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ChessieCat
26 minutes ago, DavidfromTexas said:

Otherwise I am also seriously considering just taking the leap and going back to taking the 20mg pill and seeing how it works out.

 

NO!  NO!   NO!

 

You are not thinking straight at this time and you need to be careful not to make bad decisions.  Please carefully read the following two quotes from the reinstatement topic.  If you start taking too high a dose and things get worse you may have to wait it out for a very long time.  We have members here who have reinstated a too high dose and because of it some have had to leave work, some have had relationship break down, some have become bedridden.

 

There is also the possibility that if you updose too high and things get worse you will end up on more drugs, because the doctor will try to counteract the problem.  We have seen this happen to members here.

 

On 10/9/2012 at 10:17 AM, Altostrata said:

Avoid kindling, start low to see what you need. You can always increase if necessary. If you've been off the drug for a month or more, many people can find some relief from antidepressant withdrawal symptoms by reinstating as little as 0.5mg-5mg. Do not start at a high dose, your nervous system has been sensitized by withdrawal and you may make it worse, which is called kindling -- see a fuller explanation below.

 

On 10/9/2012 at 10:17 AM, Altostrata said:

Additional reasons to reinstate only a partial dose
Reinstating at a low dose reduces the risk of severe adverse reactions, such as kindling, in case reinstatement does not work.

  • Experiencing withdrawal may have sensitized you to drugs and a larger dose may cause an outsized adverse reaction. 
  • If you had adverse reactions while you were taking the drug, a low dose may not trigger the adverse reactions but still reduce withdrawal symptoms. Adverse reactions tend to be dosage-related: The higher the dose, the worse the reaction.
  • These drugs are vastly more powerful than they need to be; often reinstatement at half dosage AT MOST is sufficient and many people do well with a lot less. You want to be taking only the lowest dose EFFECTIVE to reduce withdrawal symptoms.
  • Your receptors may have adjusted somewhat (upregulated) during the time you were tapering or had withdrawal symptoms.
  • If you can stabilize on a lower dose, you have less to taper when you finally do go off.
  • You can always adjust the dosage upward if you find you need to. After reinstatement, most drugs take about a week to reach full effect. Wait until you see the full effect before you make an increase -- and then make only very gradual increases.

 

 

====================================================

 

 

3 hours ago, DavidfromTexas said:

I’m thinking I may have to work my way up to around 5 mg or something, who knows...I may need to get closer to where I was at my last full dose at 20 mg. 

I have started taking the 8 beads now as opposed to 6. How should I up-dose? One week per new additional dose? I’m thinking maybe adding 2 beads a week?

 

Slowly.  1 bead at a time.  And I would be giving it 2 weeks.

 

27 minutes ago, DavidfromTexas said:

Im only thinking that making a large jump in dosage could be a possibility for me because I’ve already done it without complications (at least physically) twice before.

 

These drugs are strong.  More is not better, especially once your CNS has been sensitised by stopping your drug too quickly.  The effect of being on, off, changing is cumulative.  Just because it didn't affect you before doesn't mean that it won't this time.

 

3 hours ago, DavidfromTexas said:

Both Zoloft and Prozac can be compounded much easier than Cymbalta, right?

 

Only you can make the decision about whether to change drugs.  However, both Zoloft and Prozac can be made into liquid yourself.

 

The Prozac switch or "bridging" with Prozac

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

@ChessieCat

 

Ok, I won’t do the big jump. 

 

I have, however, already made the jump up from 6 beads to 8, and I have been there for 2 days already so should I just continue on that for a couple weeks before I move up any more? Or should I go back down 1 bead (to 7 beads) starting tonight and stay THERE for 2 weeks??

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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ChessieCat

Slow and steady.  Give the 8 beads 2 weeks and then assess.

 

Keep daily notes on paper.  Because it can be so subtle you might be able to see improvement from your logs that you don't notice without them.  You might find rating your symptoms helpful to give you some comparison.  When we aren't feeling as well as we would like to be we can miss the improvements because we are comparing how we are feeling now with how we felt at our best, not how we were feeling at our worst.  Any improvement is a good sign.

 

And remember, reinstatement/updosing isn't to get rid of symptoms completely.  It's to bring things to a bearable level.

 

And be prepared that it may take several months once things are bearable before you start tapering.

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Dejavu

David, please don't make any big changes. I strongly second everything Chessie has advised above.

 

I am the poster child for what not to do. I fast tapered 50mg of zoloft in about 3.5 weeks. When withdrawal hit a month later, I panicked and reinstated 25mg (much too high, as I now know). Then I fooled around with my dosage - up and down several times - trying to find the "right" dose that would make me feel better. All it did was destabilize me further. I couldn't work for 4 months, and was housebound, if not completely bedridden, during that time. I was terrified, and my family was terrified for me. I didn't even BEGIN to see improvement until about 3 months after I decided to sit still on one dose, for better or worse. And I'm still not fully stable, although I'm getting there. All because I was impatient and kindled the heck out of myself. Do not do what I did. I cannot stress this enough. I put myself in a world of hurt that could have been avoided. There is no reason for you to do this to yourself. You have been warned. 😎

 

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Altostrata

David, I'm really confused about why you make things so complicated for yourself. There are many, many people tapering Cymbalta successfully by counting beads, or having the beads weighed and put into custom dose gelatin capsules by a pharmacist.

 

Not sure what you're up to with your dosage changes, either. It appears you're improving with what you're taking. What is it you want to accomplish with dosage changes?

 

 

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

Ok sounds good. To answer all of your questions...

I won’t make any big, fast changes. I felt like maybe I have seen the tiniest, tiniest improvement in the emotional edginess I was feeling before I reinstated, but over the last week it moved backwards a little, though it still wasn’t as bad as it was before. This made me feel that maybe the main reason I started feeling better in the first place was actually because the shock of this discovery had worn off a little and I wasn’t reading as much about it, and thus I focused on it less. 

 

I can say with confidence that the height of my emotional edginess came immediately when I first discovered all the information on this site and that withdrawal might have something to do with what I’ve been feeling. Of course I was certainly already very emotionally on edge from the finality of losing my love, and then the discovery of all this new information a couple weeks ago just doubled it. 

 

But every time something new comes up that is a potential complication or seems important, like the choice of the correct capsule for my prescription, I start to focus A LOT on that and how the wrong choice might affect me. That’s why I am thinking I might end up needing to make the journey up to a bit larger of a dose than I’m on now, because maybe after getting a bit higher in dosage these obsessions won’t be there anymore. I guess I just have to make a choice and see what happens?

 

The new details I found out about on cymbaltawithdrawal.com are that apparently the kind of capsule needed (enteric or regular gelatin) can differ from manufacturer to manufacturer, generic AND brand name. This seems like an important detail, since none of us cymbalta users seem to have drugs from the same manufacturers (or at least not mine anyway), and so I just wanted to find out as much info as possible for my specific situation before diving in with a regular regimen/process of dividing and re-packaging the drug. 

 

So, that is what the latest worry/obsession has been, finding out which capsule mine calls for, because the last things I want is for

a) the beads to cause a toxic reaction in my stomach and make me really sick like had happened to other people, or the opposite—

 b) have an enteric-coated capsule make it too far down my intestines and affect my body’s absorption of the drug. 

 

On cymbaltawithdrawal.com, after some debate, some of the veteran members have said it’s best to go with an enteric capsule just in case, though they said either kind would probably work fine. So I guess I just bite the bullet and try. I’ve always been bad at things like that. When I’ve struggled most, I’ve always needed re-assurance. Like somebody mentioned to me a couple weeks ago on this forum. I gotta just do it. 

 

SO. My plan at the moment is to stay on the 8 beads I just jumped to (last day on 6 was 2 days ago), and see how it’s feeling after a couple weeks, then assess the next step from there. Does that sound right? Any risk of kindling from just this 2 bead (1/3 mg) jump?

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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DavidfromTexas

THURSDAY AUG 8 (day 15)

 

10:30am Woke up. 

11:30am Ate cereal and a banana

1:00pm Therapy session. Got very emotional talking about all my issues like in my previous sessions. 

3:00pm Agency meeting

4:00pm Ate some chick-fil-a for a very late lunch/early supper

6:45pm Went and played some pickup soccer with roommates and friend. Trying to get back into playing post-foot injury. Ended up making my back sore afterwards. Been having back discomfort/pain (mainly at work though) for the last 2-3 weeks. 

10:30pm Ate late dinner. Pre-packaged salmon and vegetables. Oven cooked. 

11:30pm Watching movie, eating snacks (flavored/seasoned almonds, watermelon)

1:00am Took 8 bead (1.33mg) duloxetine. Is it bad to take your medicine with a carbonated drink? Carbonated water?

1:15am Started having lower abdominal discomfort that came on quick, nothing horrible though, felt like gas. And indeed there was some, quickly followed by a very non-solid bowel movement. (Sorry). I hadn’t gone today yet so maybe that’s why. 

1:45am Orrr maybe not. My bowels aren’t done flushing (pun) something out. It’s been approximately 3 hours since I had that salmon/vegetables for dinner, so I wouldn’t think it would’ve made it all the way through yet. There are also now a couple very slight “pinch-like” pains that have happened in my lower front abdominal area as well. And I mean very slight. I assume it’s all a part of whats getting flushed out. 

2:20am Took a dose of Pepto Bismol tablets to hopefully help with the upset system. 

3:30am Still awake. I’m tired but I don’t wanna lie down in case it upsets my stomach more. Been getting slight sharp pains in my abdomen every now and then. Very short and quick pinches, mainly in the very low abdominal area toward either side

4:00am Finally lying down to go to sleep. 

 

Im not sure if this was due to the drugs or perhaps just something I ate (although I didn’t eat anything out of the ordinary for me). Had cereal and a banana in the morning, some chick-fil-a for a really late lunch, and then a pre-packaged salmon and vegetable oven-cooked meal for dinner around 10:30. I did have a sweet tea with my late lunch, which would have some amount of caffeine in it, and then I drank a packet of crystal light with my water at dinner that ALSO had apparently about 60 mg of caffeine in it. Dunno if this would produce any kind of effect like this. I’ve been trying not to drink as much caffeine lately as I used to. 

 

Interesting fact...I believe that the medicine USED to contribute to me not being regular (I guess some degree of constant constipation). I have ALWAYS been irregular my whole life, or for at least as long as I can remember, not sure about when I was a really little kid. I always just thought I got it from my Mom, as she has always had the same issues, in her adult life at least. So I never thought about the meds causing my irregularity until this last year and a half when I noticed a difference. 

 

Anyway, it could be a combination of things like drinking more water as well, but each time I came off of the medicine and/or when I was reducing, my bowel movements became more regular, going at least once a day, even if they were not always the most solid. 

 

If this were to continue in the next couple days, is this something I should drop down a bead (to 7) for? Or should I just ride it until something else possibly happens to start affecting me too?

 

I have ALSO just taken my last probiotic pill today from the probiotics I had been taking since before my cyst procedure. Is probiotics something I should look into continuing? I have been considering starting an immune supporting probiotic, just as long as there’s no danger of them interacting with the duloxetine, since they both have actions in the gut...

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

@ChessieCat @Dejavu @Altostrata

 

I am feeling more on edge today after waking up, and I’m not sure what to think...if it’s possibly from the up-dose in medicine or if it’s just from me being worried that the up-dose is doing more damage and is going to be giving me some kind of adverse reactions after last night’s slight stomach issues. 

 

Not sure whether to stay on the 8 beads or drop down by 1 bead, or even 2 back to where I was. 

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

Guys, I am starting to freak out. 

 

As I was searching for reviews on some of the LA-based doctors that are listed in that thread on this site, I came across the info on here about Dr Shipko. I was thinking about calling him and setting up an appointment since he is here in LA, but his views on the outlook of things for patients going through struggles when getting off drugs is so bleak. Should I try to make an appointment with him? I’m so scared of what he might tell me, that I’ll never recover. 

 

If that is the case, I just want to be back on the meds where I was content and symptom-free! I’M SO SCARED! I am more scared now than I have been at any point so far in this process. 

 

Should I go back down in dose???

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

I was able to make a consultation appt with Dr Shipko. Do you guys think this is a good idea?

 

At this point in time, I just want to be able to be happy in my life, and now Im afraid that my mistakes with messing around with the medicine have ruined my life forever and that I’ll never be able to be happy again. 

 

I would much rather be on the medicine for the rest of my life and be happy than the alternative. 

 

@ChessieCat Do you guys still think I should keep with the new 8 beads dose?

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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ChessieCat
Posted (edited)

Please carefully read the information below by Altostrata:

 

 

On 6/28/2014 at 10:00 AM, Altostrata said:

I'm going to post this here so everyone can see it.
 
Our basic rules of succeeding with tapering off psychiatric drugs or recovering from withdrawal syndrome are the rules of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.
 
1. Keep it simple.
 
When the body reacts, often it's difficult to tell what the cause might be. When you're tapering or trying supplements or other treatments, keeping it simple helps reduce confusion during trial-and-error. Keeping it simple minimize confounding factors. For example:
 
1.a. Do not CHANGE the dosage of more than one drug or supplement at a time.
When you change 2 or more drugs at once and you get a bad reaction, you won't know which drug is causing it.
 
1.b. Do not ADD more than one drug or supplement at a time.
When you add more than one thing at a time -- or, worse, throw the kitchen sink into some kind of cocktail -- and you get a bad reaction, you won't have any idea what to do. Should you drop one thing or all of them?
 
This is also true of mixed supplements, supplements that contain more than one ingredient. It's better to try one ingredient at a time to see how you react.
 
2. Keep it slow.
 
Many people become very sensitive to drugs and supplements after they've experienced withdrawal symptoms for even a short time. Do not count on taking the big risks you used to take. Make changes slowly.
 
Introducing a drug or supplement or changing a dosage very gradually gives you the ability to sample how it might affect you before you go too far.
 
A big dose or big change probably will cause a worse bad reaction than a very small dose or change. You can injure your nervous system pretty badly with a big change -- it might take you months or years to feel better.
 
For example:
 
2.a. If you are tapering, we recommend a 10% reduction every month, based on the LAST dosage. (The amount of the reduction keeps getting smaller. Read this explanation: Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
 
2.b. Do not expect to feel better immediately. There are no silver bullets for withdrawal syndrome. There is no pill of any kind that will immediately put you back to normal. If you make a good change, the effect is likely to be slight at first. Be patient. Read this: What is withdrawal syndrome?
 
2.c. Do not jump around in dosage. For most drugs, it takes about 4 days for the change to fully register in your system. Unless you have an IMMEDIATE bad reaction, wait at least 4-7 days to see how the change affects you. (If you have an immediate bad reaction, go back to the dosage you were taking before.)  See steady state graph for Cymbalta.
 
Since withdrawal symptoms ordinarily fluctuate, you might have hours or days here and there when you don't feel well. One episode does not a pattern make. Do not panic and throw in another drug or supplement. Keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern. If you feel worse and worse over a week, the change was not a good one. It may be the decrease or increase was too large. Rather than jumping around in dosage, make an adjustment half-way.
 
2.d. Be patient, recovery is inconsistent and gradual. The nervous system is very complicated. It can repair itself, but it takes time to do this. In the meantime, you may experience The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery
 
3. Keep it stable.
 
The nervous system is delicate and very complicated. Normally, the autonomic system runs your body with numerous checks and balances, constantly gauging what hormones and transmitters need to be increased and which need to be decreased. Its job is to keep your body stable, at a tolerable temperature range, with everything running smoothly.
 
Psychiatric drugs interfere with the entire nervous system, not just the brain. This is why changing dosage of just one drug can affect your eyesight, your digestion, and your sleep. Taking psychiatric drugs affects the functions of the nervous system.
 
The nervous system, which works so hard to keep your body running smoothly, thrives on stability. When you take a psychiatric drug over a period of time (usually a month or more), your body becomes dependent on the drug. This is called physiological dependency.
 
The nervous system adapts itself to the drug like a plant growing on a trellis. If you tear the trellis away, the plant will be damaged. You need to remove the trellis gradually and allow the plant to retrain itself to its natural growth pattern.
 
Thus, the nervous system does best in a stable environment. Help your nervous system adapt to life without drugs by maintaining as much stability as you can. This is the way you can take care of yourself and help your nervous system to recover. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to stressing our nervous systems! Examples:
 
3.a. Do not suddenly quit taking your drugs. Do not skip doses to taper. These big, fast changes are the opposite of providing stability for your nervous system. Skipping doses causes the amount of the drug in your bloodstream to go up and down. Do not do this for any psychiatric drug.  See this graph which compares skipping days vs daily dosing.

 

3.b. Avoid binges. Even if you had no problems with them before, avoid overindulgence in alcohol, food, partying, sugar, staying up late, even exercise. All of these put the body and the nervous system under stress.
 
3.c. Manage emotional stress. Yes, that abusive relationship can be keeping you from recovering from withdrawal syndrome. You may wish to reduce contact with any people who tend to upset you. If you are an argumentative person, you may wish to minimize your confrontations.
 
3.d. Direct your time and efforts to pastimes that are calming or pleasurable. Calm is good for the nervous system. Always make time for a pleasant walk of at least a half-hour every day. Many people find a place for meditation in their lives because it makes them feel better. Spending time with pets or in nature ("forest bathing") can also be soothing. See our Symptoms and Self-Care forum for more suggestions.
 
3.e. Keep your daily circadian rhythm steady. Your body runs on a daily pattern governed by sunrise and sunset -- the circadian rhythm. Our bodies do best when we wake in the morning, go to sleep at night, and eat at about the same times every day. You may wish to reduce artificial light at night. Do what you can to maintain a regular daily schedule, this helps your nervous system function. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems.

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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ChessieCat
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DavidfromTexas said:

I was able to make a consultation appt with Dr Shipko. Do you guys think this is a good idea?

 

I am going to be honest and blunt.  You are panicking.

 

My personal opinion is that I think you seeing Dr Shipko is absolutely unnecessary

 

You have noticed some improvement.  It is going to take time.  Please carefully read this post:  Stability  It was written by BrassMonkey who has successfully got off Paxil, now 1+ years off.  He has been with SA since its inception and was on a previous site (PaxilProgress, now defunct) and the knowledge in his posts has been gleaned from many years of his observation of people on both sites.

 

SA was started back in 2011 and there are many members who have managed/are managing to successfully taper using this site's information, which includes me.  Alto has spoken to many medical professionals over the years (and continues to do so) and has done much research.  I'm sure I read somewhere that she has a background in scientific research.

 

You have been provided with great amount of relevant information since you started your introduction topic.  I think it would be a good idea for you to go back and read your own introduction topic from the beginning.  Your own posts, the responses and the links provided.

 

 

On 8/20/2017 at 10:43 AM, Shep said:

And once again, he is advocating the use of benzos for people to use to come off SSRIs.

 

A post about Dr Shipko by our benzo moderator Shep. Note the date is only 2 years ago.  Please read the full post by clicking on the arrow top right of the quote box.   This is exactly what I stated in one of my previous posts.  DaveB is a good example of a member who kept chopping and changing his drugs and ended up in an even worse situation because he wasn't patient, panicked and couldn't wait things out.  He received a great amount of support, suggestions and encouragement from both moderators and members.  He ended up on a benzo and the last we heard was that he was not doing well.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 8:33 AM, ChessieCat said:

There is also the possibility that if you updose too high and things get worse you will end up on more drugs, because the doctor will try to counteract the problem.  We have seen this happen to members here.

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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ChessieCat
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DavidfromTexas said:

At this point in time, I just want to be able to be happy in my life, and now Im afraid that my mistakes with messing around with the medicine have ruined my life forever and that I’ll never be able to be happy again. 

 

And again, to be honest and blunt, I know you are not feeling how you want to feel at this time but believe me when I say that things could be much, much worse.

 

I've been an SA mod for 3.5 years and have read the experiences of many members here.

 

I'm assuming that you are still able to work, even though it may be a bit harder than it had been.  That in itself is a positive thing.

 

And of course that would involve being able to wash and clothe yourself, as well as being able to get to your place of employment.

 

I'm assuming that you are still getting a reasonable amount of sleep.  That also is a positive thing.

 

And I'm sure there are many other things that you still have the ability to do, even though it might take more effort than it did before your recent experience.

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

You’re right. I am panicking. 

 

Right now my anxiety about the unknowns is hitting its highest point. The fear has been taking over...I’m even at the point where I’m starting to fear getting to certain  points in the future—points like not wanting to suffer anymore, and losing all hope which is very dangerous. Since I am actively afraid of getting to that point I assume that it is just a part of me obsessing over all the what-ifs based on the information out there and worst case scenarios. 

 

I have a prescription for clonazepam/klonopin that the NP gave me just in case I needed it while weaning off in April/May. 

Should I avoid taking a tiny bit of that?

At what point of panic do you decide to rake something like that if it’s necessary to help you calm down?

 

At what point after up-dosing by a couple beads should one go back down to the point they came from?

 

I am very anxious about every little thought that I have now and am hoping this is not some kind of psychotic break. 

 

Are naps a good idea? 

 

Thank you SO MUCH for helping me through this. I am not going to read the things you sent about Dr Shipko right now, I just wanted to make an appt with some kind of Dr that seems to be more in the know about these issues than the psychiatrists I’ve been seeing. Those are the ones that were suggesting to go back into slightly larger doses than what you guys were suggesting. 

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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ChessieCat
8 minutes ago, DavidfromTexas said:

I have a prescription for clonazepam/klonopin that the NP gave me just in case I needed it while weaning off in April/May. 

Should I avoid taking a tiny bit of that?

At what point of panic do you decide to rake something like that if it’s necessary to help you calm down? 

 

Personally I don't think that's a rabbit hole that I would even go down.  If it was me, from what I've learned on SA, I'd be throwing the script and/or tablets of klonopin out.  If you have them there you will most like end up taking them instead of learning and using non drug techniques to get you through the discomfort.

 

I have previously posted a lot of links to helpful non drug things.  I have also suggested that you go back through your topic.  The mods provide the links to information which is we know can be helpful for members.  I suggest you go back and find it and check out the links in that post.

 

10 minutes ago, DavidfromTexas said:

I am not going to read the things you sent about Dr Shipko right now, I just wanted to make an appt with some kind of Dr that seems to be more in the know about these issues than the psychiatrists I’ve been seeing.

 

And Alto and many of the mods here know as much or even more about psychiatric drugs than many/most medical professionals.

 

I suggest you do read the link I sent.  I sent it for a good reason.  We need to be able to make informed decisions.

 

16 minutes ago, DavidfromTexas said:

At what point after up-dosing by a couple beads should one go back down to the point they came from?

 

I've already answered this question.  The mods, who are volunteers, get worn out when members ask questions which have already been responded to.  When a mod gets worn out it means that they have to take time off from assisting members to look after themselves.  We are going through our own tapering/withdrawal windows and waves.

 

18 minutes ago, DavidfromTexas said:

Right now my anxiety about the unknowns is hitting its highest point. The fear has been taking over...I’m even at the point where I’m starting to fear getting to certain  points in the future—points like not wanting to suffer anymore, and losing all hope which is very dangerous. Since I am actively afraid of getting to that point I assume that it is just a part of me obsessing over all the what-ifs based on the information out there and worst case scenarios. 

 

During times like this we have to learn to take it day by day, hour by hour or moment by moment if needed.

 

I have previously posted a lot of links to helpful non drug things.

 

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

Ok, I understand. Im really sorry, everybody. 

 

I am wondering what the best approach to finding a new psychiatrist would be then?

 

Or would you suggest just staying with the one I’ve been with for years? Even though we’ve never dealt with any real issues together, and I’m not sure she knows as much about this whole process as any of us would like in a psychiatrist. 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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ChessieCat

It depends on why are you going to the psychiatrist.  You can get scripts from any doctor.  You don't need to see a psychiatrist.

 

If you are seeing a psychiatrist for specific issues (not related to tapering) it would be better to find a person, whether counsellor, psychologist, psychiatrist, who is able to help you with what issue you are seeing them for and someone who you feel is helping you learn whatever it is that you need to learn.

 

You don't need a doctor or other medical professional to be supportive of what you are doing, even though that would be nice.  Not many medical professionals understand tapering and withdrawal from psychiatric drugs which is why this site exists.  All you need is a doctor who will prescribe what you need.  Any doctor can prescribe.

 

If you need to get something specific from a doctor for your tapering then before you see your doctor, you might find it helpful to write a script and rehearse what you are going to say so that you can get what you need to taper.  Be calm, gentle but assertive.  You are the customer, it is your body.  Use words like I'd like to try this, or I'd prefer to do it this way.  If a suggestion is made that you don't want to follow, say I'd like to think about it before making a decision.

 

SA prefers lowest effective dose, you could always say that you have decided that want to go back/stay on the drug and allow them to decide on the dose.  You can then take a small dose that what they suggest.

 

I suggest you also check out this topic:

 

how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect

 

 

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DavidfromTexas

So if you don’t see a psychiatrist for support on either tapering or up-dosing, how do we really know if either is safe any kind of safe?

 

I know a lot of them don’t know enough about withdrawal, but aren’t they supposed to be our best bet when it comes to guidance on how to proceed with our medication? 

 

And what if somebody decides the best decision for them is just to stay on the medication? Are we just supposed to up-dose slowly over a long period of time until we get to the desired location? Would continued up-dosing every couple weeks or so not be causing damage too??

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)
On 8/8/2019 at 6:45 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

 

And remember, reinstatement/updosing isn't to get rid of symptoms completely.  It's to bring things to a bearable level.

 

 

I know there is information on this site about updosing procedure (like in Alto’s first post in the 3KIS thread) but I couldn’t find a thread specifically about updosing. 

 

With updosing, is the gradual bead-by-bead INCREASE every 2-4 weeks considered comparable in safety to when DECREASING every few weeks bead-by-bead? 

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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ChessieCat

 

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ChessieCat

 

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Dejavu
Posted (edited)

David, you're really overthinking everything. Please do your CNS a favor and try to calm down. Meditation, deep breathing, epsom salts baths, CBT, acupuncture, soft music - something. You're going to drive yourself crazy otherwise. 

 

1 hour ago, DavidfromTexas said:

I know a lot of them don’t know enough about withdrawal, but aren’t they supposed to be our best bet when it comes to guidance on how to proceed with our medication

Not in my experience. These "experts" have harmed me far more than they've helped me. That is the experience of most members here.

 

My doctor believes I'm doing great on 37.5 mgs of zoloft. In reality I'm currently on 26.25 and planning to taper soon. Since she believes there's nothing wrong with staying on ADs for life, she's all too happy to write the script each month. That's all I need her for. Everything else I need to know about getting off this rat poison is right here on this site. So far, every scrap of medical advice I've followed has been fraught with painful repercussions. It was only when I started following the advice here that I began to get better. So, no, I personally have no use for the practice of psychiatric medicine. Your mileage may vary. Maybe.

 

1 hour ago, DavidfromTexas said:

And what if somebody decides the best decision for them is just to stay on the medication?

You're really putting the cart before the horse here. You're not there yet. Achieving stability is Job One at the moment, irrespective of whether you ultimately decide to stay on your drug or not. 

 

It seems you want a blueprint of exactly what this experience will be like for you. It is impossible for anyone to tell you that. Everyone's recovery is different. When wobbles occur or decisions need to be made along the way, we can help with those things. But you are at the beginning of your journey right now, and no one can tell you how events are going to unfold down the road. The only assurances we can give are the ones we've already given you:

 

1. Like everyone else in this forum, you are suffering from antidepressant withdrawal, and it stinks;

2. There doesn't seem to be anything unusual or rare about your case, therefore;

3. If you stay slow, stable and steady (and not overthink and panic) you will recover;

4. That recovery will take longer than you want it to - it will take as long as it takes; and most important:

5. You must practice non-drug coping techniques in order to self-soothe and interrupt the constant ruminating that you're engaging in. It is damaging to your already sensitized nervous system and will delay your recovery. You're throwing gasoline on the fire each time you obsess about your situation. You must be exhausted. I know it's difficult to think of much else when you're in the thick of it, but you need to start practicing how to let go, accept that your present state is not ideal (but it IS temporary), and trust the process. 

Edited by Dejavu

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DavidfromTexas

Thank you for the responses, guys. 

 

I believe Im starting to experience some more physical symptoms, which is another stage in this process that I was hoping to avoid happening by reinstating as early as I did. 

 

Im not sure if the light diarrhea I had last night was due to withdrawal/updosing or if it was due to something I ate. 

 

As we type this, I have just had the 2nd instance of ear-ringing in the span of 15 minutes. Each time it has gone away within a minute, but it started each time with what I might describe as a “whoosh” feeling from one side of my head to the other and then my right ear stared ringing. Can ear-ringing be a side effect caused by updosing?? Or is it usually only associated with withdrawal symptoms? 

 

I guess I’m just getting more scared as I’m running into additional symptoms that I thought I made have been able to prevent by reinstating in time. Maybe I did it too late, or maybe I started too low. But I guess I don’t have a choice but to accept them as they come, as scary as that will be, because I don’t want to make any drastic changes and make things worse. 

 

And now new things are starting to pop up, as well as me getting more anxious and obsessive and fearful...and it seems that all of these things including the extra anxiety and fear could be the onset of worsening withdrawal symptoms. And it’s scary to not know what else is going to start happening or how much worse these symptoms are going to get. 

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ChessieCat
4 minutes ago, DavidfromTexas said:

But I guess I don’t have a choice but to accept them as they come, as scary as that will be, because I don’t want to make any drastic changes and make things worse. 

 

You are starting to get it.

 

neuro-emotions

 

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DavidfromTexas

I know people have said they fully recovered, but I’ve also seen some people that say their tinnitus never went away!

 

Any thoughts on whether tinnitus can be a side effect of taking/up-dosing the meds, or is it only a symptom of withdrawal?

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ChessieCat

You've just found something else to worry about.

 

Go and try out some of the non drug techniques and let us know which ones you think you might find helpful.

 

To get through this you are going to have to learn and use coping techniques.  Nobody can do it for you.

 

On 8/22/2016 at 12:13 PM, scallywag said:

Withdrawal symptoms
 
Symptoms of withdrawal are unpredictable; no one can tell who will get symptoms, which ones will occur, how long they will last, or how intense they will be. Some people report the experience of symptoms as uncomfortable, distressing and/or painful.
 
What symptoms are possible? Why are they unpredictable?
 
Because psychiatric drugs affect your nervous system -- the "operating system" of your body -- withdrawal symptoms can show up almost anywhere. They can be problems in

- Perception (vision, smell, hearing, etc.)
- Cognition (confusion, inability to concentrate, disorientation, depersonalization, etc.)
- Unusual and powerful emotions (melancholia, weeping, fear, anxiety, neuro-emotions, etc.)
- Physical pain (headache, migraine, tingling, muscle aches, skin burning, etc.)
- Digestive issues (diarrhea, gastroparesis, etc.)
- Sleep issues (most commonly insomnia and poor sleep)
- "Brain zaps" (a sensation of tiny, sharp electrical surges in the brain)
- Hypersensitivity to medications, supplements, or foods

 

 

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

I got you. You’re right. 

 

I feel like community, and being able to get out and be active and exercise will be best for me. My body hasn’t been in the best shape to do that these last couple years with injuries, etc. But I am going to start easing into that more. 

 

At this moment, I feel like my plan might be to just up-dose very slowly over a period of time until I am closer to where I used to be. Hopefully giving it a couple weeks at least on each new up-dose will give my brain a chance to adjust in the same way decreasing slowly does too. 

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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ChessieCat
5 minutes ago, DavidfromTexas said:

get out and be active and exercise will be best for me. My body hasn’t been in the best shape to do that these last couple years with injuries, etc. But I am going to start easing into that more. 

 

Just don't overdo it.  It might make you feel worse.

 

exercise-do-more-do-less-do-nothing-what-worked-for-you

 

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

Ok. I was thinking since I used to be very active and an athlete my whole life, I might be able to work up to a point of going for a run every day or something. Maybe being able to get back into playing soccer. 

 

From what I read earlier today about conversations with Dr Shipko, etc., I am worried that my body will no longer accept anti-depressants even if I wanted to get back up to a solid comfortable dose eventually. What do you guys think about that? Is getting off of the meds really the only possible option at the end?

I thought that maybe once my system has had a chance to heal some, it would be more and more accepting to the drugs like it used to be. 

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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ShiningLight
8 hours ago, Dejavu said:

 

My doctor believes I'm doing great on 37.5 mgs of zoloft. In reality I'm currently on 26.25 and planning to taper soon. Since she believes there's nothing wrong with staying on ADs for life, she's all too happy to write the script each month. That's all I need her for. Everything else I need to know about getting off this rat poison is right here on this site.

 

Rat poison!!! 😂 Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today.

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Dejavu
10 hours ago, DavidfromTexas said:

From what I read earlier today about conversations with Dr Shipko, etc., I am worried that my body will no longer accept anti-depressants even if I wanted to get back up to a solid comfortable dose eventually. What do you guys think about that? Is getting off of the meds really the only possible option at the end?

 

10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

You've just found something else to worry about.

 

11 hours ago, Dejavu said:

You're really putting the cart before the horse here. You're not there yet. Achieving stability is Job One at the moment, irrespective of whether you ultimately decide to stay on your drug or not. 

 

It seems you want a blueprint of exactly what this experience will be like for you. It is impossible for anyone to tell you that. Everyone's recovery is different. When wobbles occur or decisions need to be made along the way, we can help with those things. But you are at the beginning of your journey right now, and no one can tell you how events are going to unfold down the road. The only assurances we can give are the ones we've already given you:

Remember these? I don't know how else to tell you that you're doing more harm to yourself by engaging in "what ifs?" and casting around for new things to worry about. You must get this anxiety under control. Your life will be immensely easier when you do. Have you even read the links Chessie has sent you about non-drug coping techniques? It doesn't seem as though you have. I would highly recommend you also seek a therapist who practices CBT or DBT in your area. Also, neurofeedback or biofeedback might help. I did 12 sessions of biofeedback and I feel it helped me immensely. 

 

Please read those links. Chessie sent them to you for a very good reason. 

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

Hi, @Dejavu. I have read them, and whenever I can afford them I will begin. I have had to use a lot of money recently on appointments and therapy not covered by my insurance. 

 

What is neurofeedback and biofeedback? I’m looking them up but would like your take on them

Edited by DavidfromTexas

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Dejavu

Dave, if you did read the link on non-drug coping skills, then you have apparently forgotten that many of the strategies are free. For instance, there are guided meditations on You Tube for anxiety, depression, stress, sleep, positive thinking - all manner of things. Also videos on deep breathing can help as well, videos on EFT and a free online course in CBT. Please reread this link.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

If you believe acquiring these skills is not important right now, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

Biofeedback is a type of therapy that measures and teaches you how to control  bodily functions. Neurofeedback is a subscience of biofeedback aimed specifically at the brain. Do some research on both for more information. Wikipedia is a good place to start. There is also a link on this site. Please do a search here.

 

I would like to see you take a proactive approach to your recovery by adopting some of these strategies. Dealing with anxiety and panic is an absolute necessity for living a drug-free life. It is time for you to put such a plan in place for yourself now. It may sound impossible at the moment, but it is doable. And it doesn't happen overnight. It takes lots and lots of practice, so it's best to get started now.ĺ

 

You mentioned at the beginning of your thread that you were seeing a therapist each week. Are you still doing so?

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DavidfromTexas

Also...I am considering going back home, at least for a temporary amount of time, to have a support system that is there for me. Among all the things like my employment here that I would have to make arrangements for, I will also need to switch my generic manufacturer.

 

Here in LA, I unwittingly have probably switched between different manufacturers a bit in the years I've been out here, but I never seemed to have any issue with it. BUT now that I am probably more sensitive to these things I will want to do the bridging between generic brands just to take the best, most cautious approach.

 

Here I have lately been going to the Rite Aid pharmacy for the meds since it is closest to me. But there are no Rite Aids back home. There are a lot of CVS Pharmacies though. I have checked with several CVS Pharmacies in LA and back homes and they all use Torrent Pharmaceuticals. I have also checked with them to see if they use Rising Pharmaceuticals (what I'm on now), and they do NOT. So I am thinking, once I have decided for sure that I am going back home for an indefinite period of time, I will then get my first prescription from CVS and I will do the switch between the two over the recommended period of time.

 

I would be switching from Rising Pharmaceuticals to Torrent pharmaceuticals.

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