Greggie: I'm in the midst of ... setback, WD, who knows?

[Greggie]

Today is week 11 for me. I’m feeling great. I’m not 100% better but I’d say my symptoms have reduced by 60-70%. If this is a window, it’s lasted a whole week so far. I’ve had anxiety and a few hard moments, but I’m not letting it take over. I’ve been attending CBT and it’s been doing wonders. My therapist has suggested NOT coming to this site and reading all of the horror stories, and NOT constantly journaling. It’s funny, within days of following this advice, I felt so much better. I felt like I suddenly had a grasp on my recovery. I didn’t feel hopeless and spiralling. I wasn’t focused all day everyday on how I was feeling, I was recovering.

 

is this just a temporary window? Don’t know, and at the moment, don’t care. 

 

If you never ever hear from me again you can assume I have recovered. My four month theory may actually hold water. 

 

There are things I need to work on now. Like my anger issues and the anxiety I tried to drug away. I’m not in denial, I went on these drugs for a reason, and at some point I’ll have to put WD away and deal with that problem, as will you. Relapse post AD treatment is high, these pills don’t cure anything. So although you probably are having some kind of difficulty with AD WD, you need to address the problem for which you started the pills in the first place. You can’t sit around blaming WD for that hoping that one day it will go away when your brain goes back to homeostasis. Deal with WD the same way you’d deal with your anxiety/depression/ocd etc without drugs. Go to therapy, learn some new skills. STOP OBSESSING OVER HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE! It’s hard, I know, trust me, it’s still hard for me, but as soon as I let go I started to make some real progress.

 

and for those of you who find yourself in true protracted WD or extended WD, my heart goes out to you.

 

Please go to therapy, it will help. If you can’t afford it, listen to Claire Weekes, read the DARE response. Get some workbooks and do the exercises. Get comfortable in your discomfort and remember, this too shall pass. You can do it. There is hope. You won’t feel this way forever. 

 

Much love.

 

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Greggie said:

If you never ever hear from me again you can assume I have recovered.

 

I can understand that part of the process of recovery for you is putting this part of your life behind you.

 

However, it would be greatly appreciated if you could post occasionally to let us know how your recovery is going.  You wouldn't need to read anything else on here, just come and post in your own topic.  You could even type it up first and copy and paste it to reduce your time here.

[Greggie]

Week 12.

 

I'm still not completely over WD, I'm grateful for an amazing two week window.

 

Currently dealing with a wave/setback, (since Monday) I know WD is still an issue as I'm still getting weepy from time to time, more so than my pre-drug state. I'd say I'm still feeling about 150% of baseline. I don't mind feeling weepy from time to time, I just wish I didn't have to feel everything else in the 150% spectrum too.

 

I finished my 4th week of CBT this week. My original condition is rearing its ugly head. I had/have a panic disorder (fear of bodily sensations), which apparently is one of the easiest disorders to treat with CBT. I hope they are right, because I'm waaaaaaaay uncomfortable atm.

 

desensitize, desensitize, desensitize.

 

I suspect I still have a month or so of dealing with both WD and my original condition, however, acceptance seems to be the only solution. 

 

Sleep is going well, .75mg melatonin and sleep mask work well. But even after 7.5-8 hrs of sleep I'm exhausted by 6pm.  If I close my eyes during the day and focus on my breathing (4,7,8) I can fall asleep within about 2 min. almost anywhere. (except at bed time)

 

Anyway, I guess I got a bit overzealous when it came to that last post.

 

I hope one day soon you'll stop hearing from me.

 

 

[Greggie]

Week 19. 

 

For the most part I'm feeling pretty good. Been under lots of stress lately, Wife is about to give birth to our first child, trying to finish renovating our new condo before the kid gets here and I was laid off from my job about two weeks ago. These are very stressful times, and somehow, I'm doing okay.

 

I have been getting a nervous feeling in my belly over the past few days, not directly linked to anything I can think of. Probably like a 3 or 4/10, but for the past few weeks I haven't even been thinking about anxiety and WD. When I'm busy working with my hands, I feel fine. When I'm working in front of a computer. I don't feel great. 

 

I'm not saying I'm over WD completely, but almost 5 months off all ADs and things have definitely improved. My windows are getting really long. My waves don't really seem as bad as they were, but I'm looking forward to the days when waves are no longer something I think about.

 

 

[Greggie]

Week 22 feeling good. 

[Greggie]

Happy 2020!
 

Friday will be 9 months for me (fast taper) off SSRIs. 9 months already. Feels like an eternity, but also feels like the blink of an eye. 
 

Everything was going smoothly, I felt I was finally over the panic and anxiety, I felt I was finally done with the withdrawal, but then a few days ago I was hit with panic. I felt tingling in my finger and toes on my left side and even though I was laying down in a position that could have caused those sensations, it triggered me. I had the beginning of a panic attack, (a set back?) I don’t know. It took some time but I got through it in one piece. After that was over, I had the post panic shakes for about 20min. The next day I was on edge. Waiting for it to happen again, but it didn’t. Then yesterday I over-consumed caffeine. I had a coffee then a pre-workout drink then went to the gym, and when I got back home I had another coffee. (Aprox 500mg in 4 hours) I feel like I had done this many time before in the last few weeks but yesterday it sent me spiralling. I was having panic symptoms off and on for most of the day. I made it through, and by the end of the night I was feeling much better, but not great. 
 

Today I can feel that I’m a bit on edge. Wondering if my original condition is returning, wondering if I’m having some late onset withdrawal, wondering, wondering, wondering. I guess it’s time to use those CBT tools again. Just accept and move on. Let panic be there, because it will eventually pass and I will feel good again. 

 

Is this a wave? Was I in a window for the past few months? Those months of clarity and calm were amazing. I want them back.

[Greggie]

Am I imagining that I read someplace that there is a 9 month setback? I fast withdrew from Escitalopram and felt ok, then suffered bad at 6 weeks for a while, then again at 3months. That one lasted for about 6 weeks at which point I really felt like I was on the upswing. Had almost only windows. Then at like 9 months, almost to the day. BAM! Hit hard with a tsunami of a wave. It’s been almost two weeks, with a window day in there and then moments, but it’s like this wave is drowning me.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Greggie, @Greggie

 

It doesn't end at "0"

^ this might be what you were thinking of.

 

And yes, unfortunately......the windows and waves of protracted acute withdrawal syndrome.  It does get better.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Greggie]

Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much for pass it along. 

[Greggie]

Rough days, very rough days. I’ve been having panic attacks, and then constant anxiety for the past two and a half weeks. Is this normal for a WD setback? I was so happy that I was feeling good for 4 months with nothing. And now I feel like this will never end. 
 

help

[Erell]

On 1/15/2020 at 11:38 PM, Greggie said:

. Is this normal for a WD setback? 

In WD, healing journey is made of ups and downs, so yes that sounds normal.

 

Make sure To avoid alcohol, caféine and other drugs. Do a lot of selfcare, rest as much as you can.

 

Healing process can be pretty rough, but the most important thing is that it does get better.

 

I invite you To read some topics here : Windows and waves pattern (In "symptoms and selfcare" section) / and a topic written by Brassmonkey "are de there yet?"

(i'm sorry i'm not on my computer so I cant post you the links)

It Will help you To understand what you're going through. 

 

Stay strong ❤

[Greggie]

19 hours ago, Erell said:

In WD, healing journey is made of ups and downs, so yes that sounds normal.

 

Make sure To avoid alcohol, caféine and other drugs. Do a lot of selfcare, rest as much as you can.

 

Healing process can be pretty rough, but the most important thing is that it does get better.

 

I invite you To read some topics here : Windows and waves pattern (In "symptoms and selfcare" section) / and a topic written by Brassmonkey "are de there yet?"

(i'm sorry i'm not on my computer so I cant post you the links)

It Will help you To understand what you're going through. 

 

Stay strong ❤

thanks for this. I’ve been on the upswing for the past few days, possibly equal windows to waves (we shall see where today goes). I track all of my progress with daily charts, maybe when I’m through this set back I’ll post what my healing process actually looked like. It’s really interesting to see so many peaks and valleys as the days go. One day I’ll be ok the next super anxious the next ok, the next crazy anxiety and so on. Currently I seem to be leveling out. The past two days have sustained at a somewhat tolerable level. I’m hoping it’s a good sign. I’m trying to be optimistic. It’s hard to not let your brain think about how easy it would be to just hop back on some kind of meds to get some relief, but at this point I think it may do more harm than good. 

[Greggie]

Oh man, one day I’m awesome, the next I’m the worst I’ve ever been, the next I’m okay, then I’m awesome again. I keep thinking I’m getting better, then I get nailed with a killer wave, this is exhausting, so very very exhausting. I get the windows and waves idea, but why the heck do you feel so good one day and then like you’re losing your mind the next? Yesterday I was like “Yes! I’m finally on the upswing” and then today I’m like “holy crap I’m back at the very beginning... I’ve made no progress.” Very disheartening. 

[Greggie]

So yesterday was brutal. I was hoping for a good day today, In fact I expected it, but today felt brutal. Here’s the thing though. Today I woke up feeling awesome, I was skeptical, but still felt good. Then around 1 it started to slowly creep over me. What? I don’t know. I’m calling it anxiety... but in all honestly the feeling is indescribable. It slowly over took me like a dark cloud, then in about 3 hours time, I felt okay again. Much more tired and beat down by this journey, but ok. I’m really hoping this 2-5 weeks timeline will apply to me, but I’m coming up on 4 weeks now and there is no end in sight it seems. Feeling very discouraged at this point. I’m started to worry that being on drugs ya be the only way to freedom from debilitating anxiety. 
 

current symptoms:

pounding heart, not fast, just hard

ringing in my ears

around mid afternoon I feel like I’m in ketosis 

breath could kill a dragon in the AM

morning anxiety

intermittent freezing cold hands and feet

Feeling like I have a fever

tired, so tired and heavy

All around exhausted

 

but I’m sleeping better than I have slept in my life... weird.

 

any words of wisdom or encouragement would be great appreciated. 
 

here let me start it off... “It’s okay Greggie, it’s a setback, it should probably pass by tomorrow, I know because I’m the only useful doctor in the world who cares enough to bother trying to figure out what’s wrong with you and not just try to stuff pills down your throat. And I’ve seen this a million times... because I don’t dismiss everything as JUST anxiety.”

 

[Greggie]

9 months and three weeks since quitting Escitalopram fast taper. First 4 months were tough, followed by a pretty good 5 months, then hit with a setback that landed like an atomic bomb at almost exactly 9 months. Dare I call it the worst consistent anxiety I’ve had to date.
 

Everyday, at different times of the day for about 2-3 hours I’m getting hit with anxiety attacks. Hands go freezing, heart starts beating hard... then, when it’s over, I’m exhausted and my head is pounding like I have a hangover. I guess I shouldn’t complain considering the rest of the day is pretty good, but that 2-3 hours is tough. And the hangover levels me. Luckily I’m off work at the moment, unlucky for me I’m not independently wealthy so I’ll have to go back to work and possibly deal with this and a job. I’m trying to change my reaction to it from one of fear to one of acceptance. Some days it works, others I get so mad I wanna smash stuff. 

[Junglechicken]

Hi Greggie,

 

I'm so sorry that you're going through this.

 

Just wanted to let you know that I also have been experiencing the below, which is linked to gut function:

 

"Does anyone else get this weird mouth feeling when anxious? Like you're dehydrated? You tongue feels weird and gross, and gets this awful white coating on it? Maybe I am dehydrated." 

 

I have had this for the past 4 years (at least) and can't remember the last time my tongue was healthy and just pink.

 

TC,

JC

[Greggie]

@Junglechicken I actually found that I was doing a lot of mouth breathing while anxious. What helped me a lot was doing more conscious breathing through the nose.

[Greggie]

Month 10 off of SSRIs.

 

full disclosure, I attempted to start A low dose protocol of TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) for low T about 12 weeks ago. I’m wondering if my set back could be linked to messing with my hormones. I stopped taking the shots about a month ago, but I’m still feeling like garbage. 
 

I think.... and I could be wrong, but I think I’m on the upswing? Man, I find myself being carefully optimistic because I don’t want to jinx it. I hate to say I feeling better sometimes because I feel like there’s this little creature hiding behind my couch and he’s like, “Oh ya? Feeling better are ya?” And then he pounces in me closing the window and surfing the wave. 
 

I actually just got a ferritin blood test and got a 53 ug/L ref 22-275, so I’m thinking maaaaaybe I’m iron deficient? But I’m not off the charts low so I’m not sure if 53 is bad enough to feel terrible. 
 

I feel terrible. I hope to report something positive soon.

[Greggie]

5 1/2 weeks into this set back and there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Like I can feel the light. It’s like a warm sunlight that I feel like I haven’t felt in weeks. I’m not there yet, but it’s like the sun shines through intermittent cracks, and I’m in it. I get different variations of windows. A window is never just a window. Sometimes they’re dirty windows looking out at a grey sky. Sometimes looking out at a blue sky. Sometimes clean windows looking out at the grey sky... sometimes the window is open, a country breeze is blowing and the sun is shining. I had all but forgotten about those windows, those wonderful wonderful windows. But I feel like I’m getting close. Each day the window gets cleaner. Maybe it opens a little bit. One thing is for sure, the waves are getting shorter the tide is going out and the windows are looking cleaner.
 

I can start to appreciate all the terrible feelings I’ve been though when I have the feeling of calm, when I almost feel nothing strange at all... or when I can be with the feelings and not judge them. I allow them to be as they are and not allow them to be so important. That feeling of calm though, it’s wonderful. Without the bitter; the sweet is not as sweet. In recovery I feel like we appreciate life more than those who haven’t been through it. Maybe in a way we are lucky. Maybe not.
 

All of this sounds very optimistic, and it should be. I can see so much progress. I know there will likely be more waves to come, but progress is progress. You can’t deny it. But I’m carefully optimistic, I still need to work on my recovery. That’s the only way to really fully recover, you must see it through until the very end. 
 

When you can finally jump out the window and run down to the ocean and enjoy the warm sun then just into the waves and swim with them, that’s what full recovery must be like. A dream come true. Better than winning the lottery. It’s all I’ve ever wanted since I began this journey. 
 

Please let this be the upswing.

[Greggie]

Day after thanking the universe for finally releasing me from the grips of suffering ... Hours after feeling so optimistic. 

 

BAM! Another wave. A bad wave. 

classic. I wanna smash something.

 

if I was allowed to swear on this site, the only words I would have used for this post would haves started with the later F.

 

 

 

[Greggie]

Window! It was a dirty window, but it was a window nonetheless. 

 

where there are windows, there is hope.

[Erell]

6 hours ago, Greggie said:

Window! It was a dirty window, but it was a window nonetheless. 

 

where there are windows, there is hope.

Yes ! ❤💪

[Carmie]

Yay for windows Greggie🎉🎉🎉

 

Sending hugs🤗

[Greggie]

Spoke too soon. I feel that all hope is lost.

 

im researching going back On drugs at this point. I don’t want to, but I need relief so bad. These ups and downs are making me feel insane. 

 

Doesn’t feel fair. I don’t want to feel like this anymore ... an hour after that last post I had a panic attack and now brutal anxiety, relentless for for the past two days. I Even dream about anxiety so now there is no relief, not even while unconscious. Takes the joy out of life. 

 

 I’m sick of this.
 

 

[Greggie]

my current self talk... 
 

“Let these thoughts come and go. They scare  you, let them scare you. You feel like you can’t cope? Stop trying.

 

What if this is the worst it will get? What if this is all it’s got? What if it can’t get worse than this? If I make it through this, I’ll be able to make it through anything. What if it only feels so bad because last week was so good? What if next week I’ll feel better again? What if this is the last big wave before finally being free? What if I feel so bad because I’ve made so much progress over the past six weeks? What if this is a good sign? What if being slammed this hard is the beginning of the end of my suffering. If I can endure and get stronger and stronger eventually this kind of suffering won’t be a big deal at all. I’ll come through, you must pass through the storm, you can’t give up half way. I need to see this through, I WILL FEEL BETTER ONE DAY SOONER THAN LATER. the storm only has so much wind and rain. Sure it may come back, but there will be sunny days ahead. There always are. Just need to stay the course and get to the other end. Stay strong.”

[Greggie]

Still under this wave. Today was brutal. It’s been brutal non stop since Saturday night. Brutal doesn’t even begin to describe what this feels like. It’s overwhelming to say the least. I’ve never had a wave be this intense and last this long without at least a bit of a window. This feels like no relief. This is undoubtedly the worst I have ever felt. 
 

going into my 7th fricking week Of this “setback”? Or whatever it is... it’s hell. 10.5 months off of all SSRIs and I fear that my journey may come to an end sooner than later. I promised my wife 1 year off before I’d even begin to consider going back, but I don’t know if I’ll survive another 6 weeks like this. 
 

pray for me. 

[jozeff]

How is your situation now greggie?

 

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It's very hard .

I know.

I really hope you will experience some windows very soon.

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

[Greggie]

Hey @jozeff still struggling. Today wasn’t quite as bad as yesterday, but I can feel myself losing hope which is very scary. I’ve never had so many days of waves in a row, not even when I first jumped off almost a year ago... that might not be true, but it feels like it is. I haven’t had a break since last Saturday. I want so badly to make it to the light, but currently I’m feeling like it’s miles away and I’m running out of energy. All I know is that feeling this awful can’t kill me, it just feels like it might. I wish that was more comforting. 
 

thanks for checking in 

[Greggie]

easing up a touch, still not feeling great.

[Greggie]

Deep inner restlessness that comes on every twelve hours or so. Seems like a weird anxiety symptom. Also hands and feet used to get cold, then just feet,  now just one foot... is this a continuation of WD? If so, can I expect this to pass? 

[Snorky]

On 2/20/2020 at 2:04 AM, Greggie said:

Deep inner restlessness that comes on every twelve hours or so. Seems like a weird anxiety symptom. Also hands and feet used to get cold, then just feet,  now just one foot... is this a continuation of WD? If so, can I expect this to pass? 

Hi G

 

Can v much relate to the inner restlessness thing. Mine starts when I wake around 6 and combined with an awful mental tension/tightening feeling. It’s like you’re having to count every second. There’s no relief, including meditation. It’s like the brain just won’t give you a minute’s rest.

 

Good luck and God bless.

[Greggie]

The saga continues. Two months in to this... whatever it is... doctor has advised me to take Ativan for relief as needed to get me through. But through what? What is this?
 

My wife had a baby four months back, we moved to a new city, but not far from our old one, I got laid off, but looks like work may be coming soon, my mother-in-law has moved in with us, we bought a new condo and renovated it... then Christmas came and went, docs had me try Testosterone replacement, I started drinking coffee again and tried fasting... then New Years, then I got hit with this. Could this setback just be a delayed stress response to all that stuff? I mean, it’s a lot, but I thought I was handling it fine... maybe I wasn’t? I guess when I list everything it seems kinda dumb to even ask why I’m resensitized, but before drugs I seemed to handle major stuff like this fine. I wasn’t levelled by panic and anxiety at random times during the day. I’m in CBT... again... hoping that that will help. Last two weeks have been pretty constant in terms of symptoms, not too much in terms of relief. I had a slow decline in symptoms for five weeks and then hit with another wave of symptoms just as bad if not worse out of no where. I was eating a piece of chocolate in my kitchen for heavens sake, then I’m having a panic attack. Gosh! I’m just about at the end of my rope here. I’m seriously thinking of reinstatement, I don’t want to, I really really don’t, but I can’t see an end in sight.
 

Has anyone else been this far along and then gotten hit with something like this?! Can I expect it to pass if I just ride it out?! 

[Greggie]

Okay, so I’ve been SSRI free for about 11 months. The first 4 were tough, then I had a good 5 months of almost all windows. After a bunch of stressors I was hit with some serious anxiety. Panic and whatnot, but the constant anxiety is distressing. My foot is the big problem. It gets super cold for hours then gets warm but has pins and needles for hours. It’s causing lots of my distress and I didn’t have this before drugs, that’s not to say it’s necessarily due to drugs but who knows. Anyhoo, anxiety now through the roof for going on two months. I suspect my foot problem is an anxiety symptom. Question is, is 11 months off and reinstating actually reinstating? Or is it just starting again? I wouldn’t touch Escitalopram because I never levelled out on it. Paroxitine works well for me, but with sides that I don’t like. I wanted to maybe see if sertraline would be a good option. I started SSRIs for panic, I don’t remember anxiety being such an issue before SSRIs, but maybe it was... I suspect it was. 
 

11 months seems like a long time to be off. Also, my doc is a bit hesitant to give me SSRIs at this point. He wants me to take Lorazepam occasionally until this passes. 
 

What are your thoughts?

[Greggie]

Whoops. My mistake. 

[Gridley]

On 2/21/2020 at 11:07 PM, Greggie said:

doctor has advised me to take Ativan for relief as needed to get me through.

Be very careful with Ativan.  Dependence (addiction) wan result within 2 to 4 weeks of regular use and can result from intermittent use.  Once you're dependent, you no longer the original benefit of the drugs and are only staving off withdrawal.

 

On 2/21/2020 at 11:07 PM, Greggie said:

’m seriously thinking of reinstatement, I don’t want to, I really really don’t, but I can’t see an end in sight.

Reinstatement works most predictably within 3 months of last dose.  Reinstating 10 months out would be very risky.  

 

You're having windows and waves and things are slowly improving, though you may not think so.  We don't know how long withdrawal lasts but we do know that it's longer than we would like and that along the way it's going to be very frustrating.  I would stay the course.  You are showing signs of healing, and that's very encouraging.  This link is a good illustration of the up and down process of healing.

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

[Greggie]

Thanks for the reply, I understand the waves and windows but where I’m confused in terms of my situation is a five month window. Does that happen? I felt practically back to normal for five months before getting hit with this wave. Which I guess is what makes it so much worse. I thought it was all over.
 

also when it comes to ativan, I haven’t taken it, In over a year. Even when I did take it, I’ve only taken it once is a blue moon. I’ve had  the same prescription for years, but am always way too afraid to use them regularly. How, if it is necessary, do I take it safely?