Jump to content
Zans

Zans: tapering off 10mg Brintellix - 4 years?

Recommended Posts

Zans

10/16

 

slept maybe 1 hour and spent whole day inside watching movies. Afraid of people, strong resistance to leave house, weak body.

 

12:00 - liquid 5mg Brintellix

 

Not much to write about symptoms since I slep only 1 hour and felt terrible whole day. As long as I watch movies I don't feel mental pain so strongly but such lifestyle makes me misetable in itself. Catch 22 ☺

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata
10 hours ago, Zans said:

The reinstatement made me slightly better

 

A little better is an improvement.

 

On 9/3/2019 at 1:45 PM, Zans said:

So after being on 5mg full August I made cut to 4.5mg on September 1st. Since then can't sleep again and feeling overexcited. In three days I slept maybe 8 hours total. Was doing ok sleep wise prior cut. Is this expected after cut?

 

Your sleep problems date from this premature reduction after only a few months of stabilizing. Getting at least a half-hour a day of gentle exercise such as walking can help, but you can do more to repair your sleep. (If you find more exercise interferes with sleep, you're overdoing it.)

 

Can you get melatonin? That is the hormone that starts the sleep cycle. The normal human sleep cycle is from nightfall to sunrise. Moving your sleep schedule closer to the natural biorhythm reinforces your body's natural pattern.

 

The best use of melatonin to start the sleep cycle is to take it at nightfall. At this time of year, you can call this 9 p.m. Since the natural cycle is triggered by darkness, then you'd turn off all the lights and get off all computers. You don't have to get into bed right then, you might try going to bed at 10 p.m. or 11 p.m. in a very dark, cool bedroom. Then you get up at maybe 8 a.m. and be sure to go out and get some natural light on your face and body. This helps reset the sleep cycle.

 

See What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Severe major depression cannot be diagnosed in the context of adverse drug reaction. You don't develop endogenous depression in withdrawal syndrome.

 

Please note you cold-turkeyed a batch of psychiatric drugs about 5 months ago. Five months of withdrawal syndrome is not a very long time, you probably have many more months to go. You'll need to stay calm and realistic throughout the process, as it tends to be very gradual and frustrating.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Zans
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 10:25 PM, Altostrata said:

 

A little better is an improvement.

 

 

Your sleep problems date from this premature reduction after only a few months of stabilizing. Getting at least a half-hour a day of gentle exercise such as walking can help, but you can do more to repair your sleep. (If you find more exercise interferes with sleep, you're overdoing it.)

 

Can you get melatonin? That is the hormone that starts the sleep cycle. The normal human sleep cycle is from nightfall to sunrise. Moving your sleep schedule closer to the natural biorhythm reinforces your body's natural pattern.

 

The best use of melatonin to start the sleep cycle is to take it at nightfall. At this time of year, you can call this 9 p.m. Since the natural cycle is triggered by darkness, then you'd turn off all the lights and get off all computers. You don't have to get into bed right then, you might try going to bed at 10 p.m. or 11 p.m. in a very dark, cool bedroom. Then you get up at maybe 8 a.m. and be sure to go out and get some natural light on your face and body. This helps reset the sleep cycle.

 

See What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Severe major depression cannot be diagnosed in the context of adverse drug reaction. You don't develop endogenous depression in withdrawal syndrome.

 

Please note you cold-turkeyed a batch of psychiatric drugs about 5 months ago. Five months of withdrawal syndrome is not a very long time, you probably have many more months to go. You'll need to stay calm and realistic throughout the process, as it tends to be very gradual and frustrating.

 

I can get melatonin but from what I understand about melatonin it is for kickstarting sleep correct? It is responsible for introduction part of the sleep (yawning, getting sleepy, etc) not necceserily for carrying you troughout whole night. If that's so I don't have hard time to feeling sleepy on evenings (I assume getting sleepy when it's dark is body releasing melatonin?) it's the maintaining sleep once I zone out for first half hour or so. Hope that makes sense.

 

Yes, indeed it's surreal and frustrating process. Watching time pass by ☺ I probably have to stay on 5mg now until my sleep returns even if that means multiple months in the row?

 

Thank you for your time and kindness.

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata
8 hours ago, Zans said:

I can get melatonin but from what I understand about melatonin it is for kickstarting sleep correct?

 

That is correct. Melatonin helps send a signal to your body to start the sleep cycle. Adding a little melatonin (0.25mg might be sufficient) at nightfall may reinforce your natural sleep cycle, keeping you sleeping longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Zans

Didn't update separate days as the symptoms stays pretty much same:

 

11-3am is usually sleep. After that I toss around with some zoning in and out for brief periods of time. Dreams becoming less horrific and more friendly.

 

8/9am - 12 is moderate to severe depression which I could not take it last days anymore and made myself a coffee. This is often miss or hit but once I do hit, depression and fear of meeting people/going out lifts up a bit. Usually it means no sleep at all also but I managed to sleep last days for 4 hours.

 

12am I drink this bitter tasting liquid and start listening weird sounds my stoamach starts to make with any type of food being put inside. Then usually depression slightly worsens and it becoms battle to dragging myself out. I walked around 10km in sinlight yesterday again but felt as if I slicing through surreal LSD alike environment. Shapes are blurry, colours pale and overall it is if I'd taking toxin filled shower.

 

Brain is almost never produce idea, spark of creativity or inspirational thought. Pure robotic motion as in "turn left", "lets go home", "lets eat" fashion.

 

from 4-9 I hide inside phone watching various videos or movies as anything outside of it my body resists with apathy or slimpy have no idea what else I actually could be doing. Officially addicted to youtube ☺

 

10 - attempting to sleep but lying there for good hour with intrusive thoughts of "how I messed up".

 

Today I had short chat with friend who have some health issues main symptom being severe migraine. Doctors treating her in stages.

 

Stage 1 - magnesium and Vit D

Stage 2 - addition of some new AD

Stage 3 - addition of epilepsy meds.

 

Another friend been hospitalized 3rd time this year. Supposedly he's schizophrenic and been on injections for 10 years. He's looking and doing awfully. I inquired whether hospitalization was due psychosis but he said panick and general weakness. Side effects of AP's?

 

In all these cases I'd like to state my opinion but everytime I refuse because how do I know that a guy won't start hearing voices that tells to kill himself and lady who has daughter and husband won't be able to function due to debilitating migraine.

 

Plus my own situation is not so inspiring to be handling advices of such caliber. 

Share this post


Link to post
eymen23

Zans,

 

I understand how you feel about your friends’ situations and wanting to tell them the ‘truth’. I have a very good friend who has been moved slowly up to 200mg of Zoloft for OCD and sadly is only getting worse, whilst also being offered a tricyclic antidepressant to add in! 
 

My experience is that people tend to do what they think is best and will often be closed off to advice that goes against their current beliefs and/or opinions. I find it’s best to offer your experience and opinion, only when one asks you for it or when you very gently make a suggestion during a time of crisis. 
 

Also, we never truly know how these drugs are experienced by others. I couldn’t tolerate 5mg of Escitalopram, but my friend seems to have no significant side effects from 200mg of Zoloft. Some people find relief, some people feel no real change and some go downhill quickly. 
 

Edited by eymen23

Share this post


Link to post
Zans
2 hours ago, eymen23 said:

Zans,

 

I understand how you feel about your friends’ situations and wanting to tell them the ‘truth’. I have a very good friend who has been moved slowly up to 200mg of Zoloft for OCD and sadly is only getting worse, whilst also being offered a tricyclic antidepressant to add in! 
 

My experience is that people tend to do what they think is best and will often be closed off to advice that goes against their current beliefs and/or opinions. I find it’s best to offer your experience and opinion, only when one asks you for it or when you very gently make a suggestion during a time of crisis. 
 

Also, we never truly know how these drugs are experienced by others. I couldn’t tolerate 5mg of Escitalopram, but my friend seems to have no significant side effects from 200mg of Zoloft. Some people find relief, some people feel no real change and some go downhill quickly. 
 

It is true that each body - mind is unique in how it responds to these meds but regardless end game is the same even for most resiliant right? At some point "poop out" appears, dose must be changed or another med introduced. Regardless over time one gets progressively worse health wise even if medication is "working". I mean it's almost as racing against clock until results catch up.

 

Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps there are people quite healthy and happy after being multiple years on this stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Zans

So first time after September 1st I have some sort of a window. Depression is there but it's more like a strong blues and feels more organic, something that is possible to deal with. Thoughts about death doesn't come as a relief. There is want to stick around rather.

 

Appetite more natural. I feel pleasure from eating. Some level of confidence is there. Navigating supermarket inside crowd of people was relatively easy. 

 

Most importantly feeling of "me" cameback. I was on autopilot and it felt as just empty body shufling without aim. Now I stopped for awhile to enjoy fullness and wholness inside the body. Substance instead of emptyness. My mind became alive again. Like I regained normal thinking patterns. Planning, reasoning, creative thoughts filled what was hollow area before.

 

My stamina is fine again. Breathing smooth and through nose. I don't afraid of people, places and wouldn't mind to meet somebody. Urge to burry myself with escapisms such as binge movie watching weaker as well.

 

It's only half a day like this but I take this as a positive sign. Perhaps future will bring even better results.

 

Strength to all!

Share this post


Link to post
eymen23

Zans,

 

That’s very encouraging to hear and it shows the benefits of holding steady on dosages. Hopefully you will start to get more hours and days like this, albeit punctuated with times of more difficult and intense symptoms. 

Share this post


Link to post
Zans
11 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

Zans,

 

That’s very encouraging to hear and it shows the benefits of holding steady on dosages. Hopefully you will start to get more hours and days like this, albeit punctuated with times of more difficult and intense symptoms. 

I hope so too. When do you think is wise to attempt a cut? I have no clue how much time nerves need to stabilize so that a cut wouldn't be another earthquake.

Share this post


Link to post
eymen23
4 minutes ago, Zans said:

I hope so too. When do you think is wise to attempt a cut? I have no clue how much time nerves need to stabilize so that a cut wouldn't be another earthquake.


It’s always difficult to predict, but given the severity of your recent symptoms and previous changes, I would suggest holding for 3-4 months as a minimum. 
 

Once we are in a window it’s easy to feel like we are in the ‘all clear’, but really we are waiting for what we call ‘withdrawal normal’, where symptoms are consistent, predictable and tolerable. 
 

This excellent explanation by Brassmonkey should give you a better idea of how you should feel before attempting to taper again.

 

 

Edited by eymen23

Share this post


Link to post
Gemma92

Hi Zans, just dropping by to give you my support. I am glad you are doing better after being on all of those drugs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Zans
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:07 PM, Gemma92 said:

Hi Zans, just dropping by to give you my support. I am glad you are doing better after being on all of those drugs. 

Thanks!

 

We'll make it sooner or later ☺

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Zans
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:07 PM, Gemma92 said:

So things been going relatively ok. My sleep is still cheap quality but I feel fine throughout the day. Met some friends. I was surprised that as I became more comfortable I was able to engage in conversations using reasoning and creativity. I went deeper then I expected which showed that brain slowly emerging from mashed potatoe state. During my first window it wasn't the case.

What I noticed though that after I swallow devil drops (Brintellix) I feel slightly nauseous but more importantly my breathing changes. I am unable to nose breath anymore and mouth breathing takes over. Mouth breathing is happening when body is stressed so it obvious now that what I am consuming for health reasons actually destroying my health gradually.

 

I'd like to make cut on January first. Thats going to be 4 months after last cut and 2.5 months after stableizing. Would that be a good idea?

Share this post


Link to post
Zans

Some bug happened with post. Didn't intend to qoute. Qouted part is also mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Zans

So I visited my psychiatrist today. She gave Hamilton depression test again and I scored very low. She looked at me and told:

 

"You're doing good. I think in two months we can take you off meds". 

 

I started thinking what "taking off" in her vocabulary means and suspect it's some rapid taper stuff. At first I though faking test scale next time I come to have high score for depression but just told her I want to use meds onwards.

 

"That's very good". It will serve as prevention", she replied.

 

Later on she also warned me:

"By the way you must drink your meds daily. Antidepressant is not like Xanax or smth which you can just stop taking".

 

I just nodded head and went thinking how much misinformation for 8 years of study. At least job pays well.

Share this post


Link to post
Zans

This condition that we're in is ultimatr confusion of what works and what doesn't.

 

Recently I discovered Buteyko breathing. Did a lot of reading and was stoked about claims that it takes care of most conditions. Insomnia, depression and overall autonomic dysfunction.

 

I purchased this tool called Frolov device. You breath through the tube with some water for resistance and that way CO2 increases in your body which helps with oxygenation.

 

During the day I feel more energy, calmness and positive outlook yet it makes me amped up at night and I usually sleep hour or two.

 

Damn I thought I discovered holy grain. So many people swear by this method.

 

So I am left with walking and some coffee as tools for mood. 

Share this post


Link to post
Benzhelp

Hi Zans, 

So glad to hear you are finding ways to manage symptoms. Hope you find them successful. I have not heard of some of these, so thanks for sharing. 

Walking and coffee are great simple and effective tools.  : )

Wishing you the very Best on your Tapering Journey,  Zans. 

Peace, Light and Love <3

Share this post


Link to post
Zans
20 hours ago, Benzhelp said:

Hi Zans, 

So glad to hear you are finding ways to manage symptoms. Hope you find them successful. I have not heard of some of these, so thanks for sharing. 

Walking and coffee are great simple and effective tools.  : )

Wishing you the very Best on your Tapering Journey,  Zans. 

Peace, Light and Love <3

Thanks!

 

Sending all the good stuff back at you 

Share this post


Link to post
Zans

Slept horrible again but surprisingly feel fine and pro life. I've been averaging around 3 hours of walking outside lately and it's been most effective SSRI hands down.

 

During these occassional moments of freshness I reflect on times when I was happiest in my life. Aside spending summers at grandma's place as I child the closest to a flow I was when I worked physicaly. Something about dumb straightforwardness, body freedom and movement throughout a day that made me feel "in the zone" for some time.

 

For whatever reason I was slightly ashamed of that. I thought life holds some deeper meaning and there is some special personal potential that I suppose to unlock. I actually tried numerous activities during self search. Yet in my case it was as simple as cycling to job, loading on coffee and carrying boxes lol. I was simply playing, that thing that we suppose to do in life.

 

I don't know how much I will recover physically but once I am able I'd like to have light - moderate intensity manual labor preferably outside, ideally somewhere in nature. That's my number one item on a bucket list. And I did skydiving ☺

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Zans

Is there any info on forum by how much liquid dosing could be inacurrate? I see people being concerned and thinking of moving to scales. Honestly I don't understand how scale could be more precise unless we're talking about lab scales which aren't really cheap.

 

Would appreciate link or some plain info if somebody knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Zans

I was adviced to hold now for 3-4 months now before making a cut. While I am not arguing against such advice I am still going to attempt cut on December 1st. I will try 2.5% approach though.

 Reason I changed my mind is because I think much of my wave from last cut been amplified due to overdoing with carbon dioxide. I've been withdrawal stable but been again playing carefully with this reduced breathing concept. Right amount of CO2 seems to significantly improve my mood, energy and zest for life. Too much of it and I am very restless, irritable but also sluggish. Case of tired but wired. It's really confusing to dose it correctly. Last time I didn't connect the dots so continued to do breathing sessions while at the same time making a cut. That landed me in very bad state.

 

So that's my reasoning. Other than that I've been fine as fine one can be during these times. 

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy