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psychaos

psychaos: A long taperingprocess ahead...

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psychaos

Hi all. For me the trouble started in 2009 when i was in my last semester of college. For 3 years i lived at a student home where i had the best time of my life. Partying, smoking weed, going out, hanging out, cooking the food i want, making new friends, girlfriends etc. The tought of going home again after 3 years was making me feel a little depressed during the last semester. When I eventualy was home again and started my first job it hit hard. After a week of working there i was severly depressed and couldnt sleep anymore, was anxious about a lot of things. I went to my doctor and explained my situation. He put me on mirtazipine, that worked for the insomnia but that’s it.

I had side effects like beeing nauseous all the time and sometimes loosing my balance. I had a job as a technical engineer who was working on heavy and dangerous machines, so I was anxious for doing wrong things that could kill me. After a few months I went back to the doctor and told him it wasn’t working, so he put me on another AD Cymbalta.

 

During these first months of working I also quited smoking weed, After starting the cymbalta I also started smoking again, together with that and changing jobs I got back into positive spiral, quited the cymbalta with tapering down on my doctors advice(had brainzaps for a few weeks but nothing more). That lasted till my boss changed my function in the company due to the financial crisis. After a few months in my new job I was getting depressed again and I chose to change jobs again, that was at the end of 2010.

From january 2011 till september-october it went well but then I got back into the negative spiral. I went back on the cymbalta and that was the beginning of HELL.

 

On newyears eve I went to my first goa-party and did LSD for the first time, Awsome experience! I also played poker a lot that period and occasionally then I did cocaine. At the end of february when coming back from a trip to Portugal I felt a lot of energy, no depression, feeling like the king of the world… Didn’t know this was (hypo)mania. I quited my job, I just walked out one day without saying anything never to return. From february until may I partied, went to bars, the casino, spending money, doing a lot goa-parties. Sleeping less and less because I didn’t feel tired at all, LSD,coke,weed, etc. Eventually I got into a severe manic-psychose.

 

I was forced into a psych ward (for 30 days at first)were I was tied down in the isolation unit for a couple of weeks until I got less manic-psychotic. They gave me Zyprexa & Etumine.

When I stabilized after a month and or so I heard that I was forced for another 3 months because my psychose was so severe. I tought ok, I can live with that.

 

I changed from the crisis department in the psych ward to the addicts department. There I was left to rot ,I developed severe depression & anhedonia in a few weeks. I told to the psydoc that I was depressed and wanted Cymbalta, didn’t get it but he upped my Zyprexa, without result. A month later I said to him that it’s getting worse so he added Abilfy. That didn do anything but side effects like I couldn’t keep my legs still, my walking style changed, I stiffened in walking, my eyesight was weird I kept involuntary staring at things. During that time at the addicts department the only therapy I got was 2 times a week one hour of fitnesstherapy and the rest of time was ergotherapy, were nothing interested me. Soon I quited the ergotherapy and stayed in bed all day watching TV.

After the 3 months were gone I tought it was over. Wrong, my psydoc said you are not stable! I was forced another 3 months. At the addicts department most people were talkative and I was silent. At the beginning they said to me that it will get better and understood me, but after a while no one talked to me…

After some time I asked to be moved to the psychose-departement for the time I was left there.

I got there and it was quiter and the nurses were friendlier and took care of the patients. But the psydoc there (a new one) forced me another 3 months there, I was in no state to leave the hospital she said.

But I got my Cymbalta back, hoped it will work, but it didn. After those 3 months I wasnt forced to be there anymore but they advised that I would. I got the hell out of the psych ward!

I quited the AP’s (zyprexa, Abilify) CT. At first when I was back home I stayed most of the time in my bed, I don’t think I realy had WD symptoms. Time went by and I started to do things again and had interest in wat was going on in the world.

 

It went wrong again at some point because I was using weed and coke again. Had another manic-psychose and was forced to the psychward again.

Was forced Zyphadera(liquid Zyprexa) injections, seroquel XR, depakote and diazepam. After 4-6 months I was allowed to go home and live with my parents, again I was a zombie.

 

For months I dindn do much. I did keep taking my meds until the point I went out to go fishing a lot (mostly at night) I forgot to take my meds on regularly base, slept not enough and got manic again. I checked in to the psychward voluntarily because my parents said it was getting out of control again. After 2 hours there they told me that I was again forced to stay there… same story: stabilized after a few weeks then going down into a downwards spiral again. That was around may 2016

when I got out I was taking: zyprexa(10mg), seroquel (200mg), depakote(1000mg), trazodone(100mg)

 

That was currently my last vacation @ the psych ward.

 

Now I go to my usual doctor to get my Rx’s. He also given me effexor (150mg) and citalopram (10mg) for depression but I don’t think it’s working…

I keep taking my meds as I should but i’m anhedonic, no interest in anything, no energy, fat because of the AP’s etc.

 

At my last visit with my doc I asked to maybe change something to my meds because i’m tired all day and he changed my seroquel from 200 to 100mg. At that point I started to do research about withdrawal symptoms and general info about AP’s and AD’s when I got to this forum.

 

Currently after 3 weeks of my taper from 200 to 100mg seroquel i’m feeling no WD symptoms.

 

I’m now taking: 10mg zyprexa, 100mg seroquel, 150mg effexor, 10mg citalopram, 100mg trazodone

I want to get off of as much of these drugs as possible as I fear i’m going to be a zombie for life.

I don’t do weed, lsd, or coke only sometimes a lite stimulant to get something done...

 

Any of you guys know what to taper first?

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
changed font for easier reading

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Gridley

Hello, psychaos, and welcome to SA.  We'll be happy to help you with tapering.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.  Drugs prior to this can be listed in a summary.  Please include whether the Venlafaxine is extended or regular release.
 
 
We advise tapering only one drug at a time.  Otherwise, if problems arise, it will be impossible to know what taper is causing the difficulty.
Generally we advise tapering the more activating drug first (called accelerators) while leaving the more sedating drugs (called brakes) for later  to help you with the withdrawal from the activating drug.  SSRI and SNRI antidepressants are activating, while antipsychotics like Seroquel and Zyprexa are bakes.  Trazodone, while an antidepressant, is more of a brake than an accelerator.  Of the two other antidepressants you're taking, Venlafaxine is probably the more activating, and it would be my recommendation that you begin with tapering it.

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?
 
We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.
 
 
This link explains how to taper Venlafaxine and obtain 10% of your current dose.
 
This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.  I hope you’ll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation.  I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.

 

 

 
 


 

 

 

Edited by Gridley

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Altostrata

Welcome, psychaos.

 

All doctors are instructed to distinguish drug-induced psychotic symptoms (from drugs such as cocaine, MDMA, etc.) but many do not. You have been treated for years for an iatrogenic condition, which hasn't been helped by your subsequent adventures with party drugs.

 

This is a site for going off drugs. Unless you are having adverse reactions to your drugs, this won't make you "feel better." You'll still have to cope with your daily life off drugs.

 

We don't help people fine-tune their drug cocktails to attain a state of happiness. All we do is help people go off drugs. You will not be able to use party drugs or drink while you're tapering, this messes up your symptom pattern.

 

If your only current symptom is emotional anesthesia, it's likely that's a side effect of the drugs you're taking now or your drug history. What are your current most prominent symptoms? Are they worse at any particular time of day?

 

What is your sleep pattern? Why are you taking trazodone?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, with their dosages? Are you taking any gray market drugs?

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 

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psychaos
17 hours ago, Gridley said:

Hello, psychaos, and welcome to SA.  We'll be happy to help you with tapering.

 

Thx, i've read allready on some of the topics and i found it interesting.

I'm also concerned about my health and future health because of these drugs, i never got really informed that it can mess you up...

 

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

All doctors are instructed to distinguish drug-induced psychotic symptoms (from drugs such as cocaine, MDMA, etc.) but many do not. You have been treated for years for an iatrogenic condition, which hasn't been helped by your subsequent adventures with party drugs. 

 

i've been diagnosed with schizophrenia, autism, schizo-affective,schizo-typical,bipolar

I was like a lab rat for testing out meds

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

This is a site for going off drugs. Unless you are having adverse reactions to your drugs, this won't make you "feel better." You'll still have to cope with your daily life off drugs. 

 

We don't help people fine-tune their drug cocktails to attain a state of happiness. All we do is help people go off drugs. You will not be able to use party drugs or drink while you're tapering, this messes up your symptom pattern. 

 

If your only current symptom is emotional anesthesia, it's likely that's a side effect of the drugs you're taking now or your drug history. What are your current most prominent symptoms? Are they worse at any particular time of day? 

 

I know this site is for going off drugs, I want to because i think after reading (and my side effects to medication) it necessary that i need to be off

I don't drink much alcohol for the moment because i don't have the need, party drugs either, but sometimes i take a light stimulant (dopamine releaser) if i have a realy bad day(trying to keep it to a minimum...) .

 

For the moment i have the following symptoms that i don't like: no feeling of emotions, no inspiration, no motivation, bad memory, feeling tired all day, strange feeling when walking(i used to walk more 'flexible'), having a 'flat' face

my mood is usually bad in the morning and lifts a bit over day and in the evening it starts to drop again...

 

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What is your sleep pattern? Why are you taking trazodone?

 

the trazodone was given for insomnia. I go to sleep at 9pm, usually i lay awake for an hour or so and fall a sleep. waking up a couple of times a night but can sleep till 9 am or so.

 

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What times of day do you take your drugs, with their dosages? Are you taking any gray market drugs? 

at morning: 75mg effexor, 500mg depakote, 10mg escitalopram, 5mg zyprexa

at night: 100mg seroquel, 75mg effexor, 5mg zyprexa, 100mg trazodone

if needed once in a while i take 3-FPM, a research chemical, if i realy need things to be done or when i'm feeling very bad.

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 here we go: https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,2296-1524,1744-1113,1979-1274,1013-0,918-484

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Altostrata
3 hours ago, psychaos said:

sometimes i take a light stimulant (dopamine releaser) if i have a realy bad day(trying to keep it to a minimum...) .

 

What is this? Is it 3-FPM? How do you get it? What does it do for you?

 

You will not be able to indulge in ANY alcohol, not even a little drink, while tapering.

 

3 hours ago, psychaos said:

 

As you can see, your cocktail -- which, by the way, is very peculiar -- may cause a number of serious adverse reactions.

 

As far as psychiatry has any rules, no more than one antidepressant should be prescribed at a time, yet you're taking 3 of them, which suggests one or more of your prescribers is incompetent.

 

It's likely the combination of drugs, particularly Depakote and Zyprexa, is causing you to feel like a zombie. If I were you, I'd taper the Depakote first, it's the most dangerous drug (followed by Zyprexa). See Tips for tapering off sodium valproate and valproic acid (divalproex sodium, Depakote, Depakene)

 

This is very important: If you want to reduce your drugs, you will need to learn to manage your behavior so that you're not sent to a psychiatrist or hospitalized again, as that probably would mean they'd add to your drugs.

 

It's your responsibility to do this. You will need to taper carefully, not panic at symptoms, and not indulge in gray market drugs or alcohol along the way.

 

To assist you in monitoring your symptoms, if any arise, we will request frequent reports of daily symptom pattern.  Since you're taking a complex cocktail, you might get into the habit of keeping daily notes showing times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

If you accidentally skip a dose or take a drug off-schedule, it could affect your symptom pattern. We need to know that to differentiate irregular dosing or drug-drug interaction from withdrawal symptoms.

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psychaos
1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

What is this? Is it 3-FPM? How do you get it? What does it do for you? 

 

Yes that''s the 3-FPM, i get it from a trustable source over the internet. First heard about it from somebody that has similar problems like me.

When I take it in the morning I feel I have more energy, inspiration to do things, some emotions come back, more able to concentrate on things (for example just watching a movie is possible then, without it, I loose focus and forget what's the movie about)

Also heard about this from students who use it while studying and got better results than without it.

I know it's not the solution, but sometimes it's nice to feel some emotion and the satisfaction of doing something that day.

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You will not be able to indulge in ANY alcohol, not even a little drink, while tapering.

I'm aware of that and will try it, hope that I can resist it but currently don't have the need to because of the meds making me drowsy after alcohol

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

As far as psychiatry has any rules, no more than one antidepressant should be prescribed at a time, yet you're taking 3 of them, which suggests one or more of your prescribers is incompetent. 

 

Yes i have that feeling too that some of them are incompetent... for example: my first visit at the psych ward I was on 3 AP's at the same time. I told that I was feeling depressed/zombielike, they just upped my dose of AP and said that would help...

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It's likely the combination of drugs, particularly Depakote and Zyprexa, is causing you to feel like a zombie. If I were you, I'd taper the Depakote first, it's the most dangerous drug (followed by Zyprexa)

 

I have the same feeling about these 2. after reading a topic here about wich to taper first, i tought about these 2 because depakote has a bad effect on the liver and the zyprexa can make you develop diabetes... Also in 2014 i think i had a pulmonary embolism and was hospitalized. Everybody at the hospital told me I was very young to develop something like that. After some research on zyprexa I found out that it's a possible side effect of that drug (No doc or psydoc told me this was due to the zyprexa...).

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

This is very important: If you want to reduce your drugs, you will need to learn to manage your behavior so that you're not sent to a psychiatrist or hospitalized again, as that probably would mean they'd add to your drugs. 

 

It's your responsibility to do this. You will need to taper carefully, not panic at symptoms, and not indulge in gray market drugs or alcohol along the way. 

  

 

I plan to do it the right way. And hope it works out well

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

To assist you in monitoring your symptoms, if any arise, we will request frequent reports of daily symptom pattern.  Since you're taking a complex cocktail, you might get into the habit of keeping daily notes showing times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right. 

  

If you accidentally skip a dose or take a drug off-schedule, it could affect your symptom pattern. We need to know that to differentiate irregular dosing or drug-drug interaction from withdrawal symptoms. 

 

Thanks for this, and all the information on this site. The last few weeks i've been researching on this topic gave me some courage that it maybe will work out well

 

 

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Altostrata
21 minutes ago, psychaos said:

Yes that''s the 3-FPM, i get it from a trustable source over the internet. First heard about it from somebody that has similar problems like me.

When I take it in the morning I feel I have more energy, inspiration to do things, some emotions come back, more able to concentrate on things (for example just watching a movie is possible then, without it, I loose focus and forget what's the movie about)

Also heard about this from students who use it while studying and got better results than without it.

I know it's not the solution, but sometimes it's nice to feel some emotion and the satisfaction of doing something that day.

 

 

I am uneasy about this drug. It may be an amphetamine.

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brassmonkey

3-FPM is a norepinephrine and dopamine releasing agent, therefore has the affect of an SNRI and SDRI but caused by directly flooding the body with neurotransmitters instead of blocking their reuptake.

 

This substance is classed as illegal to sell or possess in several countries and is highly controlled in others including several parts of the EU.  As such any discussion or advocation of its use is not acceptable on SA.  If you wish to use it, that is your decision, but because of its properties it is more than likely to have adverse affects on any ADWD attempt.

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Altostrata
3 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

3-FPM is a norepinephrine and dopamine releasing agent, therefore has the affect of an SNRI and SDRI but caused by directly flooding the body with neurotransmitters instead of blocking their reuptake.

 

This substance is classed as illegal to sell or possess in several countries and is highly controlled in others including several parts of the EU.  As such any discussion or advocation of its use is not acceptable on SA.  If you wish to use it, that is your decision, but because of its properties it is more than likely to have adverse affects on any ADWD attempt.

 

@psychaos It's going to make it very difficult for us to work with you if you continue to take this drug. We don't know anything about it or its unintended consequences.

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psychaos
13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I am uneasy about this drug. It may be an amphetamine.

 

10 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

3-FPM is a norepinephrine and dopamine releasing agent, therefore has the affect of an SNRI and SDRI but caused by directly flooding the body with neurotransmitters instead of blocking their reuptake.

 

This substance is classed as illegal to sell or possess in several countries and is highly controlled in others including several parts of the EU.  As such any discussion or advocation of its use is not acceptable on SA.  If you wish to use it, that is your decision, but because of its properties it is more than likely to have adverse affects on any ADWD attempt. 

 

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It's going to make it very difficult for us to work with you if you continue to take this drug. We don't know anything about it or its unintended consequences.

 

It's been over a month ago since i last used it and i don't have it laying around here anymore.

Because it's related to amphetamines i'm not planning to use it when i'm tapering, i don't want another psychosis... 

 

I have abused substances since i was 16years old, now I do quite 'well' on that topic. I'm not addicted to something as I have been in the passed.

 

14'th may @ 10am took 500mg depakote,75mg effexor, 5mg zyprexa,10mg escitalopram. last 3 mornings I have less drowsiness and trouble to get out of bed

 

 

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psychaos

@Altostrata In what way you think Depakote is more dangerous than Zyprexa ? I'm planning on taking your advise and taper down the Depakote first.

In about 10days i'm getting new prescriptions and also have my bloodwork checked for sugar and liverproblems.

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Altostrata

Please look up adverse effects of both Depakote and Zyprexa.

 

If you take any random drugs, we're not going to be able to help you. If you have a bad reaction, you'll screw up your taper. We can't help people who go over the edge of self-harm.

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