lamotrigine and 100 mg Topiramate at night the same in order to preserve sleep, you may want to reduce the morning Lamotrigine first. Lamaotrigine has a half-life of 29 hours, so you may not want to completely come off it before reducing some of the nighttime dose due to the possibility of interdose withdrawal. 

 

Which drug would you like to reduce first based on your symptoms? How is your sleep quality and quantity? Do you feel rested? 

 

I also want to draw your attention to Dexlansoprazole and some vitamin deficiency issues that can arise with this class of drugs known as PPI (proton pump inhibitors). They can reduce the absorption of key vitamins, especially vitamin B12. Alto addresses this in the first post in her thread: 

 

Tips for tapering off stomach acid blockers or PPIs (esomeprazole, lansoprazole, omeprazole)

 

Although dexlansoprazole  isn't listed specifically in this thread, since it is a PPI, you may want to have a read. If there are some dietary changes that will help, you may want to check into those, as that could also help your with withdrawal symptoms because many of us become more sensitive to various foods during withdrawal. It's best to avoid sugar, caffeine, and processed foods. Some people report feeling better not eating gluten and / or dairy. 

 

Also, which drugs to you want to come off of? Since you are on two drugs that are not psych drugs, I'm unclear if you're interested in tapering off those or not. If you are interested in dietary changes and are able to deal with cholesterol issues in a more holistic way (especially due to the potential side effects of drugs like Metoprolol), here is some information that may be helpful if you wish to come off this drug:

 

Beta Blockers: Propranolol, Metopropol, Atenolol etc

 

If you want to make some dietary changes first before doing your taper, you may have an easier go of it. You also may want to take your doses in a more consistent manner  - at the same time everyday. Even a couple hours off each day is very confusing to the nervous system. Your nervous system is fighting for stability. The more you can help it along by being consistent, the better you'll feel in the long run. 

 

If you want to take a few weeks to make some dietary and lifestyle changes in order to prepare for your taper, I think you'll have an easier go of it. Please post your thoughts on these issues and we can help you set up a game plan for how and what you should reduce first. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Shep said:

Do you feel you're at the Withdrawal Normal level now? 


Yes, actually I had a similar concept in mind since I have been tapering for 1 year now, I just hadn't put a name on it. I feel pretty much like this. Not great, but far from what I call withdrawal symptoms (since I know Topiramate withdrawals very well for example and I'm intimate with them [Lamotrigine  tapering never caused me withdrawals, I don't know why]).

 

26 minutes ago, Shep said:

Which drug would you like to reduce first based on your symptoms? How is your sleep quality and quantity? Do you feel rested? 


I would like to wean off the Topiramate first, because I like to solve the most difficult problems first. Topiramate has always been more difficult for me to deal with, because tapering it makes me angry. So I would like to go through this first, and leave the easier part (Lamotrigine) for later. My sleep times are irregular from what you see in the journal, but I always feel very rested. If I don't sleep 8 hours at night, I rest 2 more hours during the day or so. I have no problem with getting adequate amounts of sleep.
 

27 minutes ago, Shep said:

If you are interested in dietary changes and are able to deal with cholesterol issues in a more holistic way (especially due to the potential side effects of drugs like Metoprolol), here is some information that may be helpful if you wish to come off this drug:


Actually I have low cholesterol at the moment, I take it due to arrhythmia.

 

26 minutes ago, Shep said:

Also, which drugs to you want to come off of? 


I would like to come off of Metoprolol, but only after the psych drugs. In those cases I would like to visit the cardiologist first, maybe take another arrhythmia test to see how things are at the moment etc. About the Dexanloprazole I don't know what I can do to replace it, because when I don't take it I get heartburn. But I'm also interested in replacing it with some natural alternative later.


 

 

26 minutes ago, Shep said:

You also may want to take your doses in a more consistent manner  - at the same time everyday.


I will try to do this. My sleep/wake times are very unusual and that affects the time of my drug intakes, but I will try to watch this.

Thanks!



 

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, EternalEmbrace said:

I would like to wean off the Topiramate first, because I like to solve the most difficult problems first. Topiramate has always been more difficult for me to deal with, because tapering it makes me angry. So I would like to go through this first, and leave the easier part (Lamotrigine) for later.

 

Thanks for answering all of the above questions. Since you know you wish to taper the Topiramate first, let's work with this. 

 

Here is some information on rage during withdrawal. It's based on SSRI-induced rage, but I think it will provide some good information for coming off any drug. 

 

Dealing with anger during SSRI withdrawal

 

Neuro-emotions are also at play during withdrawal and if you can find ways to prevent going into an emotional spiral, you can learn how to handle these surges of emotions. 

 

Neuro emotions

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

We don't have a "tips for tapering off" thread for Topiramate, but the 10% a month or less harm-reduction standard will work well. However, since this is a hard drug for you to withdrawal from, would you be more comfortable with a micro-taper? Here is some information:

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases
 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

Since your previous reductions were very rapid, most recently, going from 200 mg to 150 mg in April (a 25% reduction) and then down to 100 mg (a 33% reduction), your anger symptoms were likely due to the rate of reduction. 

 

Because anger can cause so many problems, including legal problems, I would advise a micro-taper going forward for at least a couple of months. If you do well with a 5% monthly taper, you could always increase to 10% then. 

 

Please post your thoughts. 

Edited by Shep
fixed typo

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One other thought, EE.

 

Your headaches from earlier on in your thread may be specific to the Topiramate reductions. Topiramate isn't just prescribed to those labeled with so-called "bipolar disorder". It's also used for migraines. 

 

Even more reason to start out with a micro-taper to see how you do. 

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Shep, interestingly enough, I only felt anger in the first Topiramate cuts (500 to 400 to 300 etc). From 150 to 100 I was perfectly calm. I believe this has to do with the mushrooms and HBWR experiences. I haven't felt true anger like I felt before after those, and I've been through some "mind-testing" situations.

 

About the micro-tapering, I read the thread and my pills are 25 and 50 mg, só it would be very complicated to divide them in incredibly small doses. I also think it isn't necessary. The smallest accurate dose I can break a pill is 12.5mg, which is 12.5%. I could try 1/4 of a pill but It wouldn't be too accurate.

 

Given the fact that I did well on 33.3%/month, do you think 12.5 mg / % would be good? Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
On 5/18/2019 at 11:48 AM, EternalEmbrace said:

About the micro-tapering, I read the thread and my pills are 25 and 50 mg, só it would be very complicated to divide them in incredibly small doses. I also think it isn't necessary. The smallest accurate dose I can break a pill is 12.5mg, which is 12.5%. I could try 1/4 of a pill but It wouldn't be too accurate.

 

Given the fact that I did well on 33.3%/month, do you think 12.5 mg / % would be good? Thanks!

 

Let's stick to 10% or less per month. Some people don't have major upticks in symptoms on the lower doses, but many people do.

 

This is a thread on SSRIs, but from the anecdotal reports here and on other forums, the lower doses can be especially problematic for some people on any type of psychiatric drug. 

 

Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

To be able to do these types of small reductions, you'll need to either work with a scale or dissolve the pill in liquid. For more information, please see:

 

After you have a chance to read over these links, please post which method you're most comfortable with and any questions you have. We can walk you through the process for either method and make sure you have the correct supplies. 

 

 

Edited by Shep
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