InChristAlone

[InChristAlone]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Do you feel you're in a place of Withdrawal Normal? If so, you may want to try a very slight 3 or 5% reduction from the benzo just to gage where you are. I know you're in a hurry to get off, but let's place functionality as a priority, not speed

 

It’s hard to say right now. I had a pretty nice two week window. I felt pretty decent. I started to feel a wave come on Saturday and felt pretty terrible yesterday. 

[InChristAlone]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

o you feel you're in a place of Withdrawal Normal? If so, you may want to try a very slight 3 or 5% reduction from the benzo just to gage where you are. I know you're in a hurry to get off, but let's place functionality as a priority, not speed

 

Its hard for me to say. I had a pretty decent two weeks, but felt a wave coming on Saturday. I didn’t feel good at all yesterday. Felt like it was the worst I’ve ever felt, but that’s just my emotions being dramatic. I go back to work tomorrow after an 8-week summer vacation, which is a little rough on your emotions in a normal state, so that may be effecting me. 🤷‍♂️

 

Sorry for responding twice. I didn’t think I submitted the first. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by InChristAlone

[Shep]

22 hours ago, InChristAlone said:

I go back to work tomorrow after an 8-week summer vacation, which is a little rough on your emotions in a normal state, so that may be effecting me. 🤷‍♂️

 

That would definitely affect you and, as you wisely note, even those in a normal state. I would hold for at least a month as you adjust to being back at work.

 

Please hold long enough to really get a good feel for your baseline with the additional stressors of a work day in play now. 

 

[Altostrata]

On 7/28/2019 at 5:43 PM, Shep said:

 

I'm suspecting the benzo, too InChrist.

 

You may want to come off your morning Klonopin dose first. The only issue would be if you're a fast metabolizer, you may have some issues with interdose withdrawal. 

 

Please post your thoughts and I'll report your thread to get Alto's input, as well. 

 

 

 

Makes sense to me to reduce Klonopin due to the apparent side effects. I'd try slightly reducing the morning dose first. Klonopin has a long enough half-life for coverage even if the morning dose is a little lower than the nighttime dose. It may very well be you can gradually lower the morning dose to a fraction of its current level, which may reduce side effects overall and not cause withdrawal.

 

Throughout the tapering process, please keep daily notes of of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

We strongly recommend changing only one drug at a time. If you're lowering Nexium, wait until that taper is done before changing Klonopin dosing.

[InChristAlone]

I’ve felt human two days in a row. Mostly clear mind and pretty normal vision. Not depressed or anxious. Best I’ve felt in a while. I hope it lasts a little while. Hard not to dread a wave in the near future, but it has to be a good sign of progress. Going back to work and getting on a routine may help. 

[RichT]

5 hours ago, InChristAlone said:

I’ve felt human two days in a row. Mostly clear mind and pretty normal vision. Not depressed or anxious. Best I’ve felt in a while. I hope it lasts a little while. Hard not to dread a wave in the near future, but it has to be a good sign of progress. Going back to work and getting on a routine may help. 

 

That’s Wonderful news! And a great sign of recovery.

 

R

[InChristAlone]

Last couple of days haven’t been as good. I’ve felt a little down and nervous on and off throughout the day and to various degrees. I don’t know if this is withdrawal normal for me. I function ok and most wouldn’t know anything was wrong.

[InChristAlone]

Started my Effexor taper today. Took out 30 beads. This puts me at about 138mg (slightly less than a 10% cut.) I decided to hold my .25mg Klonopin and go for cutting Effexor first. Does this seem like a good plan? I fear long term issues from the Benzo, but I’m beginning to believe Benzo are no worse than SSRIs and SSRNIs. They are both poisons that I want rid of. I’m far from normal, but I’ve been making it and having good windows and mostly minor waves. 

[Gridley]

4 minutes ago, InChristAlone said:

I decided to hole my .25mg Klonopin and go for cutting Effexor first. Does this seem like a good plan?

 

Yes, that is what we recommend--that you taper the activating (stimulating) drug, which includes SSRIs and SNRIs, while continuing the sedating drug, such as benzos, to act as a buffer against WD symptoms to be tapered later.

[InChristAlone]

I had some eye twitching yesterday and today. As of late, even before Effexor cut, midday has been when I have my worst emotional issues. It used to always be the morning. 🤷‍♂️

 

Also, my digestive system has changed quite a bit or the last couple months. I’m guessing it is a withdrawal symptom. Hoping so anyway. 

 

I have ave moments where I just have to tell myself to have faith and the process will play itself out. 

 

Overall Im better than a year and half ago, but I hope there is a lot more progress to be made. My mind and emotions want to convince me that this is the best I’ll ever feel. 

[Shep]

16 hours ago, InChristAlone said:

Also, my digestive system has changed quite a bit or the last couple months. I’m guessing it is a withdrawal symptom. Hoping so anyway. 

 

If you're getting upticks in GI symptoms, you may want to stick to a diet that's low in sugar and eliminate caffeine and processed foods. Eating small meals and snacks throughout the day to keep your blood sugar level can be helpful, as well.

 

Digestive problems: nausea, diarrhoea, bloating, GERD

 

The Beyond Meds site also has some good articles:

 

Beyond Meds - Gut Health archives

 

Some people go on eliminate diets if the symptoms are severe.

 

Eat as clean as you can and remember to get plenty of water each day.

[InChristAlone]

Can anyone share a link to someone who had vision issues that improved with time? Thanks.

[Shep]

For information on visual issues during withdrawal, please see:

 

Vision symptoms: floaters, snow, blurred/dimmed vision, twitching, dry eyes and pain

 

For a success story with this symptom (and many others), you may want to have a read of Pug's story. He's healed from this symptom (and many others) now: 

 

Pug: Your miracle is coming, hang on!

 

[InChristAlone]

Thanks Shep....

 

Having my worst wave in a while. Still feel like I’ve improved, but it’s still not fun. These days make me feel like withdrawal isn’t real, and that’s i really just have a severe anxiety and depression problem. How does the kind do that? 🤷‍♂️

[InChristAlone]

Hey, I hope everybody is doing well and hanging in there. I am now entering my busy season. I coach middle school basketball. I am noticing I am not as patient as I need to be right now. Does anyone see any harm in holding my tapering for the next three or four months. 

As you can see in my signature I tried to speed things along and I made cuts to Klonopin and Effexor last month. I did this about 3-weeks a part. It was clearly too much for my system to handle. I’ve caused myself some unpleasant symptoms, but anyway. Thanks for advice on my question.

[InChristAlone]

Also, does anyone know of any research of showing the brain healing after antidepressant withdrawal? 

[Shep]

20 hours ago, InChristAlone said:

Does anyone see any harm in holding my tapering for the next three or four months. 

 

That's a great idea, InChrist. We are fans of long holds here. 

 

20 hours ago, InChristAlone said:

As you can see in my signature I tried to speed things along and I made cuts to Klonopin and Effexor last month. I did this about 3-weeks a part. It was clearly too much for my system to handle. I’ve caused myself some unpleasant symptoms, but anyway. Thanks for advice on my question.

 

What "unpleasant symptoms" did you experience? 

 

The main reason you mentioned wanting to come off the Klonopin prior to coming off the Effexor was due to vision issues. Did you notice a change in your vision with the reduced Klonopin? 

 

 

18 hours ago, InChristAlone said:

Also, does anyone know of any research of showing the brain healing after antidepressant withdrawal? 

 

The best evidence we have of healing comes from the Success Stories section.

 

[InChristAlone]

Thanks again Shep. I think a hold of at least a couple months is needed for me.

 

My vision issues seem to come and go with about the same intensity and have been for quite a while now. The unpleasant symptoms I referred to that have been pretty bad lately are: major brain fog, terrible short-term memory, headaches, and feeling really irritable. These symptoms would have sent me into panic attacks a year ago. Now I’m better equipped to just accept them and make it through the day. 

 

I’ve been reading quite a bit of research of late and was just wishing to see more research done on people who had went through the withdrawal process. I saw some brain scans of MRIs of people who were taking SSRIs vs those who never had, and I thought it would be interesting to see scans of those in withdrawal or close to recovering. The success stories on this site are definitely enough proof to keep me pushing ahead. I know we all have a good future if we hang on and get through this process. 

[InChristAlone]

Been hit with the post lunch blues, brain fog, and fatigue all week this week. I’m thinking it’s a wave, but some of it may be effects of having last week off for fall break. I’m also entering my busiest time of year at work. Sometimes I don’t feel up to doing my job, but I keep pushing along. 

[Shep]

15 hours ago, InChristAlone said:

My vision has been bother me since I went into poopout on Lexapro almost 2 years ago.

 

InChrist, I just want to double-check something. I saw this post over on Brassmonkey's thread and wanted to clarify if you think your vision problems are Lexapro or benzo related.

 

The reason I'm concerned is it's possible that some of your recent upticks in symptoms may be from tapering both of these drugs at once. Since you were tapering the benzo for vision issues, if this is truly Lexapro related, I would hold the benzo steady until you are completely off your current AD, Effexor.

 

I noticed that you came off Lexapro in June 2018 but didn't even start Klonopin until August 2018, so the timing there would suggest it had more to do with Lexapro. 

 

The fact that the vision symptoms come and go is a sign that it's related to these drugs, as you've suspected all along. This is a good sign that your vision symptoms will heal along with the other symptoms. 
 

Quote

 

Effexor: August 2018 150mg. Sept. 2019 139 mg. Oct. 2019 122mg

Klonopin: August 2018 2mg daily. April 2019 began taper. June 2019 .25mg. Sept. 2019. 0.2mg.

 

 

This is from your signature. 

 

For your Effexor taper, you went from 122 mg to 139 mg in one month, which is a 12.23% reduction. 

 

For your Klonopin taper, you went from .25 mg to .2 mg in 3 months, which 20% or 6.67% per month. 

 

So your current uptick in symptoms may be from the Effexor taper at 12.23%, which is faster than the 10% per month we recommend (calculated on the last dose, not the original dose). Or it may be from tapering both drugs at once. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this. 

[InChristAlone]

Shep, I am not completely sure the root cause of the vision issues. I remember when this all began for me that everything seemed darker an less sharp in my vision. At the time, I thought I was depressed or having a nervous breakdown. Now I think I had reached a level of poopout from Lexapro. What led me to think the vision problems were caused by Klonopin was that I started have depth-perception problems when I started taking it. But I guess that doesn’t make sense since I was having them before. 
 

I definitely messed up by tapering so much Effexor and tapering the Klonopin at the same time. It seems like I feel good for a week and convince myself I can handle bigger cuts. Patience is not a strong suit of mine, but I’m trying to learn. 
 

Im beginning to see how much the Lexapro effected me during the time I was on it. My short term memory has been bad for a while now. Also, I have been tired all the time for going on almost ten years now. In my mind it was just that I was getting older. Now I think my body was being altered by me constantly putting the chemical into it. So frustrating to just now realize that and to know it is going to be a long battle with gradual progress to get back to being me minus the chemicals. 
 

On a positive note, at least I can rid myself of it and find myself again. My faith that this is and was God’s plan for my life brings me peace at times when I don’t know how to press forward. 
 

Thank you for the support, Shep and all of SA!

[InChristAlone]

For the majority of the time I’ve struggled the morning has been the worst. Lately, right after lunch from around 12:30-6ish is when I feel bad. I usually feel great at night. Anybody have insight to the change from morning to afternoon as the worst time of day for me.

 

Also, for my record, I had a really good window this weekend. 

[Altostrata]

What times of day do you take your drugs, at what dosages?

[InChristAlone]

I take 122mg of Effexor at 6:30 am. I take 0.1mg of Klonopin at 6:30 am and at 6:30 pm. I thought maybe it has to do with the Klonopin, but I also know it stays in the system a long time. I take my Zyrtec and Nexium at 6:30 am also. 
 

this hasn’t changed in probably 6 months, but the time of day of my worst symptoms seemed to shift from morning to afternoon in August. 

[Altostrata]

Please put ALL your current drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php 
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

[InChristAlone]

Drug Interaction Report

This report displays the potential drug interactions for the following 4 drugs:

• Effexor XR (venlafaxine)
• Zyrtec (cetirizine)
• Nexium (esomeprazole)
• Klonopin (clonazepam

Major (0)

 

Moderate (3)

 

Minor (0)

Food (3)

 

Therapeutic Duplication (0)

Interactions between your drugs

Moderate

clonazePAM venlafaxine

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Effexor XR (venlafaxine)

Using clonazePAM together with venlafaxine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate

clonazePAM cetirizine

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Zyrtec (cetirizine)

Using cetirizine together with clonazePAMmay increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid driving, operating machinery, or engaging in potentially hazardous activities requiring mental alertness and motor coordination until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate

venlafaxine cetirizine

Applies to: Effexor XR (venlafaxine), Zyrtec (cetirizine)

Using cetirizine together with venlafaxinemay increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid driving, operating machinery, or engaging in potentially hazardous activities requiring mental alertness and motor coordination until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

 

No other interactions were found between your selected drugs. This does not necessarily mean no other interactions exist. Always consult your healthcare provider.

Drug and food interactions

Moderate

venlafaxine  food

Applies to: Effexor XR (venlafaxine)

Alcohol can increase the nervous system side effects of venlafaxine such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with venlafaxine. Do not use more than the recommended dose of venlafaxine, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions or concerns.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate

cetirizine  food

Applies to: Zyrtec (cetirizine)

Alcohol can increase the nervous system side effects of cetirizine such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with cetirizine. Do not use more than the recommended dose of cetirizine, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions or concerns.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate

esomeprazole  food

Applies to: Nexium (esomeprazole)

Food may interfere with the absorption of esomeprazole. Esomeprazole should be taken at least one hour before meals and at the same time every day. When esomeprazole is given to patients receiving continuous enteral nutrition (tube feedings), the tube feeding should be interrupted for at least 1 hour before and 1 hour after the dose of esomeprazole. This will make it easier for your body to absorb the medication. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[Altostrata]

Do you feel "dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating" from around 12:30-6ish?

[InChristAlone]

Yes, I do to some extent. I have also been feeling a little depressed during during that time. This is usually when my vision issues act up. I was wondering if it could be work-related or fatigue related. Feeling depressed is what has been bothering me the most. 

[InChristAlone]

Today, I set here wondering how I would have felt if I’d never been prescribed Effexor and Klonopin to deal with what I now believe was Lexapro poopout. I’d be nearing at least a year and a half off of Lexapro. I wonder how much I was setback by my dr prescribing me a extra meds to deal with a problem caused by meds. I’m not frustrated, and I have no anger. I’m just curious. I feel this journey will eventually make me a stronger person. I don’t believe this happened by chance. It amazes me that our society has now decided to drug away any unpleasant emotion. I can’t believe I once bought into that idea. 
 

Just my thoughts today. Thank you to anyone who has provided me support. Anyone reading this who is hurting, just hang in there. Each day is a step in the right direction. Some steps are harder, but keep moving forward. 

[InChristAlone]

I’m going to ask a question today that there may not be a good answer to, but here it is. Since I went into Lexapro poopout, and then was put on Effexor and Klonopin, how does this effect my recovery process. I mean, what have we seen in people who are in poopout on an ssri and then placed on a snri and benzo? I’m kind of wondering what my body is going through. I am experiencing withdrawal normal, so I don’t feel all that bad today. Just curious again. Thanks for any insights. 

[Shep]

Many people here have been switched around multiple drugs, so you'll find plenty of examples just by reading the various intro threads of people dealing with multiple drugs. It's your basic nervous system dysregulation. These threads may help:

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain - about antidepressants

 

What is happening in your brain? -  about benzos

[InChristAlone]

Thanks Shep!

[InChristAlone]

Still feeling pretty good in the morning and good at night. Midday is rough. 

[InChristAlone]

Felt mostly good 75-80% of the time since my last post. So, it’s been a pretty good week and a half. There is always hope!

[Shep]

Another great update, InChrist. 

[InChristAlone]

I cut my Effexor from 122mg to 112mg yesterday. I have felt anxious and depressed more the last couple days than I have felt in the previous month, but I’m fighting on. I’m tired of putting the meds into my body. I’m ready to be done with them. Patience is tough.