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TurkeyCold

TurkeyCold: part time hell after Cymbalta cold turkey

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TurkeyCold

Hey there,

 

I've been following topics on this website and it's German equivalent (adfd.org) for quite a while as a silent observer and the knowledge I gained here and there helped me tremendously. Otherwise, I would be caught deeply in the psychiatric mill these days for sure.

 

I am 29 years old/male from Germany with a long history of depression/dysthymia/melancholia/call it whatsoever. 3 Therapies didn't get to the root and this caused me to give it a try with Duloxetin/Cymbalta in autumn 2015. The psychiatric support I had since then was lousy due to lacking knowledge and ended up in a first CT in April 2016 with 1 week of disease: brain zaps, flu, nausea, headache and so on. After then: Everything fine for a while until a mental breakdown came 4 months later and of course I reinstated the former full dose of Cymbalta. The 2 cold turkeys after were rather smooth, at the beginning always accompanied by these thoughts: "Yes, I've made it. No problem for me to get off at all." But the mental breakdown (depression, crying spells, inner emptyness) came months later. Of course I didn't reflect it that way in those years, otherwise I wouldn't have caused so much violence to my system ...

November 2017 was a bit special because I started to experience maniac episodes with huge amounts of energy shooting through my body, and I finally started to sense that sth. was going fairly wrong here. I jumped off for the third time, travelled to India, had a breakdown in February 2018 but no possibility to get a new dose without travelling back to Germany, which I didn't because I am super stubborn sometimes. Instead I rushed through South India (not knowing what was happening) in a constant mode of flight and aggression, flying to Sri Lanka where I was bitten by a street dog (calming me down in a way which was good in these days). I returned to Germany in March 2018. Starting a super stressful job as a vegetarian cook in April I soon feel back into old patterns of depression and emptyness which made me trying out another SNRI (Milnacipran). This went terribly wrong because my CNS didn't tolerate the dose and a suicidal sword of thoughts caused me insomnia, terror and endless pain for weeks. I decided: No more substances. And then, after weeks, I discovered this website and adfd.org and understood what I had done all the time...

 

About one year is over since my last dose of poison and I can assure you that I have suffered enormously. The first 4 months were a pure mental hell and I even failed to kill myself in a friends flat. The only physical effect I felt was a huge urge to eat carbohydrates and sugar, in high times I consumed 5 bars of chocolate which is about 500 gram. I was disgusted by myself day by day by day unable to change anything because the body chemistry was so unbalanced. Month 5 and 6 I experienced as maniac windows, exhausting myself, doing too much, working too much as a driver, thinking I was all through. I wasn't. In November 2018 mental clarity slowly came back, brain fog faded more and more but therefore physical problems started:

 

Skin rash all over my back
Whole body pain emanating from my brain

Strong headache

After waking up a feeling of being overrun by a truck

Chronique Fatigue

Restlessness

Physical tension

Phases of cognitive shutdown

 

Of course, there are many more symptoms in this process of healing that come and go.

 

What helped me:

Acceptance

Acceptance

Acceptance

Forgiveness

Knowledge

Knowledge

Knowledge

Self-love

Loving others

Hope

 

These days I am living alone after living in a flat-share became too exhausting for me, most of my social contacts have broken up and I'm fine with that. It's better this way as long I am healing. The people which helped me most are ironically people who don't know me, here a list:

 

Alan Watts (I've listened to almost any of his talks on Youtube. Just brilliant ...)

Sadghuru (Same is valid for him)

Eckhart Tolle from time to time (he can be a bit exhausting)

Friedrich Nietzsche

Franz Kafka ("You are the task, no pupil far and wide")

Eric Fromm

Jiddu Krishnamurti

Terence McKenna (The self-empowering talks, less the drug and mushroom stuff)

Jack Kornfield

Mike Hellwig (German therapist who advocates the principle of Radical Allowance)

Jens Böttcher (German musician singing about love and peace)

Simone Weil

Tony Robbins in a certain way

Jordan Peterson as a negative and desperate role model

 

I only know one person in my surroundings who has gone through comparable suffering. He is a good friend and I talk to him from time to time. Fortunately, I have caring and loving parents. I did not always think that way about them, but they are a real gift.

 

These days I am waving between inner peace, physical pain, enormous aggression, deep depression with suicidal thoughts and universal love. It's paradox. Nonetheless my general condition has improved a lot. When I'm not bedridden, I go swimming or do Yoga. Jogging is too intense for me most of time. Long walks in nature are a must. My diet has become super healthy and nutritious. I would consider it as a mixed approach with knowledge from the fields of whole-food-nutrition, Ayurveda and clean eating. I eat mostly vegan, some eggs and a bit fish every week. No milk and meat, no processed food, no industrial sugar. Since Sunday I am completely unemployed, until then I worked here and there but my CNS has clearly shown me that he doesn't want to be exposed to any form of stress at the moment.

 

And the biggest insight on this journey: I have caused it, I will make it through. No one to blame, not even myself.

 

 

Yours, C.

 

 

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Songbird

Hello TurkeyCold, welcome to SA.  I'm sorry you didn't find us in time to do a slow taper, but it sounds like you have been doing brilliantly with non-drug coping techniques and adopting a healthy diet and lifestyle.

 

We ask all members to create a signature containing a summary of med history, including all drugs, doses and dates (starting and stopping).  Your signature appears below every post you make, and allows us see your situation easily without having to read through your topic every time.   You could look at my signature for an example.  Instructions for creating your signature are here: Please put your withdrawal history in your signature.  You can edit your signature here: edit your signature in Account Settings.

 

How long were you taking the milnacipran?  It sounds like you experienced an adverse reaction to it.  These reactions can produce symptoms very similar to withdrawal.  It's good to hear you have had some improvement in the past year.  I'm wishing you continued healing.

 

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TurkeyCold

Hello Songbird,

 

thanks for approving my first post and your response. I am a bit confused since I created a signature according to the guidelines, maybe it's not visible? I took Milnacipran for 3 weeks and it's definitely been an adverse reaction I experience(d) that made a lot of things a lot worse than before. 4 CTs were just enough for my CNS and I totally understand this.

 

I have to fight a lot again these days, especially the food cravings have come back and although I manage to stay away from white sugar I did binge-eating twice these days with dried fruits, nuts, noodles and other stuff from my kitchen. Especially the night and the next morning is really bad then usually since I feel completely hung over 😥

 

C.

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Songbird

Thanks for creating a signature, sorry I don't know why I didn't see it before, but I can now.  I'm very impressed with all the things you've done for yourself to help your recovery.  It's good to hear of your improvements.

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TurkeyCold

Thanks again for appreciating! 😉

 

At least two really important persons I forgot to mention in my initial post: Gabor Maté and his talks about trauma and addiction (made me understand why I fought with alcohol, cigarettes, Mariuhana, internet and porn addiction for many, many years) and Haruki Murakami (His amazing novels helped me through my darkest hours - those where I was capable of reading - to escape this world and its inherent nightmare, unfortunately, I have read nearly everything written by him by this time.

 

Today I want to talk about food. As of yet I cannot tell a success story but I'm convinced that I can give lots of hints and advice regarding a healing diet. My principles were these: Question everything you did so far, try things, everything matters (even if it's only a tiny bit). And although these things worked for me, I don't regard them as absolute truths since every organism is different, reacts differently.

 

  • Go whole grain: Although whole grain contains more anti-nutrients than refined grain/flour this disadvantage is in my opinion outweighed by the fact that you consume roughage (find a level your gut can tolerate for the moment and increase slowly), more iron, zinc, vitamin B1 and B2, folate and magnesium compared to refined flour.
  1. Packed oatmeal isn't fully whole grain anymore because it gets heated (always!) for preservation. While heating many fatty acids get destroyed, those which would cause the oatmeal to become rancid pretty quickly. If you eat oats in the morning or another time of the day you should think of acquiring a flaker to produce your own (oat)meal. The difference in taste is enormous. In the long run you save packaging and a good flaker should last many years if you invest some money and treat it well. Since I changed to whole grain step by step my cravings for sugar and carbohydrates in general have reduced a lot compared to last summer where it was horrendous. After having squeezed the grain make sure to soak the grain in water for a while because in that time phytic acid gets reduced. Fresh oats are a bit special because they contain more fat than other grain (7%) so don't make them soak for too long. And go into variety and try other grain, e.g. wheat or spelt, as well. 
  2. When buying sourdough bread make sure it's a good and not industrial one, since the industry ferments the dough only for a short time and all the health benefits you usually had are gone. Which would be: good digestibility and probiotics. Many people have problems with industrial "sourdough" breads because many additional ingredients are used and the lactic acid bacteria don't get enough time to work. If you grind your own flour, even better! Yeast bread is easy for the beginning, you can experiment with sourdough and Indian cuisine offers options as well. I often make simple Roti with wheat or spelt and they come off quite well now.
  3. Brown Rice is a bit difficult because there have been reports about traces of arsenic. I eat it from time to time washing it thoroughly before and soaking it for a while before cooking gently. Not the food to eat daily as a Western person in my opinion since it is import food. The nearest we can get here in Germany is rice from Italy.
  • Make sure you eat probitiocs, your gut will give thanks.
  1. This point is rather new for me but I am convinced that this may help your system as well. The traditional way to consume probiotics was to eat certain milk products, most established is yoghurt of course, but cheese and kefir contain lactic acid bacteria as well. Unfortunately, I react badly to caseine since my youth - this took me really long time to figure out - so milk products are not an option for me. Fortunately, there are tons of options these days so you can choose from a big variety of fermented food: miso, sauerkraut (make sure it's not been industrially heated, otherwise there's not a single lactic acid bacteria in it), fermented juices (my favourite is carot juice), kombucha, tempeh and cider vinegar. By the way it's pretty easy to produce your own fermented vegetables. You just need a canning jar that doesn't close its lid too tight. Then you shred the vegetable you like - starting with a cale, carrot mix is easy, fermenting tomatoes and other stuff is possible as well. Squeeze out the juice, mix with salt (20 gram of salt go for 1 kg of vegetables) and cram it firmly into the canning jar. Everything should be covered with liquid because it could mould otherwise. Keep it in a dark place and move it to the fridge or cellar after 7 days. After 14 days total the fermentation should be finished. You can keep the jar in your fridge for months, even if you opened and started eating from it.
  • Go nuts but don't go crazy:
  1. My "diet" contains almost any kind of nuts and seeds available except cashews, pine nuts and pistachios. For these import distances are really far from Europe. The benefits of seeds and nuts are enormous. They contain huge amounts of non-saturated fatty acids (those your body is not able to produce on its own), iron, magnesium and B-vitamins which are central when it comes to energy metabolism and cognitive processes. I eat a mix of fresh nuts which I soak in salt water over night do decrease anti-nutrients, roasted nuts and different types of seed/nut butter. Flax seed, hemp seed, chia and poppy seeds freshly squished are added as well. They contain huge amounts of protein and ALA which is the plant omega-3 acid. It's not converted as good as the other two types of omega-3 (DHA and EPA) but the effect should still a positive one offering your system some variety. Furthermore these seeds have digestive effects, start with low doses and find an appropriate level. I like them squished in my porridge. To be honest I don't know how important selenium is to our body but I eat two Brazil nuts every day which should saturate the need for this dietary mineral.
  • Eat as fresh as possible, eat organic, eat some raw food:
  1. The first point was definitely inspired by Ayurveda where it's said that the quality of food decreases rapidly after it's cooked. They recommend to eat cooked food maximum one day after its preparation. And if you got the time, why not cooking a fresh meal every day if this may shorten the process of healing.
  2. Since we live in times where the deprivation of soil has sadly reached an unhealthy level you should think about switching from conventionally grown and produced food to organic food. Even if you don't share any ethical implications or whatsoever just think about that: For healing itself your body needs a decent amount of nutrients, since the soil of the industry becomes poorer and poorer it's not guaranteed that products grown on that soil contain these nutrients anymore. Your inner buffet becomes meager and that's not what you want. Even if you're miserable you want your body to have all the building material to rebuild it's old structure. And a lot of material is needed, that's for sure. The same is valid for indirect plant products like eggs, milk, meat and fish. Just consider what these beings eat that you finally eat. Poor food or nutritious food?
  3. For a few weeks I got stuck on the idea that going on a raw food diet must be it. Feeling cold and dissatisfied after a while I quit that experiment and mixed approaches again, trying to have some raw ingredients in every meal (often a salad, raw seeds or nuts, something fermented). Raw food challenges the digestive system in a positive way if you don't exaggerate and delivers other nutrients than their cooked equivalents. A good example is the carrot: uncooked it contains more vitamins but when you cook it beta-carotene (and its antioxidant effect) are better available for your body.

There is some more I can talk about: Sprouts and micro greens, sugar replacement, herbs and more. I hope you like that stuff, guys ...

 

C.

 

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TurkeyCold
  • Eat green. And I literally mean green:
  1. Studies have shown that the consumption of greens, i.e. chlorophyll and its resemblance with hamoglobin, has positive effects on cleaning the blood and the development of new blood cells. I don't have to explain how important a decent quality of your blood flow is when it comes to the time it takes to rebuild your inner system. You want proper and fast streets not mogul slopes with holes in it. I developed cravings for broccoli the last few weeks and I love to follow these cravings since they have a reason often enough. Try to get reconnected to your gut (feeling).
  2. I started to produce my own sprouts. Radishes work well and are most beautiful to look at, a rather mild option is alfalfa. Mung beans are also pretty easy to start with, additionally I sometimes use brown lentils. There is lots of guidance on the internet. Rather new for me is growing micro greens. I use simply plates, cover them with some potting compost and spread the seeds - usually cress, broccoli, arugula and red clover, there are many more to try. Cover them for the first 24 hours and then let them free and make sure they are moist and warm enough and get some sun. They are amazing to sprinkle them over curries, supps, stews or as a topping on a slice of bread or in/as a salad.
  • Use proper cooking tools, try cast iron:
  1. Step by step I have been exchanging my cooking equipment to cast iron because of its durability and because of the small extra portion of iron that it releases every time when heating, cooking, frying something. This is especially interesting for people who don't eat meat and want to make sure - beside other measures - that they ingest sufficient amounts of iron. According to my blood tests the in last 2 years I was on the low edge of B12 and iron so this makes perfect sense for me. Even my family doctor advised me to give cast iron a try besides supplementing a fair amount. If you are a passionate meat eater this shouldn't be a big issue for you.
  • Use spices and herbs:
  1. This may sound rather trivial but you might give it a try using more spices than the old salt, pepper, paprika combination. Spices have many benefits for your whole system, a classical example is the calming effect of cumin on your digestion. Since I had times where I struggled with constipation or flatulence I have become a big fan of jeera when cooking indian dishes. Another good option are anise-fennel-cumin teas that I drink one or two hours after a meal. I don't want to write too much about curcuma (in combination with some freshly ground black pepper) and cinnamon since their benefits should be common sense meanwhile. Other spices I use are: nutmeg, cilantro, mustard seeds, small doses of chili, kala namak and so forth. Also think about investing some more money for a decent salt. I recently found out that the brine salt I used is industrially cleaned and that way deprived of its calcium, magnesium and other minerals. Even if the difference appears to be marginal, why using a deprived product that "enriched" with anticaking agents on top?
  2. Herbs are amazing. I have become a fan of using decent amounts of parsley, koriander and basil in my diet. They contain iron and huge amounts of vitamins. Furthermore, they add nice freshness to your dishes. If you're fancy you can make pestos, sauces or chutneys with them. Some herbs I grow on my own in my small apartment and it's nice to take care of them. The rest I buy here and there. In spring I had a phase where I used edible wild herbs like dandelion, garlic mustard, chickweed and stinging nettle. Wild herbs exceed their cultivated equivalents by far in nutrients so you can give them a try if you have access to a place where they grow cleanly.
  • Treat water with reverence:
  1. This point is rather esoteric and goes back to the following video. In a way his point makes perfect sense for me that water is the most important factor in your system simply because of it's sheer proportion. Here in Germany we have excellent tap water that often exceeds the quality of bottled waters. On top of that I have bought a nice clay jug where I store some water to make tea or cook food with. Just by doing that my appreciation for water has increased and I'm sometimes glad "how it waits there for me". Remind yourself: Having clear and unpoisened water is a privilege many, many people have no access to. Before that I always unconsciously hit the tap and took for guaranteed what came out of it.
  • Establish (hygienic) rituals:
  1. I started to do oil pulling every morning. After 15 to 20 minutes  I use a tongue scraper and brush my teeth with a tooth paste without fluoride. In the evening I use dental floss.
  2. Find out when it's appropriate for you to drink. According to Ayurveda it's recommended to stop drinking some time before, around and after a meal since you don't want to dilute your digestive juice too much. This might be helpful for people having issues with their digestion like me. Furthermore, they recommend to avoid super cold drinks, especially when eating. Eating french fries with an ice cold Coca Cola might sound seductive for some of you but might not be helpful with your well being in the long run.
  3. If you have not already done that: Invest some money into a decent mattress. Sleeping on a comfortable mattress can improve the quality of your sleep significantly, and I don't have to emphasize the importance of enough and good sleep in a process of cognitive healing. Some of you have big issues with their sleep and I feel really sorry for them. I have/had times with sh*tty sleep but for the most time it's okay and I am really glad for that ... I have become a big fan of my futon which is placed on two tatamis (rice mats). The grounded sleep I get from that gives me lots of comfort.
  4. Every morning and evening I try to do some stretching in my bed before or after sleeping. Often enough my body is full of painfull stiffness, but whenever I feel comfortable I do it.

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ChessieCat
19 hours ago, TurkeyCold said:

I am a bit confused since I created a signature according to the guidelines, maybe it's not visible?

 

Hi turkeycold, and welcome from me too.

 

When we first join as a member we complete a drug history, which is only visible to admin.  The drug signature is a different thing and it appears below every post you make so that we can see your drug history at a glance.

 

I got confused by it when I first joined.😊

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TurkeyCold

If you have the intention to renew yourself, do it daily. (Konfuzius)

 

Food cravings have gone for the moment and I am really thankful for that since they disconnect me from my essence and wellbeing fiercely. Nonetheless, no day/night without a symptom so I have pretty tight hamstrings since 2 days. I will buy a fascia roll today and give it a try. It should give me some release at least if I work on the tight muscles gently.

 

Another author I want to recommend is Prentice Mulford. Time of his life he was kind of an outlier in society and in the literary world but I found his writings to be refreshing and off the usual track of thinking through reality. Unfortunately, his main work "Unfug des Lebens und des Sterbens" (which would be something like "Mischief of living and dying" in English) is only available in German as far I can see but there other options you have, e.g. "The god in you", "Thoughts are things" and "Your forces and How to use them".

 

Furthermore, I wanna recommend the podcast www.oneyoufeed.net. About one year ago I listened to that podcast extensively since they cover significant issues for me: walking the path of healing, what is addiction?, spirituality, personal growth and change among others. Eric Zimmer, the speaker, says about himself: "At the age of 24, I was homeless, addicted to heroin and facing long jail sentences. In the years since I have found a way to recover from addiction and build a life worth living for myself." Fittingly the title of their newest podcast (284) is "Donna Hylton on Healing and Hope".

 

A further measure I adopted on my path:

 

Go into the dirt and arrange your things:

 

Long ago we have been children ourselves who loved to play in the dirt, jumped into wet spots with big joy and collected snails and insects in the sandbox. Children love to do that, adults usually don't. We don't, so over the years there is a literal and imaginary heap of dirt growing in our lifes that we don't manage to cope with, let it be concrete things like furniture, trinkets, rather "dead" friendships with people we don't share anything with (anymore) or abstract things like memories, opinions, fears and worries. We usually avoid that dirt, suppress it and try to cover or compensate. But there is no place called "away" on this planet so that dirt will come back to you sooner or later and disturb you in many ways. And at some point our life itself becomes a mess.

There is a great message and it may sound dreamy: Your dirt is your gold. Rainer Maria Rilke, a German poet, said something that goes into the same direction: "Fears are the dragons which guard our biggest treasures." So what did people to obtain their gold in the past? They dug, they washed, they sifted. And that's what you should see it like.

So I went into the dirt. Literally, by sorting out things from my tiny household. I sold them, I gave them as a present, I littered them. Whatever appeared useless and/or wasn't used for years became a suspect and I haven't missed a thing so far. Clearing up in the outer world clarifies things in your inner world, that's for sure, and inner clarity is something we really need these days, not only with a bombed brain in withdrawal. Simultaneously, the rather imaginary dirt began to clear up and I began to see this world and the people around me more clearly. Many, many opinions and conclusions I had about my life and my environment turned out to be strong negative projections that came from my inner world. If your inner life is a mess the outer world is a mess for sure. I don't think that we can completely live without projections but when I get the choice I'd rather live with peaceful, joyful and clear projections than the ones I lived with. In this context a friend of mine mentioned Marie Kondō a few months ago. I wasn't familiar with her before but some of her principles of order go into the same direction of implicit thoughts that I had while rearranging things in my life: every thing its place, what's used can stay, and so on. Of course there are other and older traditions dealing with the arrangement of objects, namely Feng Shui and Sthapatya Veda - rather emphasizing harmony in architecture and existence.

Something very remarkable my second psychiatrist said - it must have been around June after I had omitted the Milnacipran - was: "You seem to be an intelligent person but you need some order." After that she handed me over a prescription for Lamictal/Lamotrigin which is - fun fact - sometimes used in low doses to compensate side effects of antidepressant withdrawal. Of course she didn't know anything about that and did not have that intention. I never took it but here quote remained since that time. So I highly recommend you to go into the dirt, it's worth it. And the good thing about it: We all have more than enough of it 😀

 

C.

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TurkeyCold

You can't choose your pain but you can choose your suffering.

 

Once in a while I get hit by really severe depression. It's not comparable to any of my other states (where I am also often depressed) since this state is even below zero and it was tremendously difficult for me to deal with it in the past but I do much better compared to what I did one year ago. These occasional states have not lost in their intensity, and if I had to make a guess I experienced them about 20-25 times so far.

 

Everything shuts down. Any inner vividness is gone. Completely. My arms get tense, my head becomes enormously heavy. The only thing I want now is: not to be. I can't sleep over it. Doing anything is difficult, doing nothing is even more difficult. It feels like the trap of nothingness and I am in it. Everything out there doesn't touch me anymore. I am my own cosmos of nothingness. I Will always be there.

 

That's in a way how I feel and think in those phases and if I had to choose which of my symptoms is the most difficult one to deal with, it's this I think although the physical consumption comes close behind. Yesterday I had a really long phase of nothingness, it must have taken 10-12 hours which is exceptional long for me. I made it through "well", developing some kind of inner script (1. Accept where you are 2. Deep pain means deep healing 3. Classify the phase, it's not been like that for the rest of the week, it will not be like that forever 4. The evening will be better) and going into the spirit of this dark feeling. The evening got better indeed and I managed to do some yoga, extremely slow and difficult to stay in it, but I felt that shifting inner pain to outer pain (by stretching) helps me sometimes. Afterwards I appreciated myself by preparing a delicious dinner including brown rice, salad, different sauces, leftover curry and a salmon steak. I try to enjoy myself under any circumstance and things get better and better while healing goes on.

 

C.

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Gridley
9 hours ago, TurkeyCold said:

developing some kind of inner script

 

Sounds like you've developed some very good coping skills, TC.  

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TurkeyCold
13 hours ago, Gridley said:

 

Sounds like you've developed some very good coping skills, TC.  

 

Yes indeed, Gridley, it seems to be the case. I guess it's due to the fact that I have "been there so many times before" - so there's some know-how I collected - and additionally it's empowering that my symptoms in general alleviate slowly so I get time to breathe in between the really bad phases. But I don't want to sound too optimistic since I don't know what's still going to come ...

 

C.

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TurkeyCold

I experience a huge window since last my personal doom day last Friday which makes me really happy and grateful. It is as if something in my brain clicked into place decently and I feel my power tripled compared to the time since December. I also realised with how much physical pain and lack of confidence in my body I lived for the past 6-7 months, when physical symptoms got really strong, and also before of course. On the other hand my brain is still (or again) a bit maniac but I feel much more grounded compared to the two maniac episodes I experienced so far. I feel as if a had the freedom to choose my actions rather than being driven by them the whole time. Also I do write a lot of aphorisms, and to be honest I have never written that much in my life before. I always felt the urge to do that but it was as if a well inside me was blocked.

 

Another experiment I do these days is doing more and more things with my weaker and more imprecise left hand. I've done that in the past already brushing my teeth once a day with my left hand - and it works pretty well now - but the last few weeks I intensified my efforts and it's real fun to see that I make progress. In a way it is as if I discover a second personality in my body that was hidden and could not be expressed for so long. So I eat food with my left hand, do toilet stuff that way, and the most difficult thing for me: I practice to write with my left hand regularly. I always avoided that because it feels uncomfortable - and it still does - but here I also make progress. Furthermore, I see it as a part of healing and challenging my brain in a beautiful way to build new structures. And why shouldn't I use the gift of having a lot of time at the moment to learn sth. new.

 

C.

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RichT

Glad to hear you’re feeling good! 

 

Warmest wishes,

 

Rich

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TurkeyCold

Part time hell is going on again. My physical symptoms are diminishing more and more - strong headaches and fatigue remain these days - but much more significant is the fact that 5 of the last 11 days were doom days like I didn't experience them for a long time. It's really difficult these days to stay with it since I seem to have lost any bearable state in between. In retrospect the positive days still have a strong maniac touch and I am clueless how this may go on. I feel that I'm in the heart of the storm now and I don't know how much longer I can deal with the mental pain it causes and the energy it takes from my soul. The maniac phases also do not give me the necessary relief and I deal a lot with suicide these days again. In my environment there is nobody left whom talking to would help me a lot. My parents always have an ear open for me but of course they can't help me. My friend who went through a long process of suffering as well is no help at the moment because I don't want to hear stuff about his dreamscape where the personal god and his plan waits for all of us. I don't know what to do, it's getting too much ...

 

C.

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TurkeyCold

Since my state has become a lot more shaky again and I don't do well at all I stopped taking supplements today to check if I get triggered by them addiationally. I have the sneaky suspicion that my daily dose of vitamin b12 may be too high ...

 

C.

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TurkeyCold

Not a lot has changed since my last post and I still suffer tremendously, but an utterance from a German withdrawal thread got me out of my emotional spiral these days because I felt and feel the deep truth in it. It's simply (but not simple at all) :

 

"You are not severely sick, you are enormously sensitive like all of us here. And yes, it can take years until it goes by."

 

I think that I arranged a lot in my life to deal with my sensitivity but I am still struggling with food and nutrition because old truths (" eat as nutritious as possible") and fear ("otherwise you get even sicker") still block my mind sometimes.

 

Thus, I have to dive in deeper to find out what triggers my swings and worsens my health state. I started to see an alternative practicioner a few weeks ago to deal with that issue but I kind of lost the track temporarily. Time to get back to track.

 

Healing and best wishes for all of you... 

 

C. 

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FarmGirlWorks

Just read thru some of your earlier posts about food, @TurkeyCold. Great tips and “go green” is a good reminder — just had kale onions beets. 

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India
On 6/13/2019 at 5:02 AM, TurkeyCold said:

If you have the intention to renew yourself, do it daily. (Konfuzius)

 

Food cravings have gone for the moment and I am really thankful for that since they disconnect me from my essence and wellbeing fiercely. Nonetheless, no day/night without a symptom so I have pretty tight hamstrings since 2 days. I will buy a fascia roll today and give it a try. It should give me some release at least if I work on the tight muscles gently.

 

Another author I want to recommend is Prentice Mulford. Time of his life he was kind of an outlier in society and in the literary world but I found his writings to be refreshing and off the usual track of thinking through reality. Unfortunately, his main work "Unfug des Lebens und des Sterbens" (which would be something like "Mischief of living and dying" in English) is only available in German as far I can see but there other options you have, e.g. "The god in you", "Thoughts are things" and "Your forces and How to use them".

 

Furthermore, I wanna recommend the podcast www.oneyoufeed.net. About one year ago I listened to that podcast extensively since they cover significant issues for me: walking the path of healing, what is addiction?, spirituality, personal growth and change among others. Eric Zimmer, the speaker, says about himself: "At the age of 24, I was homeless, addicted to heroin and facing long jail sentences. In the years since I have found a way to recover from addiction and build a life worth living for myself." Fittingly the title of their newest podcast (284) is "Donna Hylton on Healing and Hope".

 

A further measure I adopted on my path:

 

Go into the dirt and arrange your things:

 

Long ago we have been children ourselves who loved to play in the dirt, jumped into wet spots with big joy and collected snails and insects in the sandbox. Children love to do that, adults usually don't. We don't, so over the years there is a literal and imaginary heap of dirt growing in our lifes that we don't manage to cope with, let it be concrete things like furniture, trinkets, rather "dead" friendships with people we don't share anything with (anymore) or abstract things like memories, opinions, fears and worries. We usually avoid that dirt, suppress it and try to cover or compensate. But there is no place called "away" on this planet so that dirt will come back to you sooner or later and disturb you in many ways. And at some point our life itself becomes a mess.

There is a great message and it may sound dreamy: Your dirt is your gold. Rainer Maria Rilke, a German poet, said something that goes into the same direction: "Fears are the dragons which guard our biggest treasures." So what did people to obtain their gold in the past? They dug, they washed, they sifted. And that's what you should see it like.

So I went into the dirt. Literally, by sorting out things from my tiny household. I sold them, I gave them as a present, I littered them. Whatever appeared useless and/or wasn't used for years became a suspect and I haven't missed a thing so far. Clearing up in the outer world clarifies things in your inner world, that's for sure, and inner clarity is something we really need these days, not only with a bombed brain in withdrawal. Simultaneously, the rather imaginary dirt began to clear up and I began to see this world and the people around me more clearly. Many, many opinions and conclusions I had about my life and my environment turned out to be strong negative projections that came from my inner world. If your inner life is a mess the outer world is a mess for sure. I don't think that we can completely live without projections but when I get the choice I'd rather live with peaceful, joyful and clear projections than the ones I lived with. In this context a friend of mine mentioned Marie Kondō a few months ago. I wasn't familiar with her before but some of her principles of order go into the same direction of implicit thoughts that I had while rearranging things in my life: every thing its place, what's used can stay, and so on. Of course there are other and older traditions dealing with the arrangement of objects, namely Feng Shui and Sthapatya Veda - rather emphasizing harmony in architecture and existence.

Something very remarkable my second psychiatrist said - it must have been around June after I had omitted the Milnacipran - was: "You seem to be an intelligent person but you need some order." After that she handed me over a prescription for Lamictal/Lamotrigin which is - fun fact - sometimes used in low doses to compensate side effects of antidepressant withdrawal. Of course she didn't know anything about that and did not have that intention. I never took it but here quote remained since that time. So I highly recommend you to go into the dirt, it's worth it. And the good thing about it: We all have more than enough of it 😀

 

C.

A beautiful post! @intothewoods

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TurkeyCold

Thanks for appreciation! I try to share what I find out on my way and it's even better when people "find something in it" 😉

 

There is this saying: When you hit the ground make sure to pick something up.

 

Oh I still hit the ground so often ...

 

 

Healing wishes to all suffering souls out there 🌥️

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TurkeyCold

Amazing words of wisdom about recovery by the German poet Rainer Maria Rilke (translated by me):

 

"If any of your processes is pathological you have to consider that disease is the means an organism gets rid of the foreign with; you only have to support him being sick, that means to have the whole disease and allowing it to break out because this causes his improvement. In you, dear Mister Kappus, is happening a lot now; you have to be patient like a sick person and confident like a recovering person; since you may be both. And even more: You are the doctor who has to monitor himself. Nonetheless there are many days in every disease the doctor is incapable of doing anything and forced to wait. And this is what you have to do now insofar you are your own doctor.

 

Don't observe yourself too much. Don't jump to conclusions out of what's happening; just let it happen. Otherwise it might happen easily that you blame your past with accusations (in a moral sense) because she lead to everything you face now for sure."

 

(R. M. Rilke in his letters to Franz Xaver Kappus in August 1904)

 

["Wenn etwas von Ihren Vorgängen krankhaft ist, so bedenken Sie doch, daß die Krankheit das Mittel ist, mit dem ein Organismus sich von Fremdem befreit; da muß man ihm nur helfen, krank zu sein, seine ganze Krankheit zu haben und auszubrechen, denn das ist sein Fortschritt. In Ihnen, lieber Herr Kappus, geschieht jetzt so viel; Sie müssen geduldig sein wie ein Kranker und zuversichtlich wie ein Genesender; denn vielleicht sind Sie beides. Und mehr: Sie sind auch der Arzt, der sich zu überwachen hat. Aber da gibt es in jeder Krankheit viele Tage da der Arzt nichts tun kann als abwarten. Und das ist es, was Sie, soweit Sie Ihr Arzt sind, jetzt vor allem tun müssen.

Beobachten Sie sich nicht zu sehr. Ziehen Sie nicht zu schnelle Schlüsse aus dem, was Ihnen geschieht; lassen Sie es sich einfach geschehen. Sie kommen sonst zu leicht dazu, mit Vorwürfen (das heißt: moralisch) auf Ihre Vergangenheit zu schauen, die natürlich an allem, was Ihnen jetzt begegnet, mitbeteiligt ist."

(R. M. Rilke in seinen Briefen an Franz Xaver Kappus, August 1904)]

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Erell

Beautiful, thank you ❤

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Guilietta

Hallo TurkeyCold,

 

Es gefaellt mir nicht dass du auch von cymbalta CT in Not bist. Leider ich habe auch 'meistens' CT cymbalta (Dec 2018).

 

Ich werde dein Betraege in Futur lesen. Im Moment ich sage nur hello und 'hang in there' 

 

Ich kann ein bischen Deutch. Entschudigen Sie bitte fuer meine Fehler. ;)

 

 

On 10/18/2019 at 3:32 PM, TurkeyCold said:

There is this saying: When you hit the ground make sure to pick something up.

 

Oh I still hit the ground so often ...

 

Very good saying and a way to turn a negative into a positive. Someone told me that through pain and suffering we learn compassion. :)

 

Tschuess,

 

Giuilietta

 

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TurkeyCold

Hallo Guilietta,

 

what a nice surprise to hear some German on this website, rather unexpected for me. Dankeschön! :)

 

I've been following your thread vaguely since I'm especially interested in those who had and have issues with Duloxetin/Cymbalta and I hope you do a bit better than me ... I remember being quite impressed about how precise your initial post was formulated. Precision in language and description is grounded in a precision of thinking (which is a really important factor on the long road to healing in my opinion).

 

I also wish you best for your upcoming change. I'm pretty sure it will go well since you are so aware of the whole process.

 

12 hours ago, Guilietta said:

Very good saying and a way to turn a negative into a positive. Someone told me that through pain and suffering we learn compassion. :)

 

 

I think I got the saying from https://www.oneyoufeed.net/

For two years I had a lot of time now to deal with websites/podcasts like these.

 

Tschüss, tschüss

C.

 

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Guilietta

Hallo CT,

 

Es gefaellt mir sehr - wenn es Moeglichkeit ist - zu sprechen einige deutchen Woerter mit ein Deutcher! Verstehst du? Ich muss mein deutsch Langsprache lernen besser. Wann ich nach Deutschland besuchen, nach 10 or 12 Tagen, mein Kenntnisse bessern.

 

11 hours ago, TurkeyCold said:

I remember being quite impressed about how precise your initial post was formulated. Precision in language and description is grounded in a precision of thinking (which is a really important factor on the long road to healing in my opinion).

 

This is hte kindest thing anyone has said to me in a while . ;) It is hard for me to be precise - but I am very detail oriented. Vielen Danken fuer die kinden Woerter. German is a very precise language and the people as well (as a whole). However, when I look at my German car's engineering it doesn't always make a lot of sense. Hope you don't work for a car maker. :)

 

I will follow you as well.  Cymbalta is one nasty drug to get off of. I have been on many ADs sorry to say - it is a vicious cycle as Alto said somewhere on this site. This drug is the worst ever to get off of. Today was my first day with beads. If you wade and through my thread you can read some of the challenges to count the beads. I'm so grateful for the expertise and time @Gridley and @brassmonkey have put in to helping me.

 

Alle Beste. Eine schoene Abend,

 

Giuilietta

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TurkeyCold

Hey there,

 

it feels like time for an update. Things have gotten much worse in the last few months. Physically I'm at the lowest point of my withdrawal journey and my whole life of course - I have never been as physically disabled as I'm quite a while now. Most of the time constant headaches and a debilitating mix of severe fatigue and whole body pain takes every energy I have and makes me bedridden. I experience total anhedonia, the only things I find some distraction in are eating and Computer games (although I get pretty bored by those by this time). Eating is complicated as well since I react to mostly anything for a while now, I stay with white rice, corn semolina and chicken these days: I don't have to tell you how bothering this can be actually willing to live vegan ... 2-3 times a week I manage to teach some English or German to private pupils for an hours or so but even this gets more and more difficult for me. The whole process I'm in doesn't feel like healing to be honest, it feels like total devastation. The damage I must have caused to my system must be severe and I have done everything to deal with it: clean eating, little stress, enough sleep, no substances at all, trying to stay active. I was willing to fight and bear what happens for a while now but I think it comes to an end with me, this is more than a human can/should bear in one life (and I was never a person tending to complain a lot). In 12 days it's my 30th birthday, what a great day that will be...

 

Sorry for negativity but I don't want to overload my mother with my suffering

C.

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Guilietta

Hallo CT,

 

Es tut mir Leid, Sie haben miserable Zeit gehabt haben. Es klingt, als ob Sie in einer schlechten Welle sind. Sind Sie in einem sehr schlechten Tag heute?  Are things worse today

 

Diese Nachricht ist  zerlegt, weil ich versuche, auf Deutsch und Englisch zu schreiben. Mein Denken ist heute auch neblig. Ich hatte einige Vokabeln zu suchen. Ich brauche Hilfe mit mein Deutsch Langsprache. ;)
 

Es ist kein Problem für ' Negativität. ' Es klingt wie Ihre Mutter ist das Verständnis. Dies ist mehr als die meisten von uns sagen kann. It is no problem for 'negativity.' Here we are all in the same boat per se. What we think is negativity helps others to know that we are not alone.

 

Ich denke, dass viele, vielleicht die meisten von uns versuchen, positiv zu sein. Auch wir sind in verschiedenen Staaten von Elend. Ich lese dass Anderen körperliche und emotionale Symptome haben. Sie sind persistent sind und von Zeit zu Zeit variieren. Wir alle sind sehr muede von Alles.

 
1 hour ago, TurkeyCold said:

The whole process I'm in doesn't feel like healing to be honest, it feels like total devastation. The damage I must have caused to my system must be severe and I have done everything to deal with it

 

Have you had some days where you are partly (or mostly?) normal? Has this changed over time? Has the number of improved days or parts of days increased?  How is your sleep?

 

Dreizig ist sehr jung. I think even though we are doing everything we can - neurotransmitters jsut take time to heal. Being young I think helps to heal.  Im Moment es stink. Big Pharma has a lot to pay for.

 

Dies ist eine weitere stressvolle Zeit des Jahres. Genießt du den Weihnachtsmärkte. Vielleicht Ihre Mutter hat einige Erzgebirge. Wenn ich besser (hoffentlich dieser Nachmittag) stelle ich meine Erzbegirge.

 

Ich muss Geduld zu lernen und mich mit Mitgefühl zu behandeln.  {Patience is a virtue and something I am learning.}

 

Sind Sie ein Muttersprachler oder ein expat? Ihr Englisch ist super.

 

Ich hoff dass du ein gutes Tag hast!

 

Dein Freunde,

Giulietta

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TurkeyCold

Hallo Giulietta,

 

vielen Dank für deine Antwort. Wie geht es dir mittlerweile mit Cymbalta, how does the tapering go? Do you have increased symptoms or is it okay to deal with?

 

With "Erzbegirge" you probably mean the famous wooden handcraft from the German christmas region, the Erzgebirge? We have such things at home, when I was a young boy I loved the german incense smokers.

 

I guess my pattern is 90-95% constant misery with short glimpses of clarity and the absence of pain and anhedonia where I always get reminded why I do all that and don't just leave. It's funny that you asked about windows because yesterday afternoon one started and it's still open. I wish you the same. Die Fenster sind aber auch schwer für mich, weil ich weiß, dass ich wieder in die Hölle zurückgehen muss... We all know it.

 

In the past I could deal with the English language in different contexts (university, philosophy, travelling and tutoring), that's why I enjoy to constantly improve my skills there.

 

I wish you a good day and an even better December

C.

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