MissyE: tapering from venlafaxine/Effexor

[MissyE]

Thank you @Sassenach @Altostrata

I hope today is going ok for you.

 

I'm reducing to half cetirizine  (5mg) for 2 weeks then stop, unless you suggest otherwise.

 

I'm also on pulmicort for asthma so I've added it to the interactions.

Nothing interesting noted.

 

1 minor drug

1 moderate food.

Minor

vitamin E  budesonide

Applies to: vitamin e, Pulmicort Turbuhaler (budesonide)

Theoretically, agents that are thought to have immunostimulant properties such as echinacea, vitamin E, cat's claw, and zinc may antagonize the pharmacologic effects of immunosuppressants. However, clinical cases of drug interactions have not been reported.

References

1. Pepping J "Echinacea." Am J Health Syst Pharm 56 (1999): 121-2
2. Therapeutic Research Faculty "Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database. Available from: URL: http://www.naturaldatabase.com." ([1995-2008...]):
3. Miller LG "Herbal medicinals: selected clinical considerations focusing on known or potential drug-herb interactions." Arch Intern Med 158 (1998): 2200-11
4. Izzo AA, Ernst E "Interactions between herbal medicines and prescribed drugs: a systematic review." Drugs 61 (2001): 2163-75

Moderate

budesonide  food

Applies to: Pulmicort Turbuhaler (budesonide)

You should avoid the regular consumption of large amounts of grapefruits and grapefruit juice while taking budesonide. Grapefruit can raise the levels of budesonide in your body and lead to increased side effects. Do not increase or decrease the amount of grapefruit products in your diet without first talking to your doctor.

[Sassenach]

Hi Missy

 

50% is quite a drop, 4 x25% would be gentler if you have not started reducing yet..

If you notice any adverse reaction let us know.

We really need your diaries to monitor your progress and suggest other changes which may help your W/D experience.

 

Sass

[Altostrata]

How are you feeling with 5mg cetirizine? If you're getting rebound itching, you might want to reduce by 25% every 4 days or so rather than those 5mg decreases.

[MissyE]

Thanks @Sassenach @Altostrata

I only cut to 5mg certirizine for 1 day, so I've changed to 2.5mg from yesterday.

I've restarted my diary today.  

 

 Frightened this chronic overwhelm and anxiety is my WD normal?  

 

I have not always been so overwhelmed with my family life.  There have been times I managed ok. 

 

I hope you're doing ok today.

Love and peace 

Missy

[Sassenach]

Hi Missy.

 

7 hours ago, MissyE said:

I've restarted my diary today.

Good this will help us track your symptoms and  ensure Alto can stay up to date.

7 hours ago, MissyE said:

 Frightened this chronic overwhelm and anxiety is my WD normal?  

Provided you get help and guidance it should not be the case.

It will also help as your W/D comes under control and stabilises.

As Alto rightly said it will take all of you pulling together but it can be done.

How have you felt today?

 

Sass

[MissyE]

Good to hear from you Sass.   Still feeling the same sadly.  Like I'm hanging on by my finger nails.  

Are you ok?

 

Weds 5th Dec

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety 7
7:45am breakfast

8am 112.5mg XR venlafaxine 37.5mg IR venlafaxine, 3/4 cetirizine 7.5mg, folic acid, 1g Omega 3, 400iu vit E

Battling to get R ready for school
9am back from school drop off anxiety 6

9:40am ruminating
Chat with sister M on phone about R anxiety 7 despair 7
11:00am EMDR with therapist

Anxiety 6
12:45 p.m. Ate lunch

1:15pm 2g Omega-3

2pm helping with reading at school anxiety 7
3:30pm home from school anxiety 6
4pm despair 6 "not going to feel any better"
5:30pm tea

6pm 75mg venlafaxine IR, 1g Omega-3
6:15pm Hub and D home.  R still not eaten tea
In tears "l can't do this anymore" despair 7

lie down

7pm helped with bedtime anxiety 6 pleased I'd not just given up

7:30pm exhausted 8

Woke twice anxiety 6

Got back to sleep.

[MissyE]

Fri 6th Dec

 

6:30a.m. Woke with anxiety 7

Resource
7am shower anxiety 6

8am 112.5mg XR venlafaxine 37.5mg IR venlafaxine, 3/4 cetirizine 7.5mg, folic acid, 1g Omega 3, 400iu vit E

Battling to get R ready for school
9am back from school drop off anxiety 6

9:30am walk dry mouth 6

10am school Carol concert anxiety 7

11:00 walk home

12:30 lunch with Dad and D  coffee

14:00 2g Omega 3

15:30 school pick up dry mouth 6 anxiety 7

16:00 hub home

17:30 urgent loose stools

75mge venlafaxine IR, 1g Omega-3

R rufusing to eat anxiety 6 

19:00 bed time R &  D

Chatted with hub, sewing and watching TV

anxiety 6 despair 7

22:30 5 red spots under left eye

bed

Woke 4 times anxiety 6

Got back to sleep.

 

Do l need to be having my meds and supplements at exactly the same times each day?  Is it likely variation in times is making me worse?  I always varied though.

 

Love and peace.

[sunnysideup69]

Hello @MissyE, I'm pretty sure the answer to that question will be yes......personally, I keep Venlafaxine med times the same as it creates stability for the nervous system. Especiallly as Ven/effexor has such a short half life. I take the XR version also, but I still keep med times the same.

Likewise, I'm now taking my supplement of fish oil at the same time every day, ie after supper around 6pm. 

The nervous system likes regularity, predictability ...especially now when we are suffering WD. That's my tuppenceworth. 

Sending greetings from a chilly London, have a good day

[MissyE]

Morning Sunny, yes that makes sense. 

 

Unfortunately it's my biggest struggle to manage the chaos and have a set routine.  I know l have to help myself.  I seem to be my own biggest barrier.  I'm trying setting my watch.  

 

I hope you're ok today.  

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

4 minutes ago, MissyE said:

Morning Sunny, yes that makes sense. 

 

Unfortunately it's my biggest struggle to manage the chaos and have a set routine.  I know l have to help myself.  I seem to be my own biggest barrier.  I'm trying setting my watch.  

 

I hope you're ok today.  

 

 

 

I'm ok, bit flat, have been wobbling around a bit these last 10 days or so, but had a better day yesterday. I think work is knackering me a bit, although it's also providing some laughs, too. I actually laughed at work yesterday, first time in ages. Hope you're doing ok. Windows for us all soon, please  

[MissyE]

1 hour ago, MissyE said:

Chatted with hub, sewing and watching TV

anxiety 6 despair 7

19:00 Fri 6th Dec add in crying in despair.

[Gridley]

4 hours ago, MissyE said:

crying in despair.

Sorry you're feeling low, MissyE.  You're among friends.

[Erell]

Hi dear Missy

Just dropping by To say i'm thinking of you ❤

I don't see it in your signature : have you already tried a low amount of magnesium ?

 

Have you tried some nondrugs coping techniques? ( relaxation, méditation...).

 

Give you big hugs (if you like them)

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Missy

8 hours ago, MissyE said:

Do l need to be having my meds and supplements at exactly the same times each day?  Is it likely variation in times is making me worse?

Definitely, very important even with xr meds.

 

8 hours ago, MissyE said:

I always varied though.

It was not a good idea in the past but worse now because your CNS is so unstable.

Our brains need continuity to repair.

Have you felt any effects from  reduced cetirizine ?

Have you got any further with counselling or therapy to help with R?

 

It is still less than a month since your last med reduction, believe it or not you are managing extremely well in the circumstances.

8 hours ago, MissyE said:

Chatted with hub, sewing and watching TV

This is good, we need our partners at this time.

The fact that you choose to sew while doing other things means your mental acuity is good.

Many of us experience cog fog and mental difficulties in W/D.

 

You will get there, can't tell you when but it will happen.

 

Sass

 

[MissyE]

15 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Have you felt any effects from  reduced cetirizine ?

My nose is stuffy like I've a cold coming on and l've had a bad headache.  The red spots under my eye flared up on Fri but have settled again.  They're not itchy.

 

15 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Have you got any further with counselling or therapy to help with R?

In the process of arranging couples counseling.  Hub and l not communicating effectively.  Also got a book to help me communicate with R and he will have support at school in Jan hopefully to get him to open up and seeing his teacher this week. 

 

My therapist is away for 4 weeks over Christmas (I hate Christmas anyway).  Last session Tues.  That scares me.

 

Thanks @Sassenach the anxiety tricks me into thinking it's game over.  It's weird l can sew ok, but get really overwhelmed trying to cook tea.  

 

Thanks @Gridley it's good to know l have friends who understand and @Erell l love hugs 🤗

 

May your days be calm.

Love and peace

Missy 

 

[sunnysideup69]

@MissyE, have some hugs from me, too xxx

[MissyE]

Diary posted December 1st isn't fully anonymous, please will some help me blank out my little boy's name.  If there's any I've missed l need them blanking.

[MissyE]

Sat 7th Dec

 

06:30 Woke with anxiety 7

08:30 breakfast 112.5mg XR venlafaxine 37.5mg IR venlafaxine, 1/2 cetirizine 5mg, folic acid, 1g Omega 3, 400iu vit E

Anxiety 6 despair 6

09:30 shower stuffy nose

10:45 D swimming anxiety 6

12:30 lunch 2g Omega 3 

13:15 headache 4 nap

15:30 anxiety 7

17:30 tea

18:00 75mg venlafaxine IR, 1g Omega-3

anxiety 6 headache 4

19:00 bed time D

20:00 watching TV

anxiety 6 

22:00 anxiety 5

Woke 3 times anxiety 6

Got back to sleep

12 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

@MissyE, have some hugs from me, too xxx

🤗

[MissyE]

My current job is to make my meds consistent.  This means l need to think about consistent meal times too.

Would it be helpful to plan spacing them out around the half life? I'm wondering if @Altostrata has any suggestions please.

If not, I'm thinking: 08:00, 12:30 & 18:00.

Thanks.

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Missy

 

Edited your diary of 1st Dec, please check I have missed nothing.

Have looked through subsequent posts which seem ok, if not let me know.

8 hours ago, MissyE said:

the anxiety tricks me into thinking it's game over.  It's weird l can sew ok, but get really overwhelmed trying to cook tea.  

One you have to do the other you choose to do, ie cooking is a stressor, sewing is not and probably calms you.

Your meal times are fine as long as you stick to them.

We will talk to Alto about med. times when you are off cetirizine.

Only one change at a time so we know what is working.

Stay strong.

 

Sass

[MissyE]

Sun 8th Dec

06:00 Tried to get back to sleep anxiety 6

07:47 breakfast 112.5mg XR venlafaxine 37.5mg IR venlafaxine, 1/2 cetirizine 5mg, folic acid, 1g Omega 3, 400iu vit E

Anxiety 6 

Headache 4

09:30 itchy inside left ear - allergy symptom

11:05 trapeze and silks circus experience with sister M for her 40th birthday anxiety 6 late getting there

anxiety 5 after

13:00 lunch 2g Omega

16:10 2 x paracetamol headache 5 sore throat could be allergy or getting another cold

17:00 tea

18:00 75g venlafaxine IR, 1g Omega-3

anxiety 6

Played Lego with boys

19:30 bed time R read stories, chatted and cuddled anxiety 5

20:00 Talked to hub A in bed

Reading communication book - A and l have agreed to work through this together anxiety 5

22:00 sleep

Woke once anxiety 6

Back to sleep.

 

Thanks @Sassenach the edit looks sorted to me now. 

 

Yes, just one change at once our Sass.

 

Monitoring what works best to get consistency.  07:30 may be my morning time rather than 08:00.  This week trying to remember to set my alarm and wear my watch. 

 

The cetirizine reduction seems to have triggered some allergy symptoms.   Currently non noted 06:30 9th Dec.

 

I felt a tiny bit of hope yesterday.

May we all share in this feeling SA friends and be headed for better days.

Love and peace

Missy 

 

 

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Missy

 

Diary for yesterday is looking good.

Less stressors, no refusal to eat, no getting ready for school and this

9 hours ago, MissyE said:

Played Lego with boys

19:30 bed time R read stories, chatted and cuddled anxiety 5

and this

10 hours ago, MissyE said:

A and l have agreed to work through this together anxiety 5

You need to keep reminding each other.

One day does not a pattern make but it does seem you need help to work on anxiety.

Hope it materialises in new year.

One concern, do you experience headaches every day?

 

Hope you enjoyed weekend, how has today been?

 

Sass

[MissyE]

Yesterday was better.  Hub had the boys most of the day though so he had to deal with most of R's behaviour.  

 

Today ended up horrendous.  Lots of crying this evening.  

 

Yes anxiety (and depression: complex PTSD/hereditary) got me into this mess in the first place.  The drugs numbed me for a while.  Then made it worse than ever. 

I'm working on it with my therapist.

 

Is this anxiety me or is the WD making me even more anxious? I don't know anymore.  Who am l without anxiety?  

 

No headache today thankfully.

 

I hope your day has been better than mine.

 

Missy.

[MissyE]

Mon 9th Dec

Sun 8th Dec

06:15 anxiety 6

07:00 shower

07:30 breakfast 112.5mg XR venlafaxine 37.5mg IR venlafaxine, 1/2 cetirizine 5mg, folic acid, 1g Omega 3, 400iu vit E

Anxiety 6 

Battling R to get ready for school, R lashing out; protecting D trying not to lose my temper

08:50 drop off.  Despair 5

09:10 walk to toddler cafe 

11:00 D feeding ducks walk home

anxiety 6 

12:30 lunch 2g Omega

13:00 playing with D

14:00 reading

15:10 school pick up

R refusing to get changed, easily upset lost my temper when he hit D

17:30 A home tea

18:00 75g venlafaxine IR, 1g Omega-3

anxiety 6

Battlefield bed time

anxiety 7

20:00 crying despair 7 

21:00 watched TV talked to hub A.  Trying to think of ways to help R and manage behaviour.  Not feeling hopeful.

22:30 struggling to get to sleep

Woke twice, struggled to get back to sleep

 

I don't have an appetite.  Pre drugs l loved my food.  Now l am only hungry once l start to eat.  If l let myself I'd binge on sweets, chocolate, cakes, biscuits, crisps etc...

 

I had hope on Sunday.   I'm being pushed and pushed by WD and my life. 

 

Therapy today.  

 

D is up now.  Hub dealing with R.

 

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Hi @MissyE, sending you strength and encouragement. Had a proper read of your thread. You seemed to have a great window over the summer months and I think that's very encouraging indeed. 

It's SO frustrating to feel better and then to be back in a wave. But you will have a window again. And you may well have some baseline gains from going through this long wave.

 

I can also relate to your questioning whether the anxiety is yours or whether it's WD. It's probably both ie a bit of your own anxiety which WD is blowing out of all proportion. Easy for me to sit and type to you, much harder for any of us to remember when in a wave. It will get better if you continue to do some things to help your parasympathetic nervous system eg meditation, relaxations on youtube, gentle exercise, exposure to nature....whatever helps you. I also love the legs up the wall yoga that Gridley posted on my thread, and off the back of that, went to a restorative yoga class, it was wonderful. I tend to run twice a week, I notice you're a bit of an 'active exerciser' like me. I think this is great because it releases endorphins but I've also realised I need to balance it with more restorative things or else it just depletes me a bit. Sometimes in a wave, I'll do a 5k walk instead of a run.

 

You have stressors at the moment which is also not helping, I'm sure, I can relate to that. But you're surviving. Coping with your own kids during this deserves an award, as far as I'm concerned. I teach, and I love the kids, but they are VERY trying during WD bad days. I've felt very snappy on occasion, and sometimes just have to excuse myself from the classroom. 

 

Sending you good wishes for a better day ahead  

Ruth x

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Missy

 

It seems R's behaviour has reached a point where he is out of control at home.

When your second child is at risk it is no longer a matter of waiting.

I suggest you contact social services/ child care services tomorrow and ensure they understand the urgency of your situation.

January at school is not soon enough.

We will help with your meds in any way we can,  this sort of stress will prevent you from recovering.

It really pains me to write this but you all need help now.

 

Sass

 

 

[MissyE]

On 12/10/2019 at 7:30 AM, sunnysideup69 said:

sending you strength and encouragement.

Thank you Ruth x

[MissyE]

@Sassenach hard to read but right.  I've spoken to school and safeguarding and social care and had to go and see the psych team.  Refused their offer to increase/change my meds. 

Still have to wait "a couple of weeks" for family support. Spent the day asking for help.  Hard, hard day.  I wish my dad was like you.

 

Hope, peace, love.

 

 

[Sassenach]

Hi MIssy

 

9 hours ago, MissyE said:

Refused their offer to increase/change my meds. 

Well done, you will stabilise and feel better.

One day this will be just a bad memory.

 

Sass

[MissyE]

Thur 13th Dec

06:30 shower resource anxiety 6

07:45 breakfast 112.5mg XR venlafaxine 37.5mg IR venlafaxine,

1/4 cetirizine 2.5mg, folic acid, 1g Omega 3, 400iu vit E

Anxiety 6 

08:00 took D to nursery

09:00 A & I chat with teacher at R's school anxiety 6

09:30 bought tree anxiety 6

10:30 sports massage shoulder 

anxiety 5.5

12:00 Pick up a few groceries anxiety 6

12:45 lunch 2g Omega 3 TV

14:00 set up tree decorating tomorrow

18:00 75g venlafaxine IR, 1g Omega-3

anxiety 6

19:30 read in bed

wake 3 times

Went back to sleep

[sunnysideup69]

On 12/12/2019 at 6:41 AM, MissyE said:

  Refused their offer to increase/change my meds. 

 

 

You've given me inspiration and courage with this, @MissyE. We are GOING to stabilise. It's happening already. Some days, dunno about you, but I give in to self pity....not for too long, but I do. Life is bleddy hard, without all this WD stuff going on. So, big round of applause to us. Also, I'm in awe of you dealing with kids throughout this process, think I've said that before and I mean it. Sending light and peace and hope ❤️

[Erell]

Thinking of you dear Missy, Big hugs and love ❤️

[MissyE]

Thank you @Erell @sunnysideup69 and @Sassenach

It's always comforting to remember you care.

Sending love.

 

Since tapering certirizine 1/4 every 4 days (stopped yesterday, Mon) l have developed itchy eczema like hands.  When l put lights on our tree, pine needles prickled my hands and started the rash.  Usually it would clear by the next day but it's stayed itchy and sore, flaring up when I'm hot or cold.

My scalp has been itchy and an itchy patch in my jaw.  As l type there's l mild itch on the back of my right hand. 

 

Any suggestions how to soothe it gratefully received? Hands have been like this since Saturday (day 3 of 1/4 certirizine). 

 

Scalp and jaw noticed yesterday.  Today is 2nd day 0 certirizine.

 

Dr Google advises to take antihistamine for Christmas tree allergy. 🤔

 

 

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

On 12/17/2019 at 6:55 AM, MissyE said:

Thank you @Erell @sunnysideup69 and @Sassenach

It's always comforting to remember you care.

Sending love.

 

Since tapering certirizine 1/4 every 4 days (stopped yesterday, Mon) l have developed itchy eczema like hands.  When l put lights on our tree, pine needles prickled my hands and started the rash.  Usually it would clear by the next day but it's stayed itchy and sore, flaring up when I'm hot or cold.

My scalp has been itchy and an itchy patch in my jaw.  As l type there's l mild itch on the back of my right hand. 

 

Any suggestions how to soothe it gratefully received? Hands have been like this since Saturday (day 3 of 1/4 certirizine). 

 

Scalp and jaw noticed yesterday.  Today is 2nd day 0 certirizine.

 

Dr Google advises to take antihistamine for Christmas tree allergy. 🤔

 

 

 

 

Hi Missy E, I always use E45. Have been using that under my eye, still hasn't cleared up properly yet though. How are you doing? Thinking of you x

[Erell]

Dear Missy,

 

Thinking of you this morning ❤ Wanted To send you big hugs!

[MissyE]

Hey you guys! Thank you @Erelland @sunnysideup69 for your love, right back at you girlies; and @Sassenach  @Gridley and @Altostrata for your ongoing support.  Words don't do justice how much it means to me that you understand and care.  Big love to all my SA friends have a peaceful Christmas doing what makes your heart sing.

 

I've been trying to stay off t'internet too much because l get really triggered and have been battling with suicidal ideation this past couple of weeks. 

 

I know in my heart I'll be ok though because l wouldn't do it to my boys.  It doesn't stop me getting obsessed with finding out more and more though, l get a weird sense of calm from it, that the pain will finally go away.  Then the shame kicks in.

 

Logically I don't know what would happen to me if l died by suicide no-one does; the pain could be even worse: l could be in eternal damnation (whatever that is... sounds horrendous; l'm not religious but am spiritual) not to mention the pain l would cause my loved ones.  Nope, not doing it. 

 

Thankfully this phase is over now.

 

Today and Saturday l felt more like myself.  It's bloody great!  I managed an inflammatory conversation about tapering with my sister (she's dead against the big pharma conspiracy... please don't ask, everyone is entitled to their opinions; so she hasn't been able to listen to how WD affects me).  I outed the anger and the fact she talks over me whenever l try to let her know how I'm feeling and where I'm up to.  She felt l was ok on meds and "the wheels have fallen off" over the past couple of years since I've been trying to come off them. 

 

Whoa there, back the truck up!! 

 

The reason l have been trying to

come off them is because they don't work anymore!! I have tried so many and the ones that suit me best made the anxiety worse than ever in the end.  Also l have tried to come off them too quickly more than 2 years ago and ended up on my a***.  I have already explained this more than once, but clearly she wasn't able to listen before.  She did get it that her end stage Parkinson's patients get drug induced shakes when their meds stop working, so then could see how ADs can stop working too.   I also reminded her of homeostasis.  I do understand it's worrying having a sister with my history.  It's good to remember l know myself best and want the best healing l can.  I know the anxiety won't go away when I'm off the meds that's why I'm learning ways to accept myself and live with it.

 

Anyway all this tells me I'm back (for now), that and the fact I'm a tiny bit excited to see my loved ones opening their presents; and I put make up on.

 

Stay strong SA friends!

 

Love, peace, sparkles; 

namaste

Missy x