evertonfan: mirtazapine / Remeron discontinuation

[ChessieCat]

10 minutes ago, evertonfan said:

I appreciate this decision is not in line with the strongly anti-drug viewpoint expressed by moderators and admistrators on here.

 

SA provides information so that members can make an informed decision.  It is an individual member's decision about whether to stay on, reduce or get off a drug.

 

SA's philosophy:

 

On 3/17/2011 at 11:02 AM, Altostrata said:

Taking a harm reduction approach to psychiatric drugs, we recommend reducing your dosage to the lowest effective dose for you, minimizing your drug burden for the sake of your general health. Many will continue to wean off psychiatric drugs entirely.

[evertonfan]

Thanks for the clarification, ChessieCat.

 

 I am certainly not going to allow myself to be on high doses again.

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 7/21/2019 at 11:12 AM, Altostrata said:

On the other hand, you might take more of your psychiatrist's advice and whip up another drug cocktail for yourself to treat withdrawal symptoms from mirtazapine. Your choice.

 

Good luck with your ongoing drug treatment.

[eymen23]

Evertonfan,

 

You do not have to justify your decision to us (or indeed anybody). If you feel that drugs have helped you in the past and are the best solution going forwards, then we wish you the best of luck. 

 

Nevertheless, this is a site that helps members taper their psychiatric drugs. We simply don’t have time to offer our resources to those that wish to take new drugs, nor are we medically qualified to do so. It is nothing more personal than that. 

[evertonfan]

Thanks very much for your explanations. I did take the Prozac yesterday and I do believe that it has gone some way towards diminishing the symptoms. Only time will tell.

 

It was actually my idea to go on the Prozac now not the psychiatrist’s.  I found a number of sites which suggested that going to a drug with a long half life might actually alleviate the severe symptoms that I have been experiencing for over two months.

 

I also took the Zopiclone last night and for the first time in quite some time I was able to sleep well. I am of course only too aware that this drug is highly addictive. Therefore I am going to take it with caution. Tonight I’m going to use only half a tablet and probably after that use it only sporadically. 

 

Thanks again for all your help and consideration.

 

Everton fan.

[Shebon]

Everton:  Please be aware that one builds tolerance to Zopiclone very quickly.   I came off ativan and zopiclone with a bridge over to diazepam over eight years ago.  

 

Best regards,

Shebon 

[evertonfan]

Thanks Shebon.

 

I am only too aware of the dangers of Zopiclone addiction.  It is one of those situations at present which is, "Which is the greater evil?" Because the withdrawal symptoms are so intense, I was simply not sleeping or at very best getting a couple of hours then awakening at very early hours stranded with severe burning throughout my body. Having had some sleep the last two nights, I have coped better. So I will keep taking it but try very hard to take as little as possible for as short a time as I can.

 

The trial with 20 mgs of Prozac has been a failure. I have nasty stomach cramps now much the same as when I was on Lexapro last year. I have decided to stop the Prozac because it is not assisting me with the burning and I don't want  to build up a dependency on this drug which may result in even more withdrawal symptoms.

 

This is a typical psychiatric drug situation when one is taking drugs to counteract the effect of other drugs.

 

If and when I recover from this experience, I will think long and hard about whether or not to take psychiatric drugs again. 

 

The concern for me is that I have had a number of bouts of major depression which have come out of nowhere and I feel (or at least I have been told) that an antidepressant may help me ward off another one. But finding one that doesn't give me side-effects is going to be very difficult.

 

At the moment, however, that is very much a thing to worry about in the future; the main issue for me now is how to survive this unbelievable withdrawal.

 

Best wishes,

 

Evertonfan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

You still have the option of reinstating a small amount of mirtazapine, which might be a better choice than the Zopliclone.

[evertonfan]

The Zopiclone has given me sleep over the last three nights, ChessieCat. As a result, I am in a better state to cope with the misery of these terrible symptoms. I took 7.5 mg for the three nights. I had commitments on each of the days after I took a sleeping tablet and I felt it was necessary to function properly.

 

However, as it is now the weekend coming up I will only take 3.7 mg for the next two nights and hope that that will give me sufficient sleep. I am very very very very aware  about how addictive Zopiclone is. My intention is to be on it for a shorter time as possible. However the severity of the symptoms I’m enduring at the moment make it impossible for me to sleep without the assistance of something.

 

And it is now over 2 1/2 weeks since I stopped on the Mirtazapine and I don’t really want to reinstate it. The process of withdrawal has started and I don’t want to interrupt it in anyway.

 

I did try taking Prozac for three days in the hope that the presence of another antidepressant would help the symptoms. It didn’t and it gave me stomach cramps. I then came to the conclusion that it wasn’t a good idea to introduce another antidepressant into the mix which may very well lead to evenmore dependency on yet another drug so I’ve decided to stop it. 

 

I do remain extremely concerned about the way in which the psychiatrist prescribed such huge doses of Lexapro and mirtazapine. I now know that Mirtazapine has such a short half life that the kind of thing that happened to me shouldn’t be at all surprisingly. It’s all very well and good knowing this after the fact however.

 

I really do appreciate the fact that you keep giving me advice on this site. I’m sorry if I don’t take it a lot of the time but the encouragement is still invaluable and it keeps me alert to the fact that drugs like Prozac and  Zopiclone which I have been on this week come with their own serious problems.

 

Best wishes,

 

Everton fan.

[eymen23]

Evertonfan,

 

You note that you don’t want to interrupt the process of Mirtazapine withdrawal but subsequently you have trialled a weighty dose of Prozac and are currently using a sedative with similar effects to benzodiazepines.

 

If you are concerned about having commitments that you need to sleep well for, you might want to strongly consider reinstating an amount of Mirtazapine as we have already suggested, because protracted withdrawal from an extremely large dose has the potential to leave you in a much worse state. 

 

By trialling different drugs in the meantime, you are only furthering the risk of nervous system destabilisation. 

 

I would suggest you think long and hard about what you hope to achieve in regards to your drug regimen (or lack of). If you continue to disregard our advice and suggestions, you will find the moderators here will become less and less invested in your posts. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by eymen23

[evertonfan]

 Hi ChessieCat,

 

Thanks very much for your reply. I can understand your frustration with my way of doing things. If I was to reinstate mirtazapine, what dose would you recommend I start? And for how long and how gradually would you suggest I reduce it?

 

I would not consider doing this by myself; rather I would talk to the psychiatrist about whether or not he thinks this might be a good idea. He usually is prepared to listen to what I say. I’m not seeing him until next Tuesday. Even if I wanted to, I could not reinstate the mirtazapine without a prescription from him. I returned all the tablets to the pharmacist for disposal and asked him to bin all the prescriptions for the drug that he had.

 

Thanks very much for the time that you’ve invested in me. I have really appreciated it and I will certainly seriously consider reinstating mirtazapine.

 

Thanks very much.

 

Best wishes.

 

Evertonfan

[ChessieCat]

Please read back through your topic to see if the information has already been provided before asking a question.  This question has already been answered by Altostrata, who is this site's founder.

 

On 7/15/2019 at 7:00 AM, Altostrata said:

Welcome, evertofan.

 

Yes, it looks like you have withdrawal syndrome from going off mirtazapine. As you have found, psychiatrists know next to nothing about this.

 

Do you have any mirtazapine left? If I were you, I'd try taking 1mg to see what it does. Reinstatement of a very low dose often helps withdrawal symptoms, incredible as it seems. This topic explains how to take a low dose Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 

 

You don't need a doctor or other medical professional to be supportive of what you are doing, even though that would be nice.  Not many medical professionals understand tapering and withdrawal from psychiatric drugs which is why this site exists.  All you need is a doctor who will prescribe what you need.  Any doctor can prescribe.

 

If you need to get something specific from a doctor for your tapering then before you see your doctor, you might find it helpful to write a script and rehearse what you are going to say so that you can get what you need to taper.  Be calm, gentle but assertive.  You are the customer, it is your body.  Use words like I'd like to try this, or I'd prefer to do it this way.  If a suggestion is made that you don't want to follow, say I'd like to think about it before making a decision.

 

In your case if you decide that you want to reinstate using SA's suggested small dose but you are concerned that your psychiatrist or doctor wouldn't be open to you taking such a small dose (many think in terms of therapeutic dose, whereas SA prefers lowest effective dose - taking a too high a dose might make things much worse), you could always say that you have decided that want to go back on the drug and allow them to decide on the dose.  You can then take a small dose that what they suggest.  The medical profession will most probably suggest a much higher dose than SA recommends starting on.

 

I suggest you also check out this topic:

 

how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect

 

Please also check out this link about DSM.  You might want to take note of the following information so that you can refer your psych/dr to it. 

 

Antidepressant Discontinuation Syndrome 995.29 (T43.205A)

Initial encounter 995.29 (T43.205A)

Subsequent encounter 995.29 (T43.205D)

Sequelae 995.29 (T43.205S)

[evertonfan]

I am so sorry that I just am not in a position to take your advice. I agree with everything you say about the foolishness of psychiatrists when they prescribe such enormous doses of drugs. I am paying the price now.

 

When I read this site I become terrified because I was on such a very high dose. Way beyond anything experienced by others here.

 

 The psychiatrist took me off so quickly because withdrawal had set in when I stupidly reduced the drug in order to improve sleep. Now the only way I can get sleep is to take dangerous sleeping tablets. But if I don’t take them I will go out of my mind as it is so hard to deal with this burning without sufficient sleep.

 

I will not be returning to the site because I am not able to take your advice.

 

Please forgive me for wasting your time. If I do recover I will look for other ways of warding off depression. I just cannot see me agreeing to take another drug with all the problems associated with antidepressants.

 

Psychological approaches now seem like the way to go.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

You haven't wasted our time.  We have provided you with information like we do all other members.  After getting the information it is each member's own decision what they do with what they have learned.  You have more knowledge now than you did before you found SA.  That is a good thing.

 

I wish you all the best.

 

If you do feel up to it down the track we would be interested to hear how things have gone for you.  One of SA's goals is to educate the medical profession.  We do have medical professionals visiting SA.

[evertonfan]

Thank you so much for your kind words ChessieCat. I am going to tell you what I’ve decided to do and I know it goes against the guidelines but I have to survive. In order to sleep and prevent myself becoming utterly dejected, I have accepted that I’m going to get addicted to zopiclone. It seems to me as if I have no alternative because without sleep I just cannot cope with the symptoms of this withdrawal. 

 

I guess what I’m going to have to do is take this in stages. I must live through the horrible experience of withdrawing from the Mirtazapine, whilst getting addicted to Zopiclone so that I can stay sane. Then sometime down the track I guess I’ll have to come off the Zopiclone.

 

The one question I want to ask is from your experience on this website if someone has come off a massive dose in the way I have, what sort of timeline can one expect to have to go through before firstly, signs of recovery appear and secondly, I actually get better. 

 

I was on Mirtazapine at that level of 90 mg for 10 months. It is now two months since I started to get withdrawal symptoms after reducing the drug over three nights and it is 2 1/2 weeks since I stopped taking the drugs all together.  

 

What is important to me is that somehow amongst this awful pain, I am able to keep doing things and getting out. So if I do not get any sleep, I will become completely overwhelmed and almost certainly will plunge into deep depression. So I feel that sleep at the moment is crucial to my survival. Before I took the Zopiclone I had very limited interrupted sleep and woke in the night to a period of physical and psychological torture. Even though I  recognise that coming off the Zopiclone is going to be difficult in the future taking it is what I have to do.

 

So what I’m asking is will this take months or years to get better. I only wish I had come across your website before I decided to reduce the Mirtazapine on that fateful night over two months ago. I can see that you’re giving terrific advice to people who are in a position when they to come off antidepressants and do so with very little pain. 

 

What I’m doing I guess by posting today is looking for reassurance. I just want to know if I can look forward to an end point when things do start to improve. The psychiatrist talks about up to three months. I imagine you will say longer.

 

By the way, I have successfully withdrawn from Mogadon before. Would it be easier to withdraw from it than Zopiclone? Or should I go to benzobuddies and ask there.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

I will update you on down the track and hopefully it will be a positive post.

 

Bye for now,

 

Evertonfan.

[ChessieCat]

Please note that I am not saying these things to scare you but I think it's important that you understand that things may be difficult for quite some time yet.  When we are realistic about it we are better able to accept the harder times and are less likely to get "knocked about" when things get worse for a time.  It's called acceptance.  It is what it is, at this time.  You will need to be patient and learn and use non drug coping techniques to get you through the difficult spots.  Something that I got from a book on suicide was that "it's just a feeling and feelings change".  You might also find it helpful to see a counsellor and get training about how to deal with life issues in general.

 

I also find it helpful to try to remember that when things aren't going well (for whatever reason), it seems like it will last forever and it can be difficult to remember the good/better times.  Sometimes improvement can be so subtle that you don't notice it.  You might find it helpful to keep a diary.  Another thing I find helpful is compare how I am now to when I was at my worst, not to when I was feeling at my best.

 

The effective of psychiatric drugs is cumulative.  Some members have had no issue coming off a single drug a couple of times in the past, but the 3rd or 4th time they try to get off they start to have difficulties.

 

No, we can't give you a time when things will be better.  You might have periods (of varying length) when you start to feel improvement and then you start to feel worse.  Any additional stress, good or bad, internal/external, sickness, etc can make your symptoms worse.  As Alto says, we are all an experiment where N=1.  It is better to be aware of this so that you are better able to get through the tough times.  Sometimes all we can do is take it day by day, sometimes hour by hour, and at the worst moment by moment.  I've been there myself and I know how difficult it can be.

 

My suggestion would be to abstain from alcohol and caffeine.  If you try anything new, always start with a small amount:  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

And research everything.  If you need/offered drugs do an interaction check.

 

Be very careful with supplements like St Johns Wort, 5 http etc.  Do a google search and add survingantidepressants.org to the search term to find SA discussions on a topic.  There are many of them here.

 

And yes, your psychiatrist's 3 months is very optimistic and it would be nice if he was right, but I doubt it.

 

Please check out this topic, especially Post #1:  reasonable-use-of-z-drugs-for-sleep

 

Please note that if you use melatonin only use a small amount.  Search for the topic on SA.

 

The only supplements which SA recommends are  Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil   Only ever introduce one new thing at a time.

 

On a positive note, you know that you will need to taper the Zopiclone.  When it's you decide that it's time to taper it, please post here in your introduction topic and we can see if we are able to assist you with some information.

 

Please continue to let us know how you are doing.

[evertonfan]

Thanks very much for your advice, ChessieCat. I have certainly been in much worse places than this. So thinking about the positives will help. The reason I have opted for the Zopiclone is so that I can do things and focus out. Without sleep I would be a mess.

 

I have been strict about not drinking coffee or tea after 5 and I don’t drink alcohol. I will cut down on the coffee throughout the day from now on. I also walk for 40 minutes quite fast every day.

 

I got off Mogadon and Ativan last year. But I think it was the Ativan which was the difficult drug. It is extremely powerful but it lifted me out of a deep depression so I shouldn’t complain. I thought that withdrawal was bad but this is so much more intense without the shaking of the other withdrawal.

 

And I am keeping a diary. It just keeps amazing me how I have been able to continue doing things including leading classes at the University of the Third Age and volunteering at the library throughout this ordeal.

 

Thanks for the suggestion to seek psychological support. I am going to talk to my GP about maybe taking a psychology approach to ward off depression in future. It seems as if psychiatric drugs and I just don’t get on. At least by trying Prozac this week (which gave me stomach cramps) that’s one more drug ruled out and the information on this site enabled me to persuade the psychiatrist that Pristiq is not an option for me.

 

I don’t entirely dismiss the chemical imbalance theory which underpins the prescription of antidepressants. But it seems unlikely there is one out there my body will accept.

 

Thanks for the link to Z drugs. I will have a look at it now.

 

All the best and thanks again,

 

Ivan.

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

4 minutes ago, evertonfan said:

I also walk for 40 minutes quite fast every day.

 

Some members find that strenuous exercise exacerbates their symptoms.  exercise-do-more-do-less-do-nothing-what-worked-for-you

 

This is where keeping a diary can be helpful, so that you can see if there is any pattern/cause to your symptoms.

 

Also be aware that the half life of Zopiclone is 5 hours.  I know with benzos some people experience rebound anxiety if they aren't taking it consistently, or taking 2 or 3 times a day (dependent on the half life of their drug).

[evertonfan]

Would Mogadon which stays in system longer be more likely to keep me asleep until later?  Last year - having been on it or Temazepam for six months - I got off Mogadon (10mgs) and my sleep returned to normal fairly quickly. I would ask the psychiatrist to prescribe 5 mgs a night and stick to it.

 

Thanks again,

 

Evertonfan

[ChessieCat]

The trouble with psychiatric drugs is that the effect of going on and off, and changing doses, is cumulative.  What previously worked may not work again.  And the situation you are in is probably different to when you were taking Mogadon.  Had you just cold turkeyed a high dose of mirtazapine last time you were taking and stopped Mogadon?  Probably not.

 

Just a reminder, SA is a site for providing information and support for people tapering and reducing/getting of psychiatric drugs.  We do not make recommendations of what drug to change to and add in (except in extremely rare circumstances).

 

My last word to you is and this is my personal opinion, I think that your best option would be to make a small reinstatement of the mirtazapine (because this is the drug that your brain has adapted to) and to stop the Zopiclone ASAP.  Possibly take a small dose for a few days whilst the reinstatement is kicking in and to give you some much needed sleep.  You would need to keep daily notes on paper to see how the reinstatement is working, and if you notice that the symptoms ease a bit but are still bad, you could increase by another small amount after about 1 week or so.  You would need to be patient during this time.

 

One thing that I will caution you about, it is very easy to make bad decisions when we panic.  We have members here who this has happened to and they have started taking high doses of the former drug and/or started throwing everything but the kitchen sink at their issues and have just made things worse and sometimes for a very long time.

 

I really have nothing more to offer so I will take this opportunity to wish you all the best and hope that you can find a solution and that your issues resolve in the near future.

 

You might find these websites are more suitable for your situation:

 

DepressionForums.org 

 

or

 

PatientsLikeMe.com

 

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

Just found this in Post #1 of the Tips for Tapering mirtazapine topic when looking for information for another member.

 

On 4/11/2012 at 10:07 AM, Altostrata said:

 

A very common withdrawal problem with mirtazapine is rebound insomnia, which reinforces the need for very gradual tapering.

 

 

[evertonfan]

This is an update what a week since my last post. I saw the psychiatrist on Tuesday. He prescribed Mogadon and Endep, a tricyclic antidepressant with similar properties to mirtazapine. I took the Mogadon on the first night and discovered the reason why I had terrible toilet problems in the middle of last year when I took it for a number of months. The following  day was really unpleasant. So I stopped the Mogadon and returned to using the Zopiclone. The next night I tried the Endep. It really does appear to work to improve sleep. 

 

What I'm trying to do now is to get off the Zopclone all together as it is addictive. I am now down to 5 mg at night and will reduce it until I reach zero very soon.

 

My symptoms seem to be much the same nasty aching all through the body . However, now that I am getting a reasonable amount of sleep it makes me able to cope that little bit better. Last Sunday I was so downhearted I rang lifeline and I went to see a young doctor whose advice was to keep taking the sleeping medication because I needed sleep and to take a day by day approach to life. Everyone assures me that I will get better in the end, but no one is able to say when. And in a situation like this any sign – any sign at all – that there will be an end to this would lift my spirits enormously,  but that just doesn't seem to be happening.

 

I am amazed at how I am able to keep leading classes at the University of the third age and volunteering to help people learn to speak English better at the local library. I smile; I am friendly and I listen to what they say and answer politely. Yet underneath it all I'm aching and I just desperately want it to go away.

 

Now for my question: by taking the Endep which is an older style version of an SNRI drug, I am sort of reinstating Mirtazapine.  My worry is that by putting one of these drugs back into my system even at this very low dose of 10 mg that I am stopping my body from recovering from the battering it took by the Mirtazapine.

 

In a way, I am taking the advice of the moderators and administrators on this site because I am putting an SNRI drug back into my body. It's a different one and it has a reputation for helping sleep and it does seem to be working in that respect. So I guess all I've got to do is hope for the best.

 

Thanks for reading this,

 

Evertonfan 

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, evertonfan said:

 

Now for my question: by taking the Endep which is an older style version of an SNRI drug, I am sort of reinstating Mirtazapine.  My worry is that by putting one of these drugs back into my system even at this very low dose of 10 mg that I am stopping my body from recovering from the battering it took by the Mirtazapine.

 

 

Your guess is as good as anybody's.

 

On 7/26/2019 at 8:41 AM, eymen23 said:

 

By trialling different drugs in the meantime, you are only furthering the risk of nervous system destabilisation. 

 

 

[evertonfan]

I will just sign off, ChessieCat, by saying but I don't think I have any choice but to take zopiclone (my wife calls it zombie clone) and Endep for the time being. Sleep is essential when trying to come to terms with an extended period of withdrawal like this one is. I'm seeing the psychiatrist tomorrow morning and I will discuss with him the observation made here that taking another antidepressant is possibly going to destabilise my body even more.

 

As I said in previous posts, I only wish I had come on this site before I made the fateful decision to reduce the Mirtazapine without consulting the psychiatrist.

 

I have benefited from being on this site because I have learnt that it is extremely unwise to allow oneself to become dependent  on huge doses of antidepressants. As a consequence, if and when I recover I will never allow myself to be put in this kind of danger again. I trusted the psychiatrist because - probably by accident - he got me out of depression. So I went along with his decision to prescribe high doses of two antidepressants along with a number of other drugs. I made every effort I could to reduce the amount I was taking and that sadly is what led me to this predicament I'm now in. So if I do eventually become well, I will actually regard this awful ordeal as a good thing as it almost certainly saved me from something worse down the track now that I  have realised that I was in danger every single day I took 90 mg of Mirtazapine.

 

Please keep on doing the good work you are doing. If there was some way to publicise this website. Then people  without any withdrawal symptoms in their body but who want to come off anti-depressant will know the dangers of coming down too quickly.

 

I'm sure you're doing great work to help many many people and I wish you all the best in carrying on that role.

 

All the best,

 

Evertonfan. 

[evertonfan]

Hello everyone,

 

It is some time since I posted on this site. I was warned that I had to re-instate Mirtazapine or I would not be allowed to post on here again. I accepted that as I was not in a position to do that given that neither my GP or my psychiatrist would prescribe the drug for me. Moreover, after cutting the drug for only three nights, I had horrific withdrawal symptoms with aching throughout my body. The psychiatrist had tried reinstating the dose to 90 mg a day but the aching remained as painful as ever. The psychiatrist tried to follow what he called the textbook by reducing it but nothing changed. I had to accept that in my case getting off the drug asap was the only way to go. Professor Ashton has said that reinstatement does not work for everyone and that certainly was true for me. I was aghast at the prognosis given to me by moderators and administrators on this site. This is not a criticism. They have more experience of the drug and its impact than the medical practitioners who were dealing with me. So when one of them told me that she had not come across someone taking such a high does I became even more frightened.  

 

All I could do was hang in there. I took Zopiclone at a low dose to assist me with sleep and was helped to control the level of this drug by taking a really small dose of the antidepressant, Amitriptyline (20mg) which I reduced to 10 mg because of stomach issues at the higher dose.

 

I started to experience the aching in late May and got off Mirtazapine entirely on July 9th. The aching got worse throughout July and August and only started to dissipate in September. As soon as it improved, I set about reducing the Zopiclone which I have now been off for 12 nights. I am still taking the Amitriptyline but expect to reduce that very soon. 

 

This week for the first time in five painful months my body is feeling normal and my sleep is much better than it was prior to getting off the Mirtazapine when I simply could not get to sleep. Neither my GP or the psychiatrist picked up that it was the high dose of the drug which was affecting me in this way. High doses can prevent the onset of sleep unlike low doses.

 

I have decided after talking to the GP at length that I will not be returning to the psychiatrist. The GP's view is that, as I am now in a strong mental state, it is better for me to enjoy my life for as long as I can without the side effects and withdrawal symptoms which come with psychiatric drugs. I am going to meet with a psychologist next week so that he can help me develop strategies to fend off depression.

 

In conclusion, I want to thank the people who run this site for going to all the trouble of setting up survivingantidepressants.org. I am convinced that in the vast number of cases the approach recommended here is the right way to go. Indeed, my GP tells me he is working with a 95 year old patient to get her off 60 mg of Mirtazapine. He told me that he is going very slowly. The psychiatrist also subscribes to your approach. However, I was in a spiral and the drug appeared to have become a poison to my body so in this one instance the textbook just didn't work.

 

When I was told on here that I could expect an extremely long withdrawal, I became very worried. I am so thankful that it did only take about three months after my last dose to return to normal. 

 

I was invited to come beck here and give an update on my progress and that's what I have done. I wish everyone who reads this the best of luck with whatever they are dealing with. As for me, I am going to try to put the whole thing behind me.

 

I have tried to raise awareness and even written to a newspaper asking them to investigate what is clearly becoming a massive problem of over-prescribing. I used The Daily Mail's campaign in the UK as an example of what can be achieved but they simply ignored me. If you wish to read about the great success this publication has achieved you can find it at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7445657/One-four-people-hooked-prescription-drugs-official-review-calls-national-helpline.html

 

It's time now for me to realise that I cannot save the world and be satisfied that yet again I have recovered from psychiatry and psychiatric drugs.

 

All the best,

 

Evertonfan (Ivan)

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're feeling better, everton. How long has it been that you feel completely recovered?

 

It's unclear which drugs you were taking at what time. Could you summarize? You're still taking amitryptyline, is that correct?

[evertonfan]

In response to your request for more details here is the following information, Altostrata.

 

I cut the Mirtazapine from 90 to 45 mg over three nights at the end of June. The aching began on the fourth day after I had reduced the drug. For about ten days I was back on 90 mg. Then the psychiatrist cut it to 67.5 mg for about ten nights. Nothing changed; I was still aching with weird sensations throughout my body. At this point the psychiatrist decided to get me off the drug "gently" over eight days.

 

What followed was hell. My sleep consisted of tossing and turning for a couple of hours after which I gave up and got out of bed. This went on for a couple of weeks. Then I started taking Zopiclone initially at 7.5 mg. This got up to 15 mg . Then I was prescribed Endep (Amitriptyline) at 20 mg. This had the effect of helping me control the use of Zopiclone. I was able to reduce it to one and a quarter 7.5 mg tablets. I stayed on that level for maybe two months. I did get some sleep and was able to keep doing things like running volunteer classes which helped me keep going through what was a truly awful experience. The psychiatrist tried two drugs to alleviate the aching, Lyrica and Tegretol. Neither worked and I got off them very quickly. 

 

It was his decision to prescribe Clonazepam which completely alienated me. He said we would not go "gung ho" and that I should take .5 mg for a few days and then go up to 2 mg by the end of the week. When I discovered the Valium equivalent of this dose, I refused to take it and wrote the psychiatrist a stern email explaining how I felt his prescribing practices were ludricrously over the top.

 

There is more to this story. I have to go out now. But when I get back, I will post the three emails I sent the psychiatrist. This will help you understand my outrage at what has happened to me.

 

I did suggest I am fully recovered. This is not the case yet. I get tired quickly. I also feel strange from time to time. But compared to where I was four weeks ago I have improved immensely. It is particularly in regards to my sleep that things have got so much better. I expected a period of extended insomnia when I came off the Zopiclone which I had tapered down from one and a quarter tablets over a couple of weeks. This did not happen. I did have trouble some nights and I should be sleeping more hours but I am getting quite a lot of sleep.

 

 

[evertonfan]

Here is the extra information I said I would post:

 

The first is part of an email I sent to the psychiatrist explaining why psychiatry and psychiatric drugs had been the bane of my life on and off since 2007.

 

Psychiatric Drugs, Psychiatry and Me

Here is a list of some of the many ways psychiatry and psychiatric drugs have a deleterious impact on my life. As a consequence of that I have endured as a result of my time under the care of psychiatrists, I am wondering if it would not be better to simply get off drugs and try to find other ways of warding of depression. It should be noted that almost every psychiatric drug I have taken has either had significant side effects or presented me with withdrawal symptoms. In the case of benzodiazepines in particular I have had both side effects and painful withdrawals.

 

§  Addiction to benzodiazepines three times. I took Clonazepam, Valium and most likely Temazepam. On each occasion I had painful and prolonged withdrawals. The worst was last year when I withdrew from Ativan and Mogadon. I only took Lorazepam for five weeks. Yet it took me three and a half months to recover from the aching and shaking it which affected me whilst I was taking it and during my gradual recovery.

§  Many drugs were thrown at me while I was under the care of Dr Shama Aradhye at Peter James. However, I hardly remember their impact on me because I was given 56 ECT treatments which wiped many years from my memory – something that has been an enormous challenge for me. What makes it worse is that nothing much came out of all those treatments and eventually Dr Aradhye gave up on me and discharged me with a list of three psychiatrists.

§  I do remember that Olanzapine (an anti-psychotic) was prescribed for me by Dr Aradhye. It gave me the shakes. Seroquel which you prescribed led me to bounce up and down all day.

§  A combination of Valium and Temazepam prescribed year last year by Dr Piez led me to be drowsy all day. At one point I slipped and fell through the front window.

§  Mogadon wreaked havoc on my digestive system so much so that I endured a nightmare during which I was defecating on average 14 times a day. I was always led to believe this was a result of depression and only discovered that Mogadon was the culprit when I took it for one night a couple of weeks ago.

§  Lexapro on the TGA maximum recommended dose which I was prescribed last year resulted in stomach upsets and flatulence. I withdrew from this drug easily which indirectly led to the nightmare I have been going through over the last three months.

§  It is true that I did not have any obvious side effects from Epilim but I was never clear about why I was taking it. And Propanolol did not present me with any problems but then I only took it to help me handle the shaking from the withdrawal from Ativan.

§  And now we come to Mirtazapine. This is the only antidepressant I took which did not give me significant side effects. I got off 30mg of it at the end of 2017 with no withdrawal symptoms. (I was then put on Nardil. Indeed, I stayed three weeks in Peter James to ensure it was not deleteriously affecting me. Then you took me off stating that Lexapro is a ‘more modern drug”.)

§  There was one side effect which came with the 90mg dose and that was a difficulty getting to sleep which I found to be a side effect of a high dose. So then I made my mistake and cut the drug to 45mg for three nights leading to the truly awful withdrawal I have been experiencing.

§  Zopiclone is clearly a highly addictive drug. Its effect is getting weaker and weaker as each day passes. Indeed, to get a decent amount of sleep last night I took an extra half tablet at 4am.

§  Finally there is Endep. I am not sure if it is having any effect on my sleep but it is certainly giving me flatulence and I want to get off it as soon as possible as I don’t want to develop a dependency on it.

 

The second is an email I sent to the psychiatrist as things were just starting to improve at the end of August. He had just prescribed Clonazepam and I was outraged at his proposal. It epitomised for me everything about psychiatry as it is now practised. Psychiatry is about drugs and very little else. The psychiatrist said to me once that "psychiatry is an art not a science". At this point I felt it was more like pornographic graffiti.

 

One thing which should be noted is that I  - and the psychiatrist - attributed my coming out of depression to the impact of Ativan. However, my GP has stated on a number of occasions that my recovery could have been cyclical. My wife has reinforced this by telling me that I was starting to take an interest in things again in the weeks prior to taking the Ativan last June. It is entirely understandable that I was overcome by gloom around this time; I was going to the toilet with diarrhoea on average 14 times a day and was constantly tired thanks to the side effects of Mogadon and I was afflicted with wind from Lexapro as well. The Mirtazapine was prescribed on top of the Lexapro after I had withdrawn from the Mogadon and Ativan.

 

Dear Dr ....

I am writing to let you know that over the past week there has been a marked improvement in my symptoms. As a consequence, I have been thinking about what should happen next and I have come to the conclusion that it is not in my best interests to continue in your care.

 

My reason for deciding this is that you are committed in your practice to prescribing numerous drugs some at very high levels. It is clear that you subscribe to the chemical imbalance theory of depression which has led you to have me on 45mg of Lexapro whilst at the same time taking Mirtazapine at twice the TGA recommended maximum dose.

The reaction I had to cutting the Mirtazapine for only three nights is one example of the potentially dangerous consequences of this approach to the treatment of depression. Indeed, I believe I have had a fortunate escape from something much worse further down the track when events may have conspired to cause me not to take the drug for a short period of time.

 

Over the last eighteen months I have been experienced side-effects from anti-psychotics, anti-depressants and benzodiazepines. It is true that I came out of a severe depression the week you prescribed Ativan for me. However, it should be noted that this drug is not an anti-depressant. Indeed, when I look back my three experiences of depression, I cannot think of an occasion when taking anti-depressants actually helped me in any way. I took them over the last year because I had placed my trust in your judgement and accepted your proposition that these drugs would “protect” me from another onset of depression.

 

As it turned out the huge dose of Mirtazapine you prescribed for me almost precipitated the very thing I was taking it to prevent. My experience over the last three months has been truly horrific. The kind of aching I experienced was at times almost unendurable.

 

It is not only your prescribing of anti-depressants that has concerned me. I was never clear why I was taking 100mg of Epilim each day - a drug devised to counter the impact of Epilepsy.

However, it is your approach to the prescribing of benzodiazepines and Z drugs which made me make up my mind that I should seek someone else’s assistance. The advice to medical practitioners is that these drugs should be taken for no longer than four weeks. Yet you had me on 10mg Mogadon for a number of months and then added Ativan on top of that. Given my previous experiences of withdrawal from benzodiazepines I made it clear I wanted to get off these drugs as soon as possible. You went along with this and after a period of painful withdrawal I got better. My suspicion is that you would have kept me on these drugs if I had not been so insistent that I get off them.

 

Then last Monday you came up with the suggestion that I take .5mg of Clonazepam with a view to increasing the dosage to 2mg later in the week. When I realised just how much Valium equivalent dosage that is, my faith in your approach to psychiatry came to an end.

 

At the time I came out of a severe depression, I was prepared to go along with your approach to the use of drugs. But it should be noted that I was constantly questioning you about the number and amount of drugs you were prescribing. This should have led you at the very least to warn me of the dangers of cutting high doses of antidepressants without your supervision. You have told me yourself that many of patients mess around with their dosages.

 

As I said, I regard this dreadful experience of Mirtazapine withdrawal as a lucky escape. Now thanks to that withdrawal I still have to get off the highly addictive Z drug, Zopiclone. So, to cut a long story short, I am simply not prepared to take massive doses of antidepressants again – given that the theory which has led to their use is actually rather dubious.

 

In conclusion, I want you to understand that I believe you acted in my best interests throughout; it is just that I can no longer commit myself to the drugs you are likely to prescribe for me in the future especially as they almost inevitably will come with side effects or much worse.

Yours sincerely,

Ivan.

 

And here is the last email I sent the psychiatrist. At that point I had not had the conversation with the GP about what to do next. Nor had I read and listened to Dr Peter Breggin who has consistently maintained over many years that antidepressants and ECT should be banned.

 

 

Dear Dr ....,

 

I am writing to give you an update on my progress. My withdrawal symptoms from coming off 90mg of Mirtazapine have subsided considerably but are still evident.

 

In order for me to get some sleep, you prescribed Zopiclone and Endep. I have continued to take both but in ever decreasing dosages. By the time you read this email, it is likely that I will have come off both of them.

 

My thinking at the moment is that my body needs a rest from psychiatry and psychiatric drugs. Even though I have experienced three bouts of depression with the misery it has inflicted on me, the impact of the treatment I have endured as a result of psychiatrists trying to help has been as bad if not worse than depression itself: years of memory wiped from brain by 56 ECTs, three withdrawals from benzodiazepines, exposure to Mogadon (which for me was literally a sh*tty drug), movement disorders thanks to anti-psychotics and the truly horrific experience of getting through Mirtazapine "discontinuation" which has also resulted in me having to taper off a Z drug.

 

I do realise I am taking a risk and I have considered carefully what you have told me. So I will probably see you again at some point to discuss getting onto another anti-depressant. That will be a challenge because everyone I have allowed to enter my mouth has given me one sort of side-effect or another. Even the low dose of 20mg of Endep I was taking gave me flatulence.

 

I will talk at length with Dr Piez about this. But there is no doubt in my mind that before I take another anti-depressant, I will have researched everything I can find out about it and will only accept a low to medium dosage and it must definitely be no more than the TGA recommended maximum. Now that I know the consequences of dependency on anti-depressants, I am absolutely determined I won't let this experience happen to me again.

 

I hope you had a rewarding trip to France. And I may see you in the not too distant future.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ivan

 

So that is where it now stands. I have an appointment with a psychologist next Tuesday. Hopefully, I will not have to see a psychiatrist again in my life. I am deeply grateful to the GP who has a balanced view about psychiatry and its drugs. He does use them because he has seen them work. However, unlike the psychiatrists I have dealt with, he does not feel that piling one drug on top of another is the way to go. One final point I would like to make is that I now understand that the long term effects of taking antidepressants over a long period of time at high doses are not known. Some of these drugs have not been around for long enough for empirical evidence to be available. But the suspicion is that there are dangers such as increased risk of heart disease, stroke and dementia. Yet psychiatrists and GPs blithely prescribe these drugs. I am left wondering just how many people think that all is OK now whilst taking these drugs who will be in serious trouble down the track.

 

To conclude I am still not 100 per cent; there is some aching but it comes and goes and I am confident that I will get there in the end. But patience is required.

 

 

[evertonfan]

I came across this article as I was trawling around the internet trying to find out about antidepressants. It is by a psychiatrist who is sad about the way the practice of psychiatry has changed since she started in the profession.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/12/the-disillusioned-psychiatrist/

[India]

On 10/22/2019 at 5:20 AM, evertonfan said:

Here is the extra information I said I would post:

 

The first is part of an email I sent to the psychiatrist explaining why psychiatry and psychiatric drugs had been the bane of my life on and off since 2007.

 

Psychiatric Drugs, Psychiatry and Me

Here is a list of some of the many ways psychiatry and psychiatric drugs have a deleterious impact on my life. As a consequence of that I have endured as a result of my time under the care of psychiatrists, I am wondering if it would not be better to simply get off drugs and try to find other ways of warding of depression. It should be noted that almost every psychiatric drug I have taken has either had significant side effects or presented me with withdrawal symptoms. In the case of benzodiazepines in particular I have had both side effects and painful withdrawals.

 

§  Addiction to benzodiazepines three times. I took Clonazepam, Valium and most likely Temazepam. On each occasion I had painful and prolonged withdrawals. The worst was last year when I withdrew from Ativan and Mogadon. I only took Lorazepam for five weeks. Yet it took me three and a half months to recover from the aching and shaking it which affected me whilst I was taking it and during my gradual recovery.

§  Many drugs were thrown at me while I was under the care of Dr Shama Aradhye at Peter James. However, I hardly remember their impact on me because I was given 56 ECT treatments which wiped many years from my memory – something that has been an enormous challenge for me. What makes it worse is that nothing much came out of all those treatments and eventually Dr Aradhye gave up on me and discharged me with a list of three psychiatrists.

§  I do remember that Olanzapine (an anti-psychotic) was prescribed for me by Dr Aradhye. It gave me the shakes. Seroquel which you prescribed led me to bounce up and down all day.

§  A combination of Valium and Temazepam prescribed year last year by Dr Piez led me to be drowsy all day. At one point I slipped and fell through the front window.

§  Mogadon wreaked havoc on my digestive system so much so that I endured a nightmare during which I was defecating on average 14 times a day. I was always led to believe this was a result of depression and only discovered that Mogadon was the culprit when I took it for one night a couple of weeks ago.

§  Lexapro on the TGA maximum recommended dose which I was prescribed last year resulted in stomach upsets and flatulence. I withdrew from this drug easily which indirectly led to the nightmare I have been going through over the last three months.

§  It is true that I did not have any obvious side effects from Epilim but I was never clear about why I was taking it. And Propanolol did not present me with any problems but then I only took it to help me handle the shaking from the withdrawal from Ativan.

§  And now we come to Mirtazapine. This is the only antidepressant I took which did not give me significant side effects. I got off 30mg of it at the end of 2017 with no withdrawal symptoms. (I was then put on Nardil. Indeed, I stayed three weeks in Peter James to ensure it was not deleteriously affecting me. Then you took me off stating that Lexapro is a ‘more modern drug”.)

§  There was one side effect which came with the 90mg dose and that was a difficulty getting to sleep which I found to be a side effect of a high dose. So then I made my mistake and cut the drug to 45mg for three nights leading to the truly awful withdrawal I have been experiencing.

§  Zopiclone is clearly a highly addictive drug. Its effect is getting weaker and weaker as each day passes. Indeed, to get a decent amount of sleep last night I took an extra half tablet at 4am.

§  Finally there is Endep. I am not sure if it is having any effect on my sleep but it is certainly giving me flatulence and I want to get off it as soon as possible as I don’t want to develop a dependency on it.

 

The second is an email I sent to the psychiatrist as things were just starting to improve at the end of August. He had just prescribed Clonazepam and I was outraged at his proposal. It epitomised for me everything about psychiatry as it is now practised. Psychiatry is about drugs and very little else. The psychiatrist said to me once that "psychiatry is an art not a science". At this point I felt it was more like pornographic graffiti.

 

One thing which should be noted is that I  - and the psychiatrist - attributed my coming out of depression to the impact of Ativan. However, my GP has stated on a number of occasions that my recovery could have been cyclical. My wife has reinforced this by telling me that I was starting to take an interest in things again in the weeks prior to taking the Ativan last June. It is entirely understandable that I was overcome by gloom around this time; I was going to the toilet with diarrhoea on average 14 times a day and was constantly tired thanks to the side effects of Mogadon and I was afflicted with wind from Lexapro as well. The Mirtazapine was prescribed on top of the Lexapro after I had withdrawn from the Mogadon and Ativan.

 

Dear Dr ....

I am writing to let you know that over the past week there has been a marked improvement in my symptoms. As a consequence, I have been thinking about what should happen next and I have come to the conclusion that it is not in my best interests to continue in your care.

 

My reason for deciding this is that you are committed in your practice to prescribing numerous drugs some at very high levels. It is clear that you subscribe to the chemical imbalance theory of depression which has led you to have me on 45mg of Lexapro whilst at the same time taking Mirtazapine at twice the TGA recommended maximum dose.

The reaction I had to cutting the Mirtazapine for only three nights is one example of the potentially dangerous consequences of this approach to the treatment of depression. Indeed, I believe I have had a fortunate escape from something much worse further down the track when events may have conspired to cause me not to take the drug for a short period of time.

 

Over the last eighteen months I have been experienced side-effects from anti-psychotics, anti-depressants and benzodiazepines. It is true that I came out of a severe depression the week you prescribed Ativan for me. However, it should be noted that this drug is not an anti-depressant. Indeed, when I look back my three experiences of depression, I cannot think of an occasion when taking anti-depressants actually helped me in any way. I took them over the last year because I had placed my trust in your judgement and accepted your proposition that these drugs would “protect” me from another onset of depression.

 

As it turned out the huge dose of Mirtazapine you prescribed for me almost precipitated the very thing I was taking it to prevent. My experience over the last three months has been truly horrific. The kind of aching I experienced was at times almost unendurable.

 

It is not only your prescribing of anti-depressants that has concerned me. I was never clear why I was taking 100mg of Epilim each day - a drug devised to counter the impact of Epilepsy.

However, it is your approach to the prescribing of benzodiazepines and Z drugs which made me make up my mind that I should seek someone else’s assistance. The advice to medical practitioners is that these drugs should be taken for no longer than four weeks. Yet you had me on 10mg Mogadon for a number of months and then added Ativan on top of that. Given my previous experiences of withdrawal from benzodiazepines I made it clear I wanted to get off these drugs as soon as possible. You went along with this and after a period of painful withdrawal I got better. My suspicion is that you would have kept me on these drugs if I had not been so insistent that I get off them.

 

Then last Monday you came up with the suggestion that I take .5mg of Clonazepam with a view to increasing the dosage to 2mg later in the week. When I realised just how much Valium equivalent dosage that is, my faith in your approach to psychiatry came to an end.

 

At the time I came out of a severe depression, I was prepared to go along with your approach to the use of drugs. But it should be noted that I was constantly questioning you about the number and amount of drugs you were prescribing. This should have led you at the very least to warn me of the dangers of cutting high doses of antidepressants without your supervision. You have told me yourself that many of patients mess around with their dosages.

 

As I said, I regard this dreadful experience of Mirtazapine withdrawal as a lucky escape. Now thanks to that withdrawal I still have to get off the highly addictive Z drug, Zopiclone. So, to cut a long story short, I am simply not prepared to take massive doses of antidepressants again – given that the theory which has led to their use is actually rather dubious.

 

In conclusion, I want you to understand that I believe you acted in my best interests throughout; it is just that I can no longer commit myself to the drugs you are likely to prescribe for me in the future especially as they almost inevitably will come with side effects or much worse.

Yours sincerely,

Ivan.

 

And here is the last email I sent the psychiatrist. At that point I had not had the conversation with the GP about what to do next. Nor had I read and listened to Dr Peter Breggin who has consistently maintained over many years that antidepressants and ECT should be banned.

 

 

Dear Dr ....,

 

I am writing to give you an update on my progress. My withdrawal symptoms from coming off 90mg of Mirtazapine have subsided considerably but are still evident.

 

In order for me to get some sleep, you prescribed Zopiclone and Endep. I have continued to take both but in ever decreasing dosages. By the time you read this email, it is likely that I will have come off both of them.

 

My thinking at the moment is that my body needs a rest from psychiatry and psychiatric drugs. Even though I have experienced three bouts of depression with the misery it has inflicted on me, the impact of the treatment I have endured as a result of psychiatrists trying to help has been as bad if not worse than depression itself: years of memory wiped from brain by 56 ECTs, three withdrawals from benzodiazepines, exposure to Mogadon (which for me was literally a sh*tty drug), movement disorders thanks to anti-psychotics and the truly horrific experience of getting through Mirtazapine "discontinuation" which has also resulted in me having to taper off a Z drug.

 

I do realise I am taking a risk and I have considered carefully what you have told me. So I will probably see you again at some point to discuss getting onto another anti-depressant. That will be a challenge because everyone I have allowed to enter my mouth has given me one sort of side-effect or another. Even the low dose of 20mg of Endep I was taking gave me flatulence.

 

I will talk at length with Dr Piez about this. But there is no doubt in my mind that before I take another anti-depressant, I will have researched everything I can find out about it and will only accept a low to medium dosage and it must definitely be no more than the TGA recommended maximum. Now that I know the consequences of dependency on anti-depressants, I am absolutely determined I won't let this experience happen to me again.

 

I hope you had a rewarding trip to France. And I may see you in the not too distant future.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ivan

 

So that is where it now stands. I have an appointment with a psychologist next Tuesday. Hopefully, I will not have to see a psychiatrist again in my life. I am deeply grateful to the GP who has a balanced view about psychiatry and its drugs. He does use them because he has seen them work. However, unlike the psychiatrists I have dealt with, he does not feel that piling one drug on top of another is the way to go. One final point I would like to make is that I now understand that the long term effects of taking antidepressants over a long period of time at high doses are not known. Some of these drugs have not been around for long enough for empirical evidence to be available. But the suspicion is that there are dangers such as increased risk of heart disease, stroke and dementia. Yet psychiatrists and GPs blithely prescribe these drugs. I am left wondering just how many people think that all is OK now whilst taking these drugs who will be in serious trouble down the track.

 

To conclude I am still not 100 per cent; there is some aching but it comes and goes and I am confident that I will get there in the end. But patience is required.

 

 

Congratulations. Written with lucidity and insight. Consider that published here, it is a platform that will reach many ( and may even deter some). 

Truly heart-wrenching. Peter Gordon , psychiatrist has talked about the damage of the   trend of doctors to value research over the experiences of their patients. 

@Gemma92 another recovery story.

[Altostrata]

Very good letters. I hope the doctors learn something from them.

 

Everton, I would like to celebrate your recovery, but our success stories are from people who definitely have come out on the other side of withdrawal and have felt recovered for months.

 

Instead, I'd like to celebrate your progress in minimizing your drugs, your improvement, and toast to its continuation. We look forward to your success story!

 

What drugs are you taking now, at what times of day, and what dosages?

[evertonfan]

Thanks for clarifying what is meant by "a success story", Altostrata. I think I will eventually get to the point when I can present one.

 

In answer to your question, I have been taking 10 mg of Amitriptyline each night just prior to going to bed for about two to three months. (I can find out the exact date I started from my diary if you want me to.) I got up to 20mg for around two weeks but the flatulence which came with that dose led me to cut it back to 10 mg.

 

I saw the GP this morning and we agreed I would reduce it to 5 mg from tonight. He said it should be relatively easy to get off compared to Zopiclone. He even went as far as to say I could stop taking it altogether. He left it up to me. It is a very low dose and I haven't been on it for long either. He told me about one of his patients who is in the process of being switched by a psychiatrist from one antidepressant to Amitriptyline and is going to start the drug at 200 mg. This gives me some context in regards to the dose I am taking. All being well, I will be off the Amitripyline fairly soon.

 

My sleep is still not that good. I am waking early each morning but sometimes like today very early with the result that I feel deprived of sleep. I guess it will take time for my sleep pattern to be fully restored.

 

Regards,

 

Evertonfan.

 

PS The GP is aware that I have been posting on this site. He asked me to find out why people on this site are being given psychiatric drugs. I told him that I suspected that many people are put on psychiatric drugs when the situation they face does not really require drugs. I also told him that I have looked at many members' signatures and have noted that a lot of them are on a range of psychiatric drugs. This doesn't surprise me at all. My own experience of psychiatry - which now is extensive - indicates that psychiatrists are more likely to add more drugs into the mix rather than wind down their patients' drugs.

 

If you have a few minutes to comment, I would appreciate it. He manages the practice and he consults with the other doctors. He is aware of the extent of prescribing by psychiatrists and is sometimes left to deal with the consequences. 

[evertonfan]

As I said yesterday, my GP said that as 10 mg of Amitriptyline is such a low dose, I could just get off it. So that's what I did last night. I managed to get a few hours sleep during what was a warm night. 

 

So this means I am now psychiatric drug free. I have to say that a few months ago, I would never have imagined that I would be in this position; I had completely bought the idea posed by the psychiatrist that as a consequence of having had three bouts of major depression, I should be on antidepressants for the rest of my life.

 

I was amazed when the GP - after consistently maintaining that I need a psychiatrist for many months - suddenly did an about face and stated that on balance I should stay off psychiatric drugs and enjoy my life for as long as I am able to without enduring side effects from them.

 

So so far so good. I will keep updating you as I go along. And maybe in the not too distant future I can post a success story.

 

Evertonfan.

[evertonfan]

This is another update. Unfortunately, I have had to reinstate the 10 mg dose of Amitriptyline. For three nights I got little sleep. I got to sleep quickly but was awake very early. On one of these nights I took Zopiclone at about 2.30 as I had a busy day scheduled for Saturday. On Friday and Sunday I dragged myself through the day. So last night I took the Amitriptyline and had a decent night's sleep. 

 

My wife and I have booked an overseas trip in December so I am going to keep taking the small dose till then. Each day I will only be taking less than 5 percent of the Mirtazapine equivalent I was taking before my nightmare started so I am happy with that for the time being.

 

Thanks to three drugs - Mirtazapine, Zopiclone and now Amitriptyline - my sleep has been messed around so I am prepared for it to take some time for it to get back to normal.

 

 I still have some aching thanks to the withdrawal so I must prioritise sleep ahead of my very strong desire to be psychiatric drug free.

 

Tomorrow I have my first appointment with a psychologist so I will see what ideas he has to assist me to fend off depression. 

 

Best wishes,

 

Evertonfan.

 

[evertonfan]

Another month has gone by. I'm still taking 10 mg of a trip amitriptyline. On a number of occasions I have tried to reduce it or even stop it. However, every time I do, I end up having little sleep. So for the time being I'm going to keep taking the amitriptyline.

 

My wife and I are going overseas in December . Therefore the GP and I have agreed that I will not attempt to withdraw completely from the drug until after I come back.  Then we will reduce it to 5 mg  eventually get off it altogether.

 

I met with the psychologist twice. He had seen me 10 years ago when I was very badly depressed. Therefore he wants me to consult with a psychiatrist who takes a more holistic approach to mental health. The problem is finding one that doesn't deal primarily with drugs.

 

My GP has told me that that is going to be very difficult as he doesn't know any psychiatrist who doesn't  rely primarily on drugs. So for the time being I won't be going back to the psychologist and I am leaving the job of finding a psychiatrist until the middle of January next year.

 

My GP is a flexible thinker. He has suggested to me that he write a letter to the psychiatrist who put me on the Mirtazapine. In that letter he would say that I am very well and that for the time being - in his view - it is better that I live without the side-effects which antidepressants bring with them. He would want the psychiatrist to be a fallback for me, so that if I do become depressed, he would be the person I would see rather than being taken to a public hospital.

 

I think I am likely to go along with this idea. The question is will a psychiatrist who is committed to using psychiatric drugs agree with my GP's proposal. I guess only time will tell.

 

Now that I know the antidepressants bring with them all sorts of problems that I wasn't aware of before this shocking withdrawal that I went through, I am extremely reluctant to allow myself to take them again.

 

Anyway that's my update. Thanks to all the people who are reading this and best of luck.

 

Everton 

 

[evertonfan]

Hi Everyone,

 

I just decided to have a look at the site so I might as well give you another update. My sleep has improved; I am now waking up and going back to sleep in the middle of the night which is very encouraging. However, I am still taking the 10 mg of Amitriptyline and will do so for a while yet. In the last couple of weeks I have resumed going to the gym after being away for six months thanks to the Mirtazapine withdrawal. In regards to finding a non-drug doling out psychiatrist I may have found one but he is not seeing anyone new until the middle of January. So I am going to leave it until then.

 

Best wishes,

 

Evertonfan.