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Witsend81

Witsend: desperate for advice

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Witsend81

My heart rate is 84bmp this morning.  It's usually in the 60s when I'm well 😕 

 

I'll keep an eye on it 

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Sassenach

Good morning Wend

 

Sass is fine but you  are not @ your witsend any more, so my turn.

I think Alto,s intention is to prevent the Promazine from acting in the morning asap and delaying the onset of it's effect.

I can honestly tell you she is very knowledgeable and only has your interests in mind.

I also missed the change from her suggested schedule so thank you @manymoretodays I am learning.

One other thing we all know on here is that withdrawal is day by day.

Normally setting yourself a target and achieving it is good but not in withdrawal.

You are creating a stressor when it is not necessary.

Stress is a major issue in WD and can really set you back

So take it day by day, relax and let your body and brain tell you when you are ready.

You are obviously an intelligent, strong willed and confident person and are using those traits well to get you through this.

Have a a great day, raining here.

 

Sass

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Sassenach

Just seen your last post.

Have you Promazine yet today?

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Witsend81

Hi Sass 🙂

 

Yes, I've had 10mg instead of 15mg.  As Alto says and I agree, need to get off this poison asap.

 

I'm planning to go back in work next week - I'll try and get an ECG done (as you have probably gathered, I don't really work in a mill).

 

Raining here too, boooo!

 

Wend

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Witsend81

Monday 8 July

 

Slept until 4.30am.  Struggled to get back to sleep.

6.15am 15mg promazine

8.30am sudden feeling of dread, subsided quickly 

10am On edge/irritable 4/10

12pm 15mg promazine

2pm On edge 2/10

4pm On edge restless 3/10

6pm Felt ok

8pm 20mg promazine

9pm Felt ok

10pm Bed

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Witsend81

Also, the muscle twitching is worrying - promazine is associated with dyskinesia.

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Sassenach

Please stop planning to go back to work, see previous post.

It would certainly be better if you were off Promazine first.

Is anyone at home with you today? Do not answer if you are uncomfortable doing so.

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Witsend81

 

41 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Is anyone at home with you today? Do not answer if you are uncomfortable doing so.

Not all of the day, going out this morn to take mum shopping.  

 

43 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Please stop planning to go back to work, see previous post.

You are right...I'm being impatient.  I suppose I just want everything back to normal.  I'll at least wait and see how the promazine withdrawal goes, and make a decision.

 

Catch you later

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Sassenach

Hi Wend

 

Hope you enjoyed your shopping trip.

Regards promazine, with the latest reduction you are now on 45mgs after a two day pause.

Is that correct?

How have you been feeling throughout the day?

Has your heart rate returned to normal?

 

Sass

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Witsend81

Hello Sass 🙂

 

Yes thank you, had to buy a list of stuff for the boy's first camping trip with cubs 💰💰💰

 

Heart rate has come down to 67bpm, phew!

 

Now down to 45mg promazine.  Not noticed anything out of the ordinary.  A good day all in all. 

 

Hope you've had a good day.

 

Wend 

 

 

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Sassenach

H Wend

 

Great news.

Don't forget to amend your drug signature, really important now in case you need advise during taper.

Are you intending to drop 5mgs every two days now, if so listen to your body and don't set it in stone.

I do not wish to sound pessimistic and the way you are going you can achieve it, but you don't need a target😮, ok broken record.

First camping trip, oh to be a fly on the tent wall.

He will have a great time.

 

Have a good evening

 

 

Sass

 

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Witsend81

Done 😇

 

Well, was planning to drop 5mg a day...see how it goes?

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Sassenach

OK

Only you know how you feel and I don't doubt your determination.

Good luck but will be nagging you every day until zero.

Can't have you crying again😭

Have a great evening

 

Sass

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Altostrata
14 hours ago, Witsend81 said:

Monday 8 July

 

Slept until 4.30am.  Struggled to get back to sleep.

6.15am 15mg promazine

8.30am sudden feeling of dread, subsided quickly 

10am On edge/irritable 4/10

12pm 15mg promazine

2pm On edge 2/10

4pm On edge restless 3/10

6pm Felt ok

8pm 20mg promazine

9pm Felt ok

10pm Bed

 

Please include ALL your drugs in the daily report.

 

I had suggested reducing the morning dose of promazine first to reduce the interaction with the morning sertraline dose.

 

Reducing by 5mg per day from a daily 55mg dosage is a very fast taper, probably too fast. Please read the links we give you.

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Witsend81
On 7/9/2019 at 1:53 AM, Altostrata said:

There may be no painless way to go off it. I would reduce it as quickly as tolerable.

 

Hi Alto

 

I'm confused, I initially proposed to withdraw the promazine by 5mg every four days with which you agreed.  But after noting the potential interaction with sertraline, you suggested the above, hence me cutting down by 5mg a day.  

 

Please could you clarify?

Many thanks 

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Sassenach

Good morning Wend

How is your heart rate?

How are you feeling?

Apart from confused

Get back to you on that in a couple of hours

 

Sass

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Witsend81

Good morning Sass 🙂

 

Not too bad, a few pesky cortisol spikes this morn, last night, but they soon passed.  I can feel my heart beating quite hard, but pulse rate 65bpm.

 

Looking forward to a swim this morning, taking it easy of course.

 

How are you feeling?

Wend

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Sassenach

I have palpitations too♥️

 

Enjoy your swim.

 

Will get some  calrification while you are out

 

Sass

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Witsend81

Tues 9 July 

 

5.30am Slept ok.  Awoke to fast loud heart, few cortisol spikes, muscle twitches and neck stiffness.

 

7am 10mg promazine 

7.30am 50mg sertraline

 

8.30am  Felt a bit hyper, wired 4/10

 

10am  Hyper/wired 4/10

 

10.30am Walk.  Dizzy spells

 

11.30am Spaced out

 

12.30pm 15mg promazine

 

1.30pm Tired

 

4pm Dread wave.  Soon subsided.

 

7pm  Tired but felt ok

 

8pm Low impact 'tone and shape' class.  Shaky!

 

9pm 20mg promazine

 

10pm Bed.  Heart rate 62bpm.  Didn't get to sleep until 11, I guess the late night exercise is to blame, however slept ok.

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Witsend81

Hi Sass

 

I know you like dogs so I've updated my profile picture.  This is Sally, she is a 13 year old collie-cross.  She belongs to my mum and dad.  She is a lovely old lady ❤️

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

Hi Witsend,

On July 2nd, Alto said this:

 

"Each time you take one of your drugs, do you feel better or worse afterwards? We need those daily notes, specifically how you feel before AND after taking a dose of either sertraline or promazine, plus your sleep pattern.

 

How many milligrams promazine are in a milliliter? Please express your dosage in milligrams, not milliliters.

 

About promazine https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/6698/smpc

 

Promazine-sertraline interactions https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/promazine-with-zoloft-1948-0-2057-1348.html?professional=1

 

What did your doctor tell you promazine was supposed to do for you?

 

If, overall, you're feeling better now than 2 weeks ago, please stop panicking about the ups and downs. It make take a while for your nervous system to settle down."

(in addition, posted a couple of links for you)

 

And then here, in answer to your question, about perhaps reducing the dose of promazine every 4 days:

 

On 7/3/2019 at 1:10 PM, Altostrata said:

I suspect the promazine is making you tired. It is also a high-risk drug. Since you're taking 60mg a day (please verify this is so), your taper of 5mg every 4 days sounds reasonable to me. I would eliminate the morning dose first, then work on the afternoon dose. 

 

Be sure to keep daily notes while you're doing this. If you get withdrawal symptoms, you'll have to go lower.

 

I'm a bit worried about your decreasing every day myself, and then making different choices, along the way.  Which is something that gets a little frustrating for me.  On the promazine though......I think if I were you, I'd sure keep going with that taper and right on down to elimination.  What a stupid drug to use for WD.  And then, of course I agree with Alto, getting rid of the am dose first, sounds like a great idea to me......due to the nature of your medication interactions.

 

Consistency can really pay off here.......with your approach to doing a more rapid reduction of the promazine, than that which we usually recommend.  You have not been on it long and that's great, that's in your favor I think. 

You will need to deal with WD though.  And  symptoms of WD.  And keep in mind some of the changes and choices(some made for you apparently by your doctor?) you've done in the fairly recent past.  A lot of changes for a nervous system already compromised.

 

So.....there are promazine specific links for you to review, as well as some posted somewhere back on page one, for you, with general information around WD.

I did not see this one so am including it here:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage? 

And:

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.

 

Okay, I hope that helps your understanding a bit more.  Are you getting in some gentle exercise everyday and able to keep to some kind of schedule now?  Work is not always a bad idea, while in WD, many do benefit from continuing on working and with their usual routines, as much as possible. 

You might, just post the dailies, every couple of days now, all in one post.  Perhaps even rate your symptoms on a 1-10 scale too.  Good that sleep is going okay too!  I mean in general, it looks like you are getting some good stretches of it at night.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
spelling

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manymoretodays

Oh, Witsend......I'm just seeing more in your notes/dailies now and you ARE trying to keep to some regular things.  And rating too!!  My mistake.  Sorry for the repetitiveness.

Exercise....Do more, do less......what worked for you?

Non-drug techniques to cope

indexed list in the ^, first post.  You might start with some of the meditation and mindfulness stuff for the Hyper/wired that you report.

Just do your best.  None of this lasts forever.  It can sure seem like that though, at the times that you are in it.

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Witsend81

Thank you Manymore 

 

I'm still a little confused regarding the promazine.  I was very concerned when Alto mentioned the potential cardiac interaction with sertraline and took her advice to wean of as quickly as tolerable.

 

This maybe too fast in theory, however I'm being vigilant for withdrawal that isn't tolerable.  You may notice that I hold the dose if I think this is happening.

 

Re exercise.  I went swimming this morning and had so much more energy than this time last week.  My plan is to increase exercise tolerance gradually.

 

Meditation is a great idea, and yoga.

 

Many thanks for your input.

 

Wend

 

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Sassenach

Hi Wend

 

I understand your confusion but the senior mods work so hard on here  with ever increasing demand.

They do not have time to read back through every thread which is why the diary and symptom notes are so important.

The multi-layer experience down to the newbies like me means that the best advice gets through.

I think Alto's concern was that you had accelerated a normal taper four fold and maybe the middle ground would have been better.

I accept you are emminently sensible and have been compliant with advice.

You seem to have had a better day today which is good.

As MMT said please continue with the daily notes, they are important for you to look back on, as well as for us.

Now to the important stuff, Sally is super and very much a beardie, so what is she crossed with?

More to the point Beardies are lovable nuts, has she finally calmed down at 13?

Have a good evening.

 

Sass

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Witsend81
18 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Now to the important stuff, Sally is super and very much a beardie, so what is she crossed with?

Hi Sass.  That's a bit of a mystery as she is a rescue.  I have no idea, she's very unique.

 

20 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

More to the point Beardies are lovable nuts, has she finally calmed down at 13?

She still has her mad half hour! Running around the house like a lunatic.  People don't believe us when we tell them how old she is.

 

I know you guys work hard, I appreciate that.  I'm going to stick with today's promazine dose tomorrow, just to be on the safe side.  

 

Best wishes and have a lovely evening.

 

Wend

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Sassenach

Good decision

 

Good night.

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manymoretodays

Heyo,

My "am" means morning, Witsend.  If that's what is confusing for you now.

By getting off the morning dose first, of promazine, it's possible that we can continue to avoid interactions with that and your sertraline.

 

It's hard to know, for sure, which are interactions, and then which are WD symptoms. 

I'm referring to your heart rate changes and dizziness mainly.

 

I'd rather err on the side of caution though. 

And agree that you might consider eliminating the morning dose of promazine, BEFORE making changes to the other doses of that.   With some tapering.

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Witsend81

Thanks Manymore.  

 

Peace, love, healing and growth to you too!

 

Night night 

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Altostrata
6 hours ago, Witsend81 said:

This maybe too fast in theory, however I'm being vigilant for withdrawal that isn't tolerable.  You may notice that I hold the dose if I think this is happening.

 

Re exercise.  I went swimming this morning and had so much more energy than this time last week.  My plan is to increase exercise tolerance gradually.

 

 

This sounds good. I think you are in a bit of a pickle and going off the promazine with all deliberate speed is the right path, if you are attentive and managing it.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

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Sassenach

Hi Wend

 

How are you feeling today?

I hope the energy level has stayed with you.

To clarify please continue the daily notes while you are tapering the Promazine.

It provides a second line of defense.

How old was Sally when your parents rescued her?

 

Sass

 

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Witsend81

Hello Sass

 

She was only a puppy, weaned off her mum too early and had terrible stomach problems at first.  The RSPCA shut down the pet shop she was found in.  

 

I'm feeling ok, in fact had the best nights sleep in a long time last night.  I didn't wake up once!  Maybe it was the swimming.

 

I'll post two days diaries tomorrow morn...promazine withdrawal going well 🤞

 

Enjoy your evening

 

Wend

 

 

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Sassenach

Thanks Wend.

 

You are doing great, congrats on determination and common sense.

 

Hope you sleep as well tonight.

 

Sass

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Sassenach

Good morning Wend

How is your heart rate?

How are you feeling?

Sass

 

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Witsend81

Morning 🙂

 

Just lying in bed.  Had lots of nightmares last night; feeling like they actually happened!  

 

Heart rate seems ok, ok otherwise.  Yesterday was ok.

 

Off to docs today for a review...

 

I'll keep you posted and get those notes on here.

 

Wend

 

 

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Sassenach

Sorry to hear that.

Not what you needed when you are going to the doctor's but you are in charge.

Take it calm take it slow this morning only do taper if you are very sure.

Don't let doc change anything.

Sass

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Witsend81

I think the nightmares were partly because I watched a documentary about the new variant CJD scandal on the BBC last night, I'm I child of the 80s and remember it well.  Very interesting, but very scary.  I really shouldn't watch stuff like that, especially at the moment.

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