Shadow: completely off venlafaxine, Trazodone

[Shadow]

Have been off venlafaxine since November 2017 ( after 16 years) ; went on trazodone and Reboxetine until Nov 2018 and have been drug free since. However really struggling recently despite taking omega 3 / CBD / exercises etc. Problems include fatigue, very low mood, anxiety, no interest in what’s happening around me, can be upset by the most minor event etc. Tempted to try some other drug that may help as I am finding it really hard. How long do the withdrawal effects last and is there hope in persevering?

[SkyBlue]

On 4/29/2019 at 7:15 AM, Shadow said:

Have been off venlafaxine since November 2017 ( after 16 years) ; went on trazodone and Reboxetine until Nov 2018 and have been drug free since. However really struggling recently despite taking omega 3 / CBD / exercises etc. Problems include fatigue, very low mood, anxiety, no interest in what’s happening around me, can be upset by the most minor event etc. Tempted to try some other drug that may help as I am finding it really hard. How long do the withdrawal effects last and is there hope in persevering?

 

Hi Shadow and welcome to SA.

 

To help us know a little more about you, please create a brief drug signature: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/18343-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/.

 

There's not a unified answer for "how long this all takes"-- and we all really, really want to know that.

The good news is: you're not alone. And--you will heal. 

We just don't know how long it will take. 

 

To that end, have a read of this thread by Brassmonkey: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17909-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/

 

He's addressed many of the "how long will this take issues."

 

 

Have you noticed any improvements or worsening after starting CBD? Many in withdrawal find it too activating.

[SkyBlue]

Let us know, also, what non-drug coping techniques you're trying.

 

You're exercising, which is great. What kind of exercise? I ask because, paradoxically, many in withdrawal don't tolerate intense exercise. That doesn't mean we can't exercise! Just that we might need to focus on slightly less intense exercise than we might prefer. I'm definitely pro-exercise though.

 

Here are some more ideas: 

 

[Shadow]

I am struggling with low mood (depression) and anxiety. My Dr knows that I am not keen on going back in SSRIs and has suggested mood stabilisers - either Lamotrigine  or Pregabalin. Has anyone had any experience of either of these drugs? 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Shadow,

 

You may not have seen the response which has already been made to your first post and the links which were provided.

 

What you are experiencing may be withdrawal symptoms:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

SA is a site for reducing/going off psychiatric drugs. Please ensure that you do thorough research about any drugs which are suggested by your doctor.  We have members here at SA who are having difficulties getting off these drugs.  Both Lamictal and Pregabalin would need to be tapered.

 

Tips for tapering off Lyrica (pregabalin)

Tips for tapering off Lamictal (lamotrigine)

lamictal-lamotrigine-to-calm-post-discontinuation-withdrawal-symptoms

 

On 5/2/2019 at 2:17 AM, SkyBlue said:

Let us know, also, what non-drug coping techniques you're trying.

 

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques.  I will provide some links in the next post.

 

Here's some additional information which might help you to understand what is happening:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

[ChessieCat]

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

 

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

[Shadow]

Titled:  Anti inflammatory drugs

 

I continue to struggle with my depression and am constantly looking for answers. Recently a lot of interest is being shown in anti inflammatory drugs as a possible treatment for depression. Has anyone got any experience of this? Thanks 

Edited January 23, 2020 by manymoretodays
added title, moved from off topic

[Shadow]

Just for clarification immuno-psychiatry is looking at the connection between the brain and the immune system and Cambridge University has evidenced that inflammation of the body can have a direct causal effect on the human brain and mood.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Shadow, @Shadow

 

I just moved your new topic from "Off topic" to here.  As I'm not finding a relevant topic already.  And I hate to see your most recent posts get lost, or unseen.

This sounds interesting.

We don't generally subscibe to diagnoses here too much, I mean not in the way that mainstream psychiaty does.

I think sure, if one has any kind of illness going on, it could make for a low mood.  Beyond that I, personally, have stopped searching for any more drug treatments for my own withdrawal syndrome.  Doing pretty well overall, 3 years plus out now.

 

I'm wondering too, where you are at?  Any chance you could do a signature for us?  So helpful to the mods and other members.

Please put your withdrawal history in a signature

 

And sorry to hear that you may be still struggling with symptoms of low mood.  Many of us adopt non-drug coping tools to help us get through some of the harsher symptoms that tend to come in waves and windows in protracted acute withdrawal syndrome.

 

Okie doke, and best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by manymoretodays
added an @ notification for member

[Altostrata]

Shadow, how have your symptoms changed in the last 6 months? How's your sleep?

 

How do you experience "depression"?

 

The "inflammation" theory of depression is psychiatry's latest attempt to find a biological basis for mood disorders. It is based on the observation that very sick people, who have bodily inflammation, are often depressed. I leave you to consider the sense of that theory.

 

Anti-inflammatories, such as ibuprofen, are readily available at the pharmacy. Take care not to use too often, as they can cause gut erosion.

 

A lot of people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[lxjuice]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:21 PM, Shadow said:

Just for clarification immuno-psychiatry is looking at the connection between the brain and the immune system and Cambridge University has evidenced that inflammation of the body can have a direct causal effect on the human brain and mood.

 

It's not really relevant unless your depression does actually involve high inflammation. Studies have suggested it could help if you have >3-5mg/ml C-reactive protein but there is not enough research on it yet. Personally, I would try and get a blood test first because as alto said, NSAIDs are not completely safe for long term use.

[Shadow]

Titled:  Mirtazapine withdrawal after low dosage

 

I have been on 15mg mirtazapine since 1/12/19 in the hope that this would help with my insomnia and continuing depression. It hasn’t helped all that much with my sleep and certainly not with my depression. I want to come off it completely and would appreciate some advice on whether I can do this quickly given that i be only been on it for 2 months.

Thanks 

Edited February 2, 2020 by manymoretodays
merged from tapering to introduction, added title

[manymoretodays]

Hi Shadow, @Shadow

It's not that I am shadowing you, just that I found another post of yours in tapering and have merged it on back here to your introduction.

This is your main topic, where all questions around your specific case should go.  And so very helpful to have your information in one place.  This is where you should ask questions specific to you, as well as update, and also a great place to communicate with other members for support too.

Can you bookmark this page?

 

And could you give a signature a try too, please: 

Please put your withdrawal history in a signature

^ this link will explain this for you and how to do so.  This helps us out so much.

Shadow, have you been on the mirtazapine for 2 months or for 2 weeks.  Best to spell out the month, for example: 2019 December 1st, if that is when you started the mirtazapine.  Otherwise, it could be confused with January 12th 2019.  As it did me, on further reading of your post.

 

3 hours ago, Shadow said:

Titled:  Mirtazapine withdrawal after low dosage

 

I have been on 15mg mirtazapine since 1/12/19 in the hope that this would help with my insomnia and continuing depression. It hasn’t helped all that much with my sleep and certainly not with my depression. I want to come off it completely and would appreciate some advice on whether I can do this quickly given that i be only been on it for 2 months.

Thanks 

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Best to get at least somewhat familiar with the information ^, before beginning your taper.  After 2 months, no doubt that your body has become dependent upon the mirtazapine, and if I was you, with your history of medications(some which I've found in above narratives), I would sure want to start slowly, to minimize discomfort and potential new WD as much as possible.

Tips for tapering off mirtazapine(Remeron)

 

On 1/24/2020 at 10:38 AM, Altostrata said:

Shadow, how have your symptoms changed in the last 6 months? How's your sleep?

 

How do you experience "depression"?

......and did you see Alto's response above to your other post around inflammation and it's relation to depression?

 

All for now.  Happy to help you get started with a mirtazapine taper, once we get more information from you.  Thank you Shadow.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by manymoretodays
bolded, additional ?

[Altostrata]

Shadow, how does mirtazpine affect you?

 

You only started taking it in mid-January, last month, correct?

[Shadow]

Started 1 December 2019 in order to help with insomnia and anxiety. Sleep is more settled and anxiety levels reduced but depression back with a vengeance. Also more irritable and short tempered which is a new thing for me. 

Have had about 4 good days since I started but depression / low mood worse. Have just gone through 2 very difficult days today and yesterday. 

I am off on holiday to the sun for 2 weeks and so thought it would be a good way to cut down and wean myself off them. My Dr suggested doubling the dosage but whenever i heard this I thought No! 

Not sure what best course of action is and really struggling at times to cope. 

Really appreciate this site and those who contribute so clearly about their own battles.

thank you

 

 

[Shadow]

Mirtazapine Tapering

I started on 15m mirtazapine in December 2019 and this was increased to 30m by my Dr on 20 April 2020. I have been on 30 m since that date. This was prescribed to ease my anxiety and depression.

So far this has not worked. I wake up each day with anxiety which at times is very severe and the depression has not eased either. The anxiety eases as the day progresses but hardly ever goes away. In addition to this my sleep pattern has deteriorated due to what I can only diagnose as restless leg syndrome resulting in as little as 3-4 hours sleep per night.

i wish to stop using mirtazapine but given my awful experience coming off venlafaxine after 16 years ( off since November 2018) I am worried about this process and would welcome any advice. I only have 15m tablets and was thinking of reducing to 15 m quite quickly as I have only been in 30m for 9 weeks - maybe reducing by 15m every second day for 1 or 2 weeks but not sure what I should do after that?

I try and keep both my depression and anxiety under controls by exercise and meditation which does help.

 

Any advice will be gratefully received.

Thanks 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

Please ask questions here in your Introduction topic.  This way all your information is in one place.

 

So that we can see your drug history at a glance please create your drug signature.  Please include any other drugs you have previously or are currently taking.  Instructions for what is needed:  please-summarize-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature

 

This link goes to your signature.  Remember to Save after creating/editing it.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Thank you.

 

I've asked the other mods for their assistance.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Shadow.

 

It sounds like you are taking too much mirtazapine. Since you have 15mg tablets, you can make a liquid from one of the 2 you take each night and gradually reduce your dosage by taking less liquid in each step.

 

See Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by ChessieCat
fixed link

[Shadow]

Mirtazapine tapering

 

Unfortunately I went back on to mirtazapine in November 2019 (15m) which was increased to 30m in February 2020. This has not helped me at all and I now suffer from low mood and anxiety. I have managed so far to reduce my daily intake to 18.75m (by cutting the tablet) and would welcome some advice on how best to come completely off the drug.

 

For many years I was on the cocktail of mirtazapine and venlafaxine and managed to come off them both. Why I agreed to go back on mirtazapine I don’t know - I know I was struggling with low mood at the time and thought it might help. I don’t wish to jeopardise my mood further and would find help with a timeline for withdrawal really useful.

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

On 6/24/2020 at 11:43 AM, Altostrata said:

 

See Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

 

 

The original link to this topic didn't work.  I have now updated it.

[ChessieCat]

24 minutes ago, Shadow said:

timeline for withdrawal

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?