Crt1: antidepressant side effects

[Crt1]

Hello to everyone, my story with antidepressant starts on 15-1-2019. Prior to this for 1 month I was in a panic and anxiety crisis, mainly due to work-related stress. I managed to overcome it almost completely but I was afraid and to be able to continue my work, I went to a psychiatrist's doctor. He gave me a citalopram solution, I started with 2 drops for 7 days. That was enough to make me a huge problem! The doctor did not believe me, or thought I was causing it from my anxiety, but I did not feel that before. I stopped myself on the seventh day, but for 1.5 months I could not be good. I had headache, insomnia, anxiety, I had to stop my job. I went to another doctor, nor did he believe that the drug created my problem. He gave me and started escitalopram first 5mg and after 10mg. Now I'm 75 days from the beginning I started. Anxiety and headache have improved, but insomnia persists, while I have new side effects, my nose shuts and I feel pain in the sinuses, I feel light-headed, the heartbeat has been reduced a little and I have tinnitus. Even though I do not have anxiety, I do not feel good and I can not work, especially the pain in my sinuses causes sinusitis and I'm sensitive to it. My doctor told me to stay for 1 year and then stop it. I want to stop it much earlier. But because of what happened at the beginning, I'm afraid and I'm looking for a way to do it without having the same problems. So I found this website too.

 

Do you think it's easier for someone to stop it when it's been used for months or more time?

 

Unfortunately I can not find escitalopram in a solution form, I think to turn the pills into a solution with water.

 

Despite the fact that I have been taking it for months, I will apply the 10% method.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Crt1 and welcome aboard,

 

It can be hard to predict who might have an easier time coming off AD's(antidepressants).

I think as your usage, so far, has been under a years times........you might be able to get through WD(withdrawal) eventually, with less distress over all.

 

Really important, often, is finding non-drug coping skills to manage stress. 

 

And as you found, sometimes work stress and life stressors,  can be the culprit for so much of what throws us off balance.

 

Thank you so much too, for getting your signature done.

 

Here at Surviving Antidepressants, it is recommended that a person taper by no more than 10% of their current dose with at least a four week hold in-between decreases.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.

*Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

  

*Tips for tapering off Lexapro

definitely take a good look at this link and you can consider making your own liquid, if need be.  Would it be possible to get the liquid from another country? 

Also worth mentioning now, is that we usually have members go cautiously when switching from tablets/pills to liquid.  As you are on a 10 mg dose now......it might be good to get you crossed on over to taking your dose with half liquid and half tablet.  We can help you get started with this.

 

What happens with the medications and then withdrawal:

Brain Remodelling

What is withdrawal syndrome.

The windows and waves pattern of withdrawal

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. And sleep is really important during withdrawal.  Insomnia is no small deal. 

 

18 hours ago, Crt1 said:

Anxiety and headache have improved, but insomnia persists, while I have new side effects, my nose shuts and I feel pain in the sinuses, I feel light-headed, the heartbeat has been reduced a little and I have tinnitus. Even though I do not have anxiety, I do not feel good and I can not work, especially the pain in my sinuses causes sinusitis and I'm sensitive to it.

 

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

You might find many of your symptoms listed there.

Were you having any sinus issues prior to medication/drugs and WD's?

 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.  

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

This is your introduction/journal page where you have now introduced yourself to the community, you can ask questions here regarding your tapering, give updates, and just keep a record of your journey.

 

Again, welcome.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

[Crt1]

manymoretodays thank you very much for the answer and the information.

 

For the stress started meditation, it seems to help a lot.

 

I'm thinking of making my own escitalopram solution in water, I do not know if some of the European countries have it in solution and how could I order it. If I find it available, I will prefer it.
But I can find here 5mg pills.

 

Insomnia is a real problem and started when I started the medication, I was good before. I sleep 4-6 hours and not good.

 

I downloaded the Dr.Glenmullen's list and I will use it.

 

I was easily sinusitis before I started drugs, but now I get rhinitis which closes the sinus and leads to sinusitis. It is a big problem.

 

Omega3 in large doses causes me a headache. In a small dose I accept it well. I will also try magnesium.

 

My first goal is to reduce the dose of the drug to reduce its side effects.

 

The second goal is to stop the drug completely with the fewest possible withdrawals.

 

I am interested in having as much accuracy as possible in the reduction in medication, I am looking to find the best possible way.

 

Thanks again.

[manymoretodays]

 

On 5/21/2019 at 3:12 PM, Crt1 said:

I'm thinking of making my own escitalopram solution in water, I do not know if some of the European countries have it in solution and how could I order it. If I find it available, I will prefer it.
But I can find here 5mg pills.

 

 

Do-it-yourself liquid
People report that they can make their own liquid from Lexapro tablets and water.

It is soluble in water, see http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01175 -- stability (shelf-life of dilution) is unknown.

See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

(extracted from the Lexapro tapering topic)

 

 

Crt1,  Are you taking one 10 mg tablet now or two 5 mg tablets?

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by manymoretodays
none done afterall........

[Crt1]

manymoretodays thank you for the information,

I take 1 pill of 10mg every day.

I can find the 5mg pills at the drugstore if I need it.

I'm going to buy a 50ml graduated measuring cylinder and a 10ml Pipette.

[manymoretodays]

On 5/23/2019 at 7:49 AM, Crt1 said:

manymoretodays thank you for the information,

I take 1 pill of 10mg every day.

I can find the 5mg pills at the drugstore if I need it.

I'm going to buy a 50ml graduated measuring cylinder and a 10ml Pipette.

 

Okay!  This all sounds good.

You could continue to work with the 10 mg pill too. 

Do you have a pill cutter that can accurately cut it in half?  Or even 1/4?

 

If not, the 5 mg pills might be best. 

As to start......you could liquify 1/2 of your dose, and then take the other 1/2 of your dose with the pill.  Then...... begin the 10% reductions with the liquid.

 

Best to cross over too,  from your present 10 mg pill to two 5 mg pills, if you do decide to make this change.  Do this before any liquifying.

 

Usually we suggest:

1/4 new pill and 3/4 old pill  (keep the total dose at 10 mg) and hold here for at least 3 days

1/2 new and 1/2 old  hold again for at least 3 days

3/4 new and 1/4 old  hold again for 3 days

.....then on to your two 5 mg pills completely

 

The reason we do this is that sometimes, different brands, formulations, etc.  can result in some changes in how the drug is absorbed or how it works overall.

 

And for harm reduction purposes, we really like to encourage just one change, in anything at a time.  Easier on the nervous system that way.  And hopefully as much avoidance of symptoms as possible.

 

Anyway.....let me know your thoughts.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by manymoretodays
further clarity

[manymoretodays]

Adding for reference:  How to cut up tablets or pills

[Crt1]

manymoretodays thank you.

I searched and the 5mg pills are from another brand,
my doctor also gives me exclusive 10mg pills.

 

I am thinking of doing the following:
1/4 fluid (1/4 tablet of 10mg + water) + 3/4 of the 10mg pill for 3 days.
2/4 fluid (2/4 tablet of 10mg + water) + 2/4 of the 10mg pill for 3 days.
3/4 fluid (3/4 the 10mg pill + water ) + 1/4 of the 10mg pill for 3 days.

4/4 fluid (10mg pill + water ) for 1-2 weeks

 

10% reduction of fluid (0.9 * liquid (10mg + 40ml water)) = 36ml of fluid for 4-5 weeks.

 

I try to find a liquid change of pills in syrup from a drugstore, so far I have not found.

 

From tests I found that the liquid (10mg pill + water) is well mixed only when you mix it. After a few seconds, enough of the amount of the pill falls to the bottom of the glass.

 

I do not know if this quantity is from the filling of the pill or substance of the drug. And there is no way I know it.

 

I conclude that the shuffling of the liquid (pill + water) is DETERMINANT for the final amount of drug I will drink. So I have to shake the liquid in the same way every time.

 

These are my thoughts until now.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Crt.

 

If you can get your prescription filled with 2 5mg tablets per day, it will be easier for you to taper. You can take one 5mg tablet per day and take the rest in liquid. You could then taper the liquid, until you're down to 5mg.

 

Since you're used to the liquid by then, it may be fairly easy to cross over to taking your daily dose as half a 5mg tablet (2.5mg) and the rest in liquid, then your entire daily dose in liquid.

[manymoretodays]

Thanks Alto.

 

So......Crt1........the 5 mg pills/tablets might be the best option for ease.

 

17 hours ago, Crt1 said:

I am thinking of doing the following:
1/4 fluid (1/4 tablet of 10mg + water) + 3/4 of the 10mg pill for 3 days.
2/4 fluid (2/4 tablet of 10mg + water) + 2/4 of the 10mg pill for 3 days.
3/4 fluid (3/4 the 10mg pill + water ) + 1/4 of the 10mg pill for 3 days.

4/4 fluid (10mg pill + water ) for 1-2 weeks

 

10% reduction of fluid (0.9 * liquid (10mg + 40ml water)) = 36ml of fluid for 4-5 weeks.

 This is looking good ^ .  Your math.  For cross over, and then for your first reduction.  Based on using the 10 mg pills. 

Excellent, I think you've got it!!!

 

17 hours ago, Crt1 said:

From tests I found that the liquid (10mg pill + water) is well mixed only when you mix it. After a few seconds, enough of the amount of the pill falls to the bottom of the glass.

 

I do not know if this quantity is from the filling of the pill or substance of the drug. And there is no way I know it. 

There's a bit more on this in "How to make a liquid......" link.

I liquified for my final taper.  Not Lexapro.  And had a coated pill no less.  It took a little time to dissolve and then I'd have to stir it, as well as check the bottom of my mixing container to make sure that there was no stickage there. 

 

17 hours ago, Crt1 said:

So I have to shake the liquid in the same way every time.

Yes.....once you start making liquid, consistency in your method IS important and should pay off.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Crt1]

Altostrata thank you very much for the answer,

I understand that it is best to use the pill and a small amount of fluid, as I am going to make the dose accurate.

 

From the drugstore, they said that the pills are coated, so they slow down in the intestines, but if they are liquid they will be absorbed more quickly by the stomach, so the effect of the drug may change.

 

They told me to look at it and talk to the drugstore again.

 

However, in a test I made the pill split in the water in a few seconds.

 

A pill has a weight of about 0.100 gr. I think to scale with an accuracy of 0.001gr and remove material from the pill by 10%.

This until I get 5mg and then I get into liquid form. This implies that the substance of the drug is equally distributed in the pill. If this is the case then it can be a good choice.

 

Otherwise I will have to powder it first and mix it up. Then it may be better to put the amount in capsules and then swallow it.

 

manymoretodays thank you, I will probably have to work with the 10mg pills, the doctor does not give me the 5mg.

 

These are my thoughts.

[Crt1]

An update:

A drugstore refuses to make a liquid solution of my medication.

Another drugstore makes a liquid solution of my medication.

A third pharmacy makes a liquid solution only if she uses escitalopram tablets dissolved in the mouth.

He told me that my pills have a coated film and can not make them a liquid solution.

[Crt1]

Another drugstore can make me from the 10mg pills, 9mg capsules.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Crt1,

Good job, you are certainly doing all your homework now........finding out what might be available from the pharmacies/drugstores.

Why won't the doctor let you go with the 5 mg pill/tablet?

I think you'd have a bit more freedom with your taper that way.

 

Sometimes, some of us find......that many doctors don't understand the hows and whys, of our taper plans.  So, that's not unusual, if that's the case.

You can get a prescription from any doctor.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Crt1]

manymoretodays you understand me correctly,

I try to find out what options I have both from pharmacies and from my own. I also read the information in the forum. When I get to somewhere I'll let you know.

 

My doctor does not accept that side effects are due to the drug, he wants to continue doing it for 1 year, and it's hard to find someone who tells me something different. But I want to minimize it to reduce side effects (as I mentioned at the first post). So if I can find pills of 5mg I will have to buy them without a prescription.

[intothewoods]

@Crt1, you might consider an online doctor. One of our members was able to see a doctor and get a prescription that way recently, because our meds are not controlled substances. Many insurances cover online medical clinics. 

[manymoretodays]

20 hours ago, Crt1 said:

manymoretodays you understand me correctly,

I try to find out what options I have both from pharmacies and from my own. I also read the information in the forum. When I get to somewhere I'll let you know.

 

My doctor does not accept that side effects are due to the drug, he wants to continue doing it for 1 year, and it's hard to find someone who tells me something different. But I want to minimize it to reduce side effects (as I mentioned at the first post). So if I can find pills of 5mg I will have to buy them without a prescription.

 

Hi Crt1,

This might be helpful to look over:  How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

[Crt1]

manymoretodays and intothewoods thank you for your answers,

 

Finally, the drugstore informed me that there is no 5mg pill available on the local market, so I have to go on with the 10mg pills.

My doctor prescribes me for them.

 

manymoretodays I read the link, my doctor does not accept the side effects of the drug, much less the reduction method,

I will not inform him at this time, I would probably later inform him.

 

I have order a pill cutter.

[Crt1]

Update

I will go with 10mg, they can cut in the middle with enough accuracy with a knife, they have a groove in the middle,

but to cut them into smaller pieces I need a precision scales.

 

A week now I take it 1/4 dissolved in water and 3/4 in pill.
I have not noticed any impact so far.

 

My question is to rate the dose in 1/2 dissolved in water and 1/2 pill or will it be very much in liquid form?

 

I also noticed that the pill dissolved in the water within 15 seconds, very little time.

 

Also, do you know if these drugs are dropping white blood cell counts? More specifically, citalopram after 3-4 years of use?

 

Thank you.

[Kostas]

Hi, 

While taking citalopram, my white cell count dropped within 2 years, from 5.500 to 3.700!

 

Fortunately after getting off it, they return within a couple of years, to their initial value. 

[Crt1]

Kostas thank you for your answer,

My mother takes 3-4 years of citalopram.

About 1 year ago the white blood cells began to fall constantly.

Now they have reached 3,800 out of 7,000.

I do not know the cause.

Is there any way to see if the cause is citalopram?

[Kostas]

Hi, 

The only way to find out, is if there is the possibility to reduce drastically the dose she is getting for at least six months, and recheck the blood count. 

It had also affected my liver enzymes, which were also restored after being off the drug. 

Even my doctor was hesitant to accept that the drug caused the low WBC count, and was convinced only when he saw the normal count after stopping them. 

Take care

[Crt1]

Kostas thank you for the information,

It will not be easy to drastically reduce the dose, perhaps she can reduce it,

she will do additional tests and we will see how it will go.

[manymoretodays]

On 6/9/2019 at 12:36 AM, Crt1 said:

Update

I will go with 10mg, they can cut in the middle with enough accuracy with a knife, they have a groove in the middle,

but to cut them into smaller pieces I need a precision scales.

 

A week now I take it 1/4 dissolved in water and 3/4 in pill.
I have not noticed any impact so far.

 

My question is to rate the dose in 1/2 dissolved in water and 1/2 pill or will it be very much in liquid form?

 

I also noticed that the pill dissolved in the water within 15 seconds, very little time.

 

Also, do you know if these drugs are dropping white blood cell counts? More specifically, citalopram after 3-4 years of use?

 

Thank you.

 

Hi Crt1,

I think if I were you, I would just continue with the cross over from pill/tablet form to homemade liquid.  Rather than weighing portions and then liquefying portions of your dose.

I think that will make it a whole lot simpler in the long run.

 

So yes.......when you said "or will it be very much liquid form?".........I think that is what you were asking. 

Doing all liquid for your taper should be just fine.

 

You can check online for known and reported adverse effects of drugs here:  Drugs.com 

I usually start there, just type in the name of the drug in the top box.

Pub med is another resource for drug information.

 

I think, that yes, oftentimes many of these drugs, can have side effects, that were not discovered prior to release.  Try a google search too.....citalopram and low white blood cell counts.......might yield more information for you and your Mom.

 

Best Crt1,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Crt1]

 

manymoretodays thank you for your answer,

 

yes, you correctly understood my question
from the present day started 1/2 in water and 1/2 pill.
I will try a precision scales that I have ordered when I receive it,
if I see that it is complicated or inaccurate I will turn the whole pill into a water solution.
I will see how it goes.

 

For the problem of reducing white blood cells, I only found references to citalopram users who believe that it was indeed the cause of lowering blood levels.

 

[Altostrata]

cr, please see

 

[Crt1]

An update on my progress so far.

Eventually I chose to use a precision weighing scale (0.001g) and cut each pill with a knife to the weight I wanted. It's the method that suits me best. Now I've reached 5.5mg out of 10mg I started. The reduction was intended to reduce the side effects of the drug, such as rhinitis and insomnia.

 

The question is, do the side effects decrease in proportion to the reduction in grams of substance?

So far I have seen an improvement but not spectacular.

The side effects still persist even if the dose of the drug is small?

 

 

It's important to me because rhinitis due to my sensitivity ends up causing me to have sinusitis.

 

On the other hand, rhinitis and insomnia can re-emerge as symptoms of withdrawal. So far I have been using the 10% reduction rule and have not seen any signs of withdrawal.

But I feel more vulnerable to stressful situations.

 

I also have a problem with choledochal cyst so I stopped taking omega 3 and my diet is limited to several substances such as oil.

 

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Crt1 said:

 

The question is, do the side effects decrease in proportion to the reduction in grams of substance?

Generally, side effects lessen as the dosage lessens.