Mamgu: reducing citalopram

[Mamgu]

Hi,

 

First of all I'd like to thank everyone connected with this site, I'm learning so much about the best methods of reducing Citalopram and am grateful for those of you who set this up, maintain it and contribute!  A heartfelt Thank You. 

 

I don't have any where near as horrific a story as many here and I hope no one minds me dropping by; I'm looking for advice on my next steps.  I was prescribed Citalopram 20mg after a couple of months off work with 'anxiety (NOS)'; basically I couldn't get off the sofa without feeling I was going to faint.  I think I react by Freezing in the Fight/Flight/Freeze response.  After a couple of years I talked to my Dr about coming off and, as with many of you, was advised wrongly to drop by half for a few weeks then stop totally.  All was tolerable for a couple of months (nasty symptoms but tolerable) until the crushing fatigue hit and I thought perhaps I wasn't ready to come off Citalopram as the fatigue was my  main reason for starting on the drug in the first place.  I wasn't just tired, it felt as though my soul was tired.  So I went back on the drug in Sept 2016 and eventually steadied at 20mg.  Last year I wanted to reduce the dose to see if I could cope without....still naive about how this should really be done....and dropped to 15mg then 10mg after a while.  I had a few withdrawal symptoms but they were manageable.  Had a great autumn and winter so thought I could drop again.  Last month I reduced the dose to ~7.5mg (cutting a 10mg pill into quarters so can't be precise).  This is where I found you all, I wanted some reassurance that I was doing this the right way, hahahahha, I now see it isn't. 

 

So, I've decided to dissolve my 10mg tablet in water and pipette out the desired amount, reducing by 10% after a period of stability.  I've ordered the pipettes and a beaker so should be in a position to start this soon.

 

However.....in the meantime, my withdrawal symptoms are getting stronger at times, it's erratic and difficult to find any pattern.  My question is, would you recommend I go back to 10mg, stabilize then taper by 10% or should I sit this out until I settle then commence the 10% routine?

 

It's important to me that I remain in work, so far so good and I really don't want to experience that fatigue again.  My symptoms are fuggy brain,  irritability, lack of concentration, socially withdrawn, tingling in my fingers and left side of my face/neck, tiredness, twitching and the feeling of ants marching over my skin, the ants are wearing boots!

 

Many thanks for reading.

 

Mamgu

 

 

[Mamgu]

Another question - is it usual to have periods of 'high' amongst the lows?  The reason for asking is that I have an unusual amount of energy today which is following a crash yesterday after I had an anxiety attack.  This isn't a pleasant feeling and I still can't concentrate as my thoughts are all over the place.

 

Thanks again for reading.

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Mamgu.

 

On 6/12/2019 at 1:15 PM, Mamgu said:

However.....in the meantime, my withdrawal symptoms are getting stronger at times, it's erratic and difficult to find any pattern.  My question is, would you recommend I go back to 10mg, stabilize then taper by 10% or should I sit this out until I settle then commence the 10% routine?

 

If I were you, I'd go back to 10mg, count on stabilizing there for at least a few months before a more gradual taper. Your pipettes will come in handy then.

 

It's classic for withdrawal symptoms to occur in The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization  when you have periods of feeling fine. Your nervous system is struggling to get back to balance and sometimes it succeeds.

 

You've seen Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram) ?

 

Please let us know how you're doing or if you have any questions.

[Mamgu]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply Altostrata, I greatly appreciate it 🙂

 

When I read your recommendation I must confess to feeling a little crestfallen.  However, after reading though the links you posted and taking on board the experiences of others I am now embracing your advice completely.  So, it's back to 10mg for me, not the end of the world.  I'll hold for a few months and start the 10% reduction.  I presume I'll know when to commence the taper, i.e. I'll feel some stability in the symptoms.

 

Peace and patience to all of us!

 

Mamgu

x

[ChessieCat]

Hi Mamgu and welcome from me too,

 

Here's some additional information which might help you to understand what is happening:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern (Alto gave you this same link)

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

[Mamgu]

Thanks ChessieCat - I really appreciate you taking the time to comment.

 

I've read through a fair bit of those links and the message is sinking in; take time!  There's a lot of information to absorb but what I've read thus far makes an awful lot of sense; this site is a wonderful resource.  I also have a lot of weight to lose so I'm going to take the same approach, I'm in it for the long haul but I'll get there 🙂

x

 

[ChessieCat]

You're welcome.

 

Yes, it is going to take time as well as lots of patience.  Listen to your symptoms, not the calendar.  Also hold during illness and additional stress (even good stress, eg holidays).

 

Something that it is good to be aware of.  There most probably will be times when you become impatient.  Even though I have the knowledge about tapering and understand the process, there have been times during my taper (it's been 3.5 years now and I have about 2 more to go) when I've wanted to go faster.  And recently I have had several times when I've been tempted to just stop.  I'm on 3mg now and it seems such a tiny amount, especially since I was taking 100mg, but I have to remind myself that my brain needs the drug at this time.

 

It's not a race.  It's a journey, and at times a hard slog, but we put one foot in front of the other and we will eventually get there.

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

[Mamgu]

Hi again.

 

I’d like to say how well this site is organised and how I value the contributors.  Folks are going through all sorts of personal hell yet still take time to offer advice and compassion, I really do appreciate it.  I think my greatest relief is that I’m understanding I’m normal-broken as opposed to specially-broken 😊. 

 

It’s been a mere 3 ½ weeks since I returned my citalopram dose to 10mg/day.  I know it’s far too early for me to consider returning to tapering but in the meantime I’m reading a lot in preparation for when I am ready.

 

After about a week of reinstating 10mg I’ve been feeling pretty grotty and appreciate it’ll take time for my brain and central nervous system to ‘rebuild'.  I feel slightly concerned in that I’m experiencing a kind of disconnection and as though I’m ‘not really here’.  I don’t think it’s full-on disassociation but maybe a sort of mild form?  It feels as though there’s too much information bombarding my senses and I want to ‘check out’ for a while.  I can function through it, it comes in waves from mild to almost debilitating.  It can totally take me back to when I experienced a massive trauma and I certainly stepped out of myself at that time.  I can near that episode but don’t reach that extreme.  I hope this isn’t unusual given my situation and that it’ll settle eventually?

 

I’m keeping notes to show myself trends and utilising all sorts of techniques to reduce anxiety and have read a recommended (on here) book – Claire Weekes – Self Help for your Nerves.  I can mostly follow what she recommends but really have difficulty with the ‘Floating’ technique.  I struggle with visualisation generally but what I’m doing is pretending I’m actually floating and that relaxes me.  Daft question (so sorry)…..have I got that right or should I be approaching this differently?  I’ve always been shoddy at the creative/imaginative stuff!

 

My other background noise of symptoms at present are tinnitus, band of pressure round my head, pins and needles in fingers and left hand side of face, aching teeth and jaw……..and now insomnia has arrived….oh joy!

 

Another revelation to me is that I have to knock the alcohol on the head.  I’ve drank wine twice over that last couple of weeks and saw my background noise levels soar the following days.  So I’m not going near the stuff until I’m waaay beyond all this.

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by ChessieCat
changed font to default

[Mamgu]

Curious revelation (to me at least).  I had a bout of Shingles in October 2018 and the area of my body that had the rash has been burning these last couple of weeks.  I guess the nerves haven't yet recovered from the Shingles attack and the fluctuating levels of Citalopram might have irritated the area?   Just a thought.

[Mamgu]

These are my ramblings - apologies for going on a bit but this is my record of how things have been to date.

 

So, it's coming up to 3 months since I returned to 10mg of Citalopram and it's been very interesting, to put it mildly.  I've experienced a range of new-to-me symptoms but well documented on this forum so I'm not panicking and am putting it down to my poor nervous system battling away.  Also, some of my pre-existing symptoms have been exceptionally severe: head pressure, pain on the back of my head to the point of feeling as though I've been hit by a hammer, freezing/burning sensations on my scalp, legs so heavy it's like walking through treacle, feeling as though I'm not here....not sure where but definitely not here.  Above all though is irritability and finding pleasantries too tedious to entertain.  Which must be difficult for my work colleagues as they have to put up with my moods...I can pretend to be engaged to a point but at times I feel genuinely insulted by their presence and annoyed at having to discuss how they are and what the weather is like.  I used to be a nice person, not so much these days....this makes me sad.

 

I've been keeping a journal of how things are going and noted 9 1/2 days of windows in July and 19 days in August so that's progress.  However, I had a severe reaction on 30th August when I stupidly decided to get up much earlier than I would usually and in the evening I drank wine and stayed up much, much later than is good for me, just nattering and digesting a newly released album by one of my favourite bands who hadn't released anything for 13 years.  So, yeah I was excited and happy BUT late in the evening I started to feel wobbly and it honestly felt as though my brain was twitching and physically disintegrating.  I took the hint and went to bed but have been suffering since.  Lessons learnt: whatever I think or feel, booze is a no-go-zone, just take the hint Mamgu. Oh, and don't fight tiredness, regardless of whether a long awaited album has been released or not!

 

I was kind of hoping to be considering my next phase and to start reducing the dose about now, but I genuinely think I need another couple of months at least, so regrettable I'm holding for now.  I hear you, sagacious ChessieCat!  My grandson is due in early November and my son asked me to look after my 4 year old granddaughter when the baby is born.  It's a 5+ hour drive away and driving can be a trigger for my anxiety attacks so I'm already feeling nervous yet excited too.

 

I feel fed up and swing through the wave-driven "what's the point of even trying, I'm doomed" to window-led "yey, I feel great and can drop my dose by 50%"....stupid stupid stupid!!  Still, I give myself a pep talk and enjoy, when I can, my walks in nature with my gorgeous yet highly anxious dog....we're well matched I guess 🙂

 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Mamgu said:

I was kind of hoping to be considering my next phase and to start reducing the dose about now, but I genuinely think I need another couple of months at least, so regrettable I'm holding for now.  I hear you, sagacious ChessieCat!  My grandson is due in early November and my son asked me to look after my 4 year old granddaughter when the baby is born.  It's a 5+ hour drive away and driving can be a trigger for my anxiety attacks so I'm already feeling nervous yet excited too.

 

How exciting.  SA recommends holding during times of additional stress.

[Mamgu]

I generally take an antihistamine daily (Citirizine Hydrochloride) from March to September for hay fever and stopped taking them last week.  Since then I've experienced horrible itching sensations on my body, arms and face.  I can't seem to alleviate the itching, nothing helps.  This is driving me bonkers!  The reason for mentioning it here is that I've never had this reaction before and am tentatively linking it to the Citalopram dose changes I made in May/June this year.  I may be barking up the wrong tree but I've read about the potential links between the two types of drugs though more about intolerance when introducing antihistamines during withdrawal.  I don't recall seeing anything about an impact when stopping.  But, given this forum is a great wealth of what may happen when altering/reducing AD doses, I thought I'd chuck this into the mix too.

 

This will also serve as a reminder to me when March arrives and I start to take the antihistamines again; if there's an adverse reaction it may suggest I have a sensitivity.  We'll see.

 

I'm still holding on 10mg Citalopram, baby grandson is due in 3 weeks and although I'm much, much much better I still have the odd wobble.....and not forgetting the itching.....it really is driving me nuts!

[Hamster]

Hi Mamgu,

 

just google "antihistamine withdrawal" and you will find a lot of information on people suffering in a similar way than you do.

Just one quote from https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6680163/You-dependent-Zyrtec-itchy-withdrawals-allergy-drug.html:

 

"By September 2018, nearly 1,500 people in the US had reported pruritus - excessive itching - reactions to Zyrtec. The previous year, there were 2,234 reports."

Ceterizine seems to be the main culprit, so switching to another antihistamine may help or (once again ...) tapering the ceterizine.

 

Regards,

 

Hamster

 

[Mamgu]

Oh my goodness, I hadn't even considered this, thanks for the link Hamster.  I guess I shouldn't be that surprised really.  I suppose I need to research a different strategy come next spring, or just sniff and sneeze all summer!

[Mamgu]

5 months later I'm finally starting my taper-proper 😃.  Grandson arrived a little early, both him and his mum are doing great and he's a gorgeous little bean, I'm besotted 😍.  I went into a total tailspin as soon as I heard labour had stated and I plummeted into catastrophising mode, thinking all sorts of ridiculous things but all went very well.  Such a wondrous event had indeed unsettled my WD equilibrium for a few weeks.  So yes, even the good stress can have a surprisingly negative impact.  It settled though and now I feel the time is right to commence my taper.

 

I took a couple of weeks to move from 100% dry tablet to 100% dissolved and noticed some mild symptoms, nothing too bad yet noticeable.  Today I dropped my dose to 9.0mg and will take symptom notes for reference.

 

I feel pretty good about this, been a long wait but here we go!!!

[Mamgu]

Reduced dose to 8.1mg today.  I took a longer time to reduce the dose than I anticipated as December is always a difficult month for me and I had a lot going on that impacted my symptoms.  I thought it prudent to hold for a little longer. 

    

Since previous Citalopram dose drop I experienced some new-to-me symptoms: 

Burning/grinding sensation in my stomach.  I would wake up in the night and take ages to return back to sleep.  This wasn’t a digestion related feeling, more anxiety.  Though on the whole I’m not feeling anxious and I’ve never felt anxiety in my stomach before.  This started 2 weeks in and I presume is totally WD-related.  It's now fading in intensity and number of episodes. 

  

Tingling on the backs of my hands if I stumble or drop something.  Only lasts seconds but very noticeable.  I feel pretty certain it’s WD related. 

  

Rash in armpits.  Treating with Tea Tree oil and is responding slowly.  I suspect some sort of fungal infection so am not relating this to WD.  Noted here for my future reference because...well, I just don't know! 

  

Usual ‘old friends’ include the following (scores are when the symptoms were at their worse, they were not always present): 

• Tinnitus 4/5 
• Nausea 2/5 
• Feeling of not being here 4/5 
• Aching jaw/teeth pain 5/5 
• Fatigue 3/5 
• Cog fog 3/5 
• Apathy 4/5 
• Sadness 3/5 
• Insomnia 4/5 
• Tightness round scalp 3/5 
• When I look to the left out of the corner of my eyes I feel a mild zapping in my head and stomach.  Not as intense as the brain zaps I experienced when I first stopped the drug too quickly in 2016. 3/5 
• Tingling on left hand side of face 2/5 
• This one is more difficult to explain, I can only describe it as some kind of communication breakdown between brain and body when I'm in motion...maybe there's a proper word for it?  When walking I feel as though the ground is slipping away from underneath me, or I'm walking on an escalator.  When driving I feel as though my head is moving at a different rate to my body especially when I pull up at a junction or traffic lights.  I've had some powerful jolts of adrenaline with this and it can last a while.  It generally ceases if I stop driving and have a little walk. 4/5

It’s not been a great month, I’ve felt really rotten at times but can’t see if I’m reducing the dose too quickly because, as mentioned previously December was a tough month so it's not a good period to make comparisons.  

 

Stopped taking birth control pill on 9th January. 

 

Will continue with monitoring and attempt to keep my life on as even a keel as is within my control!  Lots to be positive about and life is pretty good outside of the drug-induced shenanigans. 

[Mamgu]

The last drop, to 7.3mg hit a bit harder.  I had some intense symptoms that were worse than I've felt during this slow withdrawal process mainly: tinnitus, aching teeth/jaw and a strong feeling of 'not being here', that is best way I can describe it.  Insomnia also ramped up as did the pressure/pain on my scalp. That started to settle then I contract a UTI for which I was prescribed antibiotics (nitrofurantoin).  Well that put the cat among the pigeons for sure.  I reacted very badly and my withdrawal symptoms increased to intolerable levels, especially fatigue, I even had to leave work as I couldn't concentrate and needed sleep. I finished the course and pretty much as soon as the antibiotics left my system I improved.

 

I think it's best to wait a little longer before my next Citalopram drop.  Work is getting more intense and I'm studying for career-based qualification which is also impacting on my resilience.  UTIs apart, I'm coping and am tentatively progressing.

 

Keep on keeping on!

 

 

[Maui]

@Mamgu hello, I just read your thread. Congratulations on your granchild. I have just weaned off citalopram as well. I have had or currently have many of the same symptoms of you. 

[Mamgu]

Hi @Maui thanks for your congratulations 🙂 I'm still full of new baby joy, he's such a happy chappy and him and my granddaughter light up the tough days.  And there are many of those.

 

I see you're struggling too, I'm sorry to read that.  I took the advice from the knowledgeable folks here, especially ChessieCat who instilled the Take Your Time mantra.  I think it's such good advice and although I really didn't want to increase my dose in the summer I'm glad I did. 

 

The Cog Fog is really frightening to me too, I know I'm under-performing at work and am totally blagging it.  I have good and bad days so but I'm noticing with this controlled withdrawal (10% drops) it's better than when I tapered under Doctor's advice so I'm pretty hopeful I'll recover.  Some good news is I've started reading and listening to music again, both those things can lift me out the doldrums but I just couldn't engage with either for a couple of years.

 

We'll get there 🙂

 

 

 

[Mamgu]

So, I had a long wait before my next drop in dose, this was primarily due to a hard hit with the last drop, having to take antibotics which impacted on symptoms and to give myself time to settle following the covid-19 situation.  As well as the stress of the virus my workload pretty much doubled plus I had some assignment deadlines for my course.....it seemed prudent to hold a while longer 🙂

 

I've noticed a pattern with the last 3 drops, within a couple of days after reducing the dose I'd be in immense paid when walking.  I feel the pain in my lower back, hips and upper thighs, but it would settle within a few moments of resting.  Bit of a shame as walking is my therapy and I love being outdoors but as least it stops after a couple of weeks.  Other than that it's the same as before, my emotions are all over the place with the covid thing and both my sons are working in supermarkets which doesn't help my anxiety but I'm managing it well as time progresses.  On the negative side the diet is out the window due to comfort eating 😬

[Mamgu]

So I'm still struggling with the pelvic pain, it's pretty constant now and I struggle to walk more than a mile or so.  I push through it as I need the walks but not sure that's a good idea in the long run.  Plus my walks aren't as therapeutic as they used to be 😞.

 

I've been waking up at silly o'clock with a churning stomach and am wide awake so no point in staying in bed.   It's not a digestive issue (not yet, anyway!!) but seems to be more about anxiety I guess.  It stays with me all day but so far is a background irritation rather than anything debilitating.

 

I also have bonkers dreams and outright horror film style nightmares, chuck in a few voices/noises in my head too.  The voices aren't frightening and don't say anything specific, just the odd random word.  Noises are dog barks, nothing like how my dog barks and I know it's not him as he sleeps on my bed and is undisturbed when I check. I'm just hearing people and dogs in my half sleep - half wake haze.  I'm not worried about this but it's really very strange!

 

I find it curious that when I started off withdrawing I had raging energy stuck in my head (dizzyness, a sense of not being here, painful teeth and face, disorientation when moving....) and that appears to have settled but the ball of rage seems to be concentrated in my pelvic area now.  Perhaps this is normal as the dose reduces, I've no idea.  I'm trying to quell the health anxiety I seem to have developed in recent times and tell myself it's nothing to do with menopause!!

 

I'm going to stay on my current dose for a little while longer to give me time to settle down, I'll take it a week at a time and 'listen' to my body to tell me when it's ready for the next drop.  It's exhausting but we're all get through this.

x

 

 

[Mamgu]

I'm beginning to question if I've done the right thing by reducing the Citalopram, I'm in a pretty bad way but no idea if it's the drug or outside forces.  I'm low, teary and find little joy.  I'm meant to be visiting my family and friends in Wales in a couple of days but I don't think I have the energy to drive that far.  Yet I need to see them; I haven't seen my grandchildren since Christmas and it's upsetting me.  I've been busy with work and my course, it's taking a toll, so I just might be plain worn out and low for obvious reasons.  But I haven't been 'right' for months, maybe years.  Perhaps I'm in a withdrawal-induced depression.  Does that sound feasible to anyone? 

[ChessieCat]

Non-AD prescribed drugs: Levothyroxine 200mg (since 1988), Amlodipine 5mg and Ramapril 10mg (since ~2005)

 

Q:  Do you get checked for your thyroid drug regularly?

 

Q:  Do you get your blood pressure checked regularly?

 

Citalopram:  28th Nov 2019 9mg. 13th Jan 2020 8.1mg. 11th Feb 7.3mg. 29th April 2020 6.57mg. 30th May 2020 5.90mg. 21st July 5.31mg.

 

Even though you have been reducing at 10% it might be that the reductions are now too much.  We have members who have had to slow their taper down the lower they get, reducing less and/or holding for longer.

 

Q:  Have you continued reducing even if you have been getting symptoms?

 

Q:  Have you been sick, taken antibiotics, consumed alcohol?

 

Q:  Have you missed any doses?

 

Q:  Are you measuring accurately?

 

Q:  Have you introduced any new drug/s and/or supplement/s?

 

Q:  Are you stressed by the covid situation?  Since the beginning of this year we have had members reporting unexpected and/or worse waves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mamgu]

Hi ChessieCat, thanks for your prompt response, really appreciated 🙂  I've included answers to your questions in green

 

Non-AD prescribed drugs: Levothyroxine 200mg (since 1988), Amlodipine 5mg and Ramapril 10mg (since ~2005)

 

Q:  Do you get checked for your thyroid drug regularly? Yes, this was done recently in May as all is fine

 

Q:  Do you get your blood pressure checked regularly? Yes, same as above

 

Citalopram:  28th Nov 2019 9mg. 13th Jan 2020 8.1mg. 11th Feb 7.3mg. 29th April 2020 6.57mg. 30th May 2020 5.90mg. 21st July 5.31mg.

 

Even though you have been reducing at 10% it might be that the reductions are now too much.  We have members who have had to slow their taper down the lower they get, reducing less and/or holding for longer. I think you may be onto something there

 

Q:  Have you continued reducing even if you have been getting symptoms?

I generally wait until my symptoms have been very low/almost non-existent for a week or so.  I didn't expect to feel perfect so took that approach.  Might that also be where I've gone wrong?

 

Q:  Have you been sick, taken antibiotics, consumed alcohol?

Yes to alcohol, it's an anesthetic for me but actually it's not been having much affect recently so I've stopped it from yesterday.  I now see this is a no-no with in withdrawal.

 

Q:  Have you missed any doses?

never, I take it at the same time every day

 

Q:  Are you measuring accurately?

Yes, I believe so, I dissolve the tablet in a lab-style cylinder and pipette out the excess, throw away and drink the remaining dose.

 

Q:  Have you introduced any new drug/s and/or supplement/s?

No

 

Q:  Are you stressed by the covid situation?  Since the beginning of this year we have had members reporting unexpected and/or worse waves.

Yes but my fears have settled, we were all terrified at the beginning.  I've been working from home and have been especially busier (I work in HR), I'm also studying.  We are starting to work more in the office and I've found it interesting to note I'm enjoying being round people, even though I consider myself as not being a people-person. I suppose we are a gregarious species though and biology kicks in!  

 

Also, I've had a quick look at other threads and I suspect the fact I'm having a period might also exacerbate things?  I was on the mini pill until January and had no periods when on it.  I had my first in July then this month it's pretty heavy.  I'm 54 so hoped I was over all that! 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by ChessieCat
extracted response from quote box

[ChessieCat]

2 minutes ago, Mamgu said:

Also, I've had a quick look at other threads and I suspect the fact I'm having a period might also exacerbate things?  I was on the mini pill until January and had no periods when on it.  I had my first in July then this month it's pretty heavy.  I'm 54 so hoped I was over all that! 

 

Yes this could certainly be a factor.

 

Also, at 54 you are going through menopause so it makes it difficult to know what is withdrawal symptoms and what are menopause / stopping pill symptoms.

[Mamgu]

Bit of a mess then 😂

 

OK, going forward:

• stop alcohol
• try 5% reduction instead of 10%
• continue with my supportive activities: walking, mindfulness, connecting with my loved ones.

There's not much I can do about the menopause so will have to ride that out.

 

Thanks ChessieCat, I feel better to know a tweak to my strategy might help 🙂. I hope you are doing well, these are crazy times for everyone.

x

 

 

[Mamgu]

ChessieCat, I've just popped over to your website.   I really like it, succinctly gets the point over and I'll certainly check out some of those books you recommend.  

x

[Mamgu]

I stopped drinking alcohol and bizarrely since then I've been struggling with poor sleep, I wrongly assumed my withdrawals would calm quickly.  But I had been drinking regularly over the summer. 

 

Things have been fairly unsettled which I suspect is affecting how I'm doing.  I managed to get away and see my family, thankfully I had the energy to enjoy being with them and to catch up with some dear friends too.  But as has been pointed out to me, even 'good stresses' can throw us off-kilter.  Also, every time I renew my prescription I have a different brand of Citalopram as well as the other drugs I'm taking which may be a factor.

 

I appreciate I need to give things more time to calm down but it's a struggle, I feel as bad as I did in May last year, which is disheartening.  These have ramped up recently: 

• tinnitus, at times sounds like screaming
• feeling of electrical charge running over my face, lips and gums
• itching scalp
• sense of walking on a mattress
• heavy legs and feet, as though I'm walking in a swimming pool
• diminished concentration
• fatigue
• apathy
• and this one is disturbing me the most, I have a deep, deep sense of wistful mourning for a past time I never experienced; so much so my throat catches, my chest tightens, I can barely swallow and tears well up in my eyes.  I appreciate this is an obvious feeling since I'm not in the best of places right now but it's so overwhelming.  My mind drifts off to happy carefree teenage years yet I never experienced that as my teens were dreadful.  Curious how this is emerging now.  I suspect there's some work to be done there, but in the future, not for now.

A few weeks back I tried to do some aerobic exercise, to help shift some weight.  But that really wasn't a good idea, that night my body was buzzing and my mind didn't settle, I kept going over and over the same thought for hours on end.  I've read on other threads that exercise should be approached with caution and maybe I'm at the point in this process and should just keep to the walks.

 

So, I've put some things in place to help me through this period, mainly mindfulness meditation on Youtube at night, gentle exercise, stay off the booze, working in my office more often as working from home all the time isn't doing my moods much good, making more effort to keep in touch with friends and my partner (he lives in a different town). and thinking happy positive thoughts.  In the meantime I'll hold the dose for a while longer.

[Mamgu]

Oh dear, I've hit a brick wall.  I felt OK so decided to continue with the 10% drop strategy but that was a mistake.  This is the worse I've felt during the whole process; deep depressive episodes come and go and the physical pain is so bad at times it brings me to tears.  Pain tears on top of depression tears, I'm not much fun to be around right now!  I feel as though I've been punched on my scalp and my midriff.  This is on top of the usual symptoms.

 

I'm guessing I've hit the dodgy stage and really need a different strategy.  I'm going to hold off any more dose changes for a few months, certainly until the end of the year.  When I feel well enough to start reducing again I think it prudent to drop by 5% and see if that's any better, maybe I need to take it more slowly than that, I'll see but that's a way off yet.

 

I'm not sure if there's anything more I can to do to help sooth things.  I'm still practicing mindfulness, taking the right supplements, gentle strolls in nature and trying distraction techniques by thinking happy thoughts and reminding myself what is going well.....a gratitude list helps!  

 

Is there anything else I can do at this stage?  Or maybe I'm doing something wrong?  I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

x

[Mamgu]

Well, I've no idea why but since my last dose reduction I've been feeling really good 🙂.  I perked right up after a couple of days at 3.8mg and ever since I've either been symptom-free or experiencing only the slightest of symptoms.  I have not felt this good since I started reducing the dose so this is such a relief.  I was beginning to think I'd never see a significant improvement.

 

I'm not questioning it I'm just rolling with it!

 

[ChessieCat]

That's really good news.  Thank you for updating us.

 

3 hours ago, Mamgu said:

I'm not questioning it I'm just rolling with it!

 

That's the best way.

 

And it is good that you have recorded it here so that reminder yourself later if needed.

[Mamgu]

Another dose drop this week and things seem to be OK.  I still have symptoms but either they are not so bad as at the beginning or my perception is different since I'm no longer panicking about them....acceptance I guess.  I might hold for a couple of months as I'm working towards the end of my work-based qualification plus I have to move out of my home, I've been given 4 months notice to leave but am already feeling the pressure of moving.  I realised long ago that a fast taper isn't going to happen for me, and by fast taper I mean the 10% drop / 4 weeks hold recommendation.  Life just gets in the way!  

[Mamgu]

I had a longer than expected hold but today I made another drop and am now taking 2.83mg.  It's been an incredibly stressful few months and the withdrawal symptoms have been intense but finally I'm settling.  Loving my new home and am feeling generally happy but I don't seem to have any more of those symptom-free days that I experienced in April, not yet anyway!  I'm really hoping they return someday soon but in the meantime I'll be interested to see how I manage this autumn and winter - last year was pretty tough.  I'm finding my walks are getting shorter and shorter as the longer ones (say more than 2 miles) are triggering some pretty grotty symptoms. It's disappointing but I'm hoping it's temporary and I'll soon be walking a bit further.

 

Patience, they say, is a virtue; and boy do we need lots of that 🙂 

[Momiki]

Hello there, fellow citalopram-reducer! It indeed sounds like you had a tough time, though it also sounds you are able to remain optimistic. That's a really good strength to have! I'm glad to read your withdrawal symptoms are settling.

 

Have you come across the Brassmonkey Slide method on this forum already? It's a way of tapering where you do not make 1 jump of 10%, but spread the 10% out over 4 weeks (So dropping 2.5% a week for 4 weeks at a time), followed by a two week rest period. The smaller drops are easier for the body. Tapering tends to get more difficult at the lower dosages, so it might make your symptoms more manageable.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for more symptom-free days for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mamgu]

On 9/30/2021 at 7:02 PM, Jolene said:

Hello there, fellow citalopram-reducer! It indeed sounds like you had a tough time, though it also sounds you are able to remain optimistic. That's a really good strength to have! I'm glad to read your withdrawal symptoms are settling.

 

Have you come across the Brassmonkey Slide method on this forum already? It's a way of tapering where you do not make 1 jump of 10%, but spread the 10% out over 4 weeks (So dropping 2.5% a week for 4 weeks at a time), followed by a two week rest period. The smaller drops are easier for the body. Tapering tends to get more difficult at the lower dosages, so it might make your symptoms more manageable.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for more symptom-free days for you.

 

 

Quote

 

 

Hi Jolene

 

Thanks so much for your post, I really appreciate you taking time to comment 🙂.  I've been thinking on and off about the Brassmonkey technique and perhaps you're right, it's time to give it a go.  I'll see how this latest drop goes and if I don't feel any improvement I'll go for it!

 

I hope you're not suffering too much, from your signature it looks as though you're doing really well. It's a slow old process but worth it, we're getting there 🙂

 

[Momiki]

Hi Mamgu,

 

How's it going? Did the settling of your withdrawal symptoms continue? I hope so!

 

I was just going over the timeline of drops I made, and was indeed surprised with how much I was able to go down in 2020. I went from 10 mg to 1.92 mg! Sounds crazy looking back on it. My progress in 2021 has been a lot less, from 2.2 (I updosed) to 1.4 mg. My rate at the moment is 5% per month, I'm taking it slow. I indeed seem to fare somewhat better than many others on this forum, but I don't think I'll be AD-free for at least a year, possibly two. But indeed, we're getting there.